MFB: Standard :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread

The tests conflicting with mine were from Ingulit and Cannon, though, and they're both global mods (and very likely more accurate than me, especially back then), so I'm inclined to believe it just had to do with something I was doing wrong.

Like I said, my testing/opinion was very likely flawed in some way, so basing your statement on what I said about the wheel is shaky.
Yeah from here (and any discussion about whether or not something works really) the place to go is testing - Tri, if you could write out the specific combination(s) you're talking about, and any other relevant detail, like launch or even maybe opponents you were using for other people to test for themselves that'd be good, obviously I know you're going to want to do your own testing, but this should provide more tests for a thread to start with, or show up anything weird that might be going on early.
I used Pegasus Girago/Genbull E230MB.

The launch depended greatly on the opponent. Against mid height and high (145-200) stamina combos, I made sure I launched regularly at 100% each time, to assure I get as much spin velocity as possible to grind on the opponent. Against high stamina with 230, well, I banked slightly to get more contact although at that height you won't have much luck.

My combinations I have put it up against so far are listed below with notes on how it did against them:
  • Duo B : D - Destablized it with no problem.
  • Duo W145 - Destroyed
  • Duo SR200 TB/WD - Had more trouble against than lower heights but still got the job done.
  • Duo 230 - Defnitely didn't do to well. At this height, E230 couldn't do it's job.
  • Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD - did terrible, it Defnitely didn't have the potential to destabilize Dragooon mostly because of Dragooons height I believe.

I haven't written detailed results because I'm to lazy but I'll try to get them soon.
I haven't seen F230 in action yet but from what I've read on here its a pain I lived in Florida for a while but never saw it cause I have never participated in a tournament before I haven't seen it in cali yet either. I would like to know all of its weaknesses so when I do eventually face it I can counter it. Sorry if this counts as spam.
It's "a pain" in Zero-G. Here in Standard, it can be countered by much.
Old Post:
(Jul. 14, 2014  6:57 PM)Angry Face Wrote: After seeing Stars' Scythe Zero-G Stamina combo pop up in the Winning Combos thread some months back, I became very curious about how Duo fares against Scythe, a matchup I was unfamiliar with.

I went back to the Duo's discussion thread to search for mirror tests between it and Scythe, but out of the thread's 17 pages, there were only ever 4 sets done, and by 3 members: (Click to View)

I finally had the the chance to do some personal Stamina Wheel comparisons last week, but some of the results may surprise you.

Equipment:
Red SK Attack Stadium
Beylauncher
Launcher Rubber

Conditions:
All launches alternated
Bottoms always swapped 15 rounds in
WDs and TBs mint at start
Worn Phantom
Worn Duo
New Scythe
All Wheels in their Stamina Modes
Hasbro and Takara Pegasis IIs


Phantom Pegasis II AD145WD vs Scythe Pegasis II AD145WD:
Phantom: 22 (20 OS, 2 KO)
Scythe: 8 (7 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 1
Winner: Phantom

This went as expected, matching the results most people got back in the Phantom Discussion thread, as well as my own previous experiences.


Phantom Pegasis II AD145WD vs Duo Pegasis II AD145WD:
Phantom: 19 (17 OS, 2 KO)
Duo: 11 (10 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 0
Winner: Phantom

This surprised me, though, as I thought my Duo used to outspin my Phantom (Guess not?).


Duo Pegasis II AD145WD vs Scythe Pegasis II AD145WD:
Duo: 14 OS
Scythe: 16 (15 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 2
Winner: Scythe


Duo Pegasis II 230TB vs Scythe Pegasis II 230TB:
Duo: 14 (13 OS, 1 KO)
Scythe: 16 (15 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 0
Winner: Scythe

The results between these two were much closer than they were against my Phantom individually. If followup tests are similar, maybe we could begin looking into Scythe as a cheaper alternative to Duo? Or at least a competitive Stamina Wheel again?


I completely forgot that I'd already done these Duo-Scythe Stamina comparison tests, so I just finished doing them again... Nobody ever commented on the original results I posted in the Overlooked Parts Discussion and Testing thread, but maybe it'll be different this time?

