[Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread

Doesn't sound like it will work to me unfortunately. I mean there are better SPs for compacts (Voltaic Ape's for example) and Switch Metal Ball Base is quite bad.
BK's AR is actually pretty good in the right setup. It's contact points have the "triple wing magic angle", and two of them are good regular smash contact points. Then there's the spike attack wing, that... It's the high risk, high reward wing, it can deliver massive, powerful hits that can send beys flying or stop them dead, but it can also do the same to itself. Still, not a bad AR by any means, it's just finding the right setup.

The SP, however, are a total waste of an SP (especially given how few they made). Their shape is just terrible. Put them anywhere they make contact and bang, recoil city. There are better aggro sp's and better passive sp's, and it's worth mentioning that Dragoon V2's SP are better in every conceivable way.

Also, using anything other than an AR as your primary source of attack power is dumb - "hey, I'll use some low-range or round, recoily parts instead of the myriad giant spiked disks made for hitting stuff. I mean, Driger V2's SP are decent but even they work best with a suitable AR. No offence to anyone, this is a long-term gripe of mine that I'm just now venting about, haha.

Okay, so, I'm not going to match Ingulit's thorough-ness as I'm basically half asleep and frankly, the guy does the journal thing far, far better than I ever could, but I was doing some testing for the Guardian Driger Article, primarily of Gaia Dragoon G's SAR, which I'd noticed previously had surprisingly good survival properties - something others may have mentioned, IIRC. Well, yes, it is a semi-decent substitute if you don't have wide defense or survivor for spin stealing but do have a base that can handle it, though it still won't create a reliable zombie.

HOWEVER, what I was testing is defense, particularly its use in defensive zombies. Now, I haven't done formal testing, so keep that in mind, however, used on my standard defensive zombie setup

AR: Twin Horn (Hasbro)
SAR: War Lion SAR
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left SG (Double Bearing Core)
SG Shaft: SG Bearing Ver. 2 Shaft
SP: Defense Ring (I've switched back to this for extra LAD, as the setup doesn't benefit from Cross Survivor's additional defense)
BB: Customize Grip base

In place of War Lion's SAR - it actually seemed to improve the defense without sacrificing any stamina. War Lion does very little on that AR setup, and despite all of twin horn's many virtues, attackers using Customize Grip Base can still net KO's. I'll explain that in a bit, but first the attack combo:

AR: Triple Wing
WD: 10 Wide
SG: Neo Right S-MG Core
SP: Survivor Ring
BB: Customize Grip Base

Now, I'm not entirely sure on this, but looking at the heights of the two and their positions just before the surprisingly violent KO's, and repositioning them appropriately (though I cannot be sure what rotational positions they were in), I think Triple Wing is lodging itself between the main AR and the Weight Disk - a weakness I've noticed before in War Lion. I'm not sure how this affects their performance compared to non SAR'd weight disks, and it may be due to a specific height matchup, but CGB is one of the more common attack bases, so I will look into it when I get time/energy (probably with a Twin Horn brand comparison). Twin Horn is probably easier to do this to as it is larger, but a) it has a better leading edge, b) it has better stamina and c) it's not almost-Ariel-2 fragile.

And of course, the "big spinny gear thing" that is Gaia Dragoon G's Sub-Ring completely protects from this weakness as well as absorbing many hits, yet not being too large or poorly designed that it provides opponents with significant leverage.

I will try to do more testing on this later, but I think I'm about to fall asleep at the keyboard here (insert self-deprecating joke here).

EDIT: Just forced myself to do a couple of rounds with that attacker against my defensive zombie with the hasbro twin horn+bigspinnygearthing and takara twin horn, and bigspinnygearthing took the hits far, far better.

Also, tried a vanilla war lion setup, it seemed easier to KO than Twin Horn + War Lion SAR (though the latter has much better stamina in left spin).

PS: Fun things to do with war lion: put it's advertised attack and defense (or was it survival) positions on top of a flash wheel in it's analogous positions, and then read the beywiki article's description of it's shape. Honestly, it's suck a common misunderstanding, or at least misrepresentation of the facts - all shapes that I am aware of form circles when rotated 360 degrees.
Such an active thread oh my.

Anyway, I've been playing with my plastics a lot to practice for remembrance day.

Gist of this post:
AR: Smash Turtle
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Neo Right HMC
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customize Change Base (Driger V2)

is a total beast of a weight based defender, bridges the gap between compacts and weight based defense, and performs better in many cases than either.

