MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread!

(Dec. 05, 2013  9:57 PM)( •_• ) Wrote:
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:52 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:48 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I'm thinking something more like MF-H Bakushin ____ 85RSF; it'd be low enough to the ground for its awesome shape to help deflect blows (in theory). I really want to test Metal Fury Wing on low tracks to see if it'd do the same thing, seeing as the 4D Wing acted like a ramp on low tracks in Standard.

I've experimented with it before, in my opinion, its really too hollow to do well on a low setup, but in this format without Basalt or Hell, everything changes. Tongue_out

I guess only testing will determine the answer. Tongue_out

As far as 4D bottoms go, has anyone thought about Libra or Earth BGrin for Stamina? I know it'd be lightweight (Earth) and BGrin is easyish to KO, but its just an idea, haha.
i was actually just think of that a few minutes ago, but Pegasus or gravity would kill earth and probaly libra.

Yeah, but at the same time, Stamina's weakness's are always Attack Types.
That's like saying Flash will kill Phantom, haha.

But, with no testing, nothing can be said. It'd be awesome if anyone wanted to test Libra/Earth BGrin against Defense and some Attack types. It may not be the greatest, but testing can't hurt, haha. Grin
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:59 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:57 PM)( •_• ) Wrote:
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:52 PM)Leone19 Wrote: I've experimented with it before, in my opinion, its really too hollow to do well on a low setup, but in this format without Basalt or Hell, everything changes. Tongue_out

I guess only testing will determine the answer. Tongue_out

As far as 4D bottoms go, has anyone thought about Libra or Earth BGrin for Stamina? I know it'd be lightweight (Earth) and BGrin is easyish to KO, but its just an idea, haha.
i was actually just think of that a few minutes ago, but Pegasus or gravity would kill earth and probaly libra.

Yeah, but at the same time, Stamina's weakness's are always Attack Types.
That's like saying Flash will kill Phantom, haha.

But, with no testing, nothing can be said. It'd be awesome if anyone wanted to test Libra/Earth BGrin against Defense and some Attack types. It may not be the greatest, but testing can't hurt, haha. Grin

Worth a shot. So that's what I'm going to do, but I lost my Libra, haha. Question: When the tests are done, where do I post them? Oh, if it's possible, can you list what you'd like me to test against? EX: Earth Aquario 85RSF.
(Dec. 06, 2013  12:44 AM)Galaxy Blade Wrote:
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:59 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Dec. 05, 2013  9:57 PM)( •_• ) Wrote: i was actually just think of that a few minutes ago, but Pegasus or gravity would kill earth and probaly libra.

Yeah, but at the same time, Stamina's weakness's are always Attack Types.
That's like saying Flash will kill Phantom, haha.

But, with no testing, nothing can be said. It'd be awesome if anyone wanted to test Libra/Earth BGrin against Defense and some Attack types. It may not be the greatest, but testing can't hurt, haha. Grin

Worth a shot. So that's what I'm going to do, but I lost my Libra, haha. Question: When the tests are done, where do I post them? Oh, if it's possible, can you list what you'd like me to test against? EX: Earth Aquario 85RSF.
That's good, maybe a Gravity Attack combo and another Earth Stamina combo.

If they're decent-good, make a thread. Tongue_out
Has anyone tried out Lightning L Drago D125/CH120GF?
(Dec. 06, 2013  12:51 AM)Shining God MS Wrote: Has anyone tried out Lightning L Drago D125/CH120GF?

I think GF would be a bit wild, no? Tongue_out
Weak launch it, lol. But IMO, seriously, it could dominate with Defense being weak.
Defense is not weak at all.

Just because RB, RDF, RS, BD145, and E230 were banned doesn't put Attack ahead. Earth GB145CS, probably the weakest Defender we have (probably the standard format equivalent of Revizer Killerken BD145CS), can still hit 55% against Gravity in formal testing.

