Lol, I love the character! After he picks up Excalibur and freaks out, yeah that's totally me when i get new bursts LOL.
[Product] B-23 Starter Xcalibur Force Xtreme
Wow, Extreme is just the rubber part of RF on a Burst driver. How original Takara Tomy.
![[Image: h6sIxPy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/h6sIxPy.png)
![[Image: 2hdvatw.png]](https://i64.tinypic.com/2hdvatw.png)
Quake is dark blue, M145Q is light purple. Little relation there.
That sword part looks really sharp. Doubting a Hasbro release on that bad boy, don't want those dumb kids cutting themselves....lol...
But can it really be metal and that sharp!? Won't it scratch other plastic beys? And if it's plastic, wouldn't it break off?
But can it really be metal and that sharp!? Won't it scratch other plastic beys? And if it's plastic, wouldn't it break off?
(Nov. 13, 2015 3:56 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: Wow, Extreme is just the rubber part of RF on a Burst driver. How original Takara Tomy.
How is this a bad thing? Rubber bottoms are some of the best parts in MFB, especially RF being a staple of attack types throughout the meta, only being outclassed slightly by R2F(Which we likely aren't getting in Burst any time soon). The only bad thing about this being released is that Accele will be almost useless now in terms of pure attack. Can't wait to see what this does to the meta, I'm guessing Valkyrie Heavy Extreme will be awesome!
![[Image: spin.gif]](https://paulrobertson.mechafetus.com/spin.gif)
(Nov. 13, 2015 4:47 PM)gankoba Wrote: That sword part looks really sharp. Doubting a Hasbro release on that bad boy, don't want those dumb kids cutting themselves....lol...You got point. Takara tomy will not use sharp metal parts if it's metal I should curveed from bellow. Or it could be reinforced plastic (I mean mixed with rubber or something to make stronger) we have to wait till it's release or somehow translate the text return on it. It say something about that sharpe portion
But can it really be metal and that sharp!? Won't it scratch other plastic beys? And if it's plastic, wouldn't it break off?
![[Image: 2aj5k50.jpg]](https://i68.tinypic.com/2aj5k50.jpg)
![[Image: 1fftwi.jpg]](https://i66.tinypic.com/1fftwi.jpg)
![[Image: ig94b9.jpg]](https://i63.tinypic.com/ig94b9.jpg)
(Nov. 13, 2015 4:49 PM)UGottaCetus Wrote:(Nov. 13, 2015 3:56 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: Wow, Extreme is just the rubber part of RF on a Burst driver. How original Takara Tomy.
How is this a bad thing? Rubber bottoms are some of the best parts in MFB, especially RF being a staple of attack types throughout the meta, only being outclassed slightly by R2F(Which we likely aren't getting in Burst any time soon). The only bad thing about this being released is that Accele will be almost useless now in terms of pure attack. Can't wait to see what this does to the meta, I'm guessing Valkyrie Heavy Extreme will be awesome!
They're awesome if they don't end up rendering 99% of the other drivers obsolete. Answer this: what performance tops other than other rubber tips outclass rf?
I critiqued the attack bias the wbo has in the October TIBNI, and we can't end up with another metagame where people are afraid to be creative if they want to win, and not say: let's face it, there's no way I can use this part (eg. Claw) when all the top tier attack combos have extreme. I guess I will need to use it too. Then, you see people spamming it like they spammed rf and ended up banning any part that stood a chance.
Unlike mfb, burst is a much more sensetive metagame because of the burst finish, and I think it's time to be aware of the havoc extreme might cause.
Sion I hope you understand that the extra friction forces acting on the attacking bey will make it "Extremely" vulnerable to bursting itself. Adding to that risk, it will probably be quite hard to control, so really attack is just such a huge risk. How do I know it will burst itself? Well Zoroaste made his own Proto-Extreme which is exactly the same as this Extreme Driver, and in his video Valkyrie Heavy Extreme was bursting itself quite a bit, even at such low RPM, Zoro mentioned it bursting itself more especially when launched hard, so honestly your argument about spamming Extreme is "Extremely" invalid do to the sheer unpredictability and risks that come with using it.
