The Blader Union is still on the table 
In all seriousness tho, this sucks. I hope TT can fix this issue asap.
In all seriousness tho, this sucks. I hope TT can fix this issue asap.
[Product] B-59 Starter Zillion Zeus
(Sep. 18, 2016 1:02 AM)Jinbee Wrote: So... I assume they are a "take your money and leave" company, like Sega :3
But seriously, Kai-V does make a very good point, people might not want to waste time showing their breaks onto the internet.
Well, personally I always thought so far that TAKARA-TOMY cared a lot about Beyblade, their fans, and the state of the metagame. I never had any doubt of that in Metal Fight Beyblade, even in Zero-G although they kept releasing parts that outclassed previous ones each time. But so far, I really cannot back them up with Burst, there just seems to be such a change in mentality...
There were quite a few Earth and Libra breaks, but it never seemed so devastating? Probably since they never broke so early on?
(Sep. 18, 2016 1:58 AM)Kai-V Wrote:(Sep. 18, 2016 1:02 AM)Jinbee Wrote: So... I assume they are a "take your money and leave" company, like Sega :3
But seriously, Kai-V does make a very good point, people might not want to waste time showing their breaks onto the internet.
Well, personally I always thought so far that TAKARA-TOMY cared a lot about Beyblade, their fans, and the state of the metagame. I never had any doubt of that in Metal Fight Beyblade, even in Zero-G although they kept releasing parts that outclassed previous ones each time. But so far, I really cannot back them up with Burst, there just seems to be such a change in mentality...
There were quite a few Earth and Libra breaks, but it never seemed so devastating? Probably since they never broke so early on?
Oh what I said really applies to Burst, although in MFB, they were rounder and more durable in general anyway, and probably the most durable of any systems.
![[Image: 2hdvatw.png]](https://i64.tinypic.com/2hdvatw.png)
Hey at least Zillion Zeus and CoroCoro gives us the opportunity for great graphics like this:
[Image: ZillionZeus_CoroCorowallpaper.jpg]
[Image: ZillionZeus_CoroCorowallpaper.jpg]
If Bursts anime had special moves, this should totally be Zillion Zeus'.
That looks so sicK.
![[Image: giphy.gif?cid=790b76119fe9a5792461042c88...y.gif&ct=g]](https://media3.giphy.com/media/T3VmyELskbSGCcwGRB/giphy.gif?cid=790b76119fe9a5792461042c8862ce72e02280cf08406c6d&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
I think we need to separate malice from incompetence or carelessness. You can't say that Takara-Tomy really makes more money this way — they have to invest money in replacing broken parts and in correcting the molds for future releases.
I won't pretend to know why any of this stuff is happening but clearly something is very wrong in the design and testing process Burst. I suspect there is just not enough time between design and production and they just can't make up the gap.
But when you look at the way things are breaking, it's kind of like, of course this would happen. Hollow spikes, thin blades, teeth that could be bent over with any real level of pressure ... these are things that should have been foreseen before any of these part designs were even finalized. It makes me feel like the design team sincerely lacks historical knowledge of Beyblade.
I won't pretend to know why any of this stuff is happening but clearly something is very wrong in the design and testing process Burst. I suspect there is just not enough time between design and production and they just can't make up the gap.
But when you look at the way things are breaking, it's kind of like, of course this would happen. Hollow spikes, thin blades, teeth that could be bent over with any real level of pressure ... these are things that should have been foreseen before any of these part designs were even finalized. It makes me feel like the design team sincerely lacks historical knowledge of Beyblade.
if you really check well the video
this broken Z2 is not the one that he used to battle but another one
no idea how he broke it, maybe from battle
but I saw a lot of people breaking their beys by dropping it or stepping on it
this broken Z2 is not the one that he used to battle but another one
no idea how he broke it, maybe from battle
but I saw a lot of people breaking their beys by dropping it or stepping on it
(Sep. 17, 2016 2:02 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Wow. Screw this game now. This YouTuber's Zillion Zeus broke within minutes of having opened it. Wow.
From this video:
I warned your guys that the underside was all hollow, but I never wished for that to directly cause breaks...
