[Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread

Not much of a king if it loses to everything else..

SCB has really great LAD, and combined with spin-stealing it can outlast a whole lot of Zombies.
SCB can outlast any plastic zombie if it has the right parts. Heck, other than opposing Spiral Change Base combos (which are basically zombies themselves, just without bearings), Tiger Defense/Wide Defense/Spiral Change Base (attack mode), with it's own SG, can outspin any opposite spin zombie reliably.

And no, it's not a "king of compacts" because it's not even really a compact, it's a balance-type. The weight isn't centrally focused, it's not "compact", no HMC, 10 Balance instead of 10 Heavy, aint very compact.

By the way, can we keep Q&A to the Plastics Q&A thread, please, in future.
Sorry for the double post, but this may be useful to some (I believe Mc Frown wanted to know a bit about it or something?), given it's one of the cheaper beys and there's little proper info on it.

Anyway, I got around to playing with my new Metal Dranzer AR (a yellow one). I used Grip Base and 10 Wide, as the AR didn't seem to protrude past wide defense enough. It actually performed really well. It's no Triple Wing, or Cross Griffon, but the contact points are good and well angled, it just needs more range, really.

So yeah, not a bad part after all, which Mc Frown may be pleased to hear.
but the smash point of Master Dranzer is among the fragile one isnt it?
its the one that quite similar too Metal Draciel right?
You're confusing Metal Dranzer with Master Dranzer (Master Dranzer and Metal Draciel are the same bey but with different weight disks and colours, whereas metal dranzer is a v series bey). Though Master Dranzer/Metal Draciel's Turtle Survivor AR does have good smash and is fragile, yes.

Very little info on metal dranzer out there (it's a v force bey that looks extremely plain and has SG Flat, and there were always loads left on shelves where I live back in the day)
So Th!nk, it's decent. The last time I played with metal Dranzer's AR A small part cracked at the contact point and I dont find that useful. I'd much Perfer triple tiger
I kno its a bit off topic so pls don't kik me I love plastic beys, does the AR of Rushing Boar have potent in certain combo's?
jadejupiter: Triple Tiger is a top tier part, Metal Dranzer's AR isn't. And yeah I could see it being a little fragile.

defenceblader: Better to try to get the right thread than ask not to be kicked or whatever, so use the plastics Q&A thread for questions in future. Easy mistake though.
Apparently it's a pretty poor AR overall though I recall hearing that it has some smash, but either way there are way better options. I don't own one though so this is just based on what I've read.
More informations for those who care, I finally manned up and used my Ariel AR for a few rounds as a zombie AR (the things I do for plastics).
It didn't live up to my expectations, the nubs at the ends of its wings poke out far too much, sadly. It's not really worse than Master Dranzer's AR but it's expensive, rare, and the most common mold is gold plastic, so don't bother.
What. The. Heck.

Okay, I played around with Metal Dranzer's AR some more, and....

It seems to be better Zombie AR than Gyro AR, in left spin. Being three sided is a bit odd, but it lines up really nice with Wide Survivor and has some notches for spin stealing and doesn't have any recoil issues in left spin. Wouldn't dare use it in right but wow, seriously impressive.

My initial instinct was "use survivor ring and line em up", but Defense Ring still *seems* to do better.

It's no tiger defenser, or twin horn, but it's definitely one of the better ones - perhaps even the third best in left spin.

I'mma go do some more work with it, but yeah this is really, really surprising.

EDIT: Woah, three posts in a row, sorry mods! But, this is pretty surprising - Metal Dranzer is generally considered junk so it's pretty cool.

EDIT#2: Actually, it's right up there with Tiger Defenser and Twin Horn in BOTH spin directions - this is really surprising and I will do some more to check.

I may also be changing my preference for zombie bases - Right now, Customize Bearing Base IS great, but even with Defense Ring, it's life after death seems to be short of the supposedly outclassed Defense Grip Base 2 (Wolborg 2) - Looks like I need to rework the wolborg 2 draft a bit, but I want to make sure I'm correct first. No tradeoff of stability either, as you can still use BK's shaft in it.

