Winning Combinations at WBO Organized Play Events

Off topic, but I think you meant to start your post with "Yeah" beacuse I see in the quotes, it says "Yeah Ash_Ketchum_007 wrote".
(Apr. 30, 2019  7:41 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Also, deceased crab, can you explain why blitz worked well? I remember reading somewhere that blitz has the OWD to support the speed od attack combos (hope I remeber it right). Is this true? Maybe this is why it works well.

I used Blitz on my Archer Hercules Bearing combo for three reasons:

  1. Blitz is heavy with decent outward weight distribution;
  2. It's thick/overhangs like Wall, but doesn't usually scrape unless the spin isn't fast enough to keep the claw-like wings up;
  3. Aaaaand I lost my Wall Frame at the last tournament and didn't have Lift or Turn to use instead.
For the purposes of the combo's role in my deck, i.e. to OS opposite-spin Atomic and Outer Extend+, Blitz was decent enough to let Bearing do its job.

Otherwise, 10/0/00Wall would almost certainly be a safer choice for opposite-spin stamina matchups, and I would recommend using that, Turn, or Lift before resorting to Blitz. 😅
(Apr. 30, 2019  7:41 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Also, deceased crab, can you explain why blitz worked well? I remember reading somewhere that blitz has the OWD to support the speed od attack combos (hope I remeber it right). Is this true? Maybe this is why it works well.

"Because it worked. Because it worked well. I have no idea why."

As I said before, No, I can't! I didn't use it. And I don't understand it. Don't ask me. Angry Face has already explained it.
Ohhhhhh my god........................... just realized it was angry face who used blitz not you.............................. I apologize for the trouble.
Smile
Why Cho-Z Spriggan over aH, hS, pP, etc Angry Face?

(Apr. 30, 2019  3:11 AM)Shindog Wrote: I self KO less with Orbit.  Atomic is better in opposite spin than orbit.  However, so many drivers beat both At and O in opposites spin it didn’t bother me.

Was wondering how long it would take until we saw Orbit come back. Nice.

I played with it before the last tournament, but was too scared of running into mirror matches versus Atomic (which Orbit would lose ... assuming the At user didn't self-KO haha). But it is definitely a viable and safer alternative for certain match-ups.

(Apr. 30, 2019  3:49 AM)Shindog Wrote: 0 was used because I have lots of 0 and I picked the heaviest I think 24.3 or 24.5g.  And I would have used OO if it wasn’t already used. I also picked bump bc it is heavy.  I tried Turn, Lift, Wall too but they scrap too early.  Maybe St would be okay too but that was also being used.  I don’t want to give up too much weight to pP as there is already a huge weight difference.

Turn, Lift, and Wall are really only for Bearing in my opinion, so 10B was a good choice. Sting works good for same spin, but I'm not sure it would be the best choice for opposite (I need to test more). But on Orbit that isn't really what you're going for anyways.
(Apr. 30, 2019  9:08 PM)Kei Wrote: Why Cho-Z Spriggan over aH, hS, pP, etc @[Angry Face]?

(Apr. 30, 2019  3:11 AM)Shindog Wrote: I self KO less with Orbit.  Atomic is better in opposite spin than orbit.  However, so many drivers beat both At and O in opposites spin it didn’t bother me.

Was wondering how long it would take until we saw Orbit come back. Nice.

I played with it before the last tournament, but was too scared of running into mirror matches versus Atomic (which Orbit would lose ... assuming the At user didn't self-KO haha). But it is definitely a viable and safer alternative for certain match-ups.

(Apr. 30, 2019  3:49 AM)Shindog Wrote: 0 was used because I have lots of 0 and I picked the heaviest I think 24.3 or 24.5g.  And I would have used OO if it wasn’t already used. I also picked bump bc it is heavy.  I tried Turn, Lift, Wall too but they scrap too early.  Maybe St would be okay too but that was also being used.  I don’t want to give up too much weight to pP as there is already a huge weight difference.

Turn, Lift, and Wall are really only for Bearing in my opinion, so 10B was a good choice. Sting works good for same spin, but I'm not sure it would be the best choice for opposite (I need to test more). But on Orbit that isn't really what you're going for anyways.
I believe I found St.At to be worse than Expand.At and better than proof.At.
(Apr. 30, 2019  10:46 PM)Shindog Wrote: I believe I found St.At to be worse than Expand.At and better than proof.At.

