The Beginner's Guide to Advanced MFB Custom Construction - Tip Height Article Posted!

The Beginner's Guide
To Advanced MFB Custom Construction

Most Recent Update

8/2/12: Tip Height article posted!
Link: Tip Heights

Overview

Welcome to the Beginner's Guide to Advanced MFB Custom Construction! In this thread, I am going to be uploading several articles about more advanced topics in Beyblade construction for the BB-10 metagame. All these articles are drafts, and I'm posting them in the Advanced forum to get them peer-reviewed to make sure they are fully correct so that I'm not spreading false information to other members. As such, please nitpick and question everything I write! I want to make these the best articles they can be, so I'm open to all critique.

If there is anything that somebody points out as potentially not being correct, I'll add "**" to the front of the title name and a spoiler explaining a given user's concerns. If something is shown to be outright wrong, I'll remove it entirely.

These articles are all quite long, and as such it takes me awhile to write them. However, I do have several that I've started working on already that I will post once they're a bit more complete. I'll update the OP of the thread with a link to any new article I write, and I'll change the title of this thread to reflect the most recent articles added.

I hope you enjoy these articles, and I'm looking forward to critique!

Table of Contents
  1. Weight Distribution
  2. Life After Death
  3. Tip Heights
Upcoming Articles
  • Center of Gravity
  • Weak Launching
  • Tip Height
  • The Science of Scraping
  • Movement Patterns
  • Wheel Diameter




A Primer on Weight Distribution in Metal Fight Beyblade

Today we're going to talk a little bit about weight distribution and we're going to see some effects it has on a Beyblade. While I am a physics minor, I'm not going to go into great detail about the science behind all this where I can avoid it; rather, I'm going to post my observations in Beyblade with as many examples as I can provide, as I feel it would be easier to understand.

I will only be discussing the MFB generation of beys, as I do not know enough about the earlier generations to do them justice in this article.

We're going to talk about three kinds of weight distribution:
1) Outward Weight Distribution
2) Inner Weight Distribution
3) Even Weight Distribution

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Weight Distribution vs. Center of Gravity

Before I discuss the specific types of weight distribution, I need to define what it is and how it is different from center of gravity (a topic for another post):

Weight distribution is how much weight is focused on a radial axis from the center of the Beyblade. That is to say, say you were looking at the top of a Beyblade and you drew concentric circles emanating from the face bolt. You might have one circle that is the size of the face bolt, one that is the size of the clear wheel, and one that surrounds the outside of the Beyblade. If you looked at how much weight is focused around the outside of each of these circles, you would find out about the bey's weight distribution. A Beyblade with centered weight distribution would have the majority of its weight focused around the face bolt, whereas a bey with outward weight distribution would focus as much weight as possible around the perimeter of the bey. A bey with even weight distribution has no real focus of where the weight is; in other words, it has roughly the same amount of weight concentrated in the center as along the middle and outside of the bey.

The center of gravity is the point in the vertical axis where the weight is focused on the bey vertically. To think about this, imagine you were looking at the side of your bey and you drew an imaginary line from the center of the face bolt down to the center of the tip. Along this line is the center of gravity, whose position on the line is determined by how much weight you have at the top, middle, and bottom portions of the bey.

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Now that we have an idea of what weight distribution is, we're going to dive straight into the three different kinds of weight distribution, examples of each, and their uses.

Outward Weight Distribution

Outward weight distribution is the most commonly talked about type of weight distribution due to its importance for stamina-type beys. To have an outward weight distribution, a part has to focus as much of its weight as far from the center of rotation as possible. Here are some examples of parts that do that:
  • Regular Face Bolts/MF-F: By using these two types of bolts rather than other Metal Faces, you are putting as little weight in the center of the bey as possible, allowing the Beyblade to maximize the amount of weight focused outward. This is why stamina types and a few attack types use regular faces instead of Metal Faces (see the section on the Flywheel Effect below).
  • MF-L: While having any metal in the center of your bey (which, in MFB, is basically your face bolt) goes against the idea of an outward weight distribution, it is worth noting that a MF-L, which uses the metal plate and plastic core, certainly has more outwardly-distributed weight than MF-M, which uses the plastic plate and metal core. If you want an outward weight distribution and some extra weight, MF-L is one of the better choices.
  • Cancer/Gasher: These two clear wheels are widely known for how much weight they focus around the outside of the clear wheel as they do. This is what makes them so popular for Stamina types for reasons I'll explain below.
  • AD145: Because of this track's shape, more weight is focused farther from this piece's center than a normal 145 track. This trait has made AD145 a very popular stamina track.
  • Phantom: This metal wheel is one of the best examples of outwardly-faced weight distribution. Its PC core, which comprises the entire center of the wheel, is completely plastic, allowing all of the wheel's weight to be distributed along its outer metal frame.

So what does having an outer weight distribution do for a Beyblade? There are several things:

Flywheel Effect
First, and probably most importantly, Beyblades with a lot of weight around their outside experience what is known as the Flywheel Effect. This phenomenon is where the Beyblade actually keeps itself spinning due to its own angular momentum, which increases the bey’s stamina greatly (particularly at lower spin rates). This property is why it is recommended that stamina types focus so much weight around their outside, and why wheels like Phantom (and to a much lesser extent Burn) have such good stamina. This is also why stamina types don't use Metal Faces, as that would put more weight in the center of the bey and, thus, decrease the bey's ability to abuse the Flywheel Effect.

Of course, the Flywheel Effect isn't the only thing that makes a bey have good stamina, but it is a very important part of the puzzle that makes up most standard stamina customs.

