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[STD] Dragooon BD145GF: Possibly tier-list Worthy?

Poll: Dragoon BD145GF; what do you think about it?

I think it's good, definitely tier-list worthy!
48.28%
14
It's results against Duo stamina aren't that great, whereas it's supposed to do well against right spin stamina. It's good, though.
31.03%
9
Meh, it's a rather risky choice, I don't like it.
20.69%
6
Total: 100% 29 vote(s)
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Jan. 25, 2015  11:21 PM
 
[Image: Dragoon_BD145_GF_Possibly_tier_list_Worthy_1.png]

[STD] Dragooon BD145GF: Possibly tier-list Worthy?
______________________________________________


So, I'm sure a couple of you already know about my love towards Dragooon BD145GF; some of you Toronto Bladers have probably already seen me use it in action! I myself have always got the feels that this spin-equalizing beast is deserving of a spot on the tier-list. That in mind, here are a couple of testings I conducted with Killerken Dragooon BD145GF along with some of its use as a winning combination in tournaments along with my own experiences.

Equipment Used (Click to View)

Versus Stamina (Click to View)

Versus Balance (Click to View)

Versus Defense (Click to View)

Use as a Winning Combination and Tournament Experiences (Click to View)

OVERALL THOUGHTS ON DRAGOOON BD145GF[/size]

So, do I myself think Dragooon BD145GF should be on the tier-list? Well, before, I was initially very confident in this combo, but I'm somewhere in between on it now; it seems to do well against just about everything, except Duo MTSCs; a big part of the competitive Beyblade metagame in terms of stamina. What do you guys think, though?

Thank you all for reading; share your opinions on Dragooon BD145GF if you please! If you also had any experience with the setups or conducted tests yourself, feel free to post them here!
Jan. 25, 2015  11:33 PM
 
This combo is quite interesting. Duo does a half and half job of killing it, but maybe (randkm thought, no meaning) E230/SP230 could help be wobbler-like. Duo Cancer SA165WD does stomp on this and put it through the blender though... I think this combo is ok, but it varies (not too much, pretty frequent though) through combos, but maybe try my (meaningless) random thought as a random try?
EDIT: I think this would need more testing/improvement to be top tier. But I don't have any great parts, but just throw my opinion out there. Smile
Jan. 25, 2015  11:49 PM
 
I'm not too sure whether or whether not SP230 or E230 would be the best alternative; Dragoon plays the biggest of roles in these setups. It would make sense that it has contact with other setups to spin equalize; E230 can do somewhat on the spin-equalizing job, but not as much as Dragoon. Maybe it could be looked into against TH190/230 SD variants, but I don't really know.

In terms of more testings, I think we have way more than enough to determine whether it's tier-list worthy or not. I made a list with all of the Dragoon GF testings out back in September, before these ones were conducted.

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Finding-...ts-quicker

Thank you for your opinion, though, Hato!
Jan. 25, 2015  11:57 PM
 
(Jan. 25, 2015  11:49 PM)Shido Wrote: I'm not too sure whether or whether not SP230 or E230 would be the best alternative; Dragoon plays the biggest of roles in these setups. It would make sense that it has contact with other setups to spin equalize; E230 can do somewhat on the spin-equalizing job, but not as much as Dragoon. Maybe it could be looked into against TH190/230 SD variants, but I don't really know.

In terms of more testings, I think we have way more than enough to determine whether it's tier-list worthy or not. I made a list with all of the Dragoon GF testings out back in September, before these ones were conducted.

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Finding-...ts-quicker

Thank you for your opinion, though, Hato!

Not trying to doubt you or anything since you have more competitive knowledge than me, but I have seen Dragoon 85/LW105 GF's threads and they were good, but I think this one had lower percentages in some (mostly Duo(?)). If Dragoon can't spin steal from Duo, why not crush it with an E230/SP230? Grin

I remembered the testing I mentioned above when you said that. It's true, but Duo is the main counter (well, not always, but some). I think this has potential, but does BD145 scrape? When I put my XF on BD145 while doing some testing in my stadium (not legal for competitive play, but has the same elevation) and it scraped a lot.
Jan. 26, 2015  12:56 AM
 
Oh, I forgot about Genbull Dragoon LW105GF, I really liked it back when the thread for was released. From the testings I did, it did a bit better than Killerken Dragoon BD145GF. That's definitely something to be looked into, too; I'll probably add it to this thread. I'll go ahead and let Time know!

