MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Ingulit - Dec. 04, 2013
:: MFB: Limited ::
Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread
Welcome to the primer, random thoughts, and Q&A thread for the MFB: Limited format! In this format, Metal Fight Beyblades are used, but some parts are banned! Battles are conducted in the BB-10 Attack Type Stadium.
- If you want more detail about what the Limited format is, keep reading!
- If you just want to talk about the format in general or have a question about how Limited works, simply post here!
Remember, while you may discuss random thoughts pertaining to the Limited format, you need to follow the all the rules of the forum so you don't spam!
:: What is the Limited Format? ::
Limited is a brand new format for WBO-sponsored tournament play! It is almost the exact same as the MFB: Standard format, namely in that it is played using Metal Fight Beyblades in the BB-10 Attack Type Stadium. The main difference in the Limited format (both from Standard and from all other formats) is that Limited employs an extensive ban list, meaning certain parts are not allowed in Limited tournaments!
Why are some parts banned? The Limited ban list was created to remove parts deemed too powerful for the format, with the goal of creating a metagame where parts previously deemed uncompetitive have a chance to shine!
That's right, brush off your Earths and Crystal Wheels, because it's time for them to make their way into competitive play!
Another thing this format acknowledges is that the ban list is probably not perfect, meaning that there might be unbanned parts that are oppressively good, or there might be some banned parts that don't actually need to be banned. As such, another goal of this format is to have a dynamic ban list, meaning the ban list will be updated based on test results by you, the Bladers!
:: So, what Beyblade parts can I use? ::
Like we mentioned before, you can use any parts from the Metal Fight Beyblade generation other than the parts on the ban list.
What does the ban list include? We're glad you asked!
The first thing that we targeted with the ban list is wheels that are oppressively heavy. In general, if a wheel weighs over 40 grams, it is most likely banned; that means that all Synchroms are banned, as are 4D/Hyperblade wheels, Basalt, and Hell. The idea is that if only a single one of these wheels were unbanned, it would likely dominate the entire metagame, something we want to avoid.
The next parts we looked at banning were tracks. Ever since the release of BD145, tracks that are based on large, heavy disks have become the only options for competitive defense customs, and with good reason: their inclusion nullified the vast majority of attackers that were competitive prior to their release. Because our lightweight wheels don't have enough power to possibly KO a defender wielding a disk-based track, the tracks BD145, SA165, E230, and SP230 are all banned.
That leaves us with bottoms. After a LOT of intense internal testing, it was shown that our lightweight wheels simply cannot KO defenders on certain rubber-based bottoms, namely RS, RB, and RDF; these bottoms are simply too good for defense, and in the interest in balancing defense against attack, we needed to ban these three bottoms. (Note that defense still has things like CS, RSF, and the Rubber Flat variants to work with!)
If you want to see the most up-to-date ban list, check out the ban list discussion thread here!
:: What stadium do I use? ::
All tournaments for the MFB: Limited format will use the BB-10 Attack Type Stadium, as shown here:
A clear BB-10
A light blue BB-10
The reason this stadium is used is because it is one of the most fair stadiums currently available for every type of Beyblade:- It has actual exits instead of pockets or walls, which makes it easier to tell when an attack type gets a KO.
- It has a good wall-to-exit ratio, which is good for defenders and stamina types because they can be "wall saved" instead of getting KOed a fair amount of the time.
- It does not have a flat bottom, which is good because the slopes ensure more consistent contact between the Beyblades.
- It has a tornado ridge of a reasonable height, meaning it can catch Beyblades without always stopping them from exiting the stadium.
This stadium has only been released in Asia, meaning one does have to buy this stadium online, but for those who are interested in becoming a serious WBO tournament goer, this is an essential and very worthwhile purchase.
With that, we welcome you to this exciting new format, soon to be at a tournament near you! If you have any questions or random thoughts regarding this format, post them here!
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread - Naijalak - Dec. 04, 2013
This has made my day. I'm looking forward to spicing up future events for my advanced players!
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread - th!nk - Dec. 04, 2013
While I posted some general thoughts about the format in the announcement topic (if you're curious as to how it plays, my post is on the first page and I go into way too much depth about how great it is), I've written some notes on what I remember/had recorded of the things I tried when testing things out for Limited, to get things started/provide some direction for early testers, mostly just the quirks of each wheel and some notes on how things match up etc.