And I have no idea what "attack bias" you're talking about because majority of the Toronto bladers don't ever use attack because it's too risky, once again the risk factor comes in. It takes major skill to use Rubber like tips and actually win consistently, removing such a skill from the meta game would just make attack straight out suck.
I want you to take a look at standard format, do you see anyone using RF? No because RDF with Synchromes is literally impossible to easily beat, RF is not over powered, the only time RF actually has a chance at winning is if the blader is skilled and the person using it is certain the opponent wont use a tank like Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF or Bakushin 90RS... If you were to remove the RF, Stamina would be way dominant, and it would remove some of the planning skills you need to predict what your opponent would use, because now it would be a choice of Stamina or Staller, that's all you would need to win because there is no worries of a big bad rubber tip to make you think twice.
And I have no idea what "attack bias" you're talking about because majority of the Toronto bladers don't ever use attack because it's too risky, once again the risk factor comes in. It takes major skill to use Rubber like tips and actually win consistently, removing such a skill from the meta game would just make attack straight out suck.
I want you to take a look at standard format, do you see anyone using RF? No because RDF with Synchromes is literally impossible to easily beat, RF is not over powered, the only time RF actually has a chance at winning is if the blader is skilled and the person using it is certain the opponent wont use a tank like Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF or Bakushin 90RS... If you were to remove the RF, Stamina would be way dominant, and it would remove some of the planning skills you need to predict what your opponent would use, because now it would be a choice of Stamina or Staller, that's all you would need to win because there is no worries of a big bad rubber tip to make you think twice.
Sion, you are absolutely right. RF, when it came out, effectively killed any other bottom for use in terms of attack. I mean, who would use F or HF over RF? Yes, they offered more stamina but their attack power simply paled in comparison.
MFB as a whole was a constantly evolving meta, and honestly a lot of parts that could have been potentially useful were DOA because often times the following release outclassed it or negated its purpose. Look at what happened with 4D, There was Variares and Blitz dominating attack but then Duo and Death all but killed attack in general until Flash came out but then soon after that 0G was unleashed synchroms to the world and all other parts in MFB were absolutely buried.
Thinking about it now, it might have been better for TT to hold off on releasing a Rubber bottom into Burst at all, or at least should have simultaneously released other parts to counter an RF. I honestly don't know how plastic bottomed defense combos will fare and stamina(though so far the meta seems to be quite focused on stamina in burst) will likely be all but killed unless upcoming releases change things. Should have released an RB or RS type of thing along with the attack part.
Finally there are attacks parts out that still haven't been fully tried(Fusion, Blow, and the upcoming Quake) and tested enough to see their use in various situations, but with the release of Extreme they may never even see the light of day.
Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to think about the ramifications a rubber part will have on the meta in Burst.
MFB as a whole was a constantly evolving meta, and honestly a lot of parts that could have been potentially useful were DOA because often times the following release outclassed it or negated its purpose. Look at what happened with 4D, There was Variares and Blitz dominating attack but then Duo and Death all but killed attack in general until Flash came out but then soon after that 0G was unleashed synchroms to the world and all other parts in MFB were absolutely buried.
Thinking about it now, it might have been better for TT to hold off on releasing a Rubber bottom into Burst at all, or at least should have simultaneously released other parts to counter an RF. I honestly don't know how plastic bottomed defense combos will fare and stamina(though so far the meta seems to be quite focused on stamina in burst) will likely be all but killed unless upcoming releases change things. Should have released an RB or RS type of thing along with the attack part.
Finally there are attacks parts out that still haven't been fully tried(Fusion, Blow, and the upcoming Quake) and tested enough to see their use in various situations, but with the release of Extreme they may never even see the light of day.
Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to think about the ramifications a rubber part will have on the meta in Burst.
(Nov. 13, 2015 5:28 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: Sion I hope you understand that the extra friction forces acting on the attacking bey will make it "Extremely" vulnerable to bursting itself. Adding to that risk, it will probably be quite hard to control, so really attack is just such a huge risk. How do I know it will burst itself? Well Zoroaste made his own Proto-Extreme which is exactly the same as this Extreme Driver, and in his video Valkyrie Heavy Extreme was bursting itself quite a bit, even at such low RPM, Zoro mentioned it bursting itself more especially when launched hard, so honestly your argument about spamming Extreme is "Extremely" invalid do to the sheer unpredictability and risks that come with using it.