If anything, Defense is far more effective now. MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF can't hit above 30% against Wyvang.
Started preparing for the next Toronto tournament tonight. There's so many things to consider right now. And I forgot just how nimble everything used to be prior to the 4D System/Zero-G. Things were flying everywhere!
Question...

Will we possibly begin to award beypoints for limited format tournaments in the future? I mean, granted we still have to see how things play out, what to ban and what to maybe re-implement, but wouldn't it be kind of a drag to go to these tournaments and not get any points for them ever?

Plus, people who play Zero-G, HMS, and Plastics format are awarded beypoints for competition. Those formats are farther from standard than limited format is.
I think it would be cool if this limited format could be played in the Zero G stadiums. I mean, that's just more fun to add, haha!
(Dec. 06, 2013  4:17 AM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Question...

Will we possibly begin to award beypoints for limited format tournaments in the future? I mean, granted we still have to see how things play out, what to ban and what to maybe re-implement, but wouldn't it be kind of a drag to go to these tournaments and not get any points for them ever?

Plus, people who play Zero-G, HMS, and Plastics format are awarded beypoints for competition. Those formats are farther from standard than limited format is.

Personally, I was hoping they would be after we've determined a 'final' ban list. At this point, I see the Limited Format as being in a trial phase.

BeyPoints are actually not awarded for the HMS & Plastics Formats, though.
B: D never really worked well with smaller wheels as they tend to topple at low rpm. I think it will be pretty poor in this format but I'm giving mld a shot on it today and will post results.

@Kei :yeah, the fact everything is so nimble is one of my favourite things about limited. I imagine all our beylaunchers will be thankful to not be launching 70g combos for a change too haha.
I prefer to think of it as a developmental stage myself. I think we've already shown a balanced meta of this style is capable of being balanced and stable, and it definitely has a good fan base going. I am very excited to hear it could end up being part of the beypoint system.

I also am really excited to see interest being expressed from people who were around pre maximum series, and it gives me hope I might be able to get some tournaments going in Perth next year (a shame I will miss free entry but given how many inactive people I will need to contact and that I'm in holiday, I'm definitely looking at January at the soonest).
Earth B: D is utter fail. I've used Earth Aquario B: D before, since my Phantom was on it's AD145 RF set up, and it was horrendous.

Libra B: D though, interests me, mainly cause Libra's weight distribution comes the closest to Phantom, with Burn a very close second IMO.

Oh, and Rock Kerbecs ED145 RF had some success for me in the past.

EDIT: I might be looking into Pegasus CH120 RF and L-Drago 90 MF/WF/XF for attackers. I also have Pisces and Wolf for the HWS, anyone wants me to test those?

For future reference anyway, my Non-banned collection is: (Click to View)
Libra is not particularly edge distributed compared to burn, even earth might be very slightly more edge focused - and that's only looking at defensive wheels, rock, Leone, screw and Vulcan amongst others are all extremely edge focussed. There are also the metal fury wheels like duo and phantom. That said, I don't know why you're bothering with right spin b:d, unless left spin balance or stamina is really popular it's generally inferior to regular stamina set ups, especially with ewd being a thing.

I did give mld b: d a shot, my 6-7 Min solo BD is able to OS Earth Cancer Ad145wd, but struggled with ewd on the same and with Libra 85d from which it couldn't steal spin very effectively or use to stay upright late in the game. It probably deserves a thread if only to encourage use of ewd on 145 stamina, but I think Mld sometrack EWD will be better given that saw use when b:d was available, and personally I would rather be testing generic attack and defense combos.

Also if anyone is still worked about Libra as a defensive threat they should look at my screw tests as it performs slightly worse than earth for LTDC. Anti attack is going to be its main use, IMO.
Is Libra really that evenly distributed? That's interesting.

Seems like B: D will be rather ineffective in Limited then.

Are these Solo Spin times any good?