Keep in mind I don't own any Metal Fury wheels, nor any parts from Zero G aside from Revizer, Dragooon, Saramanda, Dark Knight, E230 and SA165, and also lack TR145, SWD, Forbidden, Cloud, Crash, FB, Divine, and a few other relevant parts from before that, so none of those will be covered in my actual summaries and it is all based on testing without those parts. Assuming none are overpowered however it shouldn't make that much difference. I have mentioned some things from that selection which I think might be good based on design or the testing others have done in separate subsections, however. As usual, YMMV.
In General: Attack is arguably the strongest primary type in the format, however it takes a lot more skill to use than the other two types. Success relies on a good launch and even moreso a strong launch – Attack types can handle most of the defense types I've tried if launched hard enough. Lastly, RF condition is a big deal, too worn and you won't move fast enough, too new and you'll fly out of the stadium. They do stay prime for a good amount of time but if you are really struggling with a CS defender you may want to look at getting a new one or wearing yours in a little.
Metal Wheels:
Gravity: Gravity is arguably the most threatening wheel in the format that has been thoroughly tested (hence why it'll be watched very carefully as the game develops), thanks to its weight, power (particularly with the Attack version of Perseus), and dual spin. However, these properties serve to keep a range of other things in check, particularly stronger defensive threats and Anti-Attack – while the combination of plastic buffers, good weight and often more extreme (in either direction) designs makes Zero G wheels serious defensive threats, their relatively poor balance means if they use RF they will usually fail to outspin Gravity (and Gravity's dual spin also helps negate any advantage given by the availability of Dark Knight). Gravity's shape also makes it effective against a wide range of heights on R145 and TH170 (though leone r145 is certainly no slouch), and thus helps prevent any one defensive track being too dominant. These factors mean that absolute defensive walls are not safe choices, which means things that less effective (but often more interesting) attack wheels stand a chance against should be the most common defense types.
That said, gravity is not that much stronger than the other wheels I'd call competitive (see my post in the Competitive Combos list discussion when I make it if I haven't already), even given the fact I have always found it to work very well for me (and hence may be overrating its effectiveness), and I don't think a ban on it is healthy for the format so long as people do branch out and use the alternatives.
Note about SonoKong Gravity: Just a reminder that SonoKong Gravity wheels should be avoided as they are generally significantly lighter and much less aggressive (but not really any better for spin stealing either). Their L/R's are also more fragile so there really is no reason to buy them.
Pegasis: CRAZY HORSE. If you're heading to a tournament and a Beyblade flies past your ear despite the fact there aren't any stadiums in sight, you can bet Pegasis was involved. Pegasis is explosive. It has aggression on top, and even more on the bottom, and plenty side on as well. It could, however, do with a little more weight behind it as it suffers from pretty heavy recoil, but it is still very much competitive.
Leone: My favourite Attack wheel, and similar in weight and style to Gravity, Leone is definitely one of the strongest Attack wheels in the format (as well as perhaps the second most aggressive after Pegasis) – top three of the things I tried for sure. It has a tonne of smash side-on thanks to its large contact points which have a lot of weight behind them, as well as hanging low over then track AND having an extremely violent top-side, making it dangerous in every direction. Excellent synergy with R145 only makes this better. It's survival could be better, but that's compared to gravity, and it is certainly by no means horrible in that respect.
Screw: This might surprise some people, but I always said if it weren't for the ridiculous defense parts introduced around the same time by the Maximum series (especially BD145, which blocked , Screw would have been hailed as a great Attack Wheel. Guess what? In Limited, where those parts are not present, Screw is a great Attack Wheel. So There.
Screw's quirk is that most of its attack comes from its slopes, and so for best performance they should stay unobstructed, my favourite CW's for it being Pisces, Horogium, and much to the delight of my inner primary school student, Uranus. You'll want to make sure you're hitting your opponent from just below their Metal Wheel if possible, I find that R145 is again a good choice, allowing solid contact with taller opponents and the track helping with lower ones, though if your local meta tends towards taller tracks, TH170 is an excellent choice too. If your metagame is more 145 and down, go low, though I recall preferring 90 to 85 on it back in the day so you may want to compare the two yourself. In exchange for this, however, Screw is one of the most exciting wheels, if it lands a hit just right, it is capable of launches so spectacular even Pegasis would drool over it.