I've kinda been considering Customize Metal Change+Defense Ring as a weight defense part for a while, it's a very heavy base, and in fact, that setup is only a little over one gram shy of SG Metal Ball with 4 Balls, and in exchange it has much better stamina, LAD, more controllability and the tip shape is pretty darn nice for defense, and is more stable than SG Metal Ball. Also, the 1g difference is less than you trade off when using Wide Defense - and SG Metal Ball+Wide Defense has much, much less stamina than Customize Metal Change+Defense Ring+10 Heavy - in fact, Smash Turtle on CMC+Defense Ring+10 Heavy can outspin both Tiger Defenser and Smash Turtle on SG Metal Ball+Wide Defense by a ridiculous amount.

I also find Smash Turtle works better than Tiger Defenser on this base setup - using tiger defenser, I was unable to outspin a standard driger s+hmc+10 heavy compact, but Smash Turtle's force smash shaves off the extra few rotations the Driger S compact was outspinning by. It also managed to do the same against the spin stealing upper attacker I use regularly, though I think this was a fluke, it was what made me look into it.

Customize Change Base + Defense Ring also appears to be more reliable against regular upper attackers than SG Metal Ball - because it doesn't have all that junk hanging down from it, instead having good LAD, upper attackers aren't able to make it scrape as badly as SG Metal Ball. However, compared to Tiger Defenser, Smash Turtle is noticeably more susceptible to upper attack due to its width, and the height of customize change base. It's by no means an auto lose matchup, especially if you can pull off a decent KO launch, but yeah, tiger defenser works better there because it doesn't give upper attack ARs any way to get under it. Wolborg 4 combos demolish upper attack anyway though, and seeing as Smash Turtle is much better against most other things, I still prefer it over Tiger Defenser.

So it kind of looks like my yearning for a SP compatible weight defense base has been sated. Customize Metal Change bridges the gap between weight based defense and compacts, which makes sense seeing as they're both based on being really heavy. In fact, it does it so well I will probably replace the compact and weight based defender on my competitive team with this one setup.

There is one issue though, I wish it were a little more aggressive, Smash Turtle has a weird effect on customize change base, it seems to make it much more passive than Tiger Defenser. With Tiger Defenser, I generally get a lot of tornado stalling at the start of battles unless I concentrate on a steady launch. With Smash Turtle, it takes some effort to coax out any sort of aggressive movement, which is a shame, as it does better in a few matchups if it moves aggressively.

Oh, another note, I am not able to outspin Tiger Defenser+10 Balance+BB Semi Flat with Wolborg 4 combos (maybe I got confused with 10bBistool, the same thing with Wing Cross, which is still very much outspinnable with a wound EG - honestly, I fail to see why you'd use wing cross over TD in that combo, it's recoil without wide defense/survivor to cover it means TD has better stamina and you aren't going to KO anything on BB Semi Flat. Ultra has mentioned Mold 1 of Wing Cross might work better, but I don't have one), and couldn't outspin my wolborg 4 combo with customize metal change or metal change base compacts after trying a ridiculous number of times - I don't know what's changed, but I have some thinking to do before I finish the project I'm working on, haha.

Oh, and on weight: Customize MC has a lot of weight because of thick plastic sections and the long metal tip. I didn't weigh Customize Grip, Grip Change, or Bearing as they won't work well for weight defense, but Switch Metal Ball is slightly lighter than customize metal change, customize metal sharp still more, and then whatever dranzer V2's base is. Basically, Customize Metal Change is one of the heavier customize bases too.
EDIT: It's also heavier than CGB with Dragoon V's tip. Defense Ring is heavier than Cross Survival and Survivor Ring, slightly.

I'll probably make a blog post out of this combo, though right now this thread is basically th!nkblargh 2: Electric Boogaloo with the complete lack of anyone but me posting.
(Jul. 17, 2011  11:52 AM)Benjohadi Wrote:
(Jul. 15, 2011  12:04 PM)th!nk Wrote: Personally, Dragoon G's BB seems kinda useful, as it basically has a built in eight-spiker for lower opponents, and it can use a Turbo Left EG+Rubber CEW, or whatever, and make a great OHKO combo with whatever AR (I tend to avoid whale crusher here as stuff goes right under it and hurts you). Dragoon V2's AR is a good option there, I guess, but yeah, there are loads of OHKO parts.
recently,in College Breakout : Ancient War plastics remembrance in malaysia..
i found dragoon g's bb is quite useful..
user boboy was using this combo:
ARConfusedmash turtle
EG:normal left engine
BB:first clutch dragoon g

it went wicked when the eg is released..i'm sure,if it hits the opposing bey..it a K.O.
just the the smash turtle is a bit less proper ar for a OHKO..
this combo really can be improve using Left Turbo EG...
i support th!nk theory..