Solo Spin Times (Click to View)
Does anybody know the official weight of the Metal Fury Duo? I think it'd do amazing for stamina (and possibly defense?) in this format, but if it is even lighter than Eartg or Burn, tere really wouldn't be a point in using it. So if someone has a gram scale, I'd really appreciate it.
I am really liking L-Drago for Attack in Limited. While Lighting is there and does an amazing job L-Drago is also awesome.
Testing the Tried and True (Mass Generic Combo Testing)


I don't have many new, exciting parts to test so I figured I'd make myself useful by doing some of the more generic or well known stuff, mainly to provide some comparisons.

Today is Attack Metal Wheels on 145-Height Tracks vs MF-H Earth Aquario GB145CS
RF is a bit past prime, which is only really problematic on heavier stuff (Leone in particular was hard to get going, Gravity wasn't easy either, Screw was moderately tough). CS is worn, largely stationary, but at the point where wear won't affect it too much (post-testing edit: prediction was correct, it behaved the same the whole time). I'm using it over RSF so there is more definition in the winrates, to allow more effective comparison, not because it's a worthwhile defense tip on anything above 90. Tests are not quite in the order they were done but generally pretty close to it, I can't be bothered moving everything around.

Note that some of these wheels, for example Vulcan, do better in different height matchups. I have noted this where I think (based on informal testing) this is the case, so do not just judge wheels by this. That said, 145 is a very good height for attack, especially for wheels that have good synergy with R145.

Feel free to include these results in your Part Discussion Threads (though really you don't need my permission haha). I might make Gravity's myself soon (though if someone else wants to and has the three clear wheels, R145, a good CH120, and TR145 and/or F230+CF/GCF feel free to do it as I lack the latter two and think they may be important. Also if you do make sure you include a warning about the sonokong thing)

MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK) R145RF
Perseus in Counter Mode (helmets behind slopes), R145's wings under the jaws or whatever those are, as that has always worked best for me.

Right Spin:
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Gravity: 13/20 = 65% (All KO)
Earth: 7/20 = 35% (1KO, 6OS)

Perseus (ATK) is very important to Gravity. I recall it being even more noticeable against taller opponents but idk.

Left Spin:
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Gravity: 15/20 = 75% (All KO)
Earth: 5/20 = 25% (All OS)

Yeah, Gravity Perseus (ATK) is the best attack wheel outside of Metal Fury/ZG. I don't think it's enough to be banworthy, as it does get walled by MF-H Earth Bull 85RSF and probably other stuff too and kinda hard to get good speed out of because of its weight (and it really does need speed), but if it does come up for ban based on its performance as an Attack MW, a ban on Perseus (ATK) may be sufficient (though forcing Gravity to use the regular/defense CW for attack may be crueller than banning it outright, tbh).

MF-H Gravity Perseus (DEF) R145RF
Perseus in Counter Mode (helmets behind slopes), R145's wings under the jaws or whatever those are, as that has always worked best for me.

Right Spin:
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Gravity: 12/20 = 60% (All KO)
Earth: 8/20 = 40% (1KO, 7OS)

Not bad, but nothing compared to the ATK version.

Left Spin:
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Gravity: 10/20 = 50% (All KO)
Earth: 10/20 = 50% (All OS)

I hear plastic on metal contact and it's easy to see the heads of the clear wheel block major contact points in this direction. It's kinda impressive that gravity does comparatively decently despite that but really this is bad get the ATK version instead.

MF-H Leone R145RF
R145's wings under the wider paw-like protrusions, this seems to work best.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Leone: 10/20 = 50% (All KO)
Earth: 10/20 = 50% (1KO, 9OS)

Leone is way worse than it seemed to be from informal testing.
Maybe someone with a really powerful, well controlled sliding shot could make it work but I was really disappointed. I tried it again after testing Pegasis and Ray where I was surprised by the results I got in the other direction, and still no dice, it was down 6-5 after 11 rounds so I stopped. Maybe it needs a different height matchup but this is the combo that worked best for me in pre-testing, so I'm stumped.