It's worth pointing out that it is hurt significantly less by its need to hit just under the metal wheel than old favourite Vulcan, perhaps due to a greater range of contact points, and also benefits from good synergy with R145, which I'll cover in a little. What I'm trying to say is (if you're of similar or older vintage than me brace yourself) Screw is better than Vulcan.
Lightning:Lightning is consistent, efficient, and left spinicient (rhyming is hard), I didn't use lightning that much because I prefer gravity and find lightning rather dull by comparison, perhaps because it only gets one clear wheel. It's definitely one of the best Attack wheels, though it shines brightest on low tracks, being perhaps the most reliable answer to Low Track Defense setups Attack can muster. Like the other wheels I've covered so far, it also works very well on R145, though it's lack of any real aggression on its underside means R145 does have to do more work than it would otherwise need to. Lightning is great, wonderful and I'm sure it'll have a great time but I probably won't use it myself because I prefer other things.
Ray: I know I said that Ray being on the CC list given it was released alongside CS and RSF was a mistake but in retrospect I was wrong – RS is the specific point at which Ray starts to fail. With it banned, Ray is an excellent Attack MW, again benefitting from amazing synergy with R145, which should be reinforced with a three sided CW like Kerbecs, Unicorno II or Unicorno – the Leones being less worthwhile as they do nothing for Ray's relative flatness (and thus little to help its range). While its ability to attack in any direction other than sideways is somewhat limited, Ray feels somewhat easier to use than the other attack wheels, and is still a very effective wheel overall.
Note there are multiple molds of Ray and one I have is much thinner than the rest, though I have more than one each of Takara and SonoKong Rays, so I cannot be sure where it came from.
Vulcan: Once considered the most powerful Attack wheel in existence, Vulcan returns to the ring to find a metagame somewhat different and less kind than it remembers. Vulcan has a bit of a problem with height, it can deliver some of the hardest hits of anything of its vintage but it really needs to be hitting just under the metal wheel, at least in my experience, and it doesn't seem to work too well on taller tracks. It also doesn't have good synergy with R145, and GB145 and H145 just aren't quite as good. However, underestimate Vulcan at your peril, it's heavy, fast (thanks to all that weight being behind its contact points), and it hits like a truck. It's also very thankful not to have to contend with RS, and as a result I'd still consider it competitive, just make sure you launch real hard to capitalise on its potential for speed.
Quetzalcoatl: Also once considered the most powerful Attack wheel in existence (despite the presence of Lightning and Leone - see Mc Frown's thread titled something along the lines of don't let your empty wallet fool you, I think it's in the advanced forum), Quetz is the least aggressive wheel I'd still call competitive. Its quirk is that it has an element of Force Smash to it. Its contact points aren't the most well exposed, though they're still effective, but of all the non-three-sided wheels, it perhaps is the most effective at compensating for its poor synergy with R145, its sloped undersides being able to deal hard hits to lower opponents – just make sure you've got the weight to back it up.
Meteo L Drago (Assault): That's the blue one with the blunt, squared off plastic heads. MLD Assault is good, very good. It hits hard despite having mostly plastic contact points and the fact it is left spin gives it an edge against rubber tips and taller opponents. However, one thing really hurts it: Lightning. Lighting does everything MLD Assault does better, it hits a little harder, suffers less recoil, and has better survival. MLD Assault works but generally you're better off using lightning.
Sagittario: Sagittario is okay, it hits quite hard, but it suffers from more recoil than a wheel of its power should. Its survival is pretty poor thanks to those recoil issues, but nonetheless it is still decent – it's viable. If you stick it on RF and use it against a stamina type, you'll almost certainly win. If you're really good, you might even manage against some of the weaker defense types. It's viable, just not great.
LDrago: You could use LDrago for all out attack, but it really isn't aggressive enough so you probably shouldn't. It also has to compete with Meteo (and maybe also Metal Fury LDD/LDG if they did that) for its old spot as a spin stealing attack type/destabilising attacker. It can also be weak launched against by stamina so it's probably not worth using for straight up attack in general.
