No, its not necessary that TT made it so that it would be beatable.
Example: Libra. TT virtually admitted that releasing Libra was a mistake by putting a weight limit of 47g meaning that Libra can only be used with 2g tracks (that too without a metal face), in some tourneys they banned Metal Face + Libra and in some cases they banned the Libra wheel directly.

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Credit to Electric

BurnPhoenix
Ok.But if you think about what you just stated it's irrelevent.Because if you read the whole thread you'd know that the problem isn't about Basalt being undefeatable.That isn't the problem.What the problem is that we don't the Basalt wheel problem to be magnafied.Like you go to a tournament and see numerous basalt mwheels.What we don't want happening is that a lot of inexperienced bladers taking the easy way out and ussing basalt.

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I understand that amateurs always look for the easy way to go, by attempting to copy combos without researching in many cases. But If we limit amateurs to what they can use ( directly excluding: basalt, libra, scythe, and Beat) , then how is it fair for us to use them and shun them?

Although they should not deserve to use them, TT made beys for everyone to use, specifically 8-11 year olds, which in most cases puts you in the amateur category.

If I had to choose though, I still would not ban basalt, because that would just mean that we were willing to take a step back defense wise.

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Its not necessary if you're an 8-11 year old then you're an amateur.

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Credit to Electric

Blitz Unicorno
I say this is true.I've only been to one tourny so far.But i only seen 2 basalts there.But it was pretty strong bladers using them like Deikailo and The Problem.

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@ Blitz Unicorno,


Although they should not deserve to use them, TT made beys for everyone to use, specifically 8-11 year olds, which in most cases puts you in the amateur category.

I didn't say that instantly puts you into that category, I said that that was the main age group TT was aiming for, although they did extend the age limit in tournaments to 14 at max.

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You guys are totally getting it wrong on why libra was restricted in Japan. Indeed there was a weight limit and it was somewhat hard to defeat BUT the other issue with it was it was due to safety reasons.

Our local WBBA organisers made a point that libra from BB-18 was strictly not allowed and only the BB-96 variation was. This was purely for safety reasons. Do not blindly drag libra being restricted into the mix without knowing what exactly was going on with it. Its not just purely because it was heavy. Weight limits has been there since plastics. The real issue with it was safety. Comparing the situation with Basalt is just blind speculation. Basalt did not have a safety issue (unless you intend to throw it). Libra did. The MW was prone to breaking without being reinforced. In fact even now, its still is prone to breaking (BB-96 variation). Putting it with Metal face or with high recoil tracks is just asking for someone to get injured. Even with a fence, it doesnt help if the part flies upwards.

WBBA had their own way of restricting certain parts from becoming overwhelming. Tornado and Extreme stadium + Deck battle on certain stages was one. BD145 or 230 would just die under these conditions. Deck battle also restrict by not always allowing the user to pull out his or her desirable bey all the time. In other words, TT and WBBA already more or less have their means to control Basalt. It is overused, just not to the extent it was uncontrollable...

Honestly speaking, I may not have participated in a single WBO tournament, but I have my fair share of WBBA tournaments experience to know that these countermeasures are working. Basalt is definitely over used, but not to the extent that it kills everything.

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The Beyblade is round.
Anything can happen. =D

You guys are totally getting it wrong on why libra was restricted in Japan. Indeed there was a weight limit and it was somewhat hard to defeat BUT the other issue with it was it was due to safety reasons.

Our local WBBA organisers made a point that libra from BB-18 was strictly not allowed and only the BB-96 variation was. This was purely for safety reasons. Do not blindly drag libra being restricted into the mix without knowing what exactly was going on with it. Its not just purely because it was heavy. Weight limits has been there since plastics. The real issue with it was safety. Comparing the situation with Basalt is just blind speculation. Basalt did not have a safety issue (unless you intend to throw it). Libra did. The MW was prone to breaking without being reinforced. In fact even now, its still is prone to breaking (BB-96 variation). Putting it with Metal face or with high recoil tracks is just asking for someone to get injured. Even with a fence, it doesnt help if the part flies upwards.

WBBA had their own way of restricting certain parts from becoming overwhelming. Tornado and Extreme stadium + Deck battle on certain stages was one. BD145 or 230 would just die under these conditions. Deck battle also restrict by not always allowing the user to pull out his or her desirable bey all the time. In other words, TT and WBBA already more or less have their means to control Basalt. It is overused, just not to the extent it was uncontrollable...

Honestly speaking, I may not have participated in a single WBO tournament, but I have my fair share of WBBA tournaments experience to know that these countermeasures are working. Basalt is definitely over used, but not to the extent that it kills everything.

Sorry, what's a deck battle?

This is all very interesting. Thanks!

specifically 8-11 year olds, which in most cases puts you in the amateur category.

Hydreigon is 11 and Ultimate KCPJ is around that as well. Shadow X 9365 is also around that age. They are not amateurs. Through tournament experience, they've climbed the ranks, just like every other blader in their point range.