And I have no idea what "attack bias" you're talking about because majority of the Toronto bladers don't ever use attack because it's too risky, once again the risk factor comes in. It takes major skill to use Rubber like tips and actually win consistently, removing such a skill from the meta game would just make attack straight out suck.
I want you to take a look at standard format, do you see anyone using RF? No because RDF with Synchromes is literally impossible to easily beat, RF is not over powered, the only time RF actually has a chance at winning is if the blader is skilled and the person using it is certain the opponent wont use a tank like Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF or Bakushin 90RS... If you were to remove the RF, Stamina would be way dominant, and it would remove some of the planning skills you need to predict what your opponent would use, because now it would be a choice of Stamina or Staller, that's all you would need to win because there is no worries of a big bad rubber tip to make you think twice.
Hmmm... you make a great point with the friction, but we should still proceed with caution.
Great extreme pun btw. You get a class 2 invisible face!
Extreme will outclass Accel, αssault and Blow in terms of pure attack but αssault outclassed the other two in that regard already. Heck, Blow was outclassed for pure attack at the time of its release.
The thing here is that the best pure attack driver is not necessarily the best attack driver like it was with MFB tips. A combination of attack and burst attack is in many cases more optimal, since it gives attack more of a chance against defense.
This shift towards a partial focus on bursting, however, then forces defense users to consider whether they should go for pure defense (RS type) and risk being burst or use something more evasion based like Blow, a tip that otherwise might not find use.
Just because Extreme will be top tier for pure attack doesn't mean it will win against things like Defense all the time since, as Zoroaste's tests show, the greater grip means more of the collision force goes into unnotching Extreme's layer, making attack's potential to burst upponents suddenly backfire. Extreme will likely do worse against static defense than Accel or αssault would.
Will Defense win enough to balance the meta? Who knows. That's what testing is for. We certainly can't just assume it won't though.
Burst brings a new factor into the game so we can't instantly assume OP based on past experience.
The thing here is that the best pure attack driver is not necessarily the best attack driver like it was with MFB tips. A combination of attack and burst attack is in many cases more optimal, since it gives attack more of a chance against defense.
This shift towards a partial focus on bursting, however, then forces defense users to consider whether they should go for pure defense (RS type) and risk being burst or use something more evasion based like Blow, a tip that otherwise might not find use.
Just because Extreme will be top tier for pure attack doesn't mean it will win against things like Defense all the time since, as Zoroaste's tests show, the greater grip means more of the collision force goes into unnotching Extreme's layer, making attack's potential to burst upponents suddenly backfire. Extreme will likely do worse against static defense than Accel or αssault would.
Will Defense win enough to balance the meta? Who knows. That's what testing is for. We certainly can't just assume it won't though.
Burst brings a new factor into the game so we can't instantly assume OP based on past experience.
That's true. All I know is this meta is quickly evolving and its awesome to watch.
As for the sword part it does look metal but i doubt it. Why might get metal layers later but right now probly not, the sword os probly silver plactic that reflext like metal, allthough....if its metal then tgat layer just got even more epic but like i said it most likelly isnt
I swear, that thing will burst and poke someone's eye out
![[Image: tumblr_nq5xdfNyMr1so23mto2_500-1_zpsesgsvb15.gif]](http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/claram/media/tumblr_nq5xdfNyMr1so23mto2_500-1_zpsesgsvb15.gif.html)
That would take some pretty unfortunate timing for the sword to literally strike the eye. But I swear, Hasbro's gonna turn that blade into a nub round thing.
I love the design of all the beyblade and know extreme will be useful, unfortunately I don't know if Excalibur will have the same destiny 
[quote='Siⱺn' pid='1295477' dateline='1447431008']
They're awesome if they don't end up rendering 99% of the other drivers obsolete. Answer this: what performance tops other than other rubber tips outclass rf?
[/quote]
We've never used this or seen it, so impossible to know. But, for example, you will definitely see people still playing mobile defense with Accel even when Extreme comes out. And as 1234beyblade pointed out, with Burst comes a whole new set of considerations that could make Extreme into a double-edged sword.
