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F230CF & F230GCF Trial Ban in Zero-G Format Discussion

May. 04, 2015  12:26 AM
 

F230CF & F230GCF Trial Ban
in Zero-G Format Discussion


[Image: WBO_Zero_G_Beyblade_F230_CF_F230_GCF.jpg]


Trial Period: 10 Zero-G Tournaments
So much has been said about the banning of F230 since last February that it's hard to know where we should start with this new discussion based upon the reality that we have decided in favour of a temporary ban of the combination of F230CF and F230GCF in WBO Organized Play's Zero-G Format. After 10 tournaments have passed since the announcement of this ban, and we have analyzed the results of the temporary ban, we will make our final decision on whether to permanently ban the combination or not.


Why temporarily ban F230CF & F230GCF?
I don't think we need to convince the people that were in favour of the ban as to why we are doing this, but for those that were opposed here's some of my own thoughts on the subject and what led us to decide to finally try temporarily banning these combinations of parts:

In Beyblade, the best players are always searching for the combinations that afford them the most versatility in any given situation: this is why Libra was banned, this is why Basalt was so dominant and should have been banned, this is why Gravity was banned from Limited. We don't want to use parts that have a single, very specific use because in most situations we do not know what our opponent is using. If we do choose to use something that has a single, very specific use we are taking a huge risk and hoping that our prediction of what our opponent will use is correct. The best players can overcome type disadvantages with technique, but the odds will be against you and it becomes very difficult, if not impossible to win.

So, let's get this out of the way: Yes, F230CF and F230GCF are not unbeatable. In fact, in some regions like Toronto we have not experienced as much trouble with it as other regions have. There is several ways to defeat it. But just like Basalt he issue is that it is too versatile. It's too easy to choose a F230CF/GCF combination in a tournament because it is one of the safest choices you can make; it has a chance of beating almost anything you can throw at it. This is why it has dominated the Winning Combinations list in practically every region globally.

I am personally still of the opinion that it should not be be banned; things like Sway Attack, SA165BWD, and SA165TB against right-spin F230CF/GCF can defeat it, and it's performance also varies wildly depending on what Zero-G stadium you use it in. In the end however, when we considered that the Zero-G series has now ended–releases for Garudas, Whiger, and Fenrir having become distant, faded dreams–and took a look at where the Zero-G metagame stands in it's completed form, we decided that the case for banning it was strong enough to warrant trying out. Most importantly to us, it would provide an opportunity to open up the metagame to new possibilities that were not viable in the past. We don't necessarily want to interfere with the ecosystem of parts that TAKARA-TOMY invented, but as an independent fan-run organization we also believe in attempting to make the game as fun and varied as possible for our players with what we have been given.


We need your opinion!
So what now? We want your opinion! Let us know in this thread what you think will happen in light of the temporary ban on F230CF and F230GCF. What combinations will be dominant?

We will be placing the most emphasis on the reports of people who play in the next 10 Zero-G tournaments, so start posting your Event Proposals and let's get started on this new era in the Zero-G Format!
May. 04, 2015  12:37 AM
 
Interesting to see. I plan on hosting in June so I'll definitely do a Zero-G event for this. Obviously, not in favor of a permanent ban, in the long run. Especially with Burst in the near future, I don't see banning it going to be as important since MFB and Zero-G events probably will decrease once Burst is out and about.
May. 04, 2015  1:19 AM
 
NC has a Zero G tournament coming soon. And I can do some tests while in Toronto.
May. 04, 2015  1:31 AM
 
@[TheBlackDragon]


The point has been argued back and forth so thoroughly I don't really know what I think of the issue anymore, but I think the way that the Committee handled it with a temporary ban was the right decision. I probably won't be going to any Zero-G tournaments for a while but we can see what happens.
May. 04, 2015  2:15 AM
 
Back to Reviser Dragoon B : D we go.

It'll be interesting though to see how it goes, looking forward to it.
May. 04, 2015  2:17 AM
 
(May. 04, 2015  2:15 AM)Ayy lmao Wrote: Back to Reviser Dragoon B : D we go.

It'll be interesting though to see how it goes, looking forward to it.

This.

Can't help but emphasize/agree with that, myself, haha.

Nonetheless, this should be interesting.
May. 04, 2015  2:37 AM
 
(May. 04, 2015  2:15 AM)Ayy lmao Wrote: Back to Reviser Dragoon B : D we go.

It'll be interesting though to see how it goes, looking forward to it.