Attack Movement Pattern
Attack type Beyblades often want to focus weight around the outside of the bey because beys with outer weight distribution move faster around the stadium than those with inner weight distribution. There are a few good examples of this:

First, many people used to debate whether or not attack types should use Metal Faces, as although they increased the attack type's overall mass, it slowed them down because of the extra weight in the center. Nowadays, however, it is almost mandatory for attack types to use Metal Faces just because defense types have gotten much heavier.

A second example of outward weight distribution on attackers is the use of GB145 (a track I'll talk about later) on Flash; while most people use tracks like S130 on Flash to give Flash a better chance against short foes, some use tracks other than GB145 because they find GB145 somewhat harder to control. Because GB145 focuses a lot of weight around the outside of the bey at high spin velocities, it makes Flash move very quickly and, sometimes, unpredictably.

From my experience, I have also noticed that attack types with their weight focused around the outside of the wheel are more likely to skip the tornado edge instead of catching it and stalling, which can be considered a good or bad thing depending on the custom. In the same vein, if an attack type begins to tornado stall, it seems like attackers with an outward weight distribution apper to be more likely to slip over the tornado ridge and stop tornado stalling, which again can be a good or bad thing.

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Centered Weight Distribution

* Aside *
It is worth mentioning now that centered weight distribution is much more important in the earlier generations of Beyblade. In fact, there is a bey custom type called "Compact" that specifically centers weight to perform well. Check out the article on Beywiki for more information:
http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Compact
This is just an aside, as like I said in the intro I'm only covering MFB.

The extreme opposite of outward weight distribution is centered weight distribution. Instead of focusing weight around the outside of the bey, to make a bey with centered weight distribution one needs to put as much weight as close to the center as possible. It is actually a bit more difficult to center weight in MFB compared to other generations of Beyblade because very few parts are designed for this. Because of this difficulty, instead of giving a few examples, I'm going to list the relatively few pieces that effectively accomplish creating a bey with centered weight:
  • MF/MF-H: These two parts are the most obvious (and most important) parts to use to create a centered weight distribution. As I mentioned earlier, the center of the bey in MFB is basically the face bolt. Thus, by using one of these two pieces, you're putting an extra 3-4 grams right in the middle of your Beyblade. Metal Faces of some fashion are basically mandatory for centered weight distribution.
  • MF-M: I'm still not sure what gives you a more centered weight distribution, MF/MF-H or MF-M. By just looking at a MF-M (plastic plate, metal core), it looks like it fits the bill for centered weight perfectly; however, like I've said a few times now, I am starting to think that the entire face bolt is the center of a Beyblade, so I personally think that it's better to use MF/MF-H to center weight. This is just my opinion, though; if you're looking to center weight on your bey, try MF, MF-H, and MF-M out to see what works best for you!
  • Pisces: This is my personal favorite clear wheel for centered weight distribution. While it may not be the best (I can't honestly tell for sure), I've been getting the best results with it by far. If you look at the shape, Pisces is very thin around the edges and then gets very thick at the center, which is a perfect shape for centering weight. Unfortunately it is somewhat light.
  • Other Clear Wheels: Here I'm going to list more clear wheels that have a weight distribution that is roughly centered. I have to give credit to Th!nk for many of these:
    *Giraffe
    *Lynx
    *Susanow
    *Uranus
  • Jade in Defense Mode: It was hard to find a wheel that specifically focuses a lot of weight around the center because most wheels do just the opposite. Jade, however, does fit the bill when in the right mode. In defense mode, the metal balls are brought closer to the center of the wheel, and the vast majority of the weight is already focused on the inner disk rather than the outside of the four wings. This gives Jade in Defense mode a very centered weight distribution.

So, how is centered weight a good thing? There are a few reasons:

Higher Maximum RPMs
If a Beyblade has centered weight distribution, it will maintain fast RPMs for longer at the start of a battle than one with outward weight distribution. Note that this is only at the start of the battle and, importantly, that the increase in the bey's speed does not (necessarily) equate to more stamina. This trait is important for certain customs that rely on the fast speeds to perform well, though there is currently no truly competitive custom in MFB that needs to take advantage of this fact (due more in part because there aren't many pieces for centering weight than any other reason).

Better Balance When Hit/On Tall Tracks
Beyblades that have centered weight distribution also have a somewhat higher degree of defense because it is more difficult to knock a centered bey off balance. However, most of the pieces in MFB that have centered weight distribution are also quite light, and thus this greater defense is lost in most combinations.

One of the more unique traits I have observed with centered vs. outward weight distribution is that tall beys (ones with tracks like TH170 and 230) that have centered weight distribution have an easier time regaining balance when knocked off-kilter when compared to tall, outwardly-distributed beys.

As an example, when Phantom Cancer 230D gets knocked off-balance, it will start leaning on D’s slopes and begin to move around the stadium (and lose stamina), and it has a difficult time picking itself back up. On the other hand, MF-H Jade Pieces 230D will, when knocked off balance, eventually go back to spinning on D's tip after scraping for a little bit thanks to the centered weight distribution. Again, this does not mean this custom has better stamina (far from it); it just means it keeps its balance more easily.

This trait, like the higher RPMs centered customs have, has yet to find a place in competitive customs thus far.

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Even Weight Distribution

Now we are down to the final type of weight distribution, and that is what I'm calling "even" distribution. Evenly distributed Beyblades have their weight spread out all over the bey, meaning they have a lot of weight on their outside, middle, and center. Typically this is considered to be a negative trait, as you don't get the stamina and attack patterns of outwardly distributed beys, nor do you get the high RPMs and overall balance of beys that distribute weight around their center. What is left is typically a poorly-balanced, low stamina Beyblade.

