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MFB: Limited :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Jan. 04, 2015  7:51 PM
 
(Jan. 04, 2015  7:41 PM)Shido Wrote: I don't see why it would have a problem against Ronin Genbull, Meteo F230(G)CF and Meteo CH120XF, although the Ronin LTSC may be a bit harder to KO because of it's low height.

I say try against Meteo (or Guardian) F230 CF, could be a nice little counter Smile
Jan. 05, 2015  7:43 PM
 
we must see what's its full potential.
Jan. 09, 2015  2:35 PM
 
Just in response to TheBlackDragon's post in the Advanced Forum, I do agree on saying that we should get it up soon, definitely. Here are a couple of my own opinions on a couple of setups in the attack section.

In that aspect, TheBlackDragon, Cake's (can't get used to saying Corn, lol) most recent list is probably the most accurate in terms of reliability. Pegasis (despite some recoil) Lightning, Wyvang, and for that matter, Ronin LTAC are in my opinion, the most reliable. Ronin-based LTACs should definitely be up there, too, I think most of you can agree. Ronin Zirago 85RF has gave us some pretty sweet results, same went for MSF-H Ronin Gryph 85RF from my testings.

I really don't like the idea of those Phoenic setups on the list; it has quite a lot of bulk and recoil; I wouldn't want to risk using that with the other four options on Cake's list at an actual Limited Format event.

On the topic of Cosmic, I don't own one to test it, so I'm not too sure. If you guys seem to like it, I'm not too sure what to say, haha. Really hoping I can pick one up soon, though; right now, I can't really have a say on it being up there.

Really hope that it, again, is up soon. TheBlackDragon's list in those other areas are pretty bang-on.

Hato-Bokkun Wrote:I say try against Meteo (or Guardian) F230 CF, could be a nice little counter Smile

Loyd87 Wrote:we must see what's its full potential.

I honestly think the only issue it would have against F230 would simply be the height differences, having no contact with either one of the Metal Wheels. Hopefully some tests can be conducted for you guys. Smile
Jan. 09, 2015  10:55 PM
 
I will try Phoenic later; I haven't done much testing with it. The results it's gotten have been amazing so far, though.

Cosmic is pretty great, although it's basically a more explosive clone of Pegasis; you could argue that it's addition is unnecessary if you consider Pegasis to be slightly better (I personally think they are equally effective, but last I heard, Kei doesn't, so at this point I'm not confident it will end up being listed).

I definitely agree with the addition of Dark Knight LTAC; they're pretty amazing. Speaking of which, if any of you guys have time, I would really appreciate testing on MF-H Dark Knight Pegasis 90/100RF. I've found this custom's balance to be exceptional, and as far as I've seen it does better than Gryph or Girago against low/mid-height opponents. The only drawback is that it seems to be less effective against 230 Defense customs for some reason (hence the use of 90/100 instead of 85). I really think that, pending further testing, it could be listed alongside Gryph/Girago if the numbers are good.
Jan. 11, 2015  3:51 PM
 
TheBlackDragon Wrote:Speaking of which, if any of you guys have time, I would really appreciate testing on MF-H Dark Knight Pegasis 90/100RF.

Your wish is my command; I worked one one with a Girago benchmark last night. Smile

MSF-H Ronin Pegasis 100RF versus Earth Leone 85RSF
Both Bottoms in their Prime • Earth Leone Launched First all Matches
Ronin Pegasis: 2/10 (ALL KO) 20% Win Rate
Earth Leone: 8/10 (ALL OS) 80% Win Rate

Yup, it seemed to get wrecked by LTDC; it just wasn't able to get the KO off of it. Here's the Girago benchmark.

MSF-H Ronin Girago 100RF versus Earth Leone 85RSF
Both Bottoms in their Prime • Earth Leone Launched First all Matches
Ronin Girago: 6/10 (2 OS, 4 KO) 60% Win Rate
Earth Leone: 4/10 (3 OS, 1 KO) 40% Win Rate

Girago seemed to do much better than Pegasis in this case. I'm recieving a Bakushin today, though; would you want me to test it against that, too, TheBlackDragon?

I felt like it made more sense to test the two against LTDC for any of you wondering why I did, by the way. Against most Stamina, the two's results would have been the same; coincidental if one does better than another.
Jan. 11, 2015  8:01 PM
 
I think Pegasus could have better smash if it used in right rotation then in left spin. something like replacing Ronin by Shinobi or something like that could provided a better results. personnaly I have more KO using it in right spin when it place in chrystal up mode then left spin.

now the question is, IMO, Are we used this combo with or with out MSF(-H-L-M-F)?? it change the results a little IMO. Less or more stamina/spin steal/KO/Control. I prefered with out MSF when I used Girago. I've found some great outspin power like spin steal. for ex:

I used Ronin girago 85LRF against MF-H Libra GB145RSF.