![[Image: Zillion_Zeus_break.jpg]](https://s20.postimg.org/p27wosybh/Zillion_Zeus_break.jpg)
(Sep. 18, 2016 12:54 AM)Kai-V Wrote: In probabilities, remember that there are most likely just as many breaks that we do not hear about online as fine situations we do not hear about. You cannot just assume that all the people not posting online experience no breaks at all either.
Someone correcting their mistake due to the high level of complaints is never someone who actually cared that much to begin with... And I think that the fact that these parts are getting released despite any sort of extended testing beforehand is a proof of this carelessness. Anybody trying these out for a while would have noticed and postponed the release.
Yeah, that's definitely true. All I'm saying is that we can't assume the frequency/probability of breakages just from two breakage reports because they represent such a small percentage of the amount of Zillion Zeus that have actually been sold and used. It could be even worse than it seems, or it might be not as bad as it seems. It's impossible to say. And people don't post reports saying "Hey my Zillion Zeus didn't break!"; they're more likely to post if it broke, I would think. For example, I would have posted a picture of my first mold Victory Valkyrie had it broken, but since it never has, I haven't posted about it.
True! But if they didn't care at all they wouldn't issue mold fixes for them eventually.
All of this being said, I'm not denying there is some flaw in their design/testing process. There absolutely does seem to be one.
![[Image: beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/VLksgt2k/beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg)
The MFB designers talked about how, in the design/manufacturing process, cross-cultural communication with the Chinese manufacturer was the primary cause for delay. I've had this happen before, myself. You design a part, send it to the factory, they reverse-engineer it to fit their machines and the result is just slightly different to what you wanted - then you have to spend the next two months communicating with some Chinese intern, in Chinese, just to figure out what went wrong, let alone fix the issue. It's a nightmare.
V2 always seemed like an obvious case of this, to me. Someone in Japan made the mold with thick plastic walls, hoping this thickness would prevent breakages. Their 3D printed prototypes would have supported the reliability of their design. Then the Chinese factory received the model and changed the wall thickness - for some obscure but absolutely necessary reason, like, to prevent over-compressing the rest of the mold with excess material. This would have been a manufacturing quirk unique to this particular Chinese factory which the Japanese designers could not reasonably have foreseen. So the designers get a test-batch back, three weeks before shipping, and everything looks more-or-less okay... So they ship.
Okay, fair enough, right?
But then there's Zillion Zeus. And suddenly allowing the benefit of the doubt seems less deserving. Seems obvious this design would break. But I will say this: the part we see breaking is not the part I originally imagined would break. So there's that, I guess. They may still have tried their hardest and failed anyway.
V2 always seemed like an obvious case of this, to me. Someone in Japan made the mold with thick plastic walls, hoping this thickness would prevent breakages. Their 3D printed prototypes would have supported the reliability of their design. Then the Chinese factory received the model and changed the wall thickness - for some obscure but absolutely necessary reason, like, to prevent over-compressing the rest of the mold with excess material. This would have been a manufacturing quirk unique to this particular Chinese factory which the Japanese designers could not reasonably have foreseen. So the designers get a test-batch back, three weeks before shipping, and everything looks more-or-less okay... So they ship.
Okay, fair enough, right?
But then there's Zillion Zeus. And suddenly allowing the benefit of the doubt seems less deserving. Seems obvious this design would break. But I will say this: the part we see breaking is not the part I originally imagined would break. So there's that, I guess. They may still have tried their hardest and failed anyway.
![[Image: XloAViQ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/XloAViQ.png)
Z2 fun fact. More often than not, because of Weight's weight, after bursting it'll stay upright and spin by itself with no disk or layer 
I think toy is made for children. And it doesn't have durability for Adult power.
^ Beyblade is meant for kids but it's played by all ages..
While adults are generally physically stronger, we should also take into account that most older players tend to be more aware of their parts and their conditions, a lot of little kids don't check the parts conditions or do as much to prevent them from breaking faster, they mainly just focus on the intense action of the tops. I think they should be more durable for that reason because kids could break the Beyblades just as, if not more easily than some older players, and being battling tops, they need to be able to take some abuse.
Oh lord...