Here are some examples of metal wheels with even weight distribution:
  • Dark: Dark's weight is kind of all over the place, which is one of the many reasons why it is considered to be an outclassed wheel.
  • L-Drago Destroy/Guardian: Neither of these wheels is balanced well at all. Like Dark, they have weight all over the place instead of being focused either around the perimeter or center. If it wasn't for the fact that these wheels spin left, both wheels might have been overlooked.
  • Wing: If you look at the metal core by itself, it seems like the wheel has most of its weight focused around its outside; once you add the metal frame, however, you see that the ring on which the three wings are attached causes a lot of weight to be put closer to the middle of the wheel. What results is a relatively poorly balanced (yet very heavy and low-recoil) wheel.

Like I said before, evenly distributed wheels excel at almost nothing compared to their outward and center distributed brethren. That isn't to say an evenly distributed wheel is necessarily useless as long as the wheel has some other defining aspect that makes up for its lack of balance (like L-Drago Destroy/Guardian spinning left and Wing being heavy and having low recoil).

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I hope this will serve you well as an introduction to how weight distribution affects a Beyblade so that you can put the knowledge to work in your customs! This is the first of many articles I’ll be doing on what goes into making a MFB custom; hopefully I’ll have some more articles up about Center of Gravity and the properties of Clear Wheels soon! Until then!






Life After Death

When you are either using or are staring down a spin equalizer, one of the key factors towards whether you win or lose is how much "Life After Death" (LAD) your Beyblade has. In a battle, as long as your bey is still spinning, you're still in the fight; LAD is the ability for your Beyblade to perform complete rotations even after it has fallen over. As already stated, this comes into play the most in battles with spin equalizers, as those contests usually come down to a single rotation. It is also a desireable trait in general, as having good LAD can be the difference in whether you win or lose stamina battles and/or when your Beyblade gets destabilized. It is even a key component in how certain customs work, like when MF-M Duo Cygnus 230MB starts spinning at extreme angles and picks itself back up after Duo scrapes.

So, how do you add some LAD to your customs? There are several parts that you can use, the majority of which I'll cover here. If you want some extra LAD for your custom, try using some of these pieces and see if they work for you.

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Metal Wheels

There are some metal wheels that have natural LAD without any help from the rest of the custom they're found on. These wheels all have several traits in common which I'll go over here.

First, to have good LAD, a wheel needs to be completely circuclar. This is important because the weight distribution of the wheel needs to be even rather than two-sided or something similar. An easy way to think about why this is important is to think about those carnival games where you spin a wheel and it stops on a certain prize. You know how you can rig those games by putting extra weight on one side of the wheel, making it more likely the wheel will stop on a certain prize? This is the same principle for LAD: if the wheel isn't completely circular, the heaviest part of the wheel will naturally try to rest on the floor, whereas a circularly-distributed wheel will instead continue to roll around.

Second, in order for the wheel to actually roll, the metal wheel has to be flat and smooth where it touches the floor once the bey falls over so that it is able to take advantage its the round shape. The best example I can give is of a wheel whose underside is NOT smooth: Fusion. While Fusion is indeed circular, the bumps on the bottom of the wheel cause Fusion to not roll once it has fallen over. This is in contrast to the wheels listed here like Scythe that are indeed flat and do roll once they scrape the floor.

Third, the wheel's radius in relation to the rest of the custom must be appropritate (which I'll define here) in order for the wheel to actually touch the ground once it has fallen over. Wheels with small radii like Duo need to be on a track/tip combination that is also small in radius in order for the wheel to be able to roll on the ground. If, for example, you are using R145 with Duo, Duo will never touch the ground once the bey has fallen over and thus will not actually help with LAD.

Fourth, it can be beneficial if the wheel overhangs the track a bit. This goes back to the last point that was made about the wheel needing to touch the floor when its Beyblade falls over. If the wheel overhangs the track, it can be more likely to touch the floor before the rest of your track/tip combination.

To recap, traits of metal wheels with good LAD include:
* Round shape
* Flat on bottom
* Appropriate radius
* Overhangs the track

Here I'll list the wheels that have good LAD by themselves; if your custom is using one of these wheels, it will have good natural LAD already provided you aren't using a track/tip setup that gets in the way.

Duo
This wheel exemplifies natural LAD. It is, admittedly, rather small in radius, so it won't give LAD to tracks wider than it like most gimmicked 145 tracks. On smaller tracks like regular 145, AD145, 230, and on shorter tracks, Duo provides amazing LAD thanks to its completely round shape, circular weight distribution, and the amount it overhangs the track.

Death
Death is another great wheel for LAD. It has a nice, wide radius, it overhangs the track a good bit, and it is completely circularly balanced. While it technically isn't perfectly round on the bottom, it's certainly close enough.

Scythe
This is an interesting wheel for LAD. It has many positive traits, namely its circular balance, track overhanging, and flat bottom, but its large width is both a blessing and a curse. It is so wide that it will give customs LAD that wouldn't have it when using small wheels like Duo, but this width also makes Scythe tend to stop spinning faster once it has fallen over (especially on short customs). Thus, it's tricky to judge this wheel's true effectiveness, but it does have natural LAD without a doubt.

Basalt
Basalt satisfies almost all the conditions for having good LAD, but its natural imbalance does make it want to stop spinning faster than other circular wheels. In practice, however, this imbalance isn't terribly noticeable, and thus it still exhibits good LAD. It is very small in radius, however, so the track/tip setup it is on must either be very thin or very short for it to work.

Hell
This wheel requires some explaining. Hell by itself is horrible for LAD, but BD145 in Boost Mode is pretty darn close to perfect. Boost Mode BD145 is perfectly round, flat, circularly balanced, and it will always be the part that scrapes the floor when it falls over. Since you can only use Boost Mode on Hell, Hell gets a spot on this list.

