I agree.

As said before, all that happens is that TT keeps on releasing better and better parts, which force you to buy them. If TT wouldn't had released all those after earth, it would have been a good choice. Now, when there's new parts, since they outclass the old parts, your parts become useless and you have to buy more to 'keep up' with the metagame.

Sorry if that didn't make sense, because I couldn't come up with anything good.

I finally have a reason for posting here: Diablo is plain ridiculous.

It may just be me, but TT is forcing that abomination to be good by making it a mammoth weight. The entire thing looks like a jumble of disgusting designs made by 4 year olds each adding on a bit more ridiculous as the sketch goes down the line of TT design team. Comprised of 4 year olds. Scribbling idiocy.

It just can't be right. Totally forced.

TT: What are you doing, bro?

I agree, With the plethora of beyblades used to make this it will most likely become unbalanced and end up like a 2nd heavier basalt. The recoil will be tremendous and paired with the BD and MF-H It will be over 70 Grams. Attack and stamina will be useless =/

>Recoil will be tremendous
>attack will be useless

Wat

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I cant really understand why people want to win. This metagame is forcing me to buy the new beys just to keep up. I cant stress it enough that people have a thirst to win. Its disapointing that i need to waste my money just to get a CHANCE of winning againts my friends.

I cant afford beys alot because of my parrents smoking problem, so i really just want to set this straight,

Dont win so you can win, do it for the thrill of playing it.

I cant really understand why people want to win. This metagame is forcing me to buy the new beys just to keep up. I cant stress it enough that people have a thirst to win. Its disapointing that i need to waste my money just to get a CHANCE of winning againts my friends.

I cant afford beys alot because of my parrents smoking problem, so i really just want to set this straight,

Dont win so you can win, do it for the thrill of playing it.

They do win for the thrill of winning, but this is just a natural reflex, you have a thirst for winning and being successful. If you did not have a thirst to win yourself you wouldn't be complaining about if but that's just my opinion.
I also agree with Jan, when basalt was released we looked to new releases to defeat this bey. Now we relent new beys releases because we have to purchase them, the community seems to have done a complete backflip on it's opinions and interests.
We can't complain about new releases, the beys that rule the meta game shape and advance the metagame.

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http://spinjitsu-masters.forumotion.com/
Giraton's Lego Ninjago webforum

I agree, TheInGreek. And Kbuno. And Yamislayer. And Lord Wolfblade, in his most recent post at least.

I still long for the days of Earth being a viable choice.

As do I.

EPIC WALL OF TEXT (Click to View)

The game has been TOO focused on "keeping up with the Jonses" and not focused enough on "keeping up with Einstein" and "keeping up with Tiger." I thought Beyblade was about skill, science and creativity, not just buying new stuff because it utterly pwns your pre-Maximum Series/pre-4D even if the new stuff in question is put in a merely decent (compared to other 4D system combos) combo. It reminds me of Bakugan, where they upped G-Power until you can't even use the much less ugly, more unique NV and earlier Bakugan. Instead of just pulling weights higher and higher, and making undefeatably heavy (except by each other) ubertanks, TT could've just added more possibilities and behaviors to the MFB metagame without rendering almost all old parts obsolete. Depending on who you ask, the turning point was either Basalt Horogium or Gravity Perseus, but after the Maximum Series, the metagame was shaken to its core, and it was all of the sudden just about getting the new so-and-so as well as so-and-so to make so-and-so combo that defeats all so-and-so combos before it. The only counters to those supercombos are generally useless in every other respect, and anyway often also use new parts, so most people just use versions of those specific combos, resulting in often boring mirror battles. All unorthodox or slightly less up-to date bey users are crushed by the rich kids with their shiny new expensive beys from Japan whose parts for the most part had just the week before been released, leaving no space for true invention once the good combos had been found for the beys in question. In the next spoiler is a better scenario, that I wish had happened instead(assuming it's even possible and not a load of nonsense).