Anyway, here are the new tests, but in the Burst Standard Type BeyStadium, as I didn't have either of my MFB Attack Type Beystadiums on me when I found the time to do these.


Equipment:
B-04 Beyblade Burst Standard Type BeyStadium
Beylauncher L/R
Karabiner Grip
Launcher Rubber

Conditions:
Unused WDs (I'd been saving them just for these tests, ha)
Heavily used Duo (42.3g)
Lightly used Scythe (40.1g)
Heavily used Phantom (42.4g)


Duo Pegasis II AD145WD vs. Phantom Pegasus II AD145WD
Alternated launches - Duo launched first Round 1.
FBs, CWs, Tracks, and Bottoms swapped 10 rounds in.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Duo: 8 (7 OS, 1 KO)
Phantom: 12 (11 OS, 1 KO)
Duo Win %: 40.0%


Scythe Pegasus II AD145WD vs. Phantom Pegasis II AD145WD
Alternated launches - Scythe launched first Round 1.
FBs, CWs, Tracks, and Bottoms swapped 10 rounds in.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Duo: 3 OS
Phantom: 17 OS
Scythe Win %: 15.0%


Scythe Pegasis II AD145WD vs. Duo Pegasus II AD145WD
Alternated launches - Scythe launched first Round 1.
FBs, CWs, Tracks, and Bottoms swapped 10 rounds in.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Scythe: 11 OS
Duo: 10 OS
Scythe Win %: 55.0%


Based on these results, my Scythe and Duo still appear to be about on par with each other in mirror matches, but Duo still performs better against my Phantom than Scythe. I'd also like to do some more tests between Scythe and some modern heavyweight spin-equalizers to see if it fares as well against most of them as Duo.
Seriously, is Scythe beating Duo really not surprising or interesting to anyone? Duo is absurdly priced, so Scythe could potentially be a much cheaper alternative Metal Wheel for Stamina...
(Dec. 30, 2015  7:48 AM)Angry Face Wrote: Seriously, is Scythe beating Duo really not surprising or interesting to anyone? Duo is absurdly priced, so Scythe could potentially be a much cheaper alternative Metal Wheel for Stamina...

I did some tests comparing Duo and Scythe vs. Dragooon, and it seems like Duo outperforms Scythe (although there are many other factors like weight variations, B:D/EWD spin time, etc.), but most of the battles were close enough that they really could have gone either way...

MF-L Duo Cancer B:D vs. MSF-L Killerken Dragooon SA165 (Normal) EWD
Cancer: 12 wins (all OS)
Dragooon: 8 wins (all OS)
10 ties redone
Cancer win rate: 60%

MF-L Scythe (Stamina) Cancer B:D vs. MSF-L Killerken Dragooon SA165 (Normal) EWD
Cancer: 8 wins (all OS)
Dragooon: 12 wins (all OS)
5 ties redone
Cancer win rate: 40%

Can't get the exact weights for my Duo and Scythe ATM, but both my B:D and EWD are pretty good spin time wise. Usually my B:D always beats my SA165EWD on pretty much any setup, so these results were unusual for me to say the least.
I really appreciate those tests, Wombat!

Would you mind also doing a mirror Stamina test between your Scythe and Duo? Even if Scythe can't match Duo against Left-Spin Stamina on B:D, based on H8R, Stars, and my tests, their performance against each other has been somewhat of an enigma.
Hey, working on tests now. Will have them up soon. Smile
(Dec. 31, 2015  1:17 AM)Angry Face Wrote: I really appreciate those tests, Wombat!

Would you mind also doing a mirror Stamina test between your Scythe and Duo? Even if Scythe can't match Duo against Left-Spin Stamina on B:D, based on H8R, Stars, and my tests, their performance against each other has been somewhat of an enigma.