Earth
While Earth is heavily outclassed in basically every regard, it does have a totally circular shape and thus has decent LAD. Earth is worth mentioning since for bladers who only have access to Hasbro parts, this might be their only option for a metal wheel with natural LAD. Still, the other wheels listed here all have better LAD (and are better in most every other regard as well).

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Tracks

What if you're using a metal wheel that doesn't have natural LAD, but still want to add some to your combo? Well, don't fret, as there are some options for tracks and tips that can help you out.

Here, I'm going to discuss two tracks that can greatly assist users of metal wheels with poor LAD. Note that these tracks don't give true Life After Death to a Beyblade; rather, using them only helps the bey spin a rotation or two more than Beyblades that don't use them. An example of a track that would give true LAD would be BD145 in Boost Mode, but I've already covered that.

ED145
The idea behind using ED145 for LAD is that once a Beyblade using ED145 falls over, it will lean on the wings of ED145 and keep spinning thanks to the track’s free-spinning gimmick. This certainly works well with metal wheels with smaller radii, but for medium and large wheels the metal wheel might still make contact with the ground. This is certainly a weakness, but ED145 is a relatively easy piece to get compared to the next track I'm going to discuss, making it an attractive option especially for Hasbro bladers.

TR145
This track is made for giving LAD to wheels that otherwise have no business spinning once knocked over. It has a lot going for it: it's heavier than ED145 (not by much, but every bit helps), and the fact that it is fixed helps in ways I'll discuss soon. TR145 is predominately circular with three rollers that jut out slightly from the circle. Because they are rollers, they allow the Beyblade they're on to spin once toppled over almost as well as if the track was a complete circle. The rollers are also very important because they can cover problem areas on a metal wheel's underside if said wheel is three-sided. For example, one can align the track so the wheels cover the rubber on L-Drago Destroy/Destructor/Guardian or the parts of Gravity that hang down further, thus preventing those parts from scraping when the bey is tipped over. This gives TR145 a distinct advantage over ED145 as while TR145 completely prevents these problem areas from scraping, ED145 might still allow the troubled spots to hit the floor since it is not fixed. However, it should be noted that because it is fixed, TR145 is not as well-balanced as ED145 when put on metal wheels that are not three-sided.

In closing, here are the main draws and weaknesses to each track:

ED145
+ Can be used on non-three sided wheels without much imbalance
+ Offers arguably more defense than TR145 against low attackers
+ Much easier to obtain than TR145
- Only offers notable LAD to wheels with small radii

TR145
+ Heavier than ED145
+ Blocks problem areas on the underside of a metal wheel
+ Can be used on almost all wheels regardless of radii
- Not as well-balanced on non-three-sided wheels
- Harder to get

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Tips

So, let's say you've already got a metal wheel and track in mind, but still want to add more LAD to a custom. Do not fret, as there are a few tips that do the job quite well!

RDF
This tip has a truly awesome shape. Because it is so tall and its plastic ring extends so far down, RDF resists toppling over like no other tip. This gives it great LAD even on problem tracks like R145, as at low spin rates the bey spins on RDF's plastic ring rather than falling and allowing any other part to scrape. This tip is the only mostly-stationary tip that provides LAD, which gives it a unique niche. However, it is still a rubber tip, meaning it simply does not have the stamina or spin equalizing abilities as other tips. Its defense is certainly incredible, though, so if you want LAD on your defense custom, RDF is an excellent choice.

CF
With Zero-G came a slew of new tracks and tips that just beg to be abused in BB-10s. One of these tips is CF, which is basically a WF with a huge plastic disk around the top. In practice it performs very similarly to a regular WF with some notable differences. It is significantly heavier than most other tips (over 2 grams), but its main feature is its ability to give LAD to almost any custom thanks to the disk. When a CF-using Beyblade starts spinning at low spin rates, it leans on the disk of CF and continues to spin thanks to CF's circular shape. CF's disk is so wide that most Beyblades will not topple any further, meaning CF's LAD bonus can be applied to nearly any custom. The tip is an aggressive tip and it has some issues with scraping at high spin rates, but its ability to give LAD is almost unmatched...

GCF
...except by, arguably, GCF. GCF is almost the exact same tip as CF, except its tip is XF-sized and its disk has gear-like notches instead of being completely circular. The tip behaves in the same way as CF at low spin rates; the Beyblade will lean on GCF's disk and not topple any further. While GCF's gear shape does not grant it as much LAD as CF, this is made up for in spades by the width of the main tip. XF is a much more stable tip at low spin rates than WF, such that GCF will spin at low spin rates without falling over far longer than WF. Not only that, but GCF's gear's teeth are spaced close enough that it is basically circular as far as LAD is concerned. However, it, like CF, is an aggressive track, and it too has issues with scraping at high spin rates; these drawbacks, though, are made up for by GCF's incredible balance at low spin rates and its ability to give almost any custom additional LAD.

To recap:

RDF
+/- Stationary movement pattern
+/- Rather tall
+ Great defense
+ Provides LAD to most customs
- Rubber means less stamina and spin equalization

CF
+/- Aggressive movement pattern
+/- Short
+ Heavy
+ Provides LAD to nearly any custom
- Poor balance at low spin rates
- Scrapes at high speeds

GCF
+/- Aggressive movement pattern
+/- Short
+ Heavy
+ Provides LAD to nearly any custom
+ Great balance at low spin rates
- Gear shape not as good as full circle for LAD
- Scrapes at high speeds

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Closing Remarks

I hope this article has provided you a good understanding of Life After Death in MFB and the parts that offer this unique trait such that you will know, in the future, how to give your custom something extra it might otherwise be missing. While LAD isn't one of the most important parts of a Beyblade's abilities, it is still something that should be taken into account when building a new Beyblade custom (particularly spin equalizers).