From best to worst in opposite spin
Expand.At
Sting.At
Proof.At

Where does Bump.At fit in here? Bump gives At precession from what I've experienced.
(May. 01, 2019  2:35 AM)Biggster Wrote:
(Apr. 30, 2019  10:46 PM)Shindog Wrote: I believe I found St.At to be worse than Expand.At and better than proof.At.

From best to worst in opposite spin
Expand.At
Sting.At
Proof.At

Where does Bump.At fit in here? Bump gives At precession from what I've experienced.
Bump is worse than Proof in my experience.
(Apr. 30, 2019  9:08 PM)Kei Wrote: Why Cho-Z Spriggan over aH, hS, pP, etc @[Angry Face]?

it werks pretty gud man

I used CzS.10S.Xt+ almost exclusively at the last few events for the first stage and only lost with it twice. The first loss was against a Spryzen Requiem S4 __Destroy combo via Burst because I weak-launched against it without realizing it was also in Left-Spin and then a self-KO. The second loss was to PhoenixBurst's Geist Fafnir __Atomic because I was in Left-Spin again and couldn't OS or KO his combo. And since all my other losses from the past few tournaments came from trying to use Attack types and failing to score KOs where CzS.10S.Xt+ would have almost certainly won by OS, I opted not to use any Attack this time around.

I stuck with CzS.10S.Xt+ in Left-Spin for the entire first stage, only changing it to right spin once when I knew I was up against PhoenixBurst again, and I ended up going onto the finals undefeated. This combo was able to OS Balkesh B3.00G.Br with a strong launch in same-spin; it could OS and avoid KO by PhoenixBurst's gF.__.At this time with a weaker launch in Right-Spin; and it could KO and OS NighmareChaos' CzA.Z.Ch and Yami's cR.__.Ds' like an Anti-Attacker when Xt+ was in its flat tip mode and the combo was launched in Left-Spin and at strategic positions in the stadium.


There was one more combo CzS.10S.Xt+ beat in Left-Spin from the first stage, but all I can remember about it is that it must've been Right-Spin or else I would've most likely lost, which highlights this combo's biggest weakness: same-spin combos with decent Stamina or Attack. I was very fortunate not to encounter any forms of Longinus, Hell Salamander, or other Geist Fafnir combos during the first stage, though, I didn't see many of them being used throughout the tournament. Perhaps because most Left-Spin combos tend to lose to Perfect Phoenix, players have shied away from their use of them on account of pP's increasing popularity.

During finals, CzS.10S.Xt+ was just used to outspin Perfect Phoenix Outer Xtend+ and whatever other non-bearing, Right-Spin combos I encountered. Archer Hercules Blitz Bearing beat all non-bearing, Left-Spin combos, and Perfect Phoenix 0Proof Atomic covered pretty much everything else. With these three combos, I felt I had every major threat covered save for maybe hS._W/T/L.Br, but even CzS.10S.Xt+ in Left-Spin might have been able to destabilize a combo like that enough to make it scrape and lose by OS or KO. It would seem in the absence of other heavy Left-Spin Layers created by pP, CzS may now have room to shine, lol.


I think I also heard a little comment from someone after the event who was disappointed about this, but yes, I didn't use any pure Attack types or hybrids this time around. I was a bit disappointed with myself for this too, but I've come to the conclusion that Attack's just not a consistent enough strategy to be viable for competitive use in Burst anymore. Until we get a Layer with the weight, teeth, and shape necessary to cleanly and consistently KO the likes of pP and other Left-Spin threats, I can't see myself ever using dedicated Attack types in Burst competitions again. Maybe I'm actually just a scrub who needs to get good, but for now, I don't see a reason to play so riskily when I'd be more likely to win just using anyone of the other combos from my deck. :shrug:
Yeah, 超S is certainly good. No question about that. My question was mainly meant to pose the question as to whether it is the 'best'.