EDIT #3: Yep, seems to be the case, Defense Grip Base 2 being better. Will try to do some formal tests tomorrow, it's getting late and I have other things to try at the moment, and it'll take a lot of testing as they're very closely matched and therefore there are a lot of draws, though Defense Grip Base 2 seems to win the vast majority of non-drawn matches.

EDIT#4: Urgh, the metal dranzer - twin horn thing is so close, I'm testing them against wing cross on identical zombies in opposite spins, and they're practically identical... How many rounds of testing am I going to have to do to sort this out.... And, if it turns out Metal Dranzer's is better, I only have this nasty yellow one, but then I don't think there are any really nice looking recolours anyway.

EDIT #5: Yeah this is becoming one of those posts, but it does seem Metal Dranzer's AR IS better than Tiger Defenser in left spin not that surprising as that is tiger defenser's weaker/more recoily direction, but probably quite significant...

EDIT#6: I think I finally found the right combo to test against to discern the difference (Wing Cross/Wide Survivor/Wolborg 4 SG/Base), and Twin Horn (Takara) seems to be slightly better than Metal Dranzer's AR. That said, a junk part seemingly being the second best zombie AR I've used is pretty ridiculous (given I've used every known zombie AR, and a couple that aren't so well known).

Oh, one more thing: I have a new favourite defense SP: Cross Survivor (or is it -al, or -er, who knows). Odd that a "survival" sp is the best for defense and defense ring the best for survival (though it doesn't match wolborg 2's base, as above), but Cross Survivor puts a little plastic outside wide defense, which is good for lowering recoil, and while it's not really a concern with wide defense, on an MG WD Grip-Based defender, Cross Survivor can stand up to my attacker (with a fresh tip), which defense ring cannot. Yet to try Survivor Ring but I don't really like Survivor Ring that much, being three sided (though it may work well with Metal Dranzer's AR (the name of which I just checked, it's called Scissors Attacker lol) defensively - as that IS better than Tiger Defenser for Left-Spin Defense.

Oh yeah, Scissor Attacker (metal dranzer) - Better For Left Spin Defense than Tiger Defenser (Tiger Defenser is awesome in right spin though, of course).

So uh, quite a day.
Metal Dranzer is the business.
I'm pretty sure there's Yellow/Bronze/Purple and maybe like Red/Black.
Lol, it certainly surprised me. I'll stick with Twin Horn, but for most people it's an awesome choice for a zombie AR.

Man, Seaborg's Base has such terrible stamina. Triple Wing/10 Wide/Grip Base keeps outspinning it. I guess I'm not using the best parts on it but still, that's just ridiculous.

Also, wow, 10 Balance and Wide Defense are really closely matched on Wolborg 4 combos.
How does it compare to Galeon's AR in Left Spin? I know you don't have a great opinion of it and neither do I.
I haven't tested it directly, but Hasbro Twin Horn+War Lion SAR isn't as good as Tiger Defenser or Scissors Attacker, and did better than straight War Lion for survival and defense, as did Tiger Defenser, so considering Scissors Attacker is better than both of them, I'd be very surprised if War Lion was better in Left.

In Right, it's probably pretty even but I haven't tested war lion for zombies in right spin for an extremely long time (and I'm anxious about using my last SAR without the protection of hasbro's twin horn).
Urgh, I wish I didn't have to double post here so often but so few people post here, gah! Once again, I'm confident this is notable enough.

I was chatting to Train, and he bought up less conventional attack styles, including force smash. I realised I've never really given force smash much attention in plastics. It's usable in HMS and I wouldn't be surprised if Zero-G produced a worthwhile setup, but there are relatively few parts for plastics, and little information on those that there are.

Anyway, our discussion motivated me to investigate it and "try to make it work dammit", and, to my surprise, I found success where I really didn't expect it.

Okay, I've been playing with force smash for the better part of two hours now.

Sorry for the length, but I want to include everything I tried:

The main issue with force smash is that if you don't get the RPM high enough you're going to get uppered by everything else (as the slopes on your underside have the same effect as the opponent having upper attack slopes). So, centred weight is the go.