To discriminate based on age is pointless. There MANY young bladers who are much more than amateurs. Beyjun would be the best example.

You guys are totally getting it wrong on why libra was restricted in Japan. Indeed there was a weight limit and it was somewhat hard to defeat BUT the other issue with it was it was due to safety reasons.

Our local WBBA organisers made a point that libra from BB-18 was strictly not allowed and only the BB-96 variation was. This was purely for safety reasons. Do not blindly drag libra being restricted into the mix without knowing what exactly was going on with it. Its not just purely because it was heavy. Weight limits has been there since plastics. The real issue with it was safety. Comparing the situation with Basalt is just blind speculation. Basalt did not have a safety issue (unless you intend to throw it). Libra did. The MW was prone to breaking without being reinforced. In fact even now, its still is prone to breaking (BB-96 variation). Putting it with Metal face or with high recoil tracks is just asking for someone to get injured. Even with a fence, it doesnt help if the part flies upwards.

WBBA had their own way of restricting certain parts from becoming overwhelming. Tornado and Extreme stadium + Deck battle on certain stages was one. BD145 or 230 would just die under these conditions. Deck battle also restrict by not always allowing the user to pull out his or her desirable bey all the time. In other words, TT and WBBA already more or less have their means to control Basalt. It is overused, just not to the extent it was uncontrollable...

Honestly speaking, I may not have participated in a single WBO tournament, but I have my fair share of WBBA tournaments experience to know that these countermeasures are working. Basalt is definitely over used, but not to the extent that it kills everything.

Huh, so this is the history behind Libra...

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Zodiacs
Tournament in Philly! Join us now!

3 different beys, 3 different metal wheels. Same track/tip/Face/CW allowed. Depending on the country, sometimes as long as the metal wheel are different its fine. Others required you to have 3 different types (stamina/attack/def).

Organisers here practice best of 5 rounds, the last bey you pull will be used throughout. 2 points for knock out, 1 for OS or self defeat. First to hit 5 points wins. This seriously encouraged more attack based style since 2 points early will give you a lead.

Basalt is more or less a staple. But if you got paired up with a wrong combo lets say... An out of box Earth Aquila, then its chances of winning is lowered especially in extreme stadium...

Flame Aries
Yeah. Although not explicitly mentioned, they only told us it was "safety" and nothing more. Some of us found it out the hard way after realising parts just flew on hard contact (for the uninforced version)

Edit: forgot to mention, deck battle is random pick from a deck case. Over here its randomised by judges. Basically its just to hide it before selection.

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The Beyblade is round.
Anything can happen. =D

Where are these WBBA tournaments? How many people attend? Is there a website for it?

3 different beys, 3 different metal wheels. Same track/tip/Face/CW allowed. Depending on the country, sometimes as long as the metal wheel are different its fine. Others required you to have 3 different types (stamina/attack/def).

But how do you determine attack, defense, stamina when using anti-meta combos such as L Drago Destroy 230MF or Basalt Kerbecs TH170WF?

2 points for knock out, 1 for OS or self defeat. First to hit 5 points wins. This seriously encouraged more attack based style since 2 points early will give you a lead.

This is what I really think should be pushed. If Basalt is banned, people will just sub it for a different stamina/defense wheel, however, Basalt's stamina can be overcome with an attack type.

Fonspark: But in this case, only the Triple Battle Stadium and BB-10 is legal at WBO tournaments. While I do understand how an Extreme Beystadium can screw with Basalt's wobbling and Stamina in general, and the deck battle thing sounds interesting, I don't know where this is coming from besides clearing up why TT imposed a weight limit. Do you suggest the WBO add "Deck Battles"? If I missed something, please say so, I'm kinda confused here.

Fortunately, 4D beys are still not allowed yet (even asia cup placed a restriction if you see the thread on allowed parts). More or less, Maximum series is still dominating.

And like I mention, 230 just dies... Finals are usually on extreme and tornado. They may be effective on standard attack but none of these. I forgot to mention that deck is random pull while the judge randomise the bey for us.
Type of MW is determined by star rating... Just to point out, Defence star rating actually signifies counter recoil and not taking in hits which explains why loads of supposedly Def MWs has absurd recoil. They're suppose to take hits and send it back.

Edit : If deck based rules were added in, the stalling clause would not be required since you could just hide all your combos in the deck case, let the judge randomise and just choose. That way, if you face an opponent using a combo which surely kills yours, at least you could hope your next pull could save you.

But ultimately its up to the committee to implement. From what I know, WBO rules were long established even before Deck battles were in place. So its hard to say.

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The Beyblade is round.
Anything can happen. =D

WBBA had it right when they applied the deck battle and the points system, ones that I would support fully should WBO consider.

But, the extreme and tornado stadiums are just not good. It requires no skills, and just rely on tiers and luck factor. Even when they use attack stadiums for preliminaries rounds, and extreme/tornado for finals, it's still not a good thing to just rely on luck for the finals. Sure, BD145, and 170+ height would be obliterated in these, but it's goes a little more than that. IIRC, XFs are also not allowed, simply not because it doesn't have a normal release, but it would rule supreme in those stadiums, more so like BD145, and 170+ tracks in attack stadiums.