Possibly nonsense; nonsense or not ANOTHER EPIC WALL OF TEXT (Click to View)

After our last "proper" bey in our real life was released(either Grand Cetus or Flame Byxis, depending on who you ask) Takara was trying to find a way to keep sales up. They created several prototypes of different beys that were much heavier: Hell Cerberus and Basalt Horologium. After testing, they found these concepts gamebreaking and overpowered, so they were recreated: the Basalt wheel was made to have six thinner-than-originally-planned parts, like a rounder, slightly heavier six-part Earth with a staircase inside, and Hell Cerberus' spin track, Boost Disk 145, became WR145, a ring as wide as Hell (no pun intended), but with a thickness of D125, and three attachment "spokes," much like WD14(3?)5. The next beys released, instead of being heavier than anything before and overcomplicated, had dynamic, multi-mode CWs, MWs (but as one pre-assembled, locked-together piece, not two pieces) and spin tracks that were actually good in all modes, even if some more than others. Performance tips continually were created, and new top-tier combos were found constantly, oh yes, they were, but they were just barely top-tier, and if one was skilled, they could beat these combos easily, even with only the original HWS FBs, CWs, MWs, tracks, and tips available to them. RF was still in the running, along with atkCS, LF, XF, WF, and the rest of 'em, to the present and beyond. As was WB, with defCS, RS, and so on, and WD with SD, and so on, and Ray up with the weakened Hell, and so on and so forth, etc.

And as new combos are created, old combos are retested against them and their power rediscovered, and thus the Cycle goes round, as if it in itself is a great Beyblade, spinning in the stadium of the MFB Metagame.

Excuse the long post, and I must admit that I am only 12 and a half, and I am but a somewhat naiive fly on the wall, and have never been to a tournament, though I have heard all about them via this forum, and watched the Customizations forum as it aged, from a bit after the beginning of Hasbro MFB, before leaving for a while at about the time Big Bang Peggy and LDD were becoming widely available, and Fang Leone was first being tested. Now tonight coming back, I'm seeing that the 4D system made a huge mess of things. I just hope that at least some of this post makes sense, lol.



tl;dr: Beyblade has become about buying, and buying alone, not at all about actually being creative or skillful.

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Yeah I recustomized again... Bakushin Capricorn WD145LF this time.

IKR! Beyblade is having fun and being creative. Your combo is your combo and nobody elses.

Beyblade is not about buying and buying alone. That sort of absolutist statement doesn't advance the conversation, nor does it reflect tournament reality.

IKR! Beyblade is having fun and being creative. Your combo is your combo and nobody elses.

I agree with this post, there should be a range of different and unique combos at tournament that are all capable of winning against eachother, where skill is the key factor in winning. All the combos these days are the same thing, in Melbourne Tournaments attack powerhouses like vari and blitz own the show. Beyblade should have a multitude of winning combos, not just 'buy the newest bey and win'.

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http://spinjitsu-masters.forumotion.com/
Giraton's Lego Ninjago webforum

The only reason attack is dominating your metagame is that no one is playing defense. It's like playing rock, paper, scissors - except that everyone is playing scissors, two people are playing rock and no one is playing paper.

You need some strategy here - and I'm not hearing any...

I personally love defense. I love the name and I love it when your enemy cannot harm you at all,and you have all the time in the world to take hits and counter attack. It's also fun to laugh in your opponent's face when they try to knock you out but get knocked out instead(my MF-H basalt kerbecs BD145 CS KO'd Lightning L-Drago 90 RF with BD145. It got destabilized,scrap the ground in a uppercut-x-counter attack formation and smacked L-Drago.epic win)

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It will be over 70 Grams. Attack and stamina will be useless =/

We think sooo different hahah.
The first thing thought was: a 70 grams with rf charging you like a buffalo,
plus the shape of that metal wheel seems to offer some decent smash.
We have a giant boulder with smash properties raging on your bey, lolz.



Anyway, guys, I didn't expect my thread to go this far, thank you everyone!

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Oh Mighty Ocean, guide us as we journey through the darkest pit of night.

