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MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread!

Dec. 07, 2013  10:33 PM
 
I've been struggling to decide whether I should bring my red Libra from BB-25 RBV2 out of retirement and use/test with it for Limited Format. The reason is because it is the heaviest among my four Libra Wheels:

BB-18 : 41.93
BB-96: 42.35
BB-25 Black: 42.36
BB-25 Red: 42.52

The difference isn't huge, but hey, every .1 gram counts. It's just so rare now that I don't know if it's worth it! What I'm curious about though is what weights other people have for their Libras. The 40.5 grams listed on Beywiki seems inaccurate to me.
Dec. 07, 2013  10:51 PM
 
I don't own a Libra, but...... I did hear that the Red's hard to get. I know every gram counts, but trust me, I think the Black will do just fine.

Ahh, I did own a Black Libra at one point.... And it was 42
.40
Dec. 07, 2013  10:59 PM
 
IMO erring on the side of "caution"/it doesn't actually do anything important is probably the smarter choice for your red Libra.

Besides, lets say it does make a difference (I really..really doubt it) who can get their hands on it easily anyway? The difference would have to be substantial to put it above an easier to get version of Libra. Libra would also ideally have to be better than Earth, too, for it to be really really worth it.

I think it would be a lose-lose. Keep it safe, see if other regular Libra's reach over your red.
Or use it.




no regrets homie DJ 2002 - Yeah!
Dec. 07, 2013  11:14 PM
 
(Dec. 06, 2013  2:37 PM)Tri Wrote: Does anybody know the official weight of the Metal Fury Duo? I think it'd do amazing for stamina (and possibly defense?) in this format, but if it is even lighter than Eartg or Burn, tere really wouldn't be a point in using it. So if someone has a gram scale, I'd really appreciate it.

I don't have a gram scale, but it gets knocked around pretty easily. It might have potential in stamina though. The metal fury scythe might have potential, thoughts?
Dec. 08, 2013  1:49 AM
 
(Dec. 07, 2013  10:59 PM)Dan Wrote: Besides, lets say it does make a difference (I really..really doubt it) who can get their hands on it easily anyway? The difference would have to be substantial to put it above an easier to get version of Libra. Libra would also ideally have to be better than Earth, too, for it to be really really worth it.

Well, it does make a difference even if it isn't easily observable. My main question was wanting to know how heavy Libra can really get. I am wondering if there are any close to 43g out there; that would make it notable enough in my opinion.
Dec. 08, 2013  9:38 AM
 
I did a Limited Format round robin with my brothers, and we ended up with:

Combos (Click to View)

We agreed that we're not allowed to use the same combo twice, so we had to adjust on the go. Beys were chosen, then held out in a fist and released for choice. We tripled the matches so there would be a better idea of match ups in a 'tournament' scenario. The non-playing brother judged. Matches went as below:

Matches (Click to View)

Final Standings:
1st: Kujikato 5-1 (15-3)
2nd: Blitz 3-3 (10-13)
3rd: Rioge 2-4 (6-14)

That loss was embarrassing.
Dec. 09, 2013  3:26 AM
 
I haven't did official tests due to the lack of a BB-10 but, Metal Fury's Wing Cancer 90SF is serving as a nice barrage attacker/destabilizer in my Hyper Strike Beystadium against Death/Earth Pegasus III W145SD/WD and did a decent job knocking it against the walls with LRF but not compared to Gravity.Can Someone please do an official BB-10 test.
Dec. 09, 2013  6:36 AM
 
What do you guys think of leviathan ronin/revizer dark knight? It could have potential as spin steal under meteo. Despite its balance issues, it could have a place, as well as kraken/killerken
Dec. 09, 2013  1:33 PM
 
Has anyone thought of trying (Metal Fury) Phantom for Stamina?

I'd be interested in Phantom 230 D and SR200 TB testing.
Dec. 09, 2013  1:44 PM
 
(Dec. 09, 2013  1:33 PM)Leone19 Wrote: Has anyone thought of trying (Metal Fury) Phantom for Stamina?

I'd be interested in Phantom 230 D and SR200 TB testing.

I did try and test Phantom, but it's just like a seconed Earth wheel. I see more in Scythe (Metal Fury) then Phantom (Metal Fury). I could post my test results, but it'll kinda be the same as some Earth tests.
Dec. 09, 2013  4:45 PM
 
All of that kinda stuff was thought about before the format launched, but no one involved with time to test had like any of the metal fury wheels. Galaxy blade, if you could do 20 rounds against an otherwise identical earth combo with those two wheels (and duo if you have it), swapping the parts other than the metal wheel after 10 rounds I know I wouldn't be alone in appreciating having that data recorded. A lot of the metal fury stamina and defense wheels seem similar to earth but that is not really a bad thing given earth is basically the gold standard for defense and probably stamina too (if only because it'd lower recoil makes it easier to test stamina against than burn (and also safer against tourney filler, which has traditionally been the advantage of low recoil stamina over higher recoil stamina - later repeated with death/duo and phantom). As for scythe, I am also curious to see if it has any attack potential, as the original is deceptively aggressive and/or recoil, and it's sheer size may be an offensive asset in limited
Dec. 10, 2013  12:30 AM
 
Time to bust out the old Earth wheel.