Libra resist enought to prevent KO agains Ronin. but mainly ronin win by Outspin. Using Slidding shoot or a normal shoot I always win by outspin in 70% of time.

But when I put the MSF-H on this combo. it have much more difficults to outspin the same matches. but have one or 2 more KO against it. but it never done a 70% win rates like with out MSF.

If someone have time, can you guys try it? i'm to busy for the 2 weeks income so if anyone could help me to have results faster then me haha it could be great Wink
Jan. 11, 2015  9:50 PM
 
So, I have a ton of Ronin LTAC tests. Just a quick note before I show the tests, I found Bahamoote to have worked the best (Testing from Balro, Gryph, and Killerken. It also semeed to get better results than Girago in other people's tests against the same thing.) The first few tests are just to test which Chrome Wheel works best(Explains just 10). Bahamoote did 5% better than my testing with Lightning, so this could defenitely be a potential Tier Listee. Shido also found Bahamdia/Bahamoote to do fairly well.

MSF-L Dark Knight Bahamoote 85R2F V. MF-H Libra 90RSF
DKB: 7(All KO)
Libruh: 3(1 KO, 2 OS)
Ties: 0

Bahamoote Win Percentage: 70%

MSF-L Dark Knight Killerken 85R2F V. MF-H Libra 90RSF
DKK: 2(1OS, 1KO)
Libruh: 8(1KO, 7 OS)
Ties: 0

Killerken Win Percentage: 20%

MSF-L Dark Knight Gryph 85R2F V. MF-H Libra 90RSF
DKG: 4(1OS, 3KO)
Libruh: 6(1 KO, 5 OS)
Ties: 0

Gryph Win Percentage: 40%

MSF-L Dark Knight Balro 85R2F V. MF-H Libra 90RSF
Balro: 5(All KO)
Libruh: 5(All OS)
Ties: 1

Balro Win Percentage: 50%


MSF-L Dark Knight Bahamoote 85R2F V. MF-H Libra CH120RSF
DKB: 14(All KO)
Libruh: 6(1 KO, 4 OS)
Ties: 0

Bahamoote Win Percentage: 70%

MSF-L Dark Knight Bahamoote 85R2F V. MF-H Libra GB145RSF
DKB: 16(All KO)
Libruh: 4(1 KO, 3 OS)
Ties: 2

Bahamoote Win Percentage: 80%

MSF-L Dark Knight Bahamoote 85R2F V. MF-H Libra SR200RSF
DKB: 18(All KO)
Libruh: 2(All OS)
Ties: 2

Bahamoote Win Percentage: 90%

MSF-L Dark Knight Bahamoote 85R2F V. MF-H Libra 230RSF
DKB: 13(All KO)
Libruh: 7(2 KO, 5 OS)
Ties: 0

Bahamoote Win Percentage: 65%

Benchmark:

MF-H Lightning L-Drago R2F V. MF-H Libra GB145RSF
LLD: 15(All KO)
Libruh: 5(All OS)
Ties: 0

Lightning Win Percentage: 75%
Jan. 11, 2015  10:59 PM
 
Did you do comparative with Zirago, as well?

I never tested Zirago with those, so I don't necessarily see how you can say it may have done better, haha.
Jan. 12, 2015  2:02 AM
 
I misplaced my Girago, haha. You're not the only one who does Girago tests. Wink

(Dec. 16, 2014  3:05 AM)loyd87 Wrote: I do a little 10 rounds(to not worn out my rubber tips) test with dark knight zirago. I replaced RF by LRF because my LRF is in better condition then my RF.

Dark Knight Zirago 85LRF VS MF-H Libra GB145RSF(RSF non-agressive)

Zirago wins: 7/10 (7 OS, 3 KO)
Libra wins: 3/10 ( 0 OS, 3 KO)

Zirago win %: 70%

I got some Libra Stamina testing done. I think it's being disputed whether Libra should be added or not, so I did some tests.