MF-H Lightning L-Drago R145RF
R145's wings under heads which are over the scale-like parts rather than the claws.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Lightning: 14/20 = 70% (KO, OS)
Earth: 6/20 = 30% (KO, OS)

Lightning sends things further than gravity but is less consistent than Gravity Perseus (ATK), as the latter has more numerous and well exposed contact points. I have to say I don't think any attack ring or metal wheel has ever made better use of left spin offensively than lightning. It loves the destabilisation it causes, and the fact it doesn't lose much spin after each hit.
Lightning also strikes me as easier to use than Gravity, being a lot more forgiving launch strength wise, perhaps due to its lighter weight.


MF-H Screw Uranus R145RF
R145's wings under Screw's wings rather than between them. Very harsh banking
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Screw: 10/20 = 50% (All KO)
Earth: 10/20 = 50% (2KO, 8OS)

I don't think I even banked this hard when using Beat back in the day, but it worked pretty well, this was much better than I expected. Also, between this and the Discussion thread my screw is incredibly worn, though I have a couple of spares, it does seem to wear faster than other wheels (and not just those little protrusions at the sides), though it doesn't seem to have that big an effect on its performance.

MF-H Pegasis R145RF
R145's wings under the serrated parts of pegasis's wings.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Pegasis: 12/20 = 60% (All KO)
Earth: 8/20 = 40% (2KO, 6OS)

Not to detract from Pegasis' excellent performance, as it did seem more powerful than most of the other wheels I tested today bar Gravity and Lightning, but it's worth noting that Earth seemed to get a lot less wall saves against pegasis than any other wheel I tried (though Ray came close).

Pegasis should IMO be the third wheel on the standard opponents for attack (alongside Lightning and Gravity, replacing Screw), as it requires little in the way of banking, and it also has very solid vertical attack in both directions (though it would prefer not to need R145's weight when dealing with lower opponents as it kinda gets in the way). Also it comes in BB-95 I think it is, alongside Libra, so everyone who rushes out to get Libra despite already having Earth will have one.

MF-H Ray Kerbecs R145RF
Kerbecs' indentations aligned with the gaps between Ray's wings, R145 under bumpy parts of Ray's sides, which are probably its main contact points.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Ray: 9/20 = 45% (All KO)
Earth: 11/20 = 55% (2KO, 9OS)

Ray's design means it is probably better in this height matchup than against taller or shorter opponents. I think it really loves Kerbecs though, the two match up perfectly and this is a lot better than I ever got Ray to do back in the day.

Also worth mentioning I have another ray that is significantly lighter and I have more than one from both Takara and SonoKong (and no Hasbro ones) as far as I can recall so I'm not sure where it came from but yeah it sucks.

MF-H Vulcan Byxis H145RF
H145 chosen as it puts weight under Vulcan's wings and also may let it do something to lower opponents.
Fairly steep banking
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Vulcan: 9/20 = 45% (All KO)
Earth: 11/20 = 55% (2KO, 9OS)

Let me pre-empt the shocked questioning about Vulcan not doing exceptionally well here. Vulcan's legacy was built on Low Tracks (and primarily against 145 height opponents), and it IS legitimately great there, I was a huge fan of it back in the day. However, in a metagame with taller opponents it really suffers – it's not that great unless it can get a good height matchup, and I also find it doesn't do that well on anything above 120 or thereabouts in general. I'm not really sure why, but yeah. Its contact points are similar to Screw's, but there are less of them, and I think that is going to show in Limited.

EDIT 27 Dec 2013: After playing around some more, H145 might not actually have been a good track choice, as while it is helpful against LTDC, it seems to be making contact with Earth GB145 when the MW should be doing so instead. As such, GB145 is probably a better track. However, my second GB145 is basically broken, so I can't actually test that any more.

