Yeah, 超S is certainly good. No question about that. My question was mainly meant to pose the question as to whether it is the 'best'.
超S has the advantage of being able to be launched hard with burst stoppers, but to me this is not particularly valuable when I consider that generally speaking it has lost to aH, hS, and pP in my testing in both opposite and same spin when all else is equal (although, some of this was right when it came out and my testing wasn't super comprehensive so I could be wrong). In Japan and other Asian countries where you are allowed to switch spin directions I understand why it would be used, but for WBO, I've struggled to find where it would fit in.
That's not to say it can't be used–since obviously it can–but just that maybe it isn't at the top of top tier.
But yeah, Xt+ combos in general (whether it be with aH, pP, hS, 超S) are all pretty safe bets for the first stage in particular. Although, it's dicey for me in later rounds when you're playing against other top players; sometimes it feels pointless to go for something so obvious when you know there is a high chance your opponent will pick something similar. At that point, the risk/reward of using an Attack type in the first stage changes, I think. Especially if you're already basically guaranteed a spot in the finals (depending on the format) and because of the 2 point Burst rule for first stage.
(May. 01, 2019 2:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: I was very fortunate not to encounter any forms of Longinus, Hell Salamander, or other Geist Fafnir combos during the first stage, though, I didn't see many of them being used throughout the tournament. Perhaps because most Left-Spin combos tend to lose to Perfect Phoenix, players have shied away from their use of them on account of pP's increasing popularity.
Yeah, that's a good point regarding pP against left-spin Layers (although maybe Wizard Fafnir will change this). To me though, that also indicates a stronger case for using Attack if you know that right-spin is going to be even more common.
(May. 01, 2019 2:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: During finals, CzS.10S.Xt+ was just used to outspin Perfect Phoenix Outer Xtend+ and whatever other non-bearing, Right-Spin combos I encountered.
Oh, interesting. I see a lot of people using Ωuter on pP, but I've been sticking with Core Disk + Cross. I feel like it's better for LAD that way (don't quote me on that lol ... need to test more), so I wonder if pP using Ωuter helped 超S win.
(May. 01, 2019 2:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: Archer Hercules Blitz Bearing beat all non-bearing, Left-Spin combos, and Perfect Phoenix 0Proof Atomic covered pretty much everything else. With these three combos, I felt I had every major threat covered save for maybe hS._W/T/L.Br, but even CzS.10S.Xt+ in Left-Spin might have been able to destabilize a combo like that enough to make it scrape and lose by OS or KO. It would seem in the absence of other heavy Left-Spin Layers created by pP, CzS may now have room to shine, lol.
I think I also heard a little comment from someone after the event who was disappointed about this, but yes, I didn't use any pure Attack types or hybrids this time around. I was a bit disappointed with myself for this too, but I've come to the conclusion that Attack's just not a consistent enough strategy to be viable for competitive use in Burst anymore. Until we get a Layer with the weight, teeth, and shape necessary to cleanly and consistently KO the likes of pP and other Left-Spin threats, I can't see myself ever using dedicated Attack types in Burst competitions again. Maybe I'm actually just a scrub who needs to get good, but for now, I don't see a reason to play so riskily when I'd be more likely to win just using anyone of the other combos from my deck. :shrug:
I don't think anyone should ever feel bad for not using Attack to win an event. The point of a tournament is to win, and you did that! If people don't want to use what wins, then that's on them.
That being said, I would tend to disagree with your assessment of Attack as it stands currently in regular Burst Format. In first stage I can understand the apprehension, but in the final stage it is absolutely viable and consistent if you "get good" (I hate to put it this way, but that's what you said haha). I keep saying this and I feel like I've been on an island almost by myself on this issue for a while, but Xtreme' really changed the game in this regard. Attack went from being basically useless to competitively viable because of it. All of my tournament wins recently have been thanks in part to Attack combinations, and the only match I've lost recently (at A NEW BEYGINNING versus OldSchool) was because I decided to try something different and not use a real Attack type in my Deck for one match.