超S has the advantage of being able to be launched hard with burst stoppers, but to me this is not particularly valuable when I consider that generally speaking it has lost to aH, hS, and pP in my testing in both opposite and same spin when all else is equal (although, some of this was right when it came out and my testing wasn't super comprehensive so I could be wrong). In Japan and other Asian countries where you are allowed to switch spin directions I understand why it would be used, but for WBO, I've struggled to find where it would fit in.

That's not to say it can't be used–since obviously it can–but just that maybe it isn't at the top of top tier.

But yeah, Xt+ combos in general (whether it be with aH, pP, hS, 超S) are all pretty safe bets for the first stage in particular. Although, it's dicey for me in later rounds when you're playing against other top players; sometimes it feels pointless to go for something so obvious when you know there is a high chance your opponent will pick something similar. At that point, the risk/reward of using an Attack type in the first stage changes, I think. Especially if you're already basically guaranteed a spot in the finals (depending on the format) and because of the 2 point Burst rule for first stage.

(May. 01, 2019  2:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: I was very fortunate not to encounter any forms of Longinus, Hell Salamander, or other Geist Fafnir combos during the first stage, though, I didn't see many of them being used throughout the tournament. Perhaps because most Left-Spin combos tend to lose to Perfect Phoenix, players have shied away from their use of them on account of pP's increasing popularity.

Yeah, that's a good point regarding pP against left-spin Layers (although maybe Wizard Fafnir will change this). To me though, that also indicates a stronger case for using Attack if you know that right-spin is going to be even more common.

(May. 01, 2019  2:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: During finals, CzS.10S.Xt+ was just used to outspin Perfect Phoenix Outer Xtend+ and whatever other non-bearing, Right-Spin combos I encountered.

Oh, interesting. I see a lot of people using Ωuter on pP, but I've been sticking with Core Disk + Cross. I feel like it's better for LAD that way (don't quote me on that lol ... need to test more), so I wonder if pP using Ωuter helped 超S win.

(May. 01, 2019  2:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: Archer Hercules Blitz Bearing beat all non-bearing, Left-Spin combos, and Perfect Phoenix 0Proof Atomic covered pretty much everything else. With these three combos, I felt I had every major threat covered save for maybe hS._W/T/L.Br, but even CzS.10S.Xt+ in Left-Spin might have been able to destabilize a combo like that enough to make it scrape and lose by OS or KO.  It would seem in the absence of other heavy Left-Spin Layers created by pP, CzS may now have room to shine, lol.

I think I also heard a little comment from someone after the event who was disappointed about this, but yes, I didn't use any pure Attack types or hybrids this time around. I was a bit disappointed with myself for this too, but I've come to the conclusion that Attack's just not a consistent enough strategy to be viable for competitive use in Burst anymore. Until we get a Layer with the weight, teeth, and shape necessary to cleanly and consistently KO the likes of pP and other Left-Spin threats, I can't see myself ever using dedicated Attack types in Burst competitions again. Maybe I'm actually just a scrub who needs to get good, but for now, I don't see a reason to play so riskily when I'd be more likely to win just using anyone of the other combos from my deck.  :shrug:

I don't think anyone should ever feel bad for not using Attack to win an event. The point of a tournament is to win, and you did that! If people don't want to use what wins, then that's on them.

That being said, I would tend to disagree with your assessment of Attack as it stands currently in regular Burst Format. In first stage I can understand the apprehension, but in the final stage it is absolutely viable and consistent if you "get good" (I hate to put it this way, but that's what you said haha). I keep saying this and I feel like I've been on an island almost by myself on this issue for a while, but Xtreme' really changed the game in this regard. Attack went from being basically useless to competitively viable because of it. All of my tournament wins recently have been thanks in part to Attack combinations, and the only match I've lost recently (at A NEW BEYGINNING versus OldSchool) was because I decided to try something different and not use a real Attack type in my Deck for one match.

Using a Deck of only stamina types might seem like a good idea as by including three different Stamina Drivers like Xt+, Br, and At with varying spin directions does allow you to cover a lot of ground ... but what happens when you lose that first round and you're playing with an opponent who also has a good deck that looks very similar to yours and knows how to keep the lead? You basically have to get lucky in some fashion. That certainly can and does happen, but I prefer to have more control.