Next, part selection: I tried the inverted Upper Attack SP first, requiring a left spin setup. The massive problem with them is that they're too low. Whilst tall setups like Driger F or Wolborg 2's shafts in Wolborg's Casings do get it up there, both preclude the use of an HMC, you want a rubber tip for recoil control and Wolborg 2's tip just isn't aggressive enough (as it's not fully fixed in place). Had some moderate success with AR: Wing Upper WD: (6) Heavy SG: Left SG Bearing Ver w/ SG Bearing Ver 2 Shaft, SP: Upper Attack (inverted) BB: Customize Grip Base, but generally not reliable enough.

The other issue with this is that because of the recoil inherent in force smash with contact points on the underside, really good stamina is basically out of the picture, so for zombies, you gotta net that KO, which can be harder than it sounds.

I scrapped that and moved onto ARs. Now, the two ARs that I felt had the shape required for force smash only had it in left spin, Gigars and Driger V2's AR's. Both of these AR's have recoil issues in left (or both directions in the case of Gigars). Neither had enough stamina to outspin enough things for me to be satisfied, and neither had the smash to KO anything much more than 10bBistool. Tried a couple of setups, mainly Left HMC+CGB+Defense Ring (least obtrusive SP), and 10 Heavy, but yeah, nothing notable occured.

That said, tere was one AR I hadn't really considered because it's slopes aren't long or angled much, but heck, I figured I should give it a go. It's also the only one with force smash slopes in Right Spin. Dranzer G's Recoil-Tastic AR. Honestly, I have never liked it, I expected a lot from it when I first tried it and all it delivered was a load of recoil and little more.

So, swapped the SG to neo right and got started, and you know what? It actually works! It's aggressive enough to net KO's against zombies (though I'm yet to try weak launching) (there may be a sweet spot between not getting KO'd and not getting OS'd for the zombie but I'm yet to find it! Grin), and forces compacts and other stuff to scrape the floor.

What's even better is that it seems to work just fine with Wide Defense as well, allowing for a bit more regular smash to deal with zombies (which are almost entirely immune to force smash) without sacrificing much defense, as well as providing a boost to stamina.

Of course, no attacker is without its defensive nemesis: Defensive Zombies are a huge problem, as they will outspin you, and you only have a small chance of KOing them (generally has to be OHKO).
As for the other defenders: Weight Based Defenders are taken care of in true force smash style. Wolborg 4 Combos, that depends on the WD. The 10 Balance variant is relatively easy to KO because of the height. The Wide Defence Variant is a larger threat, as it is significantly harder to KO. My advice there is practice tornado stalling with CGB (as it's surprisingly difficult to stop it self-KOing or making contact instead). Wolborg 4 has some weakness to that tactic (I assume because it doesn't maintain RPM that well, but I'm not 100% sure), and you can net outspins with fairly decent regularity.

Oh, and a couple more things about the AR:
Dranzer G's AR is called Wing Survivor and that is amongst the most inappropriate names of any plastic part (falling just short of Hasbro's infamous first version of Driger V's Base), this AR has a buttload of recoil and very limited survival ability, though the force smash it has does help that.

A warning: if you want to stop this beyblade (or any bey with this AR) while it's still spinning at relatively high RPM, either use padding or be careful to not touch the AR. It is amongst the more damaging AR's of the plastics gen, quite similar to Cross Griffon and as such carries the same warnings, while its recoil makes it less likely to break other beyblades, your hands and tornado attack stadia are much softer and as such should be protected.

So, here we go:

Plastics Force Smash Combo!

AR: Wing Survivor (Dranzer G)
WD: Wide Defense/10 Heavy
SG: Neo Right SG (Heavy Metal Core)
SP: Defense Ring (Voltaic Ape)
BB: Customize Grip Base (Dragoon V2)

Defense Ring stays out of the way and has the best LAD of any SP I have (everything but twin guard), everything else has been fully discussed.