Using a Deck of only stamina types might seem like a good idea as by including three different Stamina Drivers like Xt+, Br, and At with varying spin directions does allow you to cover a lot of ground ... but what happens when you lose that first round and you're playing with an opponent who also has a good deck that looks very similar to yours and knows how to keep the lead? You basically have to get lucky in some fashion. That certainly can and does happen, but I prefer to have more control.
If you have an Attack type, while there would still be various factors such as luck and player skill/knowledge involved (on both sides), you are definitely in the drivers seat to a higher degree because your ability to score 2 Points intentionally/efficiently against a wider range of opponents is so much greater.
Scoring two points is a huge deal. Score two points twice in a row? The match is basically over. And the beauty is that there is a good chance you'll have multiple chances to do this since your opponent will only get 1 Point if you fail unless you self-KO with contact. I’ve gone down 0-3 and 0-4 a few times and came back to win because I was using Attack. If you’re down 0-4 in a Deck Format match (assuming the 4 points weren’t flukey wins) and have no Attack types, good luck coming back from that. But if you have an Attack type? It never feels out of reach. Especially in a metagame where most people are playing Stamina, having skill with Attack can really give you the edge.
However, I realize that this does take a lot of confidence and belief in yourself. Even I get nervous, and that contributes to why I've gone down 0-3 or 0-4 sometimes before coming back to win the match. So, I’m not saying everyone should drop everything and start using it because you have to use what works for you … but it’s worth putting in the work to improve.
To me, in addition to the practice I’ve done, my experience watching great players like 1234beyblade and players in Japan last year wielding Xtreme’ combinations has really contributed to changing my perspective on Attack in Beyblade Burst right now.
Even Attack combinations using things like Hunter’ and Destroy’ are viable too depending on the situation.
There’s no question that Attack could–and should–be better (as we’ve seen in Burst Classic so far), but it’s definitely still viable for standard Burst Format if my tournament results are any indication.
With Xtreme’ having been re-released recently, hopefully we’ll start to see more people using Attack in tournaments soon.
Read My WBO 10th Anniversary Interview Series
HIGH PARK THROWDOWN 10 – July 14, 2018 [MFB/BST]
another day, another bey – June 10, 2018 [BST]
BEYBLADE NORTH 2018 – May 25 & 26, 2018 [MFL/BST]
Beyblade Zone – May 12, 2018 [BST]
Z Comes Before A – April 28, 2018 [BST]
SUPER Z, SUPER FUN – March 31, 2018 [BST]
TO BURST OR NOT TO BURST 2 – March 17, 2018 [BST]
Kei vs. The World: The Wakanda Trials – February 17, 2018 [BST]
BEYBALDE TOURNAMENT – August 27, 2017 [BST]
WELCOME TO A&C GAMES VI – December 17, 2017 [BST]
WELCOME TO A&C GAMES – November 25, 2017 [BST]
Kei vs. The World: NYC – October 8, 2017 [BST]
Wait, what? This isn't High Park... – August 13, 2017 [BST]
Rowdy in the Dish 2 & PLASTIC’S NOT DEAD! 4 - July 29, 2017 [BST/PLA]
HIGH PARK THROWDOWN 9 - July 16, 2017 [MFB]
Rowdy in the Dish - July 9, 2017 [BST]
U Wot m8?! LMAO’s Burstday Beynanza! - June 24, 2017 [BST]
MORE GRIP! MORE RIP! - June 18, 2017 [Hasbro BST]
BEYBLADE NORTH 2017 - May 26–28, 2017 [TMB/BST/MFL]
RATHER LOST LONGINUS - May 13, 2017 [BST]
Hasbro Bursts RARELY Onto the Scene - April 23, 2017 [Hasbro BST]
LIVE ACTION REBOOT - April 15, 2017 [BST]
JORMUNGAND JAILBREAK - March 25, 2017 [BST]
WELCOME TO A&C GAMES III - February 18, 2017 [BST]
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MFB/Team/HMS BeyBattle Revolution @ Anime North 2015 - May 22–24, 2015 [MFB/TMM/HMS]
BEY OR DIE - September 27, 2014 [TMM]