So, with that I conclude the second article for the Beginner's Guide to Advanced Custom Construction; check back from time to time for more articles! Until then!
It seems like these articles will just "build upon" some articles that were already written in the Physics topic :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Physics


Anyway, I thought Life After Death did not exist at all in Metal Fight Beyblade, hence why there are no Zombies ? Is it really just the act of "picking yourself up" after scraping down ?

Pisces, not "Pieces".

I think the spoiler in the Higher Maximum RPMs section is totally unnecessary and just serves to confuse even more. If you want to credit th!nk, write something more simple, like : "Credits to th!nk for explaining the following theory."

Also, I would give the example of an American football player or a sumo fighter crouching, for the centre of gravity.
(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Anyway, I thought Life After Death did not exist at all in Metal Fight Beyblade, hence why there are no Zombies ? Is it really just the act of "picking yourself up" after scraping down ?

Right. It doesn't exist in Metal Fights!
(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: It seems like these articles will just "build upon" some articles that were already written in the Physics topic :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Physics

These are certainly similar, though I will be doing my best to give as many MFB examples for each topic as possible to make these somewhat advanced concepts easier to grasp than a full-blown "physics" article (which can be intimidating).

Also, not all of the articles will be purely based on Physics concepts, like the Life After Death article I've already written. The articles are designed to help users apply more advanced ideas when they make customs such that said customs can be built with a concrete concept in mind.

(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Anyway, I thought Life After Death did not exist at all in Metal Fight Beyblade, hence why there are no Zombies ? Is it really just the act of "picking yourself up" after scraping down ?
Life After Death certainly exists in MFB, but not to the extent it does in Plastics/HMS. LAD simply refers to a custom's ability to complete full rotations even after it has lost balance. In the plastic generation, circular weight disks and small attack rings were used for this purpose since they would roll on the ground once knocked over. In MFB, the parts I listed have the ability to continue to complete rotations even after balance has been lost, but not for as long as true Zombies.

As far as a Beyblade picking itself up, if a Beyblade loses balance toward the beginning of a match and scrapes, it will have an easier time picking itself back up if it has the traits listed for LAD than those that do not, though that is different from the LAD seen at the end of a battle.

If I am wrong about this terminology, please let me know. However, I would like to say that I'm pretty sure I used the term "Life After Death" correctly.

(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Pisces, not "Pieces".
Changed, thank you.

(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: I think the spoiler in the Higher Maximum RPMs section is totally unnecessary and just serves to confuse even more. If you want to credit th!nk, write something more simple, like : "Credits to th!nk for explaining the following theory."
I changed that section to remove the spoiler and incorporate what was in the spoiler into the article. The reason that spoiler was originally there was because Th!nk told me that what I had written might have been incorrect rather than it being there to give credit.

(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Also, I would give the example of an American football player or a sumo fighter crouching, for the centre of gravity.
I will certainly use that example in the Center of Gravity article, thank you!
(Jul. 11, 2012  11:36 PM)Ingulit Wrote:
(Jul. 11, 2012  10:39 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Anyway, I thought Life After Death did not exist at all in Metal Fight Beyblade, hence why there are no Zombies ? Is it really just the act of "picking yourself up" after scraping down ?
Life After Death certainly exists in MFB, but not to the extent it does in Plastics/HMS. LAD simply refers to a custom's ability to complete full rotations even after it has lost balance. In the plastic generation, circular weight disks and small attack rings were used for this purpose since they would roll on the ground once knocked over. In MFB, the parts I listed have the ability to continue to complete rotations even after balance has been lost, but not for as long as true Zombies.

As far as a Beyblade picking itself up, if a Beyblade loses balance toward the beginning of a match and scrapes, it will have an easier time picking itself back up if it has the traits listed for LAD than those that do not, though that is different from the LAD seen at the end of a battle.

If I am wrong about this terminology, please let me know. However, I would like to say that I'm pretty sure I used the term "Life After Death" correctly.
In MFBs it is only Spin Stealing. LAD is a propriety that only zombies have; zombies can rotate even without the impacts between your Bey and the one that your opponent shoots, after it finish its rotations.. of course! In MFBs' your Bey can only have one or a couple of rotations after that the Bey, of your opponent, finishes to rotate; it means that all MFBs' can only steal rotations. No one of them can't assorb rotations to use after the end of the match.
I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say, and the majority of what I can is incorrect:

"In MFBs it is only Spin Stealing" is an entirely wrong statement. Because there are no decent bearing-based tips other than B:D (which has such little defense that it is irrelevant for this purpose), there is no spin stealing in MFB at all, only spin equalizing.

Semantics aside, Life After Death is in no way restricted to Zombies. Yes, the term came from the property that Zombies are notable for, but just because they are the most famous users of Life After Death does not mean that a Beyblade has to be a Zombie to use it.

To put that last point another way, you seem to think that Life After Death is in some way related to spin equalization, which is entirely incorrect. This is from the article on Zombies on the Beywiki:

Beywiki Wrote:Life After Death

The origin of the name "Zombie" is not its ability to steal spin, but its "life after death" ability. The term "Life After Death" is used to describe a zombie's ability to continue spinning on its side after it has fallen over. If your Beyblade is still making complete rotations, it is still considered to be spinning. To have this ability, your Beyblade must be perfectly round at the points that touch the stadium floor when it falls over.

