World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Project: Chrome Wheels

Sep. 22, 2014  4:29 AM
 
Process for overturning ranking (all results must be confirmed by another tester)
Attack Example (test against Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF)
Balro on Best Possible Setup vs. Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF
Balro Win%: 90

Wyvang on Best Possible Setup vs. Revizer Dragoon BD145RDF
Wyvang Win%: 95

In this case, Wyvang would move up the ladder over Balro.

Defense Example (test against Flash Orion CH145RF)
Killerken on Best Possible Setup vs. Flash Orion CH145RF
Killerken Win%: 70

Goreim on Best Possible Setup vs. Flash Orion CH145RF
Goreim Win%: 60

Killerken would maintain its ranking above Goreim

Stamina Example
Wyvang on Best Possible Setup
Average Spin Time: 2:11

Zirago on Best Possible Setup
Average Spin Time: 3:14

Zirago would maintain its higher ranking.


In an effort to gain a fuller understanding of the variability synchrome wheels added to our metagame, I had the idea of developing a full analysis on every chrome wheel. Attack, Defense, and Stamina Potential along with mold variatio and contours.

Clearly, each wheel has been tested, but this thread aims to fully eliminate the possibility that we are overlooking something.


Full Chrome Wheel List:
Bahamdia
Balro
Begirados
Dragooon
Gargole
Genbull
Girago
Goreim
Gryph
Ifraid
Killerken
Orojya
Pegasis
Phoenic
Revizer
Saramanda
Wyvang



Known Wheels With Mold Variations:
Wyvang
Dragooon


Definite Ranked List of Pure Attack Potential
1 Wyvang
2 Balro
3 Begirados
4 Bahamdia
5 Gryph
6 Pegasis
7 Phoenic
8 Ifraid
9 Girago
10 Saramanda
11 Dragooon
12 Genbull
13 Goreim
14 Orojya
15 Gargole
16 Killerken
17 Revizer

Definite Ranked List of Pure Defense Potential
1 Revizer
2 Killerken
3 Genbull
4 Dragooon
5 Zirago
6 Gargole
7 Goreim
8 Wyvang
9 Balro
10 Begirados
11 Pegasis
12 Begirados
13 Phoenic
14 Ifraid
15 Gryph
16 Bahamdia
17 Orojya

Definite Ranked List of Pure Stamina Potential
1 Genbull
2 Zirago
3 Killerken
4 Gryph
5 Goreim
6 Phoenic
7 Orojya
8 Balro
9 Gargole
10 Bahamdia (when synchromed with itself)
11 Pegasis
12 Dragooon
13 Wyvang
14 Begirados
15 Revizer
16 Ifraid
17 What wheel is missing?
Sep. 22, 2014  12:55 PM
 
Great job on this, Time, I love the concept, the thread was well organized, too! Anyways, there's simply really nothing to be given criticism on, however, Bahamdia can most definitely be added for attack. Yes, it doesn't have much use for Attack in comparison to post Balro and Wyvang for Attack, however, it plays a key role in setups like Bahamdia Dragoon BD145R2F/LRF and Bahamdia (Phoenic, Ifraid, Begirados, etc) SA165R2F.

I myself have also began playing with Dragoon (on the bottom) for Attack, too. It provides a whole lot of smash, which would be good in this case. I wouldn't mind posting any results, however, is there anything specific anybody would want me to test utilizing Dragoon? Not only would this be potential valuable information for this thread, though it would also help me out of my own advantage and interests for Dragoon and its Attack purposes, as well.

Once again, great job on the thread, Time!
Sep. 22, 2014  4:41 PM
 
My hunch is Girago in third for attack. Beyond that is anyone's guess, if we're just talking about the stand-alone chrome wheel. I guess you'd have to synchrom it with itself for testing?
Only problem with this is that some wheels, like Bahamdia or Dragooon, require a certain chrome wheel on top or below to work effectively so ranking them based on their power alone can be inconclusive.
Sep. 23, 2014  12:45 AM
 
(Sep. 22, 2014  4:41 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: Only problem with this is that some wheels, like Bahamdia or Dragooon, require a certain chrome wheel on top or below to work effectively so ranking them based on their power alone can be inconclusive.