Personally Im gonna be going left sway attack. But that's just me.
May. 04, 2015  2:46 AM
 
(May. 04, 2015  2:17 AM)Leone19 Wrote:
(May. 04, 2015  2:15 AM)Ayy lmao Wrote: Back to Reviser Dragoon B : D we go.

It'll be interesting though to see how it goes, looking forward to it.

This.

Can't help but emphasize/agree with that, myself, haha.

Nonetheless, this should be interesting.
I actually think that Duo is better than Reviser Dragooon B:D in Zero-G. Nevertheless, the fact that these two will be used in place of F230 CF/GCF makes sway attack a much more stable option, to second Dark_Mousy's post.
May. 04, 2015  7:24 PM
 
I'm literally almost crying right now.

This is gonna be awesome. Thanks so much for giving this a shot guys! I guarantee you this format will be infinitely more interesting with F230 gone (even in Toronto, I'm willing to bet).

(May. 04, 2015  2:15 AM)Ayy lmao Wrote: Back to Reviser Dragoon B : D we go.

Just use any variant of Dragooon ZRG Attack or pretty much any variant of Duo Stamina and you shouldn't have any problems.

I can't wait to see how this turns out!
May. 04, 2015  11:44 PM
 
Why does this always happen when I'm out ? Anyway, it's all good news, I haven't attended a Zero-G tournament yet, so I don't really have an opinion on the subject. Also, since in Montreal the only bladers that own a Orange F230 are Kai-V and myself, I don't thinks it's a real menace for our region.
May. 14, 2015  7:13 PM
 
While I'm not completely agreeing on this (told you the problem was on Dragooon), any development on the Zero G meta is always welcome, for I haven't played it in a very long time owing to a missing F230. I see that after this ban a lot of events popped up.

A question: Since nothing new is going to be introduced in zero g, is the ban likely to be set in stone (i.e permanent)? If it is I'm afraid we just took off a viable counter to Dragooon B: D (remember that B: Dis very good at resisting sway for a 4D Bottom that sucks at defense) which is right spin F230(G)CF

But just an extra, I won't stand for the permanent ban and if you guys agree, I'm afraid you will need to get through me or face incredible resistance.
May. 15, 2015  12:12 AM
 
(May. 14, 2015  7:13 PM)RDF3 Wrote: While I'm not completely agreeing on this (told you the problem was on Dragooon), any development on the Zero G meta is always welcome, for I haven't played it in a very long time owing to a missing F230. I see that after this ban a lot of events popped up.

A question: Since nothing new is going to be introduced in zero g, is the ban likely to be set in stone (i.e permanent)? If it is I'm afraid we just took off a viable counter to Dragooon B: D (remember that B: Dis very good at resisting sway for a 4D Bottom that sucks at defense) which is right spin F230(G)CF

But just an extra, I won't stand for the permanent ban and if you guys agree, I'm afraid you will need to get through me or face incredible resistance.

The only answer for now is: we'll see. As of now the ban lasts for 10 tournaments, and if the results of those tournaments show that having F230(G)CF gone improves the Zero-G meta, it will probably be permanent.

From my experience Dragooon B:D is actually pretty weak to Zero-G Attack; I was able to beat it with Balro Wyvang AD145GF at the only Zero-G tournament I've been to. Prior to the tournament I had practiced that matchup ahead of time and Wyvang got pretty consistent results as well.
May. 15, 2015  1:16 AM
 
Great to see I can jump back in and 100% enjoy playing again. #guesswhosback
May. 15, 2015  5:01 AM
 
Wombat: Might just be my BGrin then, it's very difficult to move with a sway attacker. Or maybe just me that can't use sway attackers.

Well we'll just wait for now. I hope this doesn't go awry. Just to concern this is only in Zero G right?

DrPepsidew: Welcome back to the site!
May. 15, 2015  6:34 AM
 
In My Opininon This Ban List is very useless.. I mean F230CF/GCF were not too much OP to be banned. It is just "Over-Used" I Mean Of Course People feel they are OP because many use it with Dragooon//Meteo Ldrago but If you just counter-act these with attack types. These were dead. (I know a lot of people use Defense/Stamina types dawg)
So i'll say. Dont ban F230CF/GCF (Even if i dont use it Lol)
May. 16, 2015  6:38 PM
 
The reason of F230GCF anf F230CF to be overused is because of them being versiliate enough to counter most situations. They can sway to a degree, have sufficient defense to get away with attackers (that do not specifically act against it) and still got good defense. If you need to counter it with a very specific combo the whole tournament is as boring as hell it would be.
May. 16, 2015  6:57 PM
 
Was that on Dragooon or just F230GCF/CF as a whole? Because I still don't get what damage right-spin F230 can do to our meta, since it's intended purpose was against the {at the time} nigh-invulnerable Killerken/Revizer/Gargole Dragooon B: D. Most of the combinations in four threads concerning F230 are among these: Revizer/Killerken/Girago/Genbull Dragooon F230GCF/CF.