If you read my article, this is exactly what I said Life After Death was (and I went into great detail defining it as such). You did read it, right? Also, I had assumed that reading all of the Beywiki was mandatory for this section, but you should definitely browse it some more sometime soon before you make statements like that.
Nothing has the LAD required for zombies, but MFB blades do still have LAD. There isn't anything that combines the spin direction, round shape, and LAD for zombies in MFB, plus there are recoil issues with the metal-on-metal contact and the increased weight of MFB. I think if we got a sufficiently round, low recoil, and well distributed left spin MW then BGrin or something else with good LAD and low friction (seeing as bearings aren't neccessarily a requirement for zombies, just look a spiral change base, though they provide the low friction needed as well as increased LAD). Honestly, MLD does get sort of close at times to managing to be a zombie, though it still falls short on LAD grounds, it still does a very similar thing, it's just that unlike zombies, it doesn't destroy every other stamina type.

FWIW, Phantom/Duo B: D was able to outspin a left spinning spiral change base combo when I tried it, if that helps. Overall though, the classification of zombies and spin stealers is, as far as I can tell, quite fuzzy. I'm not even sure whether to call spiral change base combos zombie setups, despite the fact they match the performance requirements perfectly, just because they don't use bearings and so on.


To summarise, I think the main point with MFB is there's nothing in left spin that can steal spin well enough to be a zombie, and while there are right spin wheels that probably could, a) there's nothing worth stealing spin from that uses left spin and b) B: D is way too easy to KO (though weak launching can help a bit, it's still at a horrible height).


Anyway, top guide Ingulit. Finally someone is actually doing what this darned forum was created for. Nice work.
Ingulit, how can you equalise spin ? You need to steal spin in order to reach a level where the spins are equalised. And in Meteo L Drago CH120EWD's case, this point where the spins are equalised is efficient enough that you can consider it Spin Stealing, since it wins most of the time.
Urgh, this discussion again. Honestly I think I've said both things about it over time out of confusion. It's all very much semantics, but I think we can call it spin stealing safely as long as we make clear they aren't good enough at it to be zombies (at least not yet).

Do we want to just officially agree now that it's okay to call it spin stealing and spin equalizing, if no one objects?
Great article. It's useful to see the competitive usage of many new parts listed, too.
(Jul. 12, 2012  5:45 AM)Ingulit Wrote: "In MFBs it is only Spin Stealing" is an entirely wrong statement. Because there are no decent bearing-based tips other than B:D (which has such little defense that it is irrelevant for this purpose), there is no spin stealing in MFB at all, only spin equalizing.
Ah, really?
And let me know... how do you obtain your spin equalizing without spin stealing?

(Jul. 12, 2012  5:45 AM)Ingulit Wrote: Semantics aside, Life After Death is in no way restricted to Zombies. Yes, the term came from the property that Zombies are notable for, but just because they are the most famous users of Life After Death does not mean that a Beyblade has to be a Zombie to use it.
So... Flash Pisces GB145 RF that is not a Zombie can use the LAD, right. This is what you've said.

(Jul. 12, 2012  5:45 AM)Ingulit Wrote: To put that last point another way, you seem to think that Life After Death is in some way related to spin equalization, which is entirely incorrect. This is from the article on Zombies on the Beywiki:

Beywiki Wrote:Life After Death

The origin of the name "Zombie" is not its ability to steal spin, but its "life after death" ability. The term "Life After Death" is used to describe a zombie's ability to continue spinning on its side after it has fallen over. If your Beyblade is still making complete rotations, it is still considered to be spinning. To have this ability, your Beyblade must be perfectly round at the points that touch the stadium floor when it falls over.

If you read my article, this is exactly what I said Life After Death was (and I went into great detail defining it as such). You did read it, right? Also, I had assumed that reading all of the Beywiki was mandatory for this section, but you should definitely browse it some more sometime soon before you make statements like that.
Oh dude, don't worry. Maybe you don't know, but I've translated more than the 50% of the entire Beywiki for the Italian community; and the zombie article was one of them. What a coincidence!
Maybe the one that should read better the article is another person...
The aricle clearly says that "If your Beyblade is still making complete rotations, it is still considered to be spinning. To have this ability, your Beyblade must be perfectly round at the points that touch the stadium floor when it falls over."
It means that:
1. For LAD I should see round shapes; wait... in MFB?!?
2. MFBs that spin in Left are Variares,Gravity Perseus, LLDrago, MLD. The only tip released with a bearing is B:D... and it sucks. If you're trying to obtain LAD with something as RDF and Gravity Perseus\MLD, you are dreaming.
3. Putting aside Variares and LLDrago, please let me see how Gravity and MLD can do something against new releases and win thanks to their spin stealing. The only thing that' I've seen are ties in 98% of the matches.
Galaxy, you aren't listening to me... I will say again that the article addresses many of the concerns you have, and that LAD is certainly a part of Beyblades in general, not just left-spin beys or zombies. If you want more detail, shoot me a PM. I don't want to cause a conflict in my first post in the advanced section, and I'm sorry I said what I did about the Beywiki, but I will hold firm that there is Life After Death for Beyblades other than Zombies.
Question: Should I have mentioned B:D in the Life After Death article? It never really ever topples over, but it certainly spins on its side for a long time.
Yeah, it's definitely worth mentioning, just make sure to include the reasons it's basically unusable.
On Spin Stealing vs. Spin Equalizing, I agree with th!nk we should use both as one and the same. But, if we were to pick one, Spin Equalizing or Spin Sharing is more accurate in the context of MFB, as “stealing” has a very one-sided connotation. This is definitely not case the in MFB. Edit: Incomplete sentence


Ingulit Wrote:+ Heavier and wider than ED145

I don’t know where or how you got that TR145 was wider than ED145, but it’s the opposite, and noticeably so. My own ED145 and TR145 also both weight the same thing; 3.61 grams.