Thermal: I got thermal to KO a good defense type a couple of times, it needs to get just under it and generally it's not reliable but it can work and will probably do okay against stamina.
Bull: Buh-Buh-Bull is pretty Buh-Buh-Bad, but it'll handle stamina fine and can sometimes land hard hits on defense types. Quetz and Vulcan are vast improvements on the general design, though.
Samurai Dragooon: Dragooon works quite well but isn't really consistent enough and also the need to use a crystal wheel limits its effectiveness against lower opponents. In this format, I expect Dark Knight to outshine its metal counterpart by a significant amount, but again, it can be used.
Things I don't have that could be strong:
Wyvang/Phoenic/Bahamdia and maybe some other ZG Stuff: The hyper aggressive design of many Chrome wheels and their ability to be used in either spin direction, and the fact their poor survival and balance is not particularly detrimental for Attack means they pose a significant threat here.
Metal Fury – Pretty much anything even remotely aggressive: The sheer size of these things makes them major threats and added to this is the more extreme designs resulting from post-maximum series power creep. Or they could end up being horrible recoil laden trash, though from what we've seen this is probably not likely.
In addition to this, Shogun Steel was apparently only released in North America (and Metal Fury was similarly limited – Australia apparently received neither), and therefore if they are too dominant, they will reward part access disproportionately to skill/combo building, so personally I'd like to treat them a little more strictly.
Tracks:
[b]R145: R145 is THE track for Attack. The best wheels are all Three Sided and I strongly believe that has to do with R145. R145 is likely the heaviest track in the format unless something from Zero G is heavier, and it actually has passable offensive ability (without the recoil of H145). It's at a good height for most wheels as well. Basically, you're going to want to have this part.
160-180 heights: This seems like a solid height range for Attack tracks in this format – sharp banking can still let them hit low opponents while they're tall enough to hit 230-height opponents from below reliably. This is based primarily on TH170 (SA165 is slightly better but is too good defensively), which is a very effective track for Attack, at least on wheels with some overhang. Gravity strikes me as the best user I tried, particularly because it is capable of outspinning many low track RF (and with less certaintly RSF) Defense combos when set to taller heights, combinations which are otherwise difficult for Attack to handle reliably while maintaining the ability to hit tall opponents. 160 will probably be a solid choice thanks to its height.
Others: SW145, UW145 are also decent but outclassed by R145, and there's H145 but I really dislike it and don't have much success with it. CH120 is good but the fact it doesn't stay in 145 height well, which it really needs to in a metagame with tall tracks (and the fact the R145 is generally good for multi-height-range attack) means it has lost some of its shine. Low Tracks are extremely good against heights up to 145, but are unable to do anything of note to tall tracks, making them risky but potentially rewarding.
W145 should probably do very well in general, too.
[u]Tips:
RF, R2F, LRF: Choose your favourite (mine is RF) and make sure it's prime. That's really all there is to it. MF, WF, XF and some of the ZG era tips might work out but the results are probably going to end up in Balance rather than here.
Overall
No Big Plastic Disks? No RS, RDF or RB? No obscene weight advantage? Only one or two near-perfect circles? What does defense do in this metagame?
Well for starters it stops making the game boring by dominating attack to the point no one wants to use Attack at tournaments while also being easy to just launch and leave. Secondly, however, it still works quite well, but now has a similar amount of risk to Stamina, and still usually less than Attack. It may take some getting used to if you have never played anything from before the Maximum Series or are just so used to post maximum series MFB you don't know what it's like for Defense to not dominate, but give it a chance.
If you're a defense enthusiast, and have somehow not stopped reading to write an angry response chastising me for my pro attack bias (fun fact: my favourite combo type from any generation are Defensive Zombies from plastics) look at it this way – in this format, you need to put a lot more effort into defense, both in choosing a combination and in using that combination. What I'm saying is, you'll have a much bigger opportunity to prove your love for the type by showing that you can use it better than, shall we say "casual defense users" who just put a defense combination together from the competitive combos list and expect to laugh at attack as long as they don't miss the stadium with their launch. I personally find Defense a lot more fun to use in this generation, and I think you can too.