Why not just ban left spin on F230? That way, we won't have many more issues, and we can still keep using F230 GCF/CF without as much concern.

Any opinions?
May. 16, 2015  9:46 PM
 
(May. 16, 2015  6:57 PM)RDF3 Wrote: Why not just ban left spin on F230? That way, we won't have many more issues, and we can still keep using F230 GCF/CF without as much concern.

1. A ban on F230CF/GCF entirely is simpler than F230CF/GCF specifically on left-spin. Banning a combination of parts was already a stretch for us. We want things to be easy to understand for people, and not just hardcore players.

2. Something like Genbull Genbull F230CF/GCF is just as versatile as it's left-spin counterpart, Genbull Dragooon F230CF/GCF, and only slightly more vulnerable in terms of competitive counters that have more than one use (SA165TB). We therefore do not agree with the argument that only left-spin F230CF/GCF is a problem.

One of the primary goals of this ban is to open up the metagame to new options: banning only left-spin F230CF/GCF would mean that right-spin F230CF/GCF would still be running rampant, nullifying this to a significant degree.
May. 17, 2015  1:45 AM
 
I remember seeing a custom Death Cygnus F230CF/GCF and it's just as effective if not more.
May. 17, 2015  1:52 AM
 
I say yes for 0g because their bad in the 0g
May. 17, 2015  4:42 AM
 
Kei: Thanks for the answer. I've asked that for 6 times in 4 different threads concerning the same matter. Nice to see someone finally answer it.

Looks like we need to find other counters to some combos only F230GCF/CF can nullify in the first place. Thats fine tho, as long as F230GCF/CF doesn't go rampant in the BB-10 and we end up in the same drama all over again.
Jun. 14, 2015  2:21 AM
 
Just thought I'd re-post this here:

Quote:The Zero-G event was an interesting experience. Colosseum went over, and it was like a hundred degrees out, so by the time we got to the park, found a spot to play, and set up, we were all exhausted, hot and starving. That, combined with the fact that Dark, Storm and I crashed and burned took some of the fun out of the event, but it was still a great time for the most part.

I am extremely pleased to report that gameplay was undoubtedly more versatile without F230CF/GCF. I played against everything from Duo B:D to Wyvang Balro E230GCF. I saw more Zero-G Attack today than I have in all our Zero-G tournaments since summer of 2013 combined. The variety of different Stamina customs used was pretty great too.

Dragooon B:D didn't cause any problems at all. I won against it with Dragooon Zero-G Attack extremely easily; not sure if it was used much besides that. Whatever the case, it certainly didn't pose any kind of threat to game balance.

Overall, I think the ban worked out extremely well. I would seriously say this was the single most balanced meta I have ever played in in any format. There was no single combination in the event that even came close to being obviously dominant, and the variety of customs used was greater than I think I've ever seen it.

Even though I got shredded, I'd say it was a very successful test run.
Jun. 14, 2015  2:10 PM
 
OUt of my 8 matches, i think about 6 or 7 of them were Zero G Attack. Even those I was hot, tired and cranky it was still a fun event minus not winning my super deck set back. I don't even think F230 was used. ANd hjopefully our next event will be Zero G. So that will make it even better.
Jun. 14, 2015  2:37 PM
 
Nice to see you guys have fun without rambling around about F230 XD.

But seriously, if 100 degrees fahrenheit outside is hot, you should live in Indonesia- the sun can get as hot as 40 degrees celsius on the hottest of days. Now THAT is hot! And what was TBD talking about with crash and burn?

And I almost forgot that I don't play Zero-G that much, so a ban on it won't be too detrminal on my part. BB-10's more of my style, and F230 is not much of a problem there. KOing it with Attack or OSing it with odd-ball anti-spin-steal combination is what I'd do against F230 In BB-10.
Jun. 14, 2015  2:45 PM
 
We were all tired from Beyblade Colosseum. Most of them traveld 2+ hours to get to the venue. I traveled 10 ,minutes hah. And F230 CF was used in the BB10 Standard event yesterday but was no trouble for us.Colosseum took longer then expected and Zero G took longer then expected.
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