Where are these WBBA tournaments? How many people attend? Is there a website for it?

3 different beys, 3 different metal wheels. Same track/tip/Face/CW allowed. Depending on the country, sometimes as long as the metal wheel are different its fine. Others required you to have 3 different types (stamina/attack/def).

But how do you determine attack, defense, stamina when using anti-meta combos such as L Drago Destroy 230MF or Basalt Kerbecs TH170WF?

2 points for knock out, 1 for OS or self defeat. First to hit 5 points wins. This seriously encouraged more attack based style since 2 points early will give you a lead.

This is what I really think should be pushed. If Basalt is banned, people will just sub it for a different stamina/defense wheel, however, Basalt's stamina can be overcome with an attack type.

Of course it will. That's the point of the Basalt ban...

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By star value? That sounds...not odd, but simply unfair, I should say? I can't really put it into words. But Gravity is classified under Defense, and we use it for Attack. Same with Leone. And Libra is considered Stamina by Takara Tomy, no? That just seems confusing.

In Japan, Libra was definitely not banned or restricted simply for safety, not at all. And even when BB-96 came out, Libra was still banned in the same way even with the new, reinforced mold. What you were told is a lie ...

Actually extreme and tornado requires a whole different skill set and combos altogether. Its true its luck oriented... But you still need to know what to do to make it be in your favour. Hell Kerbex BD145 WD would still lose to an Earth 90 WD if the disc spinning is spinning against the spin simply because Hell Kerbex in general is too heavy and it stalls the centre disc...

And just to point out, I've made some edits on my previous posts. Please do take note of those.

But I still have to point out once more, Basalt is still overly used just not as bad as WBO's situation I feel... There are some unique counters to Basalt Tanks and 230 tracks here in local wbba tourneys

Kai-V
What I said was definitely not a lie. This was what were we told and what I relate out thats all. Like I said, all the local organisers mentioned to us players is its due to "Safety".

Restrictions which were given out were to BB-18 for us. Not Libra.

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The Beyblade is round.
Anything can happen. =D

And I clearly wrote that you what you were told, not "what you told us", is a lie. I know you are just "passing the note forward" to us, but I am stopping it here and I say it is blatantly a lie.

Bladers have misunderstood the star ratings in the box for a long time. It's a simple way for TT (WBBA) to classify their MWs. A lot different than what regular bladers are used to.

People are starting to figure out what they represent. Maybe Fonspark can explain this better.

I have no idea the reason behind the WBBA's libra ban. I have heard a few things though. Weight and safety are definitely up on the top list.

In Japan, Libra was definitely not banned or restricted simply for safety, not at all. And even when BB-96 came out, Libra was still banned in the same way even with the new, reinforced mold. What you were told is a lie ...

He's from Singapore so they may enforce safety over competitive play, much like Hasbro does with stadiums.

Uwik: On the ratings, maybe, but there are star ratings that claim that Wheels that are normally used for attack are Defense, and so on. Wouldn't it be kinda hard to get around that?

EDIT:...This is happening more and more often. Ninja'd.

The most logical way to explain it would be, Defs rating has more or less represented recoil (or counter force). Its like how VariAres has star rating of 6 =\. Just that its used offensively in this way.

For one, I have to take note of the rating cos thats how our community here actually classifies MWs and parts. Its in our rules/regulations/restrictions.

Kai-V
Point noted.

Edit:
The stars are just used to classify the type, not really shows its strength. Its like how Hell has has 3 for attack and 3 for stamina. It could be used both ways for deck situation. For my country, we only look at the MW types. Stars doesnt really matter. Just pointing out the stars actually means something, in this case, def = counter force/recoil. It would make a whole more sense if its seen this way.

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The Beyblade is round.
Anything can happen. =D

He's from Singapore so they may enforce safety over competitive play, much like Hasbro does with stadiums.

But, from what he said, the WBBA officials there were trying to give a reason for its ban everywhere in the WBBA, not just in Singapore. That is what it sounded like to me, and the fact that the ban was lifted only the second Basalt was made available at the World Hobby Fair before even its release date is all the proof you need to know for sure that TAKARA-TOMY did not ban it over safety, while it may have been part of the decision.

I have been reading all of the posts since my post, and I have to say the passion and spirit of this discussion is what persuaded me to join the WBO in the first place(even though i am still more of a lurker). Deikailo's post about Basalt being more of a mental factor really inspired me. I then went down to my neighbor's house and attained a 75% win rate against his MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS with my MF Screw Unicorno(better than pisces) 85R2F. So could the moderators please change my vote to "Do not change the rules". Thanks in advance.

Basalt does not need to be restricted when we are the ones restricting ourselves.

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Do you live in Washington? Come check this thread out:
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Washington-USA