[quote='Siⱺn' pid='1295477' dateline='1447431008']
I critiqued the attack bias the wbo has in the October TIBNI, and we can't end up with another metagame where people are afraid to be creative if they want to win, and not say: let's face it, there's no way I can use this part (eg. Claw) when all the top tier attack combos have extreme. I guess I will need to use it too. Then, you see people spamming it like they spammed rf and ended up banning any part that stood a chance.
[/quote]
1. The "attack-bias" on the WBO doesn't exist. The only thing I would say is that as the most skill-oriented attack type, of course attack is an area of interest for higher-level players. But you see them use defense and stamina just as much, if not more, in tournaments.
2. I am not sure what you mean by creativity. I don't understand how a rubber tip limits that creativity. Ultimately, if you want to win, you have to use parts that are competitive; that has always been the case and will forever remain the case. But most competitive combos have been discovered by someone exercising their "creativity" in the first place.
If you don't want to use competitive parts, don't. It's fun to play at home with all kinds of parts and many bad parts can produce enjoyable battles, like 1234's Spriggan Vs. Trident video. But he would never use either of those Beyblades in a tournament.
3. Yes, there is a good chance that this Driver will be better than all other Drivers for raw attack power. But the attack power in Burst right now is not even that high; this is a necessary step for Takara-Tomy to take. But considering the only viable Attack-type Driver right now is Accel, and Accel will still be viable for other kinds of combos, this is an introduction of more options, not less.
Furthermore, a better Attack-type Driver will have ripples throughout the rest of the metagame, and will enable new types of combinations in response to it.
[quote=UGottaCetus]Sion, you are absolutely right. RF, when it came out, effectively killed any other bottom for use in terms of attack. I mean, who would use F or HF over RF? Yes, they offered more stamina but their attack power simply paled in comparison.[quote]
This is a good thing. Does anyone wish they were playing MFB with F and HF instead of RF?
[quote=UGottaCetusThinking about it now, it might have been better for TT to hold off on releasing a Rubber bottom into Burst at all, or at least should have simultaneously released other parts to counter an RF. I honestly don't know how plastic bottomed defense combos will fare and stamina(though so far the meta seems to be quite focused on stamina in burst) will likely be all but killed unless upcoming releases change things. Should have released an RB or RS type of thing along with the attack part.[quote]
We don't even know how current parts will fare against Extreme. There is no reason to assume, for example, that none of the current parts could hold up against Extreme.
As for RB or RS, I honestly see them faring poorly, for the same reasons that Burst forces us to rethink the concept of defense - by increasing the level of grip to the stadium, you also [b]decrease the ability to roll off incoming attacks[/i]; if you stay perfectly in place, your Bey will absorb all the impact of the hit. And that means you're more likely to Burst.
While many of the parts released have similarities to the equivalent time in the MFB release-cycle, it's important to remember that the actual metagame of Burst is playing out very differently than MFB. Thus, we shouldn't try to use it as a model for Burst's gameplay development.
They're awesome if they don't end up rendering 99% of the other drivers obsolete. Answer this: what performance tops other than other rubber tips outclass rf?
[/quote]
We've never used this or seen it, so impossible to know. But, for example, you will definitely see people still playing mobile defense with Accel even when Extreme comes out. And as 1234beyblade pointed out, with Burst comes a whole new set of considerations that could make Extreme into a double-edged sword.
[quote='Siⱺn' pid='1295477' dateline='1447431008']
I critiqued the attack bias the wbo has in the October TIBNI, and we can't end up with another metagame where people are afraid to be creative if they want to win, and not say: let's face it, there's no way I can use this part (eg. Claw) when all the top tier attack combos have extreme. I guess I will need to use it too. Then, you see people spamming it like they spammed rf and ended up banning any part that stood a chance.
[/quote]
1. The "attack-bias" on the WBO doesn't exist. The only thing I would say is that as the most skill-oriented attack type, of course attack is an area of interest for higher-level players. But you see them use defense and stamina just as much, if not more, in tournaments.