BURN BULL DF145SD FTW!

But yeah, this is gonna be awesome. I'm gonna love this format. Although RS didn't really need a ban, it's balance and stamina suck.
Dec. 11, 2013  4:57 PM
 
Well, we're a week in and still no Metal Fury Duo thread - or any real tests that I've seen... Come on guys, I need to know whether I need to get someone to buy this thing for me from the US before christmas, or I'm just going to buy Zero G stuff instead (for limited, of course - I'll get a Zero G attack stadium one day, but right now I am focused on this wonderful, beautiful format). I don't want to buy it only to find out "wow this is broke as all heck we have to ban this now" and never touch it again, so please, tests? :c
Dec. 12, 2013  12:19 AM
 
(Dec. 11, 2013  4:57 PM)th!nk Wrote: Well, we're a week in and still no Metal Fury Duo thread - or any real tests that I've seen... Come on guys, I need to know whether I need to get someone to buy this thing for me from the US before christmas, or I'm just going to buy Zero G stuff instead (for limited, of course - I'll get a Zero G attack stadium one day, but right now I am focused on this wonderful, beautiful format). I don't want to buy it only to find out "wow this is broke as all heck we have to ban this now" and never touch it again, so please, tests? :c

I'm getting mine for Christmas, so I have to wait until then to post tests, haha! I am surprised nobody has posted a thread for it yet... I'm guessing nobody has it, because it seems like it should have been one of the first things tested :\
Dec. 12, 2013  12:21 AM
 
If only I had a BB-10 right now, I'd be testing that every-which way, haha.

If anything, 230 D and W145 WD should be top priorities for Stamina.

I'd love to try this on SR200 TB, haha.
Dec. 12, 2013  12:47 AM
 
From what I have heard and from personal experience, past wave 1 of metal fury was actually around for a very limited time in the United States (same with hyperblades) so there may not actually be many in people's possession.
Dec. 12, 2013  12:08 PM
 
(Dec. 12, 2013  12:21 AM)Leone19 Wrote: If only I had a BB-10 right now, I'd be testing that every-which way, haha.

If anything, 230 D and W145 WD should be top priorities for Stamina.

I'd love to try this on SR200 TB, haha.

Hm? No, LTSC are probably safer choices as they're harder to hit for most attack types, especially compared to 230 with an overhanging wheel like duo, though that overhang and duo's width will mean finding a track height that doesn't scrape.
Also, EWD is generally a much better choice than WD in this format because otherwise the spin stealers that seem to be quite popular will wreck you if you use anything else, it seems - perhaps Duo will be good enough not to care, but Earth, Burn, Libra, and Virgo all seem to need EWD to handle MLD/GP(STA) B: D and MLD 100EWD properly, which is why I suggested adding EWD and B: D to the potentially bannable parts list yesterday - these spin stealers greatly reduce the importance of track choice in stamina and really hurt 230/TH170 because EWD doesn't work well with tall tracks (just like WD), but any other tip I tried seems unable to handle spin stealers, at least with the parts I have.

That said in Duo's case, I'm more interested in its defense ability.
Dec. 12, 2013  12:35 PM
 
My Super Deck Set should be here today, my Duo Ice Titan might be here tomorrow or Saturday with my Firefuse Darkhelm, and my Phantom Orion might not get here till next Monday or Tuesday if it doesn't come Wednesday. So I should be able to do some pretty hefty testing, hopefully.
Dec. 12, 2013  12:44 PM
 
Awesome, I'd really appreciate that. In the meantime I'll see if any of the ebay sellers would be willing to remove the gigantic amounts of packaging and launchers and ripcords and just ship me the tops to save on shipping cost, though none of those that have Duo and Beat seem to have Phantom, Scythe or Cosmic (of the sellers who actually ship to Australia). If anyone by some stroke of luck still has them in their local stores and is willing to help me out, let me know haha. Guess I'll just get money from some relatives for christmas and wait and see.
Dec. 12, 2013  4:00 PM
 
This is worth a new post, I think.
Weighed my heavier limited-legal tracks (and SA165) while playing around with SA165 just now, for comparison's sake. However, I couldn't find my calibration weight, so these are only good for comparing to each other as my scale could be out by a few mg in either direction, so don't go quoting them etc.

Weights in Here (Click to View)

The main thing that surprised me - if perhaps only because I haven't got this stuff memorised from beywiki - is that TH170 is almost exactly the same weight as GB145.

So I did some testing, and also tested SA165 while I was at it, though the attack combo I was using is probably not going to be hurt by SA165 that badly.

I also did some tests. (Also wow I wish Beytest had worked while I was on holiday this is WAY easier than writing this stuff up manually).

RF is worn, but pretty close to prime performance wise, CS is quite rounded, not aggro. Numbers after TH indicate the height it is at.

MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK, Counter) R145RF (Left) vs. MF-H Earth Aquario GB145CS
Redid this because I realised I was using a near mint gravity and a different earth, which I didn't use for my huge test posts.
Earth always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Gravity: 16 (0 OS, 16 KO)
Earth: 4 (2 OS, 2 KO)
Gravity Win %: 80.0%

Gravity had more trouble here than it did against TH170, more than what was reflected in the results, too, I think.

MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK, Counter) R145RF (Left) vs. MF-H Earth Aquario TH170CS
Earth always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Gravity: 17 (1 OS, 16 KO)
Earth: 3 (3 OS, 0 KO)
Gravity Win %: 85.0%

This was the first set of tests I did, gravity had very little trouble here.

MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK, Counter) R145RF (Left) vs. MF-H Earth Aquario TH195CS
Earth always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Gravity: 19 (0 OS, 19 KO)
Earth: 1 (1 OS, 0 KO)
Gravity Win %: 95.0%

Odd, I always remembered TH195 being best against 145. Perhaps that was only the case when both are tornado stalling or for stamina or something, idk.

MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK, Counter) R145RF (Left) vs. MF-H Earth Aquario SA165CS
SA165 in Zero G Attack Mode
Earth always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Gravity: 14 (0 OS, 14 KO)
Earth: 6 (5 OS, 1 KO)
Gravity Win %: 70.0%

This was kinda weird. Earth was murdering Gravity, then Gravity was murdering Earth. Odd and maybe I'll redo them tomorrow or something, as right now I'm starting to ache a lot for some reason.


That's not too bad in terms of how fair SA165 might be (assuming nothing is up with those results), a 10% drop is not that serious. However, from informal testing with other wheels and heights, this gravity combo seems to be among the least affected of the things I've tried, and coupled with RSF it could worsen the troubles of the right spin attack wheels that make up most of the format's legal wheels, as they seem to struggle more than left spin does with it (weight differences do tend to be more of an issue for right spin attack types than left spin ones, in my experience). Also, if we don't ban Gravity, the LAD boost SA165 gives it could be problematic for some defense types (mostly thinking of chrome wheel defense which is already on shaky ground there against R145, but it could also affect certain other things, judging from the couple of OS's gravity r145 managed because of height matchups and spin stealing).


Back to TH170, while GB145 is apparently better against opposing 145 heights, TH170 did seem to be a better choice against CH120/CH145 in informal testing (CH145 worked better but overall still seemed worse off than 120 vs 145). Might test that tomorrow, assuming I am up to it.
Dec. 12, 2013  11:27 PM
 
Quick question...

I know there has to be a really good reason, but I would like to know why exactly limited format tournaments aren't processed through the beypoint system? I mean, they are tournaments, aren't they? You go, you play, and you either win or lose depending on who you play against and what they use.

We have points for Zero-G format (which is probably far more removed from standard format than limited is). It just seems a shame to go play in a tournament and then not see your rank change. We have some players , like Dan and th!nk, who obviously far prefer this format to others, but their ranks will never progress because their matches will never be processed. Unhappy

I think it would be awesome to have limited format tournaments processed through the beypoint system.

Of course, there's probably still some huge reason that I'm missing, LOL! XD
Dec. 12, 2013  11:47 PM
 
Maybe they do it to keep te beypoint system up to date with the current metagame? I don't know, I've wondered myself to be honest. Plastics and HMS are the same way.
Dec. 12, 2013  11:52 PM
 
I'm not sure you wanted me to answer, but......... I'm pretty sure they're not going to be that way(or for at least some time) Why?: This format just started, we've got a lot of work to do on it and as much as I feel like that too...... We might have to wait. Also, it's like a Plastic/HMS tournament. We do not count them as Ranking tournaments because it's a old style of blading and ment for fun. The same with this one; we're only aloud to play with MF or before that. Hope I helped.
Dec. 13, 2013  12:16 AM
 
Kei explained somewhere that Limited is currently still seen as being in an experimental stage, where an excessively strong unbanned part etc could affect the fairness of the beypoints system - basically we don't know for sure that it's balanced and so on. When that's sorted out, there's a possibility it could be mixed in like Zero G is and for similar reasons, though I imagine different parties involved in the decision may well see it differently.

Personally I like the idea of it staying separate because people can then play with parts that aren't the absolute best without worrying about it affecting their rank negatively - something I hope people take the opportunity to do while it's there, haha. That said, if it makes the format more popular, then that's good too because it's a great format and I would love to see it be as popular as the two main formats are.
Dec. 13, 2013  9:04 PM
 
Sorry if I have missed it, but has anyone tested Metal Fury Duo for Stamina?
I recall it having some very impressive results being posted in the Hasbro Testing thread.
(Granted these were in Hasbro Stadiums, but still.)

From what I remember about it, I believe the custom that was used was:

Duo_____W145 WD

It was pretty much able to OS anything that it went up against, including some Synchrome customs and Phantom customs.
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