Wheels
Libra: OH NO IT'S LIBRA RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Or you know, outspin it, or hit its underside or one of its many bumps and knock it out. See, Libra, despite being the heaviest wheel in the format, has some problems. The biggest is its underside – it both overhangs the track by a fair amount and suffers from quite a lot of recoil. Libra cannot use tall tracks or it will get knocked out by Attack. In addition to this, while it is definitely one of the best Anti-Attack wheels, it still isn't quite as aggressive as it needs to be on RF to truly dent things, and it also isn't quite heavy enough to do what it wants without a heavy enough track. Don't get me wrong, it's very powerful, especially on low tracks, and it will be under very close supervision particularly in terms of balance setups, but Libra is not the be all and end all for defense by any means.
Earth: Earth is plain but also plain good. It has extremely low recoil, decent weight, and solid survival to boot, meaning it is excellent in general and also quite safe to use low tracks with RF, as it deals well with spin stealing attempts. Personally, I find it slightly more reliable than Libra thanks to the low recoil, and it is certainly by no means outclassed by libra defensively.
Reviser ____: Reviser is round and heavy, but suffers from poor balance even in Crystal Up mode, to the point it can't really use RF without getting outspun by attack types. It's still very effective at surviving KO's, however.
Flame: Borderline, but Flame's design means it is slightly harder to connect with on tall tracks. It's no good on anything not in the 220-230 range (preferably 230), and RF may be a bad idea because of increased tilting due to its grip and movement, but on those tracks it is somewhat irksome for Attack types to handle reliably.
Other things: Virgo works okay if it's not being hit at an angle, basically, but this is kinda rare. Dark is passable but not great, as is Grand.
Metal Fury Duo, though I do not own it, may outclass Earth and generally speaking is one of the things I am most concerned about that is still legal.
Tracks:
GB145: The best track for defense at the traditional defense height, GB145 has good weight without the recoil of R145. It is prone to sitting unevenly on Metal System wheels, especially if the facebolt hole of the track cracks (very common from screwing faces too tight), so you should be careful to check for this when testing and competing. It's solid and perhaps the best track for benchmarking. It is also a good height for anti-attack if you want to KO things, though for pure defense 85 is probably better.
85/90: LTDC were about to step into the spotlight when the original BIG PLASTIC DISKâ„¢, BD145, appeared and completely outclassed them, providing even better protection for the underside as well as a massive weight boost and a plastic buffer and generally being a broken piece of carp. However, now the big plastic disks are gone, LTDC finally have their chance to impress and they most certainly do. 85RF and RSF are very difficult for any attacker not also on 85 to handle, whereas CS provides decent survival and solid defense.
TH170/230 etc: Tall Track defense did shut down Low Track Attack, and continues to do so, however they struggle with 145-180 or thereabouts height attackers (basalt was unique in being broken enough to smack them, meaning attack had to resort to BD145 for the extra weight to handle it, and the BD145 meta resulted). However, MF (and to a lesser extent due to the lack of heavy enough wheels WF) and even RF combined with low-recoil, reasonably heavy wheels can be used to make momentum-based combinations focussed on cramping attackers or straight up smashing through them for KO's, though these definitely prefer opposite spin matchups. Generally speaking 230 and the like are still strong but the presence of R145 and tracks between 145 and 230 will make things tougher for them.
Tips:
CS: Solid Defense and Decent Stamina, CS was by far the most popular defense tip before the power creep of 4D produced a wheel called Flash which was basically two sledgehammers tied together. In a less ridiculous metagame, CS returns to its place as an excellent defense tip, however it does sorely miss its big plastic disks, and as such it represents a tradeoff of certainty against attack for more certainty against other defenders and balance types (as well as Anti-Attack, as an Anti-Attack wheel that reliably beats CS defense is almost certainly ban worthy). Also in case you forgot, CS is kinda a hassle with the whole tip condition thing so get ready for more of that.
RSF: RSF is solid, the most similar thing to regular MFB's defense tips, not particularly good stamina but solid enough defense to weather all but the fiercest of attacks. It's not good enough to nullify height matchups but MF-H Earth ___ 85RSF is one of the most solid, dependable defenders I've used. It's good, and with it's brother RS out of the picture RSF finally gets a chance to shine.