2. I am not sure what you mean by creativity. I don't understand how a rubber tip limits that creativity. Ultimately, if you want to win, you have to use parts that are competitive; that has always been the case and will forever remain the case. But most competitive combos have been discovered by someone exercising their "creativity" in the first place.
If you don't want to use competitive parts, don't. It's fun to play at home with all kinds of parts and many bad parts can produce enjoyable battles, like 1234's Spriggan Vs. Trident video. But he would never use either of those Beyblades in a tournament.
3. Yes, there is a good chance that this Driver will be better than all other Drivers for raw attack power. But the attack power in Burst right now is not even that high; this is a necessary step for Takara-Tomy to take. But considering the only viable Attack-type Driver right now is Accel, and Accel will still be viable for other kinds of combos, this is an introduction of more options, not less.
Furthermore, a better Attack-type Driver will have ripples throughout the rest of the metagame, and will enable new types of combinations in response to it.
[quote=UGottaCetus]Sion, you are absolutely right. RF, when it came out, effectively killed any other bottom for use in terms of attack. I mean, who would use F or HF over RF? Yes, they offered more stamina but their attack power simply paled in comparison.[quote]
This is a good thing. Does anyone wish they were playing MFB with F and HF instead of RF?
[quote=UGottaCetusThinking about it now, it might have been better for TT to hold off on releasing a Rubber bottom into Burst at all, or at least should have simultaneously released other parts to counter an RF. I honestly don't know how plastic bottomed defense combos will fare and stamina(though so far the meta seems to be quite focused on stamina in burst) will likely be all but killed unless upcoming releases change things. Should have released an RB or RS type of thing along with the attack part.[quote]
We don't even know how current parts will fare against Extreme. There is no reason to assume, for example, that none of the current parts could hold up against Extreme.
As for RB or RS, I honestly see them faring poorly, for the same reasons that Burst forces us to rethink the concept of defense - by increasing the level of grip to the stadium, you also [b]decrease the ability to roll off incoming attacks[/i]; if you stay perfectly in place, your Bey will absorb all the impact of the hit. And that means you're more likely to Burst.
While many of the parts released have similarities to the equivalent time in the MFB release-cycle, it's important to remember that the actual metagame of Burst is playing out very differently than MFB. Thus, we shouldn't try to use it as a model for Burst's gameplay development.
At last a rubber tip ! I will definitely buy this in the future
(Nov. 13, 2015 7:41 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: While many of the parts released have similarities to the equivalent time in the MFB release-cycle, it's important to remember that the actual metagame of Burst is playing out very differently than MFB. Thus, we shouldn't try to use it as a model for Burst's gameplay development.
Honestly, I feel like that is what is changing with the release of Extreme. It seemed like the meta had its own thing but with this release, I fear it could BECOME like MFB's meta.
(Nov. 13, 2015 7:41 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:(Nov. 13, 2015 5:10 PM)Siⱺn Wrote: I critiqued the attack bias the wbo has in the October TIBNI, and we can't end up with another metagame where people are afraid to be creative if they want to win, and not say: let's face it, there's no way I can use this part (eg. Claw) when all the top tier attack combos have extreme. I guess I will need to use it too. Then, you see people spamming it like they spammed rf and ended up banning any part that stood a chance.
2. I am not sure what you mean by creativity. I don't understand how a rubber tip limits that creativity. Ultimately, if you want to win, you have to use parts that are competitive; that has always been the case and will forever remain the case. But most competitive combos have been discovered by someone exercising their "creativity" in the first place.
I think what he meant by creativity was that instead of trying out new stuff, people would just go with the tried and true good combo. And I think he's right to an extent.
Yes, there are good parts and there are bad parts, and yes there are combos that win all the tourneys and stuff but then there's lots of parts that don't see much use at all, and like I mentioned in my post, parts that are never fully tested enough to realize their potential in the meta and are effectively DOA. Of course TT doesn't release parts in order of how good they are, so a Bey could come out with some strange part that doesn't appear to have much use and it goes effectively under the radar because X combo is already dominating the game in its area.
There are times when this is warranted and the part is actually pretty useless, but to me(and I could be wrong here) there are sometimes parts that aren't given a fair shot to be useful while we've seen before that Beyblades can have situational use as well as all around good results.