MF-H Quetzalcoatl GB145RF
GB145 chosen as it keeps clear of Quetz's force smash slopes and provides useful weight to it.
Fairly steep banking
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Quetzalcoatl: 12/20 = 60% (All KO)
Earth: 8/20 = 40% (2KO, 6OS)

This really surprised me as I have never got Quetz to do anything particularly great in the past. It seems kinda inconsistent within battles, a lot of the time it makes contact but does nothing, because of those round edges, but when its contact points hit they send things flying, so this doesn't seem to show in the numbers. It also managed to have earth ramp off it and out of the stadium once or twice which looked suspiciously close to upper attack, but it is hard to tell and of little consequence either way. It's worth noting Quetz also has force smash slopes that do sometimes work, so it looks quite promising overall.


Stuff I didn't test
I don't have Forbidden, Cloud, Crash, Divine, Infinity/Thunder (did we work out if those are the same thing or not?), Mercury, Pisces, Aries, Wolf, Aquario, Capricorne, Gemios, Escolpio, Hyper, Fury, Torch, Mirage, any Metal Fury Wheels and no Zero G aside from Saramanda, Revizer, Dragooon, and Samurai.

I will try the three MLD's tomorrow as Assault may be okay despite being outclassed by Lightning and just because I want numbers on them, as well as giving MF-H Libra GB145RF a shot to get a read on its offensive prowess, and probably also Samurai DragoOOOoOOOooOon while I'm at it. Depends how the blisters I got from blading all day feel in the morning haha.

Everything else I have did poorly in pre-testing before the format launched (and yes if I own it I tried it for Attack, aside from Sol, Bakushin, Earth, Gravity Perseus (Stamina Ver.), SonoKong Gravity, Revizer (I may have tried it I forget) – yes I even gave Dark a shot (it's better at defense)).

@Kujikato : metal system L drago did not work at all for me when I tried it Uncertain
Thanks for the tests th!nk, I'll add in Meteo with Assault (do you want Absorb as well?), Pisces and Wolf tests here soon, what track should I Pisces and Wolf (2 sided) with? As I don't have two GB145s or H145.

Can you try Rock Kerbecs ED145/R145/W145 RF? Kerbecs' chains on the ridged part of Rock. My brother used ED145 on it and likes it.

EDIT: Wait, so does Perseus cover the holes or not? I think I've been using Gravity in a less optimal setup then...
EDIT 2: Wonderful, I won't be able to do the tests, I just discovered that it wasn't my CS that was Aggro, it was the GB145. PERFECT.

EDIT 3: I've been experimenting with Gravity CH120 MF, I remember it being pretty nasty, maybe it'll become viable again? It's doing decently well in my tests. Left spin against LTDC in Right, and since LTDC in Left would be Gravity, countering with Right Spin on CH120 MF is ideal. Hmm...

230WB... or 230 MB...

EDIT 5:

Tests~

Benchmark (Click to View)
My GB145 broke.

MF Meteo L-Drago II (Assault) R145 RF vs MF-H Earth Bull ED145 CS
Meteo with heads over smooth jaw. R145's wings under exposed lobes (jagged jaw), Meteo works best like this for me. Calm CS. Worn RF with solid movement. Bull launched first on all launches.
L-Drago II: 10/20 (0 OS 10 KO)
Bull: 10/20 (8 OS 2 KO)
Ties: 1
L-Drago II Win Rate: 50%
All KOes were clean, strong KOes. Very vicious, yet not very consistent.

MF Meteo L-Drago II (Absorb) R145 RF vs MF-H Earth Bull ED145 CS
Meteo with heads over smooth jaw. R145's wings under exposed lobes (jagged jaw), Meteo works best like this for me. Calm CS. Worn RF with solid movement. Bull launched first on all launches.
L-Drago II: 6/20 (5 OS 2 KO 1 Many-Taps-Out)
Bull: 14/20 (14 OS 1 KO)
Ties: 3
L-Drago II Win Rate: 30%
Not enough UMPH in it to KO consistently. But when the UMPH came in, boom. Some close calls, and some OS wins, so I'd like to see it tried on TR145 by someone. This should be pretty good with more Stamina or LAD. The Many-Taps-Out was a funny KO where Meteo just tapped at Earth after knocking it to the Tornado Ridge (where Earth began to circle at an angle), then tapped it out at the exit; trolololololololololololololol.