MF: An unusual entry and perhaps not on the most stable ground, MF has decent stamina and most importantly for defense, a very good ability to catch the tornado ridge. Its aggression can be good or bad depending on what you're doing, as you can use it to cramp attackers flower patterns and maybe nudge stamina types out of the arena. It shines most in the momentum-based combos mentioned in the 230 section above, but overall is a solid tip as long as you have decent weight on it (so generally it's not great for Low Tracks).
RF: Another one that will upset traditionalists (though probably not as much as people saying "no defense can't move even if that actually lets them take hits better" upset me when I read that argument for the first time), RF has the most grip of any tip in the format and while the extra energy its movement adds to collisions tempers this, it is still very solid, especially with weight and/or low recoil, and it also presents a chance of KOing stamina types that would OS more passive defense tips. 230 is probably something it should shy away from, leaving that to MF (though it can still work at high altitudes in the right setup), and its stamina is very poor, but on low tracks and GB145, as well as in Anti-Attack customs, RF is very hard for attack to deal with, and a key part of defense and is a tip defense lovers will likely need to get used to if they want to succeed with their favourite type.
Stamina is stamina, there's few surprises to be had here and I am not a huge fan of MFB stamina so I'm afraid this might be even more dull than the other sections.
Stamina is hurt by the fact defense no longer completely shuts down attack with little effort because now if you use a stamina combo there's probably actually a chance you'll face attack because people shouldn't be scared to use that. The most interesting thing will be seeing how Spin Stealing, which only took off after the maximum series but doesn't really need parts that are banned from this format (perhaps bar SA165), works as a strategy, though Earth will pose a bit of a problem for them as it is generally quite good at resisting spin steal.
Stamina v Stamina used to rely primarily on height matchups, making for a game within a game, basically, and hopefully that will return.
There's little to say here. Earth, Burn, and Virgo, as well as maybe some metal fury wheels are the ones to go for.
Earth has super low recoil and as such is very reliable.
Burn has better pure stamina but is much more prone to being KO'd due to recoil.
Virgo is somewhere between the two and the shorter spinning copies (the cause of which is completely unknown despite ample investigation) are probably somewhat outclassed, though they still work decently while the "5 Minute Molds" that no one seemed to have any more by the time I'd heard about them would probably be one of the better choices.
Libra also works but doesn't have stamina to hold up to these and as such is better off using 85/90 with D or EWD (SD probably works, EDS might), which leans towards balance in that it can take a hit from weaker attack types and anti-attack while still outspinning defense.
Thermal may be worth trying as some people had success with it, but I was one of the people who didn't.
Parts I don't have:
F230 is probably the track to watch out for here (though perhaps it's more balance like) and it's perhaps the thing being most closely watched in this format as we start having tournaments in it, especially with the publicity it has received in regular MFB and Zero G.
W145 should also be watched closely in case it disrupts the height matchups of old, though whether this warrants a ban will be hotly debated I'm sure.
Metal Wheel wise, Metal Fury Duo and Phantom, and to a lesser extent Scythe, will need to be watched closely. For spin stealing, Dark Knight may be the biggest concern, as IIRC Hasbro's LDD was not so great (which makes sense – rubber that can touch the stadium is generally bad for stamina), but gravity's dual spin may be exploitable (though if this happens it will more likely be due to a particular track/tip than gravity itself).
Okay so I predominantly stuck with the primary types in my testing, only testing variations on them that came close to balance that I was familiar with. This is because there is such a ridiculous range of parts that it'd be impossible for one person to test them all. The lack of BD145 and various wheels limits a lot of staple balance type setups in general but various things still work – MLD CH120XF is perfectly fine as long as you can launch it well (which is very hard to do), for example.
Metal System Testing - Naijalak - Dec. 04, 2013
It seems that Metal System Beys might work really well in Limited. I've had some good combos before with Libra and L-Drago, but nothing officially tested.
Might be a good time to try and snag some more to see how effective they might actually be in Limited.
Anyone out there have a good collection of Metal System Beys to do some tests?
RE: Metal System Testing - Ryukiba - Dec. 04, 2013
What parts do you need?
sorry if this is a stupid question-.-
RE: Metal System Testing - Naijalak - Dec. 04, 2013
I'm going to try and snag some of eBay, probably after the holidays at this point. I was just curious how much other people had so they could start testing.