From what I saw, it didn't seem to have any scraping problems, no.
Jan. 26, 2015  1:02 AM
 
(Jan. 26, 2015  12:56 AM)Shido Wrote: Oh, I forgot about Genbull Dragoon LW105GF, I really liked it. back when the thread for it was released. From the testings I did, it did better than Killerken Dragoon BD145GF. That's definitely something to be looked into, too; I'll probably add it to this thread. I'll go ahead and let Time know!

From what I saw, it didn't seem to have any scraping problems, no.

Smug But I like Killerken because of the thickness of it with BD145. I guess do a comparison between them versus Duo Cancer B : D?

Chocked_2 that's surprising..
Jan. 27, 2015  12:57 AM
 
I got first in the event "Raleigh Revival" in January 2014 and I used this combo in the finals.

Try it against some attack types. If you have 2 Wyvangs it would be cool if you could test that against Wyvang Wyvang W145 MF as I lost 2-3 with this combo at a Maryland tournament last Summer. Glad this combo is seeing some use I really feel like this is Top Tier.
Jan. 27, 2015  1:26 AM
 
(Jan. 26, 2015  12:56 AM)Shido Wrote: Oh, I forgot about Genbull Dragoon LW105GF, I really liked it back when the thread for was released. From the testings I did, it did a bit better than Killerken Dragoon BD145GF. That's definitely something to be looked into, too; I'll probably add it to this thread. I'll go ahead and let Time know!

From what I saw, it didn't seem to have any scraping problems, no.

Were you looking for something specific? Also, sniper is in love with this specific variant.
Jan. 27, 2015  1:27 AM
 
Here are some comparison testings I did with a couple of Dragoon GF variants. (Click to View)

Yeah, that last testing was very surprising, I don't know what I did wrong when I initially conducted tests against Duo B:D, like that is a huge change. The results all seem to be rather close, though; maybe those other two Beyblades or ones close to it have some tier-list potential, as well.

I'll try to get some video done against Duo stamina comes the weekend.

@[Thunder Dome] : Awesome, thanks for letting me know, dude. I know the tournament was a year ago, but are you able to remember what it was able to win against? It'd be real helpful if so.

As for testing against Wyvang Wyvang W145MF, for one, I don't own a second Wyvang, so I wouldn't be able to do testing. Dragoon BD145GF also isn't meant to be used against setups like those; it's for again, spin equalizing and to OS right-spin-based stamina, defense and balance - well, non-aggro balance.
Jan. 27, 2015  1:54 AM
 
It beat Phantom Cygnus 85 MF 3-0 in the finals.
Jan. 27, 2015  4:01 AM
 
Nice results Shido! And yah, at Super Yolo Swag Tournament of Doom, BladerLight used Killerken Dragooon BD145GF and won against Duo Cancer SA165 [Normal] EWD. It was pretty crazy.

After looking at these results and seeing winning combinations, I'm confident it could end up on the tier list at some point in the future. I don't have enough experience with it myself, though, so I can't really give a solid answer yet. The results against Stamina aren't quite as good as I was expecting, but the results against aggressive Balance look really promising (you said this thing beat a Flash Attack custom? That's an important piece of information; a Dragooon combo that can both out-spin most of the Stamina meta and stand up to the Attack meta sounds to me like an extremely versatile custom).
Jan. 27, 2015  8:56 PM
 
TheBlackDragon Wrote:Nice results Shido! And yah, at Super Yolo Swag Tournament of Doom, BladerLight used Killerken Dragooon BD145GF and won against Duo Cancer SA165 [Normal] EWD. It was pretty crazy.

Thanks! That's good to hear, too; like how close were the match between the two, though?

TheBlackDragon Wrote:(you said this thing beat a Flash Attack custom? That's an important piece of information; a Dragooon combo that can both out-spin most of the Stamina meta and stand up to the Attack meta sounds to me like an extremely versatile custom)

The matches were really close, I think I really only won 3-2 out of pure luck, haha.

Again, this thing isn't supposed to do successfully against attack, nor should it ever be the alternative choice for Defense when against them.
Feb. 07, 2015  4:18 PM
 
If anyone remembers this old thread... http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Genbull-...65-BD145GF
This proves it can defeat ATK and get a 50% on Duo STMA.