MF Wolf AD145 RF vs MF-H Earth Bull ED145 CS
Calm CS. Worn RF with solid movement. Bull launched first on all launches.
Wolf: 1/10 (0 OS 1 KO)
Bull: 9/10 (8 OS 1 KO)
Wolf Win Rate: 10%
Wolf came close to KOing at times, but it honestly lived up to my expectations: looks good, does bad. It was hitting HARD, but not far enough. OHKO attacker. I stopped at 10 because I don't think it's worth looking into.


MF Pisces AD145 RF vs MF-H Earth Bull ED145 CS
Calm CS. Worn RF with solid movement. Bull launched first on all launches.
Pisces: 0/10 (0 OS 0 KO)
Bull: 10/10 (9 OS 1 KO)
Pisces Win Rate: %
Didn't think this would work, as Pisces is too round. It did push Earth around, mainly from speed. Not worth testing further unless for upper/force smash due to design. Think of the opposite of VariAres: VA has contact points only on side, Pisces only has them Top and Bottom

MF L-Drago R145 RF vs MF-H Earth Bull ED145 CS
R145's wings under L-Drago's Eyes (Head) works best like this for me. Calm CS. Worn RF with solid movement. Bull launched first on all launches.
L-Drago: 7/20 (0 OS 7 KO)
Bull: 13/20 (13 OS 0 KO)
L-Drago II Win Rate: 35%
OHKO. Literally. L-Drago is an OHKO attacker. It had 5 straight KOs (it's 3rd-7th KOs). Hit pretty hard, would do better lower.

MF Rock Kerbecs ED145 RF vs MF-H Earth Bull ED145 CS
Kerbecs' Chains aligned with Rock's 4 indents/ridges. Calm CS. Worn RF with solid movement. Bull launched first on all launches.
Kerbecs: 8/20 (0 OS 8 KO)
Bull: 12/20 (12 OS 0 KO)
Ties: 2
Kerbecs Win Rate: 40%
This combo is SO QUICK, the moment you hit the Tornado Ridge, BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. It also decided games quick. You either KO early or never KO at all. On top of that, plenty wall saves, could've done better.

Remember, this is MF Earth Bull ED145 CS
(Dec. 05, 2013  8:05 PM)Kujikato Wrote: True.

It's too light, but that gave me an idea:

Wyvang + Dark Knight?

Despite this post being fairly old (on the first page), I was playing around with Wyvang Dark Knight (awkwardest name everrrrrr) and I wasn't able to get a consistent smash. The custom vice versa is a different story. A thread will be up soon.
So Dark Knight Wyvang works? COOL!
I mean, it works, but Dark Knight covers some contacts points and its main attribute, left spin, is nullified because it is on the bottom.

There are better Crystal Wheels.
Actually, Dark Knight doesn't cover any of Wyvang's contact points except for the ones at the top, but there's plenty more for it still to work.

Plus most of Wyvang's contact comes from the top of the metal wheel.

There could still be other options, but Dark Knight doesn't cover any contact points.
Mass Generic Combo Testing Day 2 – Here Be Dragons

Same conditions etc as yesterday, and while the blisters and bandaids upon them as a result of blading all day yesterday are annoying, they shouldn't be affecting me too much. RF is still performing the same, etc etc.

MF-H Meteo L Drago (Assault Ver.) R145RF
Assault is the blue one in the dx set, heads over mouths, R145 wings under claws as those are its most effective contact points I guess (in retrospect putting them under the heads may have been a better choice as from the sound they seem to make contact more often).

MF-H Meteo L Drago (Assault Ver.) R145RF
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
MLD: 7/20 = 35% (All KO)
Earth: 13/20 = 65% (5KO, 8OS)

Assault is about as recoil prone as you'd expect haha.
Also its hits are kinda inconsistent. There are times when it had the speed to KO and bounced off harmlessly, obviously hitting with those round sides.
Overall it did worse than I expected and I think it could do a little better than this.

