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Overlooked Parts Discussion and Testing

Jun. 28, 2014  9:44 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  9:42 PM)Echizen Wrote: Yeah, I wondered why people stopped, it seems as though its recoil wasn't that bad and it was pretty round, so I think in synchrome with itself or Genbull it could do well in something. Maybe on TB? I thought Saramanda could be some alternate for Killerken or Reviser. It may have use in some Balance customs though. I won't be home to test until a few hours.

People stopped using it becuz They found Reviser/Killerken/Genbull were better. Less recoil and they work just as good.


At your edited post: I've used it, I think Time has, Leone19 and Bunch of others too.
Jun. 28, 2014  9:52 PM
 
About the Hades thing it's probably because originally it was in a RB and Hasbro released one, but there was no point to get it when plenty of other clear wheels work the same if not better making the RB and release from Hasbro not worth it (unless you really wanted some of the other parts).
Jun. 28, 2014  9:56 PM
 
I prefer RSF over RB for the most part. RSF doesn't jump the Tornado Ridge as much, and is easier to launch aggressively.

I'm pretty sure Saramanda was outclassed by most other Chrome Wheels, and Gargole is as well. It works ok on Dragooon Spin Equalizers but Revizer, Killerken, Genbull, and Zirago work much better, and with at least 2 of those being more common you don't see it around much.

The reason Hades sees such little use is that it's hard to find, and usually not worth finding since Cancer is more or less equal to it, and much easier to get. I'm also pretty sure the only Metal Wheel it's been tested on is Phantom in Attack mode, making me wonder if it's good on Duo at all. Cancer and Cygnus, and to an extent Aquario and Bull, all have that streamlined shape that make them fit well on Duo, while Hades is a little more blocky. I can't really think of a better way to explain this other than Hades fits well inside of Phantom but not so well on top of Duo. It's because of the way the Wheels are designed.

I know DefStamina88 uses Orojya a lot, so maybe he knows something about it we don't. Someone should ask him.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:10 PM
 
RB only really jumps the tornado ridge primarily when used on higher heights. That's why it's used on tracks like 85 and 90 primarily.

Hades has a weird shape on Duo, but still gives it the same results for me anyways as Cancer. It's defintely not overlooked so I don't really think discussing it in this thread is appropriate.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:13 PM
 
Who else thinks Goreim is kinda overlooked?
Jun. 28, 2014  10:15 PM
 
I think it has too much recoil but it may be good with Gryph.

Orojya Gargole SR200 RDF vs. Duo Pegasis III BGrin

OG: 8 wins, 7 OS, 1 KO
Duo: 2 wins, all OS

OG win rate: 80

vs. Flash Pegasis SA165 (ZGA) R2F

Flash: 4 wins, all KO
OG: 6 wins, all OS

Win rate: 60%
Jun. 28, 2014  10:21 PM
 
Actually, I kinda like Goreim with Wyvang. Wyvang is still doing most of the work, but if you only have one Wyvang, its a good substitute for Wyvang Wyvang because Goreim doesnt cover the contact points.

So yeah, I'd agree its "overlooked".
Jun. 28, 2014  10:26 PM
 
I think Goreim Goreim SR200 TB is top tier, but I gave it to my cousin for a tournament & from what I've seen, it isn't that great. I like using Goreim & Saramanda for sway; they've been much more effective for me than Wyvang. Personally, I still think Saramanda has undiscovered potential for something...I just don't know what.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:27 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:15 PM)Ocean Wrote: I think it has too much recoil but it may be good with Gryph.

Orojya Gargole SR200 RDF vs. Duo Pegasis III BGrin

OG: 8 wins, 7 OS, 1 KO
Duo: 2 wins, all OS

OG win rate: 80

vs. Flash Pegasis SA165 (ZGA) R2F

Flash: 4 wins, all KO
OG: 6 wins, all OS

Win rate: 60%
Da heck did it get those numbers?