"Yamislayer, you are what we call Revolution. Your ideas, threads, often lead to something new, and even if not always successful, It's something that a non-revolutionary mind can't handle"

It will be over 70 Grams. Attack and stamina will be useless =/

We think sooo different hahah.
The first thing thought was: a 70 grams with rf charging you like a buffalo,
plus the shape of that metal wheel seems to offer some decent smash.
We have a giant boulder with smash properties raging on your bey, lolz.



Anyway, guys, I didn't expect my thread to go this far, thank you everyone!

Agreed. I figure that if something is too heavy to interrupt in the first place, it'll make an aggro CS something scary to have. You'd be able to use a non-worn one. Acts like RF, and wears to a defensive part. I do find myself annoyed more at the recent plethora of circles released as MWs. They DO look nice, however.

The only reason attack is dominating your metagame is that no one is playing defense. It's like playing rock, paper, scissors - except that everyone is playing scissors, two people are playing rock and no one is playing paper.

You need some strategy here - and I'm not hearing any...

The winning combos thread clearly states that stamina beys are the most viable option, so us bladers in Melbourne have adapted to counter stamina beys, most if not all stamina types find it very hard to not get k-oed by vari and blitz, defence is still used but not to the same extent as other regions, at the tournament i went, very little people that i saw used basalt so in part you post is correct.

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http://spinjitsu-masters.forumotion.com/
Giraton's Lego Ninjago webforum

Nah, they're just the most common. Attack used to be the best in the Vulcan days in theory, but Earth was safer. Attack has always been relatively rare to use outside of Italy. The easier to use combos are usually the most common. 10 Basalt BD145MBs are more likely to win a tournament than one Variares ATK combo. The sheer volume of a easy combo being used is enough to overshadow the usefulness of others that aren't used for fear of a self-KO.

Beyblade is not about buying and buying alone. That sort of absolutist statement doesn't advance the conversation, nor does it reflect tournament reality.

True.
But that is probably one of the central ideas of this thread, as I have understood.
Beyblade is about-
Getting new parts --> Making a Combo --> Practicing with that Combo --> Playing with it in a tourney --> Winning/Losing.

As the very first step towards the hobby of beyblading is getting new parts(indirectly- buying), it may be considered why people end up discussing about that here.
And, because the thread says that one has to get(i.e. buy) new parts continuously to remain Competitive, people do end up thinking that Beyblade is buying alone; which is not true, as you said.

Temporal- The most common combos in a tournament are the ones which are easy to use, and at the same time top tier in their class. One may not expect to win with an easy to use Poison now... I think you missed to say that, though you knew about it. Then again, its common sense...
As for the volume, yes. In a tourney having 11 participants, 10 have a Basalt while one uses VariAres. Considering only participants(excluding the beys they use) Chances of winning the tourney, are equal for all of them. But now, considering the type of beys being used, chances of a Basalt combo placing first, is probably 10:1. I hope you understand what I mean to say.
Defense and Stamina have been easy to use, and the top tier combos from each department are used for tourneys. In recent times, Defense did get a bit trickier and unpredictable; thanks to the varying conditions of CS. Hence, stamina became the most reliable option. Luckily, stamina also saw some superb new releases, which made it even the more powerful. Stamina parts got stronger and stronger, but were still easy to use. The design though, was hardly inspiring... Almost every circular wheel became great for stamina...
On the other hand, Attack got stronger too. Blitz and VariAres are extremely dangerous. But skill is most important... With heavier wheels in fashion, attack had to get heavier too. As attack got heavier, they got tougher to control. I may be certain that if ever Diablo finds any use for Attack, that 'buffalo' would be tougher to control than a VariAres.

No wonder I still propose an OU(overused) and UU(underused) Tier List to comply with such cases...

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

It will be over 70 Grams. Attack and stamina will be useless =/

We think sooo different hahah.
The first thing thought was: a 70 grams with rf charging you like a buffalo,
plus the shape of that metal wheel seems to offer some decent smash.
We have a giant boulder with smash properties raging on your bey, lolz.