Tests (Click to View)
Feb. 11, 2015  11:01 PM
 
Only that Duo Gasher test is even close to being statistically valid... The other four tests definitely need at least another ten rounds each to be acceptable. 6 wins out of only ten rounds total is not "awesome."
Feb. 12, 2015  2:29 AM
 
(Feb. 11, 2015  11:01 PM)Aɴɢʀʏ Fᴀᴄᴇ Wrote: Only that Duo Gasher test is even close to being statistically valid... The other four tests definitely need at least another ten rounds each to be acceptable. 6 wins out of only ten rounds total is not "awesome."

TBH, those were so old, and I lost half of my beyblade collection so... I'm probably not doing many tests too soon.
Feb. 22, 2015  3:43 AM
 
Well, I decided to continue on with the Wyvang Girago BD145RDF, 10-round for some reason, tests where Killerken Dragooon's score was 5/10. I redid the tests and as a results, here's what I got.

Honey in the Tip Variations and the Way That They Impact Performance Thread Wrote:________________________________________________________________

Killerken Dragooon BD145GF versus MSF-H Wyvang Girago BD145RDF
RDF worn by a tad; BD145RDF launched first all matches.
Killerken Dragooon: 5/20 (4 OS, 1 KO) 25% win rate.
Wyvang Girago: 15/20 (13 OS, 2 KO) 75% win rate.

Not good; I believe Wyvang Girago's success simply had to do with the width and the big circular-shape being much bigger than the rubber of RDF itself. Let me mention, though, there were a lot of ties, and when I say a lot, I'm talking 14, believe it or not, counted ties; all of the matches were close, but in the end RDF got the wins.

So yeah, in short, Dragooon BD145GF does horrendously against BD145RDF. I did some unofficial tests against other BD145 variants and the same thing occurred (obviously, a change of Chrome Wheels in this scenario wouldn't impact the performance and win by OS that much, it's the tip that would).
Mar. 20, 2015  2:35 AM
 
So, I kind of want to bring this topic back there; what do you guys think on giving it a spot up there? I'm, for the most part really up for it going up there. It kills HTSCs and high-track balance combos, anti-attack, Genbull stamina, Defense and Balance on BD145 (as long as it's not against BD145RDF), in some cases Duo stamina- not too sure what to say on it doing well; while most of my tests weren't that great, others tests were better. I think as long as you get a hard launch you'd be OK and more. Right now, I believe the really only major major issues is against BD145RDF and Dragooon stamina. Now that's where it completely goes down in flames.

A couple of more opinions would be appreciated. Smile
Mar. 20, 2015  3:25 AM
 
I really don't know for this combo. First of all, I don't own a GF. Could you test it against some attack combinations ? I guess RF will simply destroy it.
Mar. 20, 2015  3:28 PM
 
(Mar. 20, 2015  3:25 AM)MissingNo. Wrote: I really don't know for this combo. First of all, I don't own a GF. Could you test it against some attack combinations ? I guess RF will simply destroy it.

From what I've seen, it really has no issue against attack; KOs are a lot less harder to get because of BD145. Dragooon BD145GF, also consider, is capable of destabilization. Even if these weren't the cases, this, again isn't what should be used against attack over defense.

Also, really only post if you actually have experience with them. Saying RF would simply destroy it is incorrect.
Mar. 20, 2015  4:59 PM
 
It was only some speculation. I own XF, and GF is just a little wider. From my own experience, XF is a really risky choice, even if you know how to launch it correctly.
Mar. 20, 2015  9:44 PM
 
(Mar. 20, 2015  4:59 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: It was only some speculation. I own XF, and GF is just a little wider. From my own experience, XF is a really risky choice, even if you know how to launch it correctly.

GF being used is risky within itself, haha. The part can take a while to get to control, but works pretty well when the launch is mastered.
Dec. 12, 2015  2:11 AM
 
great combo Mitsu i will use it at upcoming event, it's little risky though for less experienced/skilled bladers but with practice i would perform pretty well. i trust your combos so i will use this along with kraken levithan e230rf [i found heavily weared r2f work much better compared to rf]
Dec. 14, 2015  5:06 AM
 
Nobody in their right mind would continue to use Duo stamina due to it being thrashed by attack combos, do you mind testing against LS attack?
Dec. 14, 2015  1:39 PM
 
Duo have a pretty good defense actually.
Dec. 17, 2015  3:31 AM
 
(Dec. 14, 2015  1:39 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: Duo have a pretty good defense actually.

This post was useless...? But not comparatively my friend. None of the setups he had Duo on were great for defense, with the exception of Duo Aquario BD145 RSF.
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