You must not be to good with attack .
Jun. 28, 2014  10:30 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:27 PM)DRAGON KING EX Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:15 PM)Ocean Wrote: I think it has too much recoil but it may be good with Gryph.

Orojya Gargole SR200 RDF vs. Duo Pegasis III BGrin

OG: 8 wins, 7 OS, 1 KO
Duo: 2 wins, all OS

OG win rate: 80

vs. Flash Pegasis SA165 (ZGA) R2F

Flash: 4 wins, all KO
OG: 6 wins, all OS

Win rate: 60%
Da heck did it get those numbers?

You must not be to good with attack .
No, it's the RDF. It's so mint. I'm fine with ATK.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:32 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:30 PM)Ocean Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:27 PM)DRAGON KING EX Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:15 PM)Ocean Wrote: I think it has too much recoil but it may be good with Gryph.

Orojya Gargole SR200 RDF vs. Duo Pegasis III BGrin

OG: 8 wins, 7 OS, 1 KO
Duo: 2 wins, all OS

OG win rate: 80

vs. Flash Pegasis SA165 (ZGA) R2F

Flash: 4 wins, all KO
OG: 6 wins, all OS

Win rate: 60%
Da heck did it get those numbers?

You must not be to good with attack .
No, it's the RDF. It's so mint. I'm fine with ATK.
oh, that makes the flash tests more believable, but makes the duo tests even less believable.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:34 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:32 PM)DRAGON KING EX Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:30 PM)Ocean Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:27 PM)DRAGON KING EX Wrote: Da heck did it get those numbers?

You must not be to good with attack .
No, it's the RDF. It's so mint. I'm fine with ATK.
oh, that makes the flash tests more believable, but makes the duo tests even less believable.

SR200 destabilizes, blew RDFs have more stamina. Try it out.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:36 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:34 PM)Ocean Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:32 PM)DRAGON KING EX Wrote:
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:30 PM)Ocean Wrote: No, it's the RDF. It's so mint. I'm fine with ATK.
oh, that makes the flash tests more believable, but makes the duo tests even less believable.

SR200 destabilizes, blew RDFs have more stamina. Try it out.
can you do a video? U might just have a combo to post.
Jun. 28, 2014  10:38 PM
 
Maybe, I still need to touch it up.
I knew Orojya was fine.
Jun. 29, 2014  12:32 AM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  10:21 PM)Tr! Wrote: Actually, I kinda like Goreim with Wyvang. Wyvang is still doing most of the work, but if you only have one Wyvang, its a good substitute for Wyvang Wyvang because Goreim doesnt cover the contact points.

So yeah, I'd agree its "overlooked".

Try Ifraid. It exposes Wyvang's contact points quite well and provides some Upper Smash too. I have some lonely testing over in the Ifraid discussion that needs some testing friends to confirm Unhappy

One part that I think needs some testing for Limited is Orion. It's a modest 3g, but it has some nice slopes on it which allow it to be slightly Attack-y and actually allows it to destabilize opponents.

Look at this testing I did with a random destabilizer-style Burn setup.

Burn Cancer W145WD vs Burn Orion 105SF
Orion wins: 15 (8 OS, 7 KO)
Cancer wins: 5 (all OS)
Orion %: 75%

Now, that isn't really good enough to merit Orion being useful as purely a destabilizer (especially since the rest of the setup is untested), but I expect it may help Burn MF and LTSCs gain an additional edge against taller opponents.

I was going to try using that Burn destabilizer in a tournament today, but my SF broke during free play, and so I was not able to use it.
Jun. 29, 2014  12:44 AM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  9:42 PM)Echizen Wrote: Yeah, I wondered why people stopped, it seems as though its recoil wasn't that bad and it was pretty round, so I think in synchrome with itself or Genbull it could do well in something. Maybe on TB? I thought Saramanda could be some alternate for Killerken or Reviser. It may have use in some Balance customs though. I won't be home to test until a few hours.