I personally think that both tracks help with precession, but do not have real LAD capabilities. ED145 is impaired by the Eternal gimmick’s friction and its “studded” wings. TR145 gets sort of “jumpy” when it hits the floor. Actually, I don’t really think there are any LAD-potent tracks, except BD145 in Boost Mode (which you mention anyway).


Ingulit Wrote:I thought long and hard about where to put Fusion, but I settled on having it in the centered weight distribution section rather than the even distribution section.

You should stick to your initial idea and put Fusion in the “even” section. The Core is heavy, but the frame is slightly heavier than twice the weight of the Core and very thin in the center. Its weight distribution becomes evidently clear when you remove the rubber frame to look at the bulk of the weight and where it is located.


I also think there needs to be more practical examples. Jade, for example, is nice to demonstrate the theory (that means you should keep it), but on a practical level, such an example would fit better in the context of Plastics, where Weights Disks have standard shapes, weights and distributions, and comprise a large portion of the total weight of a Beyblade and where most Attack Rings have similar weights, allowing you to really pay more attention to the overall distribution of your Beyblade than to the weight of each parts (best example I can think of is Driger V2 being able to use its Upper Attack with a Heavy Weight Disk and HMC while being very, very large). In MFB however, Metal Wheels are both the Attack Rings and the Weight Disks, varying in shapes, sizes and weights, so one cannot go without the other.

In concrete terms, a wheel could be more outwardly distributed, but because it is heavier and its diameter is smaller than another wheel with a more centered distribution, but overall lighter and with a larger diameter, and still have better. Just like an even-weighted wheel could exhibit a better flywheel effect simply because it is wider than its more outwardly-distributed, but smaller opponent.

Despite all my criticism, this is still a very good article.
Thank you, Nocto, that's exactly the kind of criticism I was hoping for! I'll go over it here:

(Jul. 14, 2012  12:39 AM)Nocto Wrote:
Ingulit Wrote:+ Heavier and wider than ED145

I don’t know where or how you got that TR145 was wider than ED145, but it’s the opposite, and noticeably so. My own ED145 and TR145 also both weight the same thing; 3.61 grams.

I personally think that both tracks help with precession, but do not have real LAD capabilities. ED145 is impaired by the Eternal gimmick’s friction and its “studded” wings. TR145 gets sort of “jumpy” when it hits the floor. Actually, I don’t really think there are any LAD-potent tracks, except BD145 in Boost Mode (which you mention anyway).
Now that I look at it, ED145 is certainly wider than TR145, so I'm not sure why I put that and will change it now. As far as it being heavier, mine certainly is: my ED145 is 3.39g while my TR145 is 3.67g. It is a very minor difference, I'll admit, so I might do well to remove the weight comment as well.

What you said about precession is very true, and yes, neither track gives true LAD (perhaps I need to reword that section?). However, they do enable tracks like Meteo to spin ever so slightly longer once they've fallen over, unlike most other tracks that either do not help (like 145) or really hurt (like R145).

(Jul. 14, 2012  12:39 AM)Nocto Wrote:
Ingulit Wrote:I thought long and hard about where to put Fusion, but I settled on having it in the centered weight distribution section rather than the even distribution section.

You should stick to your initial idea and put Fusion in the “even” section. The Core is heavy, but the frame is slightly heavier than twice the weight of the Core and very thin in the center. Its weight distribution becomes evidently clear when you remove the rubber frame to look at the bulk of the weight and where it is located.
Yeah, you're certainly right about all of this. Give me a bit to make this edit, but I'll remove it from the centered section.

(Jul. 14, 2012  12:39 AM)Nocto Wrote: I also think there needs to be more practical examples. Jade, for example, is nice to demonstrate the theory (that means you should keep it), but on a practical level, such an example would fit better in the context of Plastics, where Weights Disks have standard shapes, weights and distributions, and comprise a large portion of the total weight of a Beyblade and where most Attack Rings have similar weights, allowing you to really pay more attention to the overall distribution of your Beyblade than to the weight of each parts (best example I can think of is Driger V2 being able to use its Upper Attack with a Heavy Weight Disk and HMC while being very, very large). In MFB however, Metal Wheels are both the Attack Rings and the Weight Disks, varying in shapes, sizes and weights, so one cannot go without the other.
You have a very good point, and it's one that I thought a lot about. It is really hard to have centered weight distribution in MFB for the reasons you described about Metal Wheels. This article is supposed to focus on the few pieces in MFB that can actually exhibit a more centered weight distribution. I put the note about Compacts in that section specifically to mention how much easier it is to do in older generations. My hope was that a reader might look up Compacts on the Beywiki; maybe a link would be a good addition? I'm just afraid I wouldn't do the older generations justice if I tried to write about them since I'm primarily a MFB blader.

(Jul. 14, 2012  12:39 AM)Nocto Wrote: In concrete terms, a wheel could be more outwardly distributed, but because it is heavier and its diameter is smaller than another wheel with a more centered distribution, but overall lighter and with a larger diameter, and still have better. Just like an even-weighted wheel could exhibit a better flywheel effect simply because it is wider than its more outwardly-distributed, but smaller opponent.
This is an interesting theory, and one I didn't really think about... as a matter of fact, an article about Metal Wheel diameter might be useful to describe exactly what you just said, and it would keep this article a littler cleaner to put this information in another place. That is to say, I'd like to keep the most extreme examples of the weight distributions in this piece so that a reader can better grasp that concept, and then have another article where wheel diameter and its effects can be more fully developed.