RE: Metal System Testing - Ryukiba - Dec. 04, 2013
(Dec. 04, 2013 8:05 PM)Naijalak Wrote: I'm going to try and snag some of eBay, probably after the holidays at this point. I was just curious how much other people had so they could start testing.
No i mean, i want to test some i just want to know what parts do i use for this testing?
RE: Metal System Testing - Ingulit - Dec. 04, 2013
This was from the Metal System Testing thread:
Ingulit Wrote:Here, because this thread is a little too general (seeing as there are a lot of Metal System wheels we could talk about) I'm going to merge this with our new Random Thoughts thread! This is the kind of discussion that the Random Thoughts thread was made for:
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MFB-Limited-Primer-and-Random-Thoughts-Thread
(Dec. 04, 2013 8:05 PM)Naijalak Wrote: I'm going to try and snag some of eBay, probably after the holidays at this point. I was just curious how much other people had so they could start testing.
This is what I'm going to be doing as well, because yeah, the Metal System is going to be huge for this format. I'm expecting there to be a rush on BB-96s, haha!
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread - Leone19 - Dec. 05, 2013
Is it possible, that eventually, this Limited Format will be possible for Zero-G (stadiums)?
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread - Ingulit - Dec. 05, 2013
It's possible, yeah! We wanted to experiment with this new type of format in the tried-and-true BB-10 before branching off like that, but it's not out of the realm of possibility
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread - th!nk - Dec. 05, 2013
Man everyone is ignoring LTDC, which are the most reliable, solid defense set ups in the format. Get your 85 on, guys.
Like seriously please don't make me have to interrupt my holiday to make an mf-h earth bull 85rsf/rf thread, I will if I have to but please, actually experiment more with defense and compare the struggles it has with the other types : it is by no means underpowered at least considering things that were tested before launch.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer and Random Thoughts Thread - Ingulit - Dec. 05, 2013
Something I really want to see tested is MF-H Libra CH120RF; it's described in great detail on the Beywiki, and I'm wondering if it holds up to the pseudo-hype that its article suggests.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Kujikato - Dec. 05, 2013
With this format now out, I might start testing.
Forbidden for attack guys?
I got it to KO Basalt a while back.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - th!nk - Dec. 05, 2013
That thing was scary because wb was the best defensive tip (well, rf was usable and I imagine earth rf LTDC would have dealt with it but no one thought of it or whatever). R145 boosting the weight of attack types and the presence of tall tracks also reduce its usefulness. I did look into it multiple times while testing and it is is decent but falls short in most ways. I will probably try it against ltsc tomorrow myself as if it can handle them then I might consider doing more extensive testing on it.
Going to give meteo ldrago b: d a shot tomorrow but I'm pretty sure it sucks. MLD100EWD was popular while b: d was around after all.
Kujikato : I'm very interested in how Forbidden, Cloud, Crash and Bakushin do as I only have the latter and don't want to damage it, and Forbidden and Bakushin both have promising design features. I mean ray works pretty well so most things stand a chance IMO.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Kujikato - Dec. 05, 2013
I can supply some Forbidden tests if needed then.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Ingulit - Dec. 05, 2013
I totally forgot about Bakushin when I was listing potential defense wheels, doh! It definitely looks like it'd be good, especially on a low track. I'll put some tests in on it, and if nobody makes a thread in the meantime (which would be fine) I'll post a Bakushin discussion thread.
But Cloud, lol? Even for this format it's ridiculously light, and it has tons of recoil to boot. It's fun to play around with (namely to see how far across the room you can KO it), but I'd be surprised to see it do well competitively 
(Dec. 05, 2013 7:47 PM)Kujikato Wrote: I can supply some Forbidden tests if needed then.
Yes please!! Make a Forbidden discussion when you're done, I'm really interested to see how it performs
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Kujikato - Dec. 05, 2013
Sure, I'll make a note of that, how do you think Meteo L-Drago II CH120 XF/FB would fare in Limited?
I think it should do pretty well, seeing that there's no BD145 or E230 to kill it, nor Basalt and Hell+230.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - th!nk - Dec. 05, 2013
I've seen Bakushin tests showing it work in every combo type, so I may even test it myself.