So if you do manage to effectively use it in attack than alot of the matches will look something like Diablo Nemesis _____ RF VS Diablo Nemesis _____ CS. And i'm sure a stamina bey couldn't handle " 70 grams with rf charging you like a buffalo" so to be competitive, you would need this part.

Now if i didn't own some good parts i would quit beyblade, but no, i dont because bladers such as I want to continue our comppetitive burning passion lit. So therefore, if i win or lose, i can just keep practicing to hone my combos unique style of battling and try again next time.(Sorry if i sound like a n00b)

Its all fun and games until a new bey is realesed. lol

Temporal- The most common combos in a tournament are the ones which are easy to use, and at the same time top tier in their class. One may not expect to win with an easy to use Poison now... I think you missed to say that, though you knew about it. Then again, its common sense...
As for the volume, yes. In a tourney having 11 participants, 10 have a Basalt while one uses VariAres. Considering only participants(excluding the beys they use) Chances of winning the tourney, are equal for all of them. But now, considering the type of beys being used, chances of a Basalt combo placing first, is probably 10:1. I hope you understand what I mean to say.
Defense and Stamina have been easy to use, and the top tier combos from each department are used for tourneys. In recent times, Defense did get a bit trickier and unpredictable; thanks to the varying conditions of CS. Hence, stamina became the most reliable option. Luckily, stamina also saw some superb new releases, which made it even the more powerful. Stamina parts got stronger and stronger, but were still easy to use. The design though, was hardly inspiring... Almost every circular wheel became great for stamina...
On the other hand, Attack got stronger too. Blitz and VariAres are extremely dangerous. But skill is most important... With heavier wheels in fashion, attack had to get heavier too. As attack got heavier, they got tougher to control. I may be certain that if ever Diablo finds any use for Attack, that 'buffalo' would be tougher to control than a VariAres.

No wonder I still propose an OU(overused) and UU(underused) Tier List to comply with such cases...

Yeah, I kinda over-looked the idea of a bunch of bad combos. But outside of that, it seems like we agree. Diablo should be a real force for those who can control it.

I remember the day I got my Grand Cetus and my bro got a Basalt Horogium(Twisted Tempo). We did solo spins, and when we battled, needless to say, Basalt won. I battled him many more times(a lot like that episode of Metal Masters(and now my Dads calling me Masamune)) and, yep you guessed it, Basalt won the majority. My RS ended up pretty worn, and I would spend a lot of time trying to beat this seemingly invisible Bey(crazy right?). It had convinced me that my skill was lacking(dont worry, Im over that now) and so I continued trying to beat it, usually to no avail. Yeah I live in the U.S. so no Metal Fury, no Phantom Orion, no Beat Lynx or Blitz Unicorno. Ive pretty much gotten over this stuff now, and beaten the Bey my fair share of times, but I mean... I completely agree with this thread. And if even heavier Beys are to come, then I really was going nuts. I mean, what if a tournament comes to my area, and I end up facing a guy with a Diablo Nemesis? Hopefully Ill have a Phantom Orion by then.

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Phantom Orion is one of the last beys I'd want to be using against Diablo, considering Phantom is pretty easy to KO and looking at Diablo, it's probably going to be an attack wheel.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Arupaeo spoke about this earlier, but it should be reinforced. I want to make it clear: though the number of competitive useful parts has dwindled, the game itself is nevertheless still as fun as it used to be. Nothing is unbeatable.

Really, there has never been any such thing as "creativity" in Beyblade; the best parts are inevitably found and used to death. There is nothing entirely original in Beyblade. Everything derives from what came before it. Niche combos can be used, but they're almost always combos that come to be generally accepted by the community on some level. You can kid yourself and believe that using funky combos just because you feel like it are good, but you'll very likely lose to those who use something that has been tested extensively throughout the community. On the other hand, if you define "creativity" as "the ability for more than one or two Wheels to be successful in a particular type", then yes, it has become much more difficult to be "creative", and not owning the newest parts does indeed put you at a large disadvantage.