I'm seeing this as a huge problem for this list. I love the idea, but how do we define wheels best paired with other wheels, like Killerken and Bahamidia? Both are excellent in their respective categories (Stamina and Attack) but only work with other wheels. Killerken^2 has pathetic Stamina, but paired with Orjoya, Revizer, or Genbull it does very well. And Bahamidia^2 is even more worthless; it just covers up its own contact points. But either wheel is excellent when paired properly, so where are they ranked?

I would say that if we are talking about pure potential, it should allow for certain pairings with other wheels as well; though it may be difficult to tell which wheel is doing the most work to give the customization its properties. Bahamidia Ifraid is easy enough to discern - clearly Bahamidia is the powerhouse of the custom - but others like Killerken Genbull my be difficult to tell whether Killerken is useful in its own right of if it is just mooching off of Genbull's already excellent Stamina.

If we could get a list like this for ALL parts, then it would be very simple to make a program that, when told someone's collection, would tell you what combinations would be the best, using substitutions from the tier list. So, for example, Phantom Pegasus II 90HF if the user is trying to make a Tornado Staller but does not have MF, 85, or Cancer/Cygnus. Basically, it would be an automated BMAC#2.
Sep. 23, 2014  4:38 AM
 
Cake if you have the programming skills that would be incredibly cool, think of this thread as more of a preferred overall, like if you could only have one of the wheel (kind of abstract to think about I know, but it should divulge valuable information) which would you prefer, another thread idea i'd had was absolute tiering, but the testing required for it just seemed like an amount incapable of being gathered after the way my "the true best" thread flopped

General discussion I personally would rank begirados as third on attack which is why I currently have it blank
Oct. 03, 2014  1:31 PM
 
I'd definitely be up for adding Begirados as third for Attack, too. That in mind, I got a couple of tests done myself, just to show what it's actually able to pull off as a Chrome Wheel. Here they are!:

Begirados Begirados BD145RF Tests Wrote:
Begirados Begirados GB145RF vs Duo Cancer 230MB:
Rubber Flat semi-worn, Metal Ball semi-aggro, Duo launched first all battles
Begaridos Setup: (0 OS'S, 18 KO'S)
Duo Cancer: (12 OS'S, 0 KO'S)
Begirados win rate: 60%

Begirados Begirados GB145RF vs Killerken Dragoon SA165WD:
Rubber Flat semi-worn, Wide Defense in its prime, Killerken Dragoon launched first all battles
Begaridos Setup: (0 OS'S, 21 KO'S)
Killerken Dragoon: (8 OS'S, 1 KO)
Begirados win rate: 70%

Begirados Begirados GB145RF overall win rate: 65%

In addition to that, there are tests by both KainHighwind's and Thunder Dome's Begirados Begirados BD145RF ones in his thread relating to the setup, which were able to pull off a 63% overall win rate, as well.

EDIT: I can definitely see Girago up there, too, although it really only has use for Anti-Attack, attack-wise.

I'm not too sure about Bahamdia myself, either; it really needs be placed below another Chrome Wheel to do well.
Oct. 04, 2014  1:30 AM
 
This is an excellent idea, I must say.

However, especially regarding Stamina, there's a big problem. Different setups work with different parts, in different ways, against different types of opponents. There isn't any real fixed reference point for which Chrome Wheel is best for Attack, and there is no fixed reference point for which Chrome Wheel is best for Defense, and there is especially no fixed reference point for which Chrome Wheel is best for Stamina.

Af far as Attack goes, Balro works better against E230 opponents, and Wyvang works better against BD145 opponents; Bahamdia Dragooon works close to the same against both. It's tough to say which is actually the "best" for Attack, since they work in different ways.

For Defense, testing actually shows that Genbull works better than Revizer on BD145, but on E230, it's a different story. Killerken is usually inferior on both setups.

Different Stamina setups work differently against certain other Stamina setups. For instance, look at this model:

Dragooon Stamina > Duo 230/Genbull SR200 > Duo W145/B : D/SA165 > Dragooon Stamina etc.

On top of that, different Wheels tend to work differently on each setup, so it would be very difficult to determine which is actually best.