Perfect, I have a Kid's Draciel, and am getting a Dragoon G. All i need is a 10 balance and I already have a bunch of combos that need a 10B (bistool and wolborg 4's bb with tiger Defencer).
In retrospect, I no longer stand behind that post, Dragoon G's BB for whatever reason has too much recoil IMO, probably due to where it sits in relation to the beyblade's centre of balance. You could do something with Smash Turtle on it, but you may have other bases that work.

Also, Tiger Defenser is flat out better on 10b+BB Semi Flat than Wing Cross, at least the second mold of wing cross anyway. It makes it far more difficult to KO or beat down for an OS.

If you want combo recommendations though, plastics Q&A is always open, I may be a little slow to respond at the moment because I'm bogged down with trying to get stuff done for remembrance, but yeah.
I know a lot of people talked about how Customize Change Base is less prone to attack mode (Compared to Driger S's base), but I've found this untrue. My Driger V2 seems to fall into attack position every time I launch, especially when facing strong attack types. Now maybe this is because I'm a lopsided launcher, but I still wanted to argue this. My hypothesis was that if I put Driger V2 (Vanilla) up against, say, Dragoon V2 uncustomized, it'll force Driger into attack mode more times than not. Unfortunately, my Dragoon V2 doesn't arrive till next week so I'll have to wait to test that one out.

Another thing: I believe Th!nk asked me to assess Orthros G's AR performance. One word for ya: Recoil. This thing is the king of recoil attack. I touched that AR once and it flew halfway across the stadium. There is no way it's a viable piece, at all. It'd destroy itself before it got one hit off. Any former accusations about it being "not bad" I take back. It sucks, haha. Well, the AR does. Maybe the Base and EG have a chance at redemption, but Double Attacker is useless, capital U.
I'm thinking about making a heavy plastic combo. I read up that 10 Heavy is the heaviest Weight Disk, but does anyone know what the heaviest Attack Ring and Blade Base are?
Pretty much all bases and AR's weigh the same. If I had to guess I'd say maybe Draciel G's AR (Drawing a blank on the name right now) and customize change base?

One thing for sure: If you have it, use an HMC. It should add a ton of weight to your bey.
First: Focussing on weight instead of a good AR and base is incredibly stupid, but assuming this is just for fun:

We don't have exact weights for all parts so it's hard to tell which is heavier by a few grams, but the heaviest AR would be whatever the largest AR you can use with Zeus's Sub Ring. I think Gaia Dragoon G's might be the heaviest that can be used with it but I'm not sure.

The heaviest base I know of is Fortress Base with Ariel 1's tip, wyborg's base clips, and four metal balls, though any more than two in that base shouldn't be legal, it is currently, two of them need to sit on the holes inside the base, and you can fit another two in but it makes launching awkward and they often shift around and I wouldn't allow it at a tournament personally.

Obviously, an HMC needs to be used, and Neo Left Casings are slightly heavier than Neo Right due to the little protrusions at the top, but that makes less of a difference than the weight variance between different WD's.

Also, a metal bit chip, and obviously failing that, at least a small bit chip + bit protector.

I've done it myself before and unsurprisingly the combo was horrible.
Well, my Dragoon V2 (Thank you Esperr!) arrived today. After only a few spins, I came to a conclusion: people aren't kidding when they say Customize Grip Base is hard to control. The darned thing must've hit the walls 4 or 5 different times before it came within range of hitting the other beyblade (In this case, a DZV2). I'm going to need at least an HMC to have a chance at controlling the BB. But more than that, I found Spike Dragon to have some recoil. I might be wrong about this, but I think that the spikes stick out too far/straight out and instead of dealing damage, actually take some due to recoil.

I'm a little disappointed that the Takara DGV2 didn't come with a magnicore, but that doesn't really make a difference competitively. Just personal preference. But besides that, I do like the magnet weight disk. The plastic casings make it really big, but the weight isn't too heavy. I'll bet that could find a place in some sort of combo (Or could be completely moot due to the fact that it's too big to allow the AR to make good contact, but too light to be used for defense). The SP I haven't really played with yet, but my gut tells me they might not work too well. I'll have to see.
Bank steeper, perhaps? CGB's issue is that its shape means it skips the tornado ridge a little too easily, hence the recoil and control issues, but it's a darned fine base, despite what beywiki currently says.