@DKEX, Yeah, but not many people use it TBH.

It is quite possibly the most popular clear wheel in MD... Tech especially is absolutely obsessed with it.
(Jun. 28, 2014  9:56 PM)Wombat Wrote: I prefer RSF over RB for the most part. RSF doesn't jump the Tornado Ridge as much, and is easier to launch aggressively.

I'm pretty sure Saramanda was outclassed by most other Chrome Wheels, and Gargole is as well. It works ok on Dragooon Spin Equalizers but Revizer, Killerken, Genbull, and Zirago work much better, and with at least 2 of those being more common you don't see it around much.

The reason Hades sees such little use is that it's hard to find, and usually not worth finding since Cancer is more or less equal to it, and much easier to get. I'm also pretty sure the only Metal Wheel it's been tested on is Phantom in Attack mode, making me wonder if it's good on Duo at all. Cancer and Cygnus, and to an extent Aquario and Bull, all have that streamlined shape that make them fit well on Duo, while Hades is a little more blocky. I can't really think of a better way to explain this other than Hades fits well inside of Phantom but not so well on top of Duo. It's because of the way the Wheels are designed.

I know DefStamina88 uses Orojya a lot, so maybe he knows something about it we don't. Someone should ask him.

If you look at the way Hades lines up on Scythe it is actually kind of fantastic, better even than Pegasis II in my opinion.
Jun. 29, 2014  1:00 AM
 
I'd say EWD is overlooked, it's a pretty CS-like Tip that's extremely flat with a Sharp tip with great endurance.
Jun. 29, 2014  1:02 AM
 
EWD is used on many customs and has placed a lot in events. I'm not sure how that is overlooked.
Jun. 29, 2014  1:03 AM
 
Nah, EWD is top tier for spin-stealers & included alongside WD for certain stamina combos. Definitely not underrated, it's just that it's harder to get than WD.
Jun. 29, 2014  7:12 PM
 
(Jun. 28, 2014  8:41 PM)Echizen Wrote:
Spoiler (Click to View)

I was actually looking into Orojya (in Standard) a little while back. I'll posts tests a little later on! Smile
Jun. 29, 2014  7:15 PM
 
I had done some MSF Gryph Orojya 85RS and it did really well against MSF-H Wyvang Girago H145R2F. I did a small amount though.

I can do some now. What were you thinking?
Jun. 29, 2014  7:28 PM
 
(Jun. 29, 2014  7:15 PM)Echizen Wrote: I had done some MSF Gryph Orojya 85RS and it did really well against MSF-H Wyvang Girago H145R2F. I did a small amount though.

I can do some now. What were you thinking?

Possibly try out Orojya Dragoon BD145RDF/RSF, as a substitute for both Reviser and Genbull on both Dragoon, BD145, and RDF. Adding a benchmark comparing results between the two variants would be great, as well! Smile
Jun. 29, 2014  8:11 PM
 
Orojya Dragooon BD145RDF Vs. Phantom Gasher W145WD

OD: 8(3 KO, 5OS)
PG: 2(All OS)
Ties: 13

Orojya Win Percentage: 80%

Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF Vs. Phantom Gasher W145WD

RD: 6(2 KO, 4OS)
PG: 4(All OS)
Ties: 8

Reviser Win Percentage: 60%
Jun. 29, 2014  8:54 PM
 
How about adding AS to that list? Perhaps FB too.
Jun. 29, 2014  10:51 PM
 
(Jun. 29, 2014  8:54 PM)DRAGON KING EX Wrote: How about adding AS to that list? Perhaps FB too.

As I don't see having the tip having too much of a usage anymore, I do remember Snoop Dog MS making a thread involving MSF Wyvang Dragoon SA165FB a little while back.

Regardless of that one combo thread I've seen utilizing FB while I was active, I do agree about having that added, too!

As I brought up doing test with Orojya, I thought I'd do some testings for attack later tonight, as I already told Echizen.
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