Libra 85WD V. Burn Cancer W145WD
Libra: 0
Burn: 10(All OS)
Ties: 1

Libra Win Percentage: 0%

Libra AD145WD V. Burn Cancer W145WD
Libra: 10(All OS)
Burn: 0
Ties: 3

Libra Win Percentage: 100%

Libra SR200D V. Burn Cancer W145WD
Libra: 9(All OS)
Burn: 1(All OS)
Ties: 2

Libra Win Percentage: 90%

Libra SR200TB V. Burn Cancer W145WD
Libra: 0
Burn: 10(All OS)
Ties: 1

Libra Win Percentage: 0%

Libra 230D V. Burn Cancer W145WD
Libra: 0
Burn: 10(All OS)
Ties: 0

Libra Win Percentage: 0%

Libra 230D V. Burn Cancer 230D
Libra: 0
Burn: 10(All OS)
Ties: 0

Libra Win Percentage: 0%

Libra 230D V. Burn Cancer W145WD
Libra: 0
Burn: 10(All OS)
Ties: 1

Libra Win Percentage: 0%

Average Win Percentage: Approximately 27.1%
Jan. 12, 2015  12:54 PM
 
(Jan. 12, 2015  2:02 AM)Eminem* Wrote: I misplaced my Girago, haha. You're not the only one who does Girago tests. Wink

[quote='loyd87' pid='1249315' dateline='1418695506']
I do a little 10 rounds(to not worn out my rubber tips) test with dark knight zirago. I replaced RF by LRF because my LRF is in better condition then my RF.

Dark Knight Zirago 85LRF VS MF-H Libra GB145RSF(RSF non-agressive)

Zirago wins: 7/10 (7 OS, 3 KO)
Libra wins: 3/10 ( 0 OS, 3 KO)

Zirago win %: 70%

True, I didn't see those, haha. Another factor may have been it was LRF and not RF, too.

I'll try to do some tests with Libra later on, but good job with some other testing on Ronin- really shows it should be added.
Jan. 13, 2015  12:28 AM
 
Yeah, haha.

Thanks. But specifically, I really like Bahamdia/Bahamoote. I haven't tried Girago yet, but I'd like to see more testing with it. Leone19 had. a thread for Ronin Bahamoote __MF. But I'd like to see it for raw attack power.
Jan. 13, 2015  1:07 AM
 
Here's a Ronin Bahamdia LTAC test; kind of the opposite of what Echizen got. :\

Ronin Bahamdia (Crystal Mode Up) 90RF versus Bakushin Leone 90RSF
Bakushin Launched First all Matches • Both Bottoms in their Prime
Ronin Bahamdia: 13/20 (10 OS, 3 KO) 65% Win Rate
Bakushin Leone: 7/20 (4 OS, 3 KO) 35% Win Rate

Yeah, ten out of the thirteen of it's wins were won by out-spin. 13/20 isn't necessarily a bad score, but it did really struggle to get the KOs off of Bakushin. Seeing as it was able to get the alternative win option, out-spinning is a plus side, though; doesn't show its attack abilities in any way, still. I'll try to compare results with Gryph and Girago soon.

Oh, and of course, awesome testings, Echizen, there are a lot of them!
Jan. 13, 2015  1:22 AM
 
OS's? That's crazy, haha. Maybe it was the RF. Unfortunately, I don't have a Bakushin to test against. Uncertain But it may be different becuase of Bakushin.

Were the KO's from Bahamdia's recoil?
Jan. 13, 2015  1:51 AM
 
Eminem Wrote:Maybe it was the RF.

I don't think it was; the RF was in rather good condition; very aggressive. Do you mean the difference between RF and R2F on Ronin LTAC in general, though?

Eminem Wrote:Were the KO's from Bakushin's recoil?

From what I recall, it was from the both of their's.
Jan. 13, 2015  2:00 AM
 
Bakushin has recoil? Say wuhh ... Surely it was the clear wheel and not Bakushin.
Jan. 13, 2015  2:47 AM
 
(Jan. 13, 2015  2:00 AM)Tri Wrote: Bakushin has recoil? Say wuhh ... Surely it was the clear wheel and not Bakushin.

And even Leone is pretty much completely non-recoily... Though Bahamidia is super aggressive, so I expect that it would suffer from some bad recoil on such a lightweight setup.
Jan. 13, 2015  3:33 AM
 
My mistake, I didn't mean both, just Bahamdia.

Sorry; didn't really remember it that well, that's what I initially recalled, though.
Jan. 13, 2015  3:56 AM
 
(Jan. 13, 2015  2:00 AM)Tri Wrote: Bakushin has recoil? Say wuhh ... Surely it was the clear wheel and not Bakushin.

I meant Bahamdia, hah.
Jan. 24, 2015  11:06 PM
 
In response to Time's post in the Advanced forum:
"No formal testing that I'm aware of on Scythe TB, but I can say it is definitely a potent combo in limited. It also has a strange ability to defeat f230 customs. The two times I have used it against one I have won 3-0."