Spike Dragon is a proper OHKO AR - Incredible Power, but ridiculous recoil. Even Ariel 2's tip can't control it all but its hits are devastating. I love the thing but yeah, tooooooo muuuuccchhhh reeeeecooooiiiiillllll.

The SP aren't bad, actually a little underrated - they're my favourite attacking SP after Survivor Ring, because unlike fin tectors they don't add too much recoil (PS: Fin Tectors Are Poop). Still, though, I use Cross Survival on my smash attacker (which uses Customize Bearing+Ariel 2 Tip SG Setup) to focus on weight distribution as it is more effective for me (perhaps because the AR setup has ridiculous range anyway, though).

You won't be the first person to try to find a combo for MG WD, but I have some bad news: Wide Defense > MG WD. MG WD's corners produce more recoil than wide defense, padding or no padding, and overall, wide defense outclasses it in every way. I think I covered it in my wide defense blog post, actually Tongue_out

Dan wouldn't shut up about MG WD (dude still doesn't have wide defense) when he got it but yeah. I mean, it's generally the next best thing for spin stealing but it's nowhere near as good. You can use it for defensive zombies but they will not outspin a whole lot of things they should (because you no longer have a proper zombie), and you'd want to use Cross Survival SP to give you a rounder buffer against lower smash attackers. It's not as good as wide defense (which lets you use a better LAD SP), but it still makes for an imposing defense.
I tried banking a little steeper, and to my surprise it sorta worked. I guess part of it could be the stadium you use (As in, it'll do much better in Dragoon Hurricane as opposed to Draciel Fortress Stadium, I think).

Yes, I decided to focus on Reverse Attack SP a bit and I think they're not bad for attack. I think they have to be used in the same spin direction as the opponent though, because otherwise the opponent just slides right over them (But that's kinda a given Tongue_out)

I myself still don't have wide defense. It's on my list of things I have to get (Including Voltaic Ape and a Takara Metal Driger for its HMC), so for now I'll probably just stick with something else; maybe the MG WD. The good news is that I have a DZV2 so I can use Cross Survivor as my smash attack SP and Zombie SP - at least, until I get my Voltaic Ape and its Defense Ring SP (I have no way so far to get a Dark beyblade's SP for attack though...).
Scratch that neither of them have them anymore. How come you use Survivor Ring th!nk?
Do you have a BB-10? That would be better than the hasbro stadiums (there were a couple of decent hasbro ones but I don't think those are them). You'd definitely want something with a tornado ridge.
The angle you have to bank will depend on the stadium, and how much wall hitting you do will also obviously depend on that (especially dependant on whether or not the stadium has a tornado ridge).

The main thing with them is having them face the same direction your beyblade is spinning, then they operate like any other contact point would. Still, it's generally silly to attack primarily with anything other than an AR, so yeah.

I'd suggest you try to get a wide defense ASAP, my blog has a little on why, despite it's price, it's not bad value for money, it really is a must-have part.

Survivor Ring is only good for right spin, three-sided AR's anyway (though that includes both triple wing and triple tiger, sooooooo), and I don't generally consider it worth the money, given the Dark series don't have many other great parts (AR is a proper OHKO AR that can be used for smash but yeah, recoil out the wahzoo, and then there's the weight disks, but those can easily be found elsewhere). That said, I guess if you're limited to customize grip base it might be more worthwhile due to the height, I only got CGB after I already had Grip Attacker and Ariel 2 so I never really went through that, ahah.

Ultra: Lines up perfectly with Triple Tiger and while not as well, still provides good distribution for Triple Wing. Not a must have but a very nice part, especially as it's the only three-sided SP.
Nope, only hasbro stadiums. *Sighs deeply* I definitely want one of those, too, but they're so hard to come by these days I'm considering just getting a MFB TT stadium and using that. wow, that was dumb. Didn't realize that was a MFB Stadium, haha.

Lucky, what I wouldn't give for an Ariel 2. If I had one of those I wouldn't worry about using GCB either, haha. Although since that's what I have for right now, I guess I can just use that. But I'll definitely be sure to move Wide Survivor up on my "to buy" list.
Yeah, it's not as good as tornado attack but it's the next best thing (as I said, I don't think any more than that, the sonokong triple battle type stadium and tornado attack should be legal for plastics, but I've only played in BB-10 and TA so I can't be sure).