I forgot which of cloud or crash was supposedly pushed into an okay weight range haha. Even then I don't have high expectations for them, but yeah. There are a lot of metal system wheels I want to see, might buy them myself for Xmas.
I will probably make threads for Leone and screw tomorrow as they're my favourite wheels in the format and I'm very familiar with their quirks, not to call dibs or anything but yeah, if someone wants to make them before then they should make sure they do a good job or I will sulk.
MLD will suffer from attack being worthwhile in this format in general haha.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Kujikato - Dec. 05, 2013
True.
It's too light, but that gave me an idea:
Wyvang + Dark Knight?
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Ingulit - Dec. 05, 2013
(Dec. 05, 2013 8:05 PM)Kujikato Wrote: True.
It's too light, but that gave me an idea:
Wyvang + Dark Knight?
I'm actually going to be posting a Dark Knight custom as soon as my finals are over tomorrow (not with Wyvang, but that's an interesting idea). It's easily going to be the most important crystal wheel we need to test for this format.
Actually, that just got me thinking; is there any crystal wheel shaped like Bakushin?
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - DRAGON KING - Dec. 05, 2013
(Dec. 05, 2013 7:49 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I totally forgot about Bakushin when I was listing potential defense wheels, doh! It definitely looks like it'd be good, especially on a low track. I'll put some tests in on it, and if nobody makes a thread in the meantime (which would be fine) I'll post a Bakushin discussion thread.
But Cloud, lol? Even for this format it's ridiculously light, and it has tons of recoil to boot. It's fun to play around with (namely to see how far across the room you can KO it), but I'd be surprised to see it do well competitively 
(Dec. 05, 2013 7:47 PM)Kujikato Wrote: I can supply some Forbidden tests if needed then.
Yes please!! Make a Forbidden discussion when you're done, I'm really interested to see how it performs 
Finally, someone realizes its use! It definatly has a chance to become very competitive in limited with its compact design and low recoil
EDIT: I'm talking about bakushin if u didnt notice lol
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Leone19 - Dec. 05, 2013
Has anyone thought about Bakushin GB145 CS? I used it a few times in a friend's BB-10, it was decent. It might do well in this format, though.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Ingulit - Dec. 05, 2013
I'm thinking something more like MF-H Bakushin ____ 85RSF; it'd be low enough to the ground for its awesome shape to help deflect blows (in theory). I really want to test Metal Fury Wing on low tracks to see if it'd do the same thing, seeing as the 4D Wing acted like a ramp on low tracks in Standard.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - Leone19 - Dec. 05, 2013
(Dec. 05, 2013 9:48 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I'm thinking something more like MF-H Bakushin ____ 85RSF; it'd be low enough to the ground for its awesome shape to help deflect blows (in theory). I really want to test Metal Fury Wing on low tracks to see if it'd do the same thing, seeing as the 4D Wing acted like a ramp on low tracks in Standard.
I've experimented with it before, in my opinion, its really too hollow to do well on a low setup, but in this format without Basalt or Hell, everything changes. 
_
As far as 4D bottoms go, has anyone thought about Libra or Earth B for Stamina? I know it'd be lightweight (Earth) and B is easyish to KO and not thought much of in BB-10, but its just an idea, haha.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread! - DRAGON KING - Dec. 05, 2013
(Dec. 05, 2013 9:52 PM)Leone19 Wrote: (Dec. 05, 2013 9:48 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I'm thinking something more like MF-H Bakushin ____ 85RSF; it'd be low enough to the ground for its awesome shape to help deflect blows (in theory). I really want to test Metal Fury Wing on low tracks to see if it'd do the same thing, seeing as the 4D Wing acted like a ramp on low tracks in Standard.
I've experimented with it before, in my opinion, its really too hollow to do well on a low setup, but in this format without Basalt or Hell, everything changes. 
I guess only testing will determine the answer. 
As far as 4D bottoms go, has anyone thought about Libra or Earth B for Stamina? I know it'd be lightweight (Earth) and B is easyish to KO, but its just an idea, haha. i was actually just think of that a few minutes ago, but Pegasus or gravity would kill earth and probaly libra. But it would be nice if we had some tests (especially with libra B : D)
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