MF-H Meteo L Drago (Rush Ver.) R145RF
That's the red one that is really pointy in the dx set (the cool one that we were all sad to find out sucked as we were kinda hoping for lightning 2.0). Heads over mouths, r145 wings under claws.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
MLD: 6/20 = 30% (All KO)
Earth: 14/20 = 60% (1KO, 13OS)

Rush is like Lightning but awful. Don't use it.

MF-H Meteo L Drago (Absorb Ver.) R145RF
Heads over claws – in this configuration I can actually hear metal on metal contact and meteo seems more effective for pure attack. Wings under claws still.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
MLD: 10/20 = 50% (All KO)
Earth: 10/20 = 50% (2KO, 8OS)

This was a surprise but then MLD was on the CC Attack list for a while. The reason is that it is quite good at rolling things out of the stadium or rolling them onto their side with rubber then KOing with metal on the second part, which seems to be specific to the heads over claws mode. Also, I just want to point out that I had to do round 18 six times due to stamina draws.

MF-H L Drago R145RF
R145 Wings under heads.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
LDrago: 11/20 = 55% (10KO, 1OS)
Earth: 9/20 = 45% (1KO, 8OS)

Well I was wrong, LDrago does do okay as a regular Attack MW. The most noticeable aspect is its ability to destabilise, however it still gets outspun almost all the time (it is the first attacker to register an outspin so far though, but this may be due to CS wear as it did seem to get slightly worse throughout the MLD Absorb tests).

Kujikato is generally correct about it needing to KO in the first couple of hits, though wrong about it being a OHKO wheel – the cause of its trouble is a general lack of power rather than the massive drop in power after the initial hit that defines OHKO (and it does not suffer the regular recoil problems that were used for the incorrect application of that label in plastics, either).


Samurai Dragooon GB145RF
Samurai used because it's my only crystal wheel, not because it's good. Chrome Up, GB145 should let me bank deeper than H145 so I used that. I only have regular stone faces, which sucks as I think Dragooon probably needs the extra weight.
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
DragOOOn: 5/20 = 25% (KO, OS)
Earth: 15/20 = 75% (4KO, 11OS)

Dragooon could really use an MSF-H, but despite the results, what I saw makes me pretty excited for Chrome Wheel attackers in general (seriously why aren't there a tonne of wyvang/bahamootay/gryph/phoenic/balro/girago tests yet get on it guys).

MF-H Libra GB145RF
Detailed Results (Click to View)
Results:
Libra: 0/10 = 0% wow so stronk wbo pls nerf libra 2 hevvy
Earth: 10/10 = 100% (All OS)


@Wyvang Discussion: Less Talking More Testin plz, but I think Chrome Up is probably better for attack seeing as plastic probably won't let you do much to 230 opponents. That said left spin is good and might be able to just roll 230 out of the stadium with Dark Knight if it is suitably shaped so idk pls test. Don't make me waste Christmas money on ZG I may or may not need pls.
L-Drago = Win Grin

I see, I misused the term then, I'll watch out for that then. L-Drago is nifty for destabilization, I'd put money on it being the best L-Drago, if not the best L-spin destabilizer, unless Dark Knight or Dragooon show better guns. That being said, should we consider L-Drago on MF? It could do with more stamina.

IIRC, Rush was never good, it was confirmed on release that it was Absorb/Normal > Assault >>> Rush.

"Also, I just want to point out that I had to do round 18 six times due to stamina draws."
Meteo Absorb is just awesome. Rubber in left = win

Finally, can we get some tests done on the best mode for Meteo?
Rush isn't worth considering, so for
Assault and Absorb, which would work better? Heads over smooth or jagged (for the sake of not knowing their names)?
How should we test this? Using a plain 145 RF set up against Earth __145 CS?