IDK, the tip of Ariel 2 does wear a bit fast (soft rubber), so generally it's best to stick to CGB aside from tournaments/tourney practice or special occasions, and really, as much as I love it, the fact is straight up smash attack is generally not required to win tourneys, other than the defense-lacking Spiral Change Base, everything can be outspun with stamina or defense (though obviously, a great smash attacker will handle a very, very broad range of opponents if used well, and there's nothing so satisfying as sending opponents flying).
I've never been to a tournament, but I would assume a lot of people use the same top tier combos. That being said, not a lot of people have an Ariel 2 so I would think that'd be better to use (or at least different) than a CGB combo. And since that's really the only place you'd really worry about having the best combo, I would just keep my Ariel 2 in a glass case until I needed it, haha.

I personally prefer stamina ad defense combos, which might explain why my DZV2's Cross Survivor is so beaten up. I just don't really own any good defensive AR's so I stick with more of a stamina-attack combo, which is why I might start using CGB a lot more.
Left spin gets a pretty raw deal for plastics. There's only CGB and Metal Flat 2 both of which are outclassed by Grip Attackers base. Only decent one is the expensive and hard to find Uriel 2 base
(Jul. 16, 2012  9:57 PM)Sparta Wrote: I've never been to a tournament, but I would assume a lot of people use the same top tier combos. That being said, not a lot of people have an Ariel 2 so I would think that'd be better to use (or at least different) than a CGB combo. And since that's really the only place you'd really worry about having the best combo, I would just keep my Ariel 2 in a glass case until I needed it, haha.

I personally prefer stamina ad defense combos, which might explain why my DZV2's Cross Survivor is so beaten up. I just don't really own any good defensive AR's so I stick with more of a stamina-attack combo, which is why I might start using CGB a lot more.

Because of the poor distribution of plastics and their prices, it's only in the finals where you find a decent concentration of top tier combos. Most people don't bother with Ariel 2 setups (seeing as you also need to use another beys base and sg due to the fragility of ariel 2), just too expensive and rare.
The most common type is really compacts and other balance types and tier 2/3 stuff, as far as I know (ultra has more experience with plastic tourneys than me), though I think every meta has at least one wolborg 4 combo user that prevents defensive zombies trampling everything.

The other thing is, because of the ridiculous number of competitive parts in plastics, most combos will differ at least slightly.

If you want stamina/attack:
AR: Master Dragoon/Dranzer GT
WD: Wide Defense (10 balance is the next best thing but much worse)
SG: Left/Neo Left SG (Free Shaft Ver) (Dranzer S) (Generally, opposite spin to opponent is best for spin stealing)
SG Shaft: Full Auto Clutch Shaft (Driger F)
BB: Defense Grip Base 2 (Wolborg 2)

Mc Frown popularised this, it blew away the flawed concept that upper attack only happens in same spin (well, it will do so more officially once kei actually bothers to read the explanation I made in the wolborg 2 draft thread, but it's pretty widely accepted now). It steals spin and destabilises and upper attacks. Wolborg 4 combos handle it though, and defensive zombies usually do too as long as they use wide defense and stuff (though they may lose a round or two through bad luck), and it doesn't have much defense but yeah, it's pretty solid.

There are a load of good defensive AR's, and plenty of them are easily available, metal dranzer's is great in left, and tiger defenser is a must have part anyway.

Ultra: yep, and left spin isn't as directly powerful against most beys (most are right spin) because contact points don't hit head on, AND the EZ Shooter Power Custom is right spin only. The only reason I use a left spin smash attacker is because the Gaia Dragoon V/Galzzly AR setup has so much power and range it compensates for it. The natural destabilisation of opposite spin attack is nice though, but you trade off some stopping power for it, so eh.
As far as Mcfrown's combo, I have all of the pieces except FACS and the Wolborg 2 base which I badly need from my friend. But he also has a Driger F, so now he has 2 things I need haha.

I don't know how I got it, but I have a Hasbro Jumping Base. Tiger Defenser is a really great part and I love using it on a lot of my stamina combos. I would like to get a whole Driger S at some point so I can have Metal Change Base as well, but that's not as high of a priority for me.

This may belong in the Q/A thread, but if I have one of those purple recolors of an Ultimate Dragoon (4 Layer System, Hasbro, light purple color, but I forget what it's called), are any of its parts viable for use? The AR seems recoily and useless but I don't know how good (or not good) the base is.

It's called Makendo and all of it's part sucks.
Oh haha, okay. I kinda figured, but I have to admit I had some hopes for the base even though it's a 4-Layer system BB. Oh well.
We do have an article on that beyblade you know.
Yes I know, but th!nk always tells me not to trust beywiki so I just took the question to this thread. They may have underrated the AR (Sorry, meant to put base there) or something (In this case not, but I wanted to check).