We always tell new members that "there is no best Beyblade," and I think that's true within individual Beyblade types as well. With all the variables involved in Beyblade customization, I'm not sure a ranking list like this could be accurate enough to actually write a computer program that determines which customizations are best within a person's collection (something like that would be unbelievably cool, though, and it's not necessarily impossible).

I think a better way to do this would be to organize the Wheels into their own tiers. It sounds like you're trying to get an overall picture of how well each Wheel works in each category. If we divided up each category into tiers containing multiple Wheels, they would be much easier to construct, and there would be less risk of inaccuracy involved.

For instance, the Attack category would look like this (I just threw this together; I gave it my best guess, but don't put too much stock in it, haha):

Quote:
Tier 1


Wyvang :: Bahamdia :: Balro

Tier 2


Gryph :: Girago :: Phoenic

Tier 3


Begirados :: Ifraid :: Pegasis

Tier 4


Goreim :: Dragooon :: Orojya

Tier 5


Gargole :: Saramanda :: Killerken

Tier 6


Revizer :: Genbull

Just a suggestion.

Something like this would be tough to pull off, but if it turns out well it would be kind of awesome.
Oct. 04, 2014  2:17 AM
 
Time I could try programming a little file that decides the recommended Chrome wheel based on a few multiple choice questions that you think are vital criteria.

Such as

Spin Direction
Skill
Push or Rocket-KO
Opponent

Example (Please take into account any inaccuracies Smile):
I choose left spin.
I suck at attack types.
So I prefer a Push type
I want to beat E230

Results: Bahamdia/Wyvang paired with Dragooon

I have a sound knowledge of BASIC, but I could do any language you want. I just need the beyblade data that I most likely don't have. Such as the skill level part.

EDIT: Oops! Forgot this thread wasn't just for attack types Tongue_out. And I'll take this idea to PM now.
Oct. 04, 2014  3:51 AM
 
@theblackdragon People should eventually be able to rank withiin a tier
Fish That would be incredibly cool. However, I wouldn't put skill level as a type I would break it down something like this.

Type Sought: (Multiple Choice)
Format: (Multiple Choice)
Faces Possessed: (Unlimited Selections)
Wheels Possessed: (Unlimited Selections)
Crystal/Clear Wheels Possessed: (Unlimited Selections)
Tracks Possessed: (Unlimited Selections)
Tips Possessed: (Unlimited Selections)

This would require a tiering of every part ever produced in every type and it would be extremely complicated, but it would eliminate the need for build me a combo which could be incredibly useful.

Example Results:
Best Setup Obtainable
Tier ranking based on average tier of each part used based on the given type
Oct. 20, 2014  10:18 AM
 
I think Begirados realy has to be for attack it does realy well and i also good for force attack and upper/middle attack
Sep. 02, 2015  10:06 PM
 
Updated to the best of my knowledge. I would predict substantial testing is still required.
Sep. 23, 2015  12:04 AM
 
Wasn't Saramanda decent at Defense? Why isn't it there?
Nov. 22, 2015  6:56 AM
 
(Sep. 22, 2014  4:29 AM)Time Wrote: Definite Ranked List of Pure Stamina Potential
1 Genbull
2 Zirago
3 Killerken
4 Gryph
5 Goreim
6 Phoenic
7 Orojya
8 Balro
9 Gargole
10 Bahamdia (when synchromed with itself)
11 Pegasis
12 Dragooon
13 Wyvang
14 Begirados
15 Revizer
16 Ifraid
17 What wheel is missing?
[/align]
Saramandra is missing!
Nov. 22, 2015  12:17 PM
 
(Nov. 22, 2015  6:56 AM)vikrambeyblade Wrote:
(Sep. 22, 2014  4:29 AM)Time Wrote: Definite Ranked List of Pure Stamina Potential
1 Genbull
2 Zirago
3 Killerken
4 Gryph
5 Goreim
6 Phoenic
7 Orojya
8 Balro
9 Gargole
10 Bahamdia (when synchromed with itself)
11 Pegasis
12 Dragooon
13 Wyvang
14 Begirados
15 Revizer
16 Ifraid
17 What wheel is missing?
[/align]
Saramandra is missing!

Salamander is pretty bad for stamina If you ask me. Unbalanced and recoily