If you have an Attack type, while there would still be various factors such as luck and player skill/knowledge involved (on both sides), you are definitely in the drivers seat to a higher degree because your ability to score 2 Points intentionally/efficiently against a wider range of opponents is so much greater.

Scoring two points is a huge deal. Score two points twice in a row? The match is basically over. And the beauty is that there is a good chance you'll have multiple chances to do this since your opponent will only get 1 Point if you fail unless you self-KO with contact. I’ve gone down 0-3 and 0-4 a few times and came back to win because I was using Attack. If you’re down 0-4 in a Deck Format match (assuming the 4 points weren’t flukey wins) and have no Attack types, good luck coming back from that. But if you have an Attack type? It never feels out of reach. Especially in a metagame where most people are playing Stamina, having skill with Attack can really give you the edge.

However, I realize that this does take a lot of confidence and belief in yourself. Even I get nervous, and that contributes to why I've gone down 0-3 or 0-4 sometimes before coming back to win the match. So, I’m not saying everyone should drop everything and start using it because you have to use what works for you … but it’s worth putting in the work to improve.

To me, in addition to the practice I’ve done, my experience watching great players like 1234beyblade and players in Japan last year wielding Xtreme’ combinations has really contributed to changing my perspective on Attack in Beyblade Burst right now.

Even Attack combinations using things like Hunter’ and Destroy’ are viable too depending on the situation.

There’s no question that Attack could–and should–be better (as we’ve seen in Burst Classic so far), but it’s definitely still viable for standard Burst Format if my tournament results are any indication.

With Xtreme’ having been re-released recently, hopefully we’ll start to see more people using Attack in tournaments soon.
[Image: CpoXbhT.jpg]

IT'S TIME TO RIP IT! AGAIN - 5/4/2019
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Classic Format

1st: Kei
Acid Anubis Gravity Revolve
Deathscyther Heavy Revolve
Odin Yell Zephyr’
Zillion Zeus Gravity Zeta’
Victory Valkyrie Heavy Xtreme’

2nd: Newtype
Wolborg Yell Eternal

3rd: BladerBeast
Acid Anubis Knuckle Revolve
Dragoon Fantom Yell Eternal
Odin Knuckle Revolve (Deck Format Finals Only)

Read IT'S TIME TO RIP IT! AGAIN Tournament Report Here
Days of Dash
London, UK - 04/05/19

1st - ~Mana~
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Planet
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Xtreme'
Roktavor Central Accel
Valkyrie Knuckle Zeta'
Valkyrie Spread Zeta'
Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Orbit (Deck Format Only)
Deathscyther Heavy Charge

2nd - Ultra
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Planet
Kaiser Kerbeus Spread Orbit (Deck Format Only)
Beast Behemoth Heavy Xtreme'

3rd - Basedsamuraij
Acid Anubis Gravity Orbit
Deathscyther Knuckle Revolve
Deathscyther Spread Revolve
Kaiser Kerbeus Gravity Orbit (Deck Format Only)
Kaiser Kerbeus Spread Orbit
Neptune Spread Revolve
Neptune Yell Eternal
Odin Heavy Defense
Valkyrie Quarter Reboot
Valkyrie Spread Zeta'
EMPIRE CITY STRIKES BACK! - 04/05/19
Brooklyn, New York - Burst Standard Format

1st - Ardmore Bladers

Hell Salamander 10Proof Atomic (Deck Format Only)
Perfect Phoenix Outer Xtend+ (Deck Format Only)
Spryzen Requiem 00 Expand Bearing (Deck Format Only)
Perfect Phoenix 00 Cross Xtend+ (Group Stage Only)


2nd - CitrusNinja3

Cho Z Achilles 00 Proof Destroy (Deck Format Only)
Cho Z Spriggan Sting Bearing (Deck Format Only)
Cho Z Spriggan 0Bump Bearing (Group Stage Only)


3rd - supremeboss57

Perfect Phoenix 7 Glaive Atomic
Cho Z Spriggan 13 Flow Xtend+ (Deck Format Only)
Something tells me extend+ is getting to be more and more useful as time plays out
(May. 20, 2019  1:37 AM)LegendV3 Wrote: Something tells me extend+ is getting to be more and more useful as time plays out
Huh...Its been top tier the moment it was released.