Meteo L-Drago F230 (orange TT) GCF vs Scythe Aquario GB145 TB
Meteo L-Drago F230 GCF wins: 9/10 (all OS)
Scythe Aquario GB145 TB wins: 1/10 (1 KO)

...Hasbro F230 perhaps?
Jan. 25, 2015  12:43 AM
 
No idea. It was against beymaster15963 and sniper who as far as I know only own Takara F230. However, it was not typical OS, by the time the F230 combo was stationary in the center the scythe combo was still spinning around outside of the center similar to the movement pattern of Duo 230MB
Jan. 25, 2015  1:39 AM
 
Was it possible that specific Scythe TB setup didn't have contact with the F230 at the end of those matches, Time? That may be the case, but it'd be hard to believe that it'd happen every single one of the matches. Were both of the Beyblades the same spin, too? That may be more likely to happen, but I don't see why F230 (CF/GCF) wouldn't be able to stall-out TB. Perhaps it was Sniper's launch?

On another note, I agree with TBD's most recent list entirely (Really glad to see Ronin Gryph LTAC up there!), I'm still kind of unsure about Thief Phoenic ones. In terms of actual tests I myself conducted, I remember doing ones against Scythe Cancer 230TB (oh how coincidental) back in November, but the result was rather obvious; it was being tested against stamina, a HTSC in specific, I think we all know the end result, so obviously those testing don't mean that much, haha. Have any testings been made for it against LTSCs, though? I can just imagine it not being capable of getting the KO off of something like Earth 85WD because of its height. That in mind, I'd go ahead and publish the list without it, until we receive some more tests on it and good tournament experience with it, too. Here in Toronto, I don't recall anyone actually ever using Phoenic setups; in my opinion, it's a rather risky choice for tournament, given we also have things like Omega, Lightning and Pegasis.

I wonder what @[Kei] thinks about them up there, his opinion should matter a lot.
Jan. 25, 2015  4:09 AM
 
I will say it again, since I feel pretty strongly about it: I don't think Thief Phoenic should be on the attack. A new player who's building his/her collection based off of the tier list should not be misled into thinking that Thief Phoenic is on par with Omega, Lightning, and Pegasis, and from my experience, it certainly isn't. Only the best of every type should be on the tier list, and I still don't think Phoenic makes the cut.
Wyvang is still debatable, in my opinion.

**Edited because I was looking at an older list with Cosmic included**
Jan. 25, 2015  1:09 PM
 
(Jan. 25, 2015  4:09 AM)The Supreme One Wrote: I will say it again, since I feel pretty strongly about it: I don't think Thief Phoenic should be on the attack. A new player who's building his/her collection based off of the tier list should not be misled into thinking that Thief Phoenic is on par with Omega, Lightning, and Pegasis, and from my experience, it certainly isn't. Only the best of every type should be on the tier list, and I still don't think Phoenic makes the cut.
Wyvang is still debatable, in my opinion.

**Edited because I was looking at an older list with Cosmic included**

Have to agree. I mean, even if it showed good results, it's only gotten those results for a few people. It can be good I guess, but with all of the better options, not tier worthy.
Jan. 25, 2015  3:29 PM
 
It actually has quite a few results posted; not a lot of them, but a sufficient amount. th!nk got great results with it; far better results than Wyvang (which is listed alongside Phoenic, sooo...).

Why exactly don't you guys think it's tier-worthy? I've done a lot of informal testing with it, and it's pretty mind-blowingly awesome. Like I said in the Adv. thread, I'm honestly conflicted over whether or not its actually better than Pegasis.

It's versatile, consistent, high-powered; I really don't see many downsides to using it. Did you guys use it with or without a Metal Stone Face? It's a bit lightweight, so I expect it needs MSF-H to work well.

If you have the time, could y'all do some formal testing? That would be awesome (benchmarking with Pegasis, if you can).
Jan. 25, 2015  3:52 PM
 
(Jan. 25, 2015  3:29 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: It actually has quite a few results posted; not a lot of them, but a sufficient amount. th!nk got great results with it; far better results than Wyvang (which is listed alongside Phoenic, sooo...).

Why exactly don't you guys think it's tier-worthy? I've done a lot of informal testing with it, and it's pretty mind-blowingly awesome. Like I said in the Adv. thread, I'm honestly conflicted over whether or not its actually better than Pegasis.

It's versatile, consistent, high-powered; I really don't see many downsides to using it. Did you guys use it with or without a Metal Stone Face? It's a bit lightweight, so I expect it needs MSF-H to work well.

If you have the time, could y'all do some formal testing? That would be awesome (benchmarking with Pegasis, if you can).

Sure, I'll try to do sem testing when I get time. I did some before didn't get great results that youre mentioning, never logged them though, haha.
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