Definitely part intensive. If Ariel 2's base weren't so fragile, being able to use an HMC with that tip at that height would make this combination extremely dangerous competitively (though from what I've seen so far it is VERY viable anyway).

Oh, seeing as height wasn't a bad thing for this I also tried Dragoon GT's CEW on a Left Customize EG and Normal Base (Wolborg 4/Rock Bison), alongside 10 Heavy, for Driger V2 and Gigars AR's. Unsurprisingly it sucked.
So that's the best combo you found? Why did it have to have Dragoon V2 though. It's so hard to find! Did you find any use for Gigar 's AR since that's supposed to be good for force smash.
Dragoon V2 isn't *that* hard to find, definitely the most easily available of the 3 fastest grip bases. I think Cannon won a few in his various lots so he's probably looking to sell one. Anyway, it's the only base tall, grippy and fast enough for it that can take an HMC, I guess a hasbro Wolborg 03 base would work okay, but that's even harder to find.

I did try Gigars as I said, but it's just wayyyy too recoily for anything competitive in either spin direction. Dranzer G's AR is the only part I've found that is able to pull it off.
Hey guys I figured out wyborgs AR is actually decent for left spinning zombies. It's no tiger defenser or twin horn but it is a cheap substitute. Was it ever thought about being good?

i never thought Dranzer G's ar can do that much..haha...when i tried it..it almost not usable for any attack type..haha..
but i was using Gaia Dragoon V BB at that moment.. XD
(May. 14, 2012  5:24 AM)jadejupiter18 Wrote: Hey guys I figured out wyborgs AR is actually decent for left spinning zombies. It's no tiger defenser or twin horn but it is a cheap substitute. Was it ever thought about being good?

Given the size and shape, I find that extremely difficult to believe, it's not round enough, even in left spin...

EDIT: Gave it a shot. Burning Kerberous' AR in left is better, which says something.

Most AR's will seem to do fine on a zombie setup if you try them against the wrong things, and they can still be used with some success in tournaments if you weak launch, but generally the recoil and rotational interruption (just a different type of recoil) make them significantly less useful than proper zombie AR's.

If you want a great Zombie AR on a budget, Metal Dranzer's Scissor Attacker is the one for sure.
Ehh doesn't matter it's not like i would use it over twin horn and does any one need testing for desert sphinxer? I'm getting one from Dio in a few weeks
Test it if you want but other than maybe the SAR having minor use defensively (a picture of it on a fairly well known AR like War Lion would be cool because I really have no perspective of how large it is, though Zeus Might work better for me in terms of picturing that, I'm guessing for most it won't), I don't see anything that would have potential other than maybe the base having decent LAD in something with zeus's CG and whatever CEW (Metal Sharp is the only one I've found so far that provides decent LAD, because it has some itself. I don't have Takara Zeus's CEW or the metal ball CEW, though). Don't know much about the CEW, maybe experiment with it but it looks to me to be too similar to rock bison's to be any good...
Yes I am interested in the sub ring and the base. I will try out the base cause it looks like it has decent LAD but a lot of recoil aswell
Desert Sphinxer CEW has the three sharp point thing that it scraped at times...and way too high..hahah...
Triangle shaped AR..seems to be a big recoil to me..and the sphinx's nose seems can be broken if used in high speed...
More interested in the SAR than the AR, SAR could be interesting.

Anyway, (and yay for once not having to double post), I was going through the beyblade wikia's plastics stuff (I felt like sending some of their nicer editors a list of the errors there), and it reminded me that Cyber Dragoon's SG is MG Jumping Version, and that I never understood the MG as it didn't use an MG core, but then I realised I never did manage to take apart the tip, and that maybe the magnet is there.

So, I grabbed an MG WD, and a couple of MG Cores (just to make sure I got the directions right), and lo and behold, there's a south core-aligned magnet in the tip of the base. I'd previously attributed it's slight attraction to magnets to the spring, but I realise now that while the spring is attracted to magnets, that's nowhere near enough to account for it. So yeah, magnet in the tip

Completely useless, sure, but kinda cool, and at least now I understand the name.