Scythe (Stamina) Cancer AD145WD vs. Duo (Stamina) Cancer AD145WD
Scythe: 5 wins (all OS)
Duo: 15 wins (all OS)
Scythe win rate: 25%

None of my WDs are completely unused at this point, unfortunately, but I picked two that had similar levels of wear in that I had only used them a few times. For the first 10 rounds, it depended on who was launched first, since I alternated launches for every round. After I swapped all of the parts around after round 10 Duo won the next 10 rounds straight, so clearly the difference was due to the other parts. If Scythe needs the "better" parts to keep up with Duo then I'm inclined to say it's worse, but with all the variation in 4D parts who really knows.
Scythe Cancer B:D vs. Killerken Dragooon B:D
B:Ds and launches swapped every five rounds.
Scythe: 16/20 (ALL OS)
Killerken Dragooon: 4/20 (3 OS, 1 KO)
Scythe win rate: 80%

Duo Cancer B:D vs. Killerken Dragooon B:D
B:Ds and launches swapped every five rounds.

Duo: 15/20 (13 OS, 2 KO)
Killerken Dragooon: (1 OS, 4 KO)
Duo win rate: 75%

Here are my tests. Like Wombat experienced, they were definitely super close and could have easily went the other way around. For stamina (against Dragooon at least), it is kind of hard to say which one did the better job, but there are other factors aside from stamina that someone like a newer players would want to consider when buying Scythe as opposed to Duo. Scythe does better on low-track RS defense while Duo works better on the far more versatile BD145RDF/RF. Duo also is good paired with 230MB for destabilization. It would be interesting to see if Scythe preforms just as well as Duo on those setups.
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Pegasis-Pegasis-R145RF

we should seriously test this more. alex mecer used a Pegasis ^2 combo and won't [it was also able to KO, Diablo and Wyvang Dragooon Anti-Attacker!!!]
It definitely comes off as no surprise to me that it KO'ed a Wyvang Dragooon combo, but what Diablo one?
(Mar. 30, 2016  1:14 PM)Mitsu Wrote: It definitely comes off as no surprise to me that it KO'ed a Wyvang Dragooon combo, but what Diablo one?

i don't remember excatly but i used Diablo Kerbeces TR145RF once. i don't remember who but i think someone used Diablo BD145RF. Maximum Dranzer used it too, and KOed my Behemoth ^2 BD145RF
(Mar. 30, 2016  2:54 PM)FIREFIRE Wrote:
(Mar. 30, 2016  1:14 PM)Mitsu Wrote: It definitely comes off as no surprise to me that it KO'ed a Wyvang Dragooon combo, but what Diablo one?

i don't remember excatly but i used Diablo Kerbeces TR145RF once. i don't remember who but i think someone used Diablo BD145RF. Maximum Dranzer used it too, and KOed my Behemoth ^2 BD145RF

No, I have never used Diablo with BD145RF . Actually it might have been hell kerbecs. Since I have never battled with you when I had a diablo. Grin And that Pegasus Pegasus combo was the one which I and Alex Mercer used lol
(Mar. 31, 2016  8:07 AM)Maximum Dranzer Wrote:
(Mar. 30, 2016  2:54 PM)FIREFIRE Wrote:
(Mar. 30, 2016  1:14 PM)Mitsu Wrote: It definitely comes off as no surprise to me that it KO'ed a Wyvang Dragooon combo, but what Diablo one?

i don't remember excatly but i used Diablo Kerbeces TR145RF once. i don't remember who but i think someone used Diablo BD145RF. Maximum Dranzer used it too, and KOed my Behemoth ^2 BD145RF

No, I have never used Diablo with BD145RF . Actually it might have been hell kerbecs. Since I have never battled with you when I had a diablo. Grin And that Pegasus Pegasus combo was the one which I and Alex Mercer used lol

lol TR145 was typo, i mean BD145 lel [as i was thinking about it beyhah]

anyways try to test it. if i can get a Samurai Pegasis [i had 3 lost 1 at event and 1 i given as gift to friend]
are fake beys illegal? (if not i would be surprized!)
(Mar. 05, 2017  4:43 AM)bladerChris Wrote: are fake beys illegal? (if not i would be surprized!)

Well it's obviously illegal
can you mix takara tomy parts with hasbro parts? and can you use a hasbro launcher with a takara tomy handle?
(Mar. 13, 2017  6:10 PM)bladerZakk Wrote: can you mix takara tomy parts with hasbro parts? and can you use a hasbro launcher with a takara tomy handle?

In every gen but Burst, yes. You can not do it in burst though.
So MSF Killerken^2 E230MB came up in my mind as Genbu is too expensive. is this any good?