(Jul. 14, 2012  12:39 AM)Nocto Wrote: Despite all my criticism, this is still a very good article.

Thank you, and by all means, this is exactly the criticism I was hoping for when I posted this in the Advanced Section! It is all greatly appreciated!


EDIT: I changed basically everything that needed changing, and I added a few things like a link to the Beywiki Compact article and a note about the tracks not giving true LAD, but rather just improved abilities when knocked over.
One of the biggest differences between plastics and MFB is that plastics give you separate control over contact point shape and overall weight distribution (and it comes across more as the latter as the preferred weight distribution is usually considered after the contact point shape is chosen). This makes the various weight distributions more obvious (including externalised distribution, hence wide defense being useful for almost everything (and wide survivor to a lesser extent due to it being too light a lot of the time)).

As for the link in the centred section, the compacts article is fine (though it has a couple of errors, oversights and so on, I didn't notice any errors on the relevant parts). We have a spin velocity article: http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Spin_velocity but to me it just looks like a far less useful version of what you've written here (you should look that article over some time, by the way).

I'm still working on drafts for this thread, but until those are done I figured I'd post some data that I've measured that is very important when making customs. That data is:

Tip Heights

Far too often it seems as though when newer Bladers put together customs, they judge the height of a custom based solely on the number in that custom's track's name. For example, this bey is 145 height because it uses BD145, or this bey is 220 height because it uses TH220. While the track is certainly one of the main determiners of how tall a bey is, it's only half the picture: tips come in many heights, and the combination of how tall your tip is and how tall your track is is what really makes up how tall your bey is overall (barring the height of the Metal Wheel, a topic that is complicated enough to warrant its own article).

I measured all the tips that I have (read: almost all the tips) with a digital caliper and then converted the measurement from hundredths of millimeters to the format used for track names. In other words, if I write that a tip is 90 tall, that means it is 9.0mm tall. I've listed all that data in this article below.

This article is meant to be used as a reference on how tall a given tip is, not on the importance of tip height in general. In another article I'll go over why this information is important by covering topics such as the science behind why a Beyblade scrapes. Until then, I feel it is prudent to at least say the following:
For a tip not to scrape on BD145 when launched at full power, the tip has to be at least ~98 (~10 mm) tall or taller.

There will be two sections:
  • Sorted by Tip Type
  • Sorted by Height

_______________________________________


Sorted by Tip Type

----==== D Variants ====----
D:
--> RBV8: 90
--> Hasbro: 87
SD: 89
WD: 87
EWD: 85
PD: 88
DS: 88
SWD: 90
EDS: 109
W2D: 87

*NOTE: There are two heights for D because the D I have from a Hasbro Counter Scorpio is a solid 0.3 millimeters shorter than the D that I got from Divine Crown from Random Booster Vol. 8. I don't have a clue why they're different.

----==== B Variants ====----
WB: 90
JB: 87
MB: 109
SB: 90

----==== Rubber Defense Tips ====----
RS: 107
CS: 109
RSF: 108
RB: 113
RDF: 99 (worn)

*NOTE: My RDF is incredibly worn, and a mint one is likely at least 5 taller if not more.

----==== CF Variants ====----
CF: 90
GCF: 89

*NOTE: CF and GCF are interesting. If you just measure how tall the two tracks are from top to bottom, it seems like they're pretty tall; however, if you put the two tracks on a bey, they only reach down as far as other F variants. This is because the disks on both tips are raised and cover part of the track as oppose to making up the total height of the tip.

----==== F Variants ====----
F: 89
HF: 90
WF: 89
XF: 89
SF: 90
FB: 89
LF: 109
MF: 108
BSF: 108
HF/S:
-HF-> 120
-S--> 118

*NOTE: BSF is similar to CF and GCF in that if you just measure the whole thing, it's taller than it actually is on the bey. The height listed here is how tall it is on a bey, and it's still pretty darn tall.

----==== RF Variants ====----
RF:
-Worn-> 105
-Mint-> 110
R2F:
-Used-> 108
-Worn-> 105
-Mint-> 111
-Cosmic, Mint-> 106
LRF:
-Used-> 107

*NOTE:
"Worn" means the tip has been used excessively and is almost no longer legal.
"Used" means the tip is in its prime state, having only been used slightly.
"Mint" means the tip is fresh out of the box, having never been used. Note that mint tips are usually uncontrollable and need to be worn down before you use them in tournaments.

*NOTE: Yes, the R2F from Hasbro's Cosmic Pegasus is considerably shorter than regular R2Fs.

----==== S Variants ====----
S: 90
MS: 109

----==== Other ====----
Q: 89

_______________________________________


Sorted by Height

85-90
EWD: 85
D Hasbro: 87
WD: 87
W2D: 87
JB: 87
PD: 88
DS: 88
SD: 89
GCF: 89
F: 89
WF: 89
XF: 89
FB: 89
Q: 89
D RBV8: 90
SWD: 90
WB: 90
SB: 90
CF: 90
HF: 90
SF: 90
S: 90

99
RDF Worn: 99

105 to 113
RF Worn: 105
R2F Worn: 105
R2F Cosmic: 106
RS: 107
LRF Used: 107
MS: 107
RSF: 108
MF: 108
BSF: 108
R2F Used: 108
EDS: 109
MB: 109
CS: 109
LF: 109
RF Mint: 110
R2F Mint: 111
RB: 113

118+
HF/S S: 118
HF/S HF: 120

_______________________________________


Closing Remarks

I hope this article can serve as a valuable reference when making customs. If you have any measurements of your own that you'd like to add to this list, send me a PM!
Man, this is one of the gems from the old Advanced Forum. Can we get this stickied? This could definitely still be useful.