Making more of the exposed plastic ABS instead of the clear polycarbonate has obviously been a bad move. The polycarbonate seems like a much more resilient material.
I like Z2 as a blade, but this is just... awful. A lot of Dual Layers have been doing this, and it's saddening to see.
![[Image: poing-americain-leger-silver.jpg]](https://www.armurerie-loisir.fr/930-thickbox_default/poing-americain-leger-silver.jpg)
(Sep. 18, 2016 10:54 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Making more of the exposed plastic ABS instead of the clear polycarbonate has obviously been a bad move. The polycarbonate seems like a much more resilient material.
Um, is the clear plastic actually polycarbonate?
Either way, I've always been totally confused that the colored plastic component in the layer is indeed plastic. Being an obvious visual throwback to Battle Top (pre-Beyblade), it makes more sense for the colored part to be painted metal - just like the original Battle Top toys. From a performance point of view, it also makes more sense that the colored plastic should always have been metal - this kind of weight would still allow the burst mechanism to function with the disk, while unlocking greater spin times. Finally, extending the colored plastic part beyond the clear plastic part in the dual layers would (if the colored part were metal) be hugely poetic in a design sense, as well as a significant performance booster (rather than what we see in reality, with poorer performance). We've had metal Beyblades before at almost three times the weight of Burst - and they were safe to use! It just makes no sense to me that the colored part of the layer in Burst is not made of metal and I continue to suspect it was originally designed to be that way - and only changed at the last minute for some reason I can't imagine.
With the severely reduced weights we see in Burst, I'm confident all these plastic breakages (as well as teeth-wear) simply would not happen if the colored part of the layer was actually made of metal. If it were so, the Zillion Zeus design (and every other bad design, really) would make perfect sense and be an absolute marvel of technological achievement. Sadly, reality.
(Sep. 18, 2016 11:26 PM)Beylon Wrote: Um, is the clear plastic actually polycarbonate?
Yes, it says "ABS" and "PC" on the box.
The rest of your post is totally bewildering to me, to be honest. It's obvious why the parts are not made of metal (gameplay issues aside, it would cause serious safety issues), and it's obvious that metal parts would be less likely to break than plastic. The issue here is about poor design, not poor material choices.
Quote:We've had metal Beyblades before at almost three times the weight of Burst - and they were safe to use! [...] It just makes no sense to me that the colored part of the layer in Burst is not made of metal and I continue to suspect it was originally designed to be that way - and only changed at the last minute for some reason I can't imagine.
Did you forget the part where a spring propels the Layer off and it often goes flying out of the stadium? Imagine a first-hit double burst with metal layers. You sometimes miss the obvious because you forget that Beyblade is (and should be) primarily for kids.
Let's not forget that while metal is heavier, it will fly out with more force due to it's higher spin velocity and will be more dangerous. MFB wasn't dangerous because parts weren't meant to fly out and the designs were usually more rounded, so they didn't fly out like crazy. Metal layers is a terrible idea at this point because the Pre Bursts would stand virtually no chance and mainly due to safety.
It's also obvious that metal teeth would destroy the Driver mechanism, unless it was seriously redesigned, but at that point you may as well not use teeth anyway. (Like Hasbro chose to.) And the impact from metal hitting metal would probably produce many more bursts.
Well, for lack of a keyboard at present, just mark my words: three years from now, you will have metal Burst Beyblades.
I actually think they will add metal in a couple years, like HMS. The teeth would probably stay plasic though. Also in a BBG vid, where they put metal to burst, the burst beys bursted normally(except for valkyrie with it's worn teeth). But metal burst would be a metal to metal situation, and the defense of metal will balance out the offence of metal. My theory is that it will stay the same.
(Sep. 18, 2016 11:48 PM)Beylon Wrote: Well, for lack of a keyboard at present, just mark my words: three years from now, you will have metal Burst Beyblades.
If that happens, it's going to look a lot different than just the current system but with metal instead of plastic. I also wouldn't count on this happening at all, and am curious as to why you feel so confident.
The HMS comparison doesn't hold up because it's obvious they'd been contemplating going metal for a while and HMS was a clean system break from everything that came before it. "Metal" was core to the system design of both HMS and MFB, not some tacked-on upgrade.