IDK, it seems like some people are more eager to just use the tried and true combo that's proven to be good than to experiment, whether competitively or not. It's just something I think I've noticed here, but I could be wrong. So when I made that long post about the ramification Extreme could have on the meta, it was more of a "guys what if this happens" thing. But of course, we'll have to wait and see.
(Nov. 13, 2015 6:31 PM)ClaraM Wrote:(Nov. 13, 2015 6:29 PM)gankoba Wrote: I swear, that thing will burst and poke someone's eye out
And now I'm expecting this to happen...
Wonder if it will?
Every Japanese kid asking for Excalibur this Christmas:
Spoiler (Click to View)
![[Image: tumblr_my6ur2wNr41s2wio8o1_500.gif]](https://33.media.tumblr.com/02d44bbdee26fcb00cd1589024880bd9/tumblr_my6ur2wNr41s2wio8o1_500.gif)
Seriously though, this looks awesome. The character is hilarious, completely over the top lol. Like he won the lottery with that thing. It will sell very well aha
![[Image: pdiNFiz.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/pdiNFiz.png?1)
(Nov. 13, 2015 8:14 PM)UGottaCetus Wrote:(Nov. 13, 2015 7:41 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: While many of the parts released have similarities to the equivalent time in the MFB release-cycle, it's important to remember that the actual metagame of Burst is playing out very differently than MFB. Thus, we shouldn't try to use it as a model for Burst's gameplay development.
Honestly, I feel like that is what is changing with the release of Extreme. It seemed like the meta had its own thing but with this release, I fear it could BECOME like MFB's meta.
(Nov. 13, 2015 7:41 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:(Nov. 13, 2015 5:10 PM)Siⱺn Wrote: I critiqued the attack bias the wbo has in the October TIBNI, and we can't end up with another metagame where people are afraid to be creative if they want to win, and not say: let's face it, there's no way I can use this part (eg. Claw) when all the top tier attack combos have extreme. I guess I will need to use it too. Then, you see people spamming it like they spammed rf and ended up banning any part that stood a chance.
2. I am not sure what you mean by creativity. I don't understand how a rubber tip limits that creativity. Ultimately, if you want to win, you have to use parts that are competitive; that has always been the case and will forever remain the case. But most competitive combos have been discovered by someone exercising their "creativity" in the first place.
I think what he meant by creativity was that instead of trying out new stuff, people would just go with the tried and true good combo. And I think he's right to an extent.
Yes, there are good parts and there are bad parts, and yes there are combos that win all the tourneys and stuff but then there's lots of parts that don't see much use at all, and like I mentioned in my post, parts that are never fully tested enough to realize their potential in the meta and are effectively DOA. Of course TT doesn't release parts in order of how good they are, so a Bey could come out with some strange part that doesn't appear to have much use and it goes effectively under the radar because X combo is already dominating the game in its area.
There are times when this is warranted and the part is actually pretty useless, but to me(and I could be wrong here) there are sometimes parts that aren't given a fair shot to be useful while we've seen before that Beyblades can have situational use as well as all around good results.
IDK, it seems like some people are more eager to just use the tried and true combo that's proven to be good than to experiment, whether competitively or not. It's just something I think I've noticed here, but I could be wrong. So when I made that long post about the ramification Extreme could have on the meta, it was more of a "guys what if this happens" thing. But of course, we'll have to wait and see.
Exactly what I meant.
I mean, it's one thing when you have a strong combo, but it's another thing when it causes a whole array of parts to be obsolete.
I am not saying something radical like we should ban valkyrie for being good for attack, but when you see ten out of fifteen people using the same part because it is proven to destroy an x amount of parts. I mean, I SHATTERED my r2f after overusing it at my first tournament to prove my worth. I had so many vibrant ideas, but it only took one or two releases to render my combo 100% obsolete.
Extreme is almost certainly going to be a force to be reckoned with. When it comes out, Extreme is going to run rampant amoung attack types. Defense types will need to adapt to counter it. Attack types will then be forced to reconsider older drivers to overcome Extreme's flaws. There is so much room for creativity there, especially with how there's a chance that Edge could be the perfect answer to Extreme.