But make no mistake, skill still–and always has–played a huge role in Beyblade. Factors outside of our control will always exist, but anyone who has ever competed in a tournament knows that simply owning the best new parts is not enough. You have to understand them, you have to understand how other parts work with them, you have to understand launch techniques, you have to understand the use of deception, and most of all, you have to understand your opponent.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

Arupaeo spoke about this earlier, but it should be reinforced. I want to make it clear: though the number of competitive useful parts has dwindled, the game itself is nevertheless still as fun as it used to be. Nothing is unbeatable.

Really, there has never been any such thing as "creativity" in Beyblade; the best parts are inevitably found and used to death. There is nothing entirely original in Beyblade. Everything derives from what came before it. Niche combos can be used, but they're almost always combos that come to be generally accepted by the community on some level. You can kid yourself and believe that using funky combos just because you feel like it are good, but you'll very likely lose to those who use something that has been tested extensively throughout the community. On the other hand, if you define "creativity" as "the ability for more than one or two Wheels to be successful in a particular type", then yes, it has become much more difficult to be "creative", and not owning the newest parts does indeed put you at a large disadvantage.

But make no mistake, skill still–and always has–played a huge role in Beyblade. Factors outside of our control will always exist, but anyone who has ever competed in a tournament knows that simply owning the best new parts is not enough. You have to understand them, you have to understand how other parts work with them, you have to understand launch techniques, you have to understand the use of deception, and most of all, you have to understand your opponent.

Agree. This thread is too much general in my opinion.
This "era" is characterized from two faces of the same medals: if it's true that to be competitive you need the newest releases, it's not true that now skills are useless. I can win because i'm better than other players,not because i have the newest Beys.
If i play Variares CH120 RF without my best shoot,thanks to its 0 stamina i can lose against the most outclassed combo ever created. You are generalizing too much for me,you're thinking as all of us are at the same level with the same knowledge and the same skills.
Completely uncorrect.
The game is going towards an evolution of weight,that makes the oldest and newest components outclassed IF you have the right skills.

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Melseth,il diavolo che si annida nel profondo della mia mente... mi spinge alla distruzione e alla pazzia...

My Plastics/HMSs/MFBs Collection! (updated on 5/28/2012)

Great post, Galaxy. That said, if you do have the skill, with old parts, it will still be difficult to win. Before, if you had the skill, you may have still been able to do well with Pegasis when other people may have already gotten Vulcan.


I think that, if all MFB from this point forward are going to be in the same weight class as VariAres, Duo, etc., then we may not have anything to worry about. Before RS was released, the game had been evolving for two years already. So of course there would have been a wide variety of usable Wheels to choose from. It's been a year and two/three months since RS was released, less than that since BD145 was released, and even less since the 4D System was introduced. So perhaps over the next 10 months or so, we'll find that many more VariAres or Phantom-esque Wheels have been released (which is both a scary and good thought!).

TAKARA-TOMY could have spent a longer period of time building up to things like what we saw in the Maximum Series and what we're now seeing in the 4D System, but as long as they're careful with where they go from here, it's possible that we could see the variety we crave return.

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Bakugan is a game that rely on numbers alone, and therefore every move is absolute and predictable, beyblade, in the other hand, is a game ruled by the laws of physics, where no single variable is absolute.
The recent increase in weight in the new beyblades allow them to increase their stability and spin time, but the same increase can backfire in the decrease of movement speed (their position is far more predictable), the increase of tension over the performance tip, and i noticed heavier beyblades have a tougher time to regain balance (not sure if that's a fact).

The game do have a huge space for creativity, scientist-like creativity, maybe, but still do. It would be easier to notice it if the battle arenas weren't all alike. Change the angle of the curvatures, put obstacles, ramps maybe, make the player think.

All the beyblades usually have the same size, so, analize the advantages in the lack of weight, improve on them, analize the weakness in overweight, and them adjust your shooting technique to counter it. Usually works for me.