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MFB: Limited :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Jan. 17, 2014  10:47 PM
 
1: I don't have Gravity on there...
2: Yes, I've tested it and Th!nk has.It does good.
3: I could try that.
Jan. 17, 2014  10:51 PM
 
L Wrote:DEFENSE

MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/90/GB145/TH170/230 RSF/RF
MF-H Libra 90/GB145 RSF/RF
Where's CS?
Jan. 17, 2014  10:53 PM
 
1. Gravity is one of the best LTAC wheels because of its overhang.
2. It's been tested.
3. TH170EWD works, but only at 170 height. At that height though it'll beat B: D and a whole bunch of other stuff so it's still a good setup IMO.
(Jan. 17, 2014  10:51 PM)*Aquamarine* Wrote:
L Wrote:DEFENSE

MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/90/GB145/TH170/230 RSF/RF
MF-H Libra 90/GB145 RSF/RF
Where's CS?

About 50 feet from the stadium after any given hit by a Limited Format attack combo.
Jan. 17, 2014  10:54 PM
 
(Jan. 17, 2014  10:51 PM)*Aquamarine* Wrote:
L Wrote:DEFENSE

MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/90/GB145/TH170/230 RSF/RF
MF-H Libra 90/GB145 RSF/RF
Where's CS?

I did not see any testing on CS. Only on Earth I think. Also, what th!nk said.
Jan. 17, 2014  11:01 PM
 
Um.... Not to sound rude, but was there any need for that "ICE BURN" ? I hope you edit it with something, haha.
Jan. 25, 2014  8:00 AM
 
Is Vulcan not going up on the Attack list, esp. since Gravity is banned? It is an amazing wheel for attack and better than Beat imo. It is much more consistent and aggressive.

Also I think Dragonis should be on Omega. Although the clear wheels listed are more aerodynamic and have better synergy with Omega, the "square blocks" towards the base of the scythe on Dragonis provide for considerable clear wheel attack, widening Omega's range on lower tracks to hit taller opponents. I believe the same principle can go for Susanow/oo (or however you spell it) and Escolpio; however, I have not specifically tested those two clear wheels.

I'm also for taking WD off the list for TH170/230 stamina customs. If it happens to be knocked over, which happens quite frequently, they will lose a considerable amount of stamina compared to D and SD.
Jan. 25, 2014  8:08 AM
 
I get awful results from beat and on paper and visual comparison vulcan has better contact point exposure etc and is a bit heavier, but so far no one has got really good results from it, myself included. Screw and Pegasis both work better for me, especially as vulcan has always struggled on anything taller than CH120.

Escolpio is good for CW attack but I think Omega wants to be focussing its weight as much as possible rather than necessarily going for CW attack - Unicorno is not bad for hitting taller opponents anyway, either.

WD outspins every other tip in 230v230 matchups for me, and it's absolutely fine at 170 on TH170 (even EWD works okay there though any taller and it gets awful), but if people give it a shot even informally and it doesn't work for them I won't protest - but I'd appreciate people trying it as I think it's a bit underrated, IIRC we removed it because it wasn't as good vs lower opponents, which isn't the entire picture. Of course, I'm also one of the people for whom SD has always been a completely useless, redundant tip so...
Jan. 25, 2014  4:19 PM
 
(Jan. 25, 2014  8:00 AM)Meow! Wrote: Is Vulcan not going up on the Attack list, esp. since Gravity is banned? It is an amazing wheel for attack and better than Beat imo. It is much more consistent and aggressive.

I wouldn't say it's nearly better than Beat, but I am definitely all for having it on the list. It's aggressive, consistent, and very high-powered against low/mid height opponents. It also runs over Scythe MTDC like a monster truck, which could be a great attribute to have seeing as Scythe wasn't banned this past week (could, should, an probably will be banned come March, but you never know). Definitely a top-tier worthy wheel if you ask me personally.

#MF-HVulcanHoruseus85R2FFTW
Jan. 25, 2014  5:10 PM
 
>Consistent
>like 80% of its perimeter is round walls without slopes or anything

Sorry but I cannot agree with that, I'll give you beat and vulcan being good but consistent? I just don't think they manage from a logical perspective. Gravity has slopes and bumps and is almost triangular - that provides consistency. so much of a wheel being useless walls? Physically impossible for a good percentage of the hits it makes to be good ones, so therefore it cannot be consistent.

As I said, so far it's shown results which align with that - I mean it was a "premium" wheel back in the day so that generally means it's going to be a bit overhyped anyway.

This is coming from someone who was a big fan of vulcan back in the day. Pegasis is just a lot more persistent because while it's side on attack is not much better, it can attack much higher and lower opponents than vulcan can and also actually does "something" against lower opponents which is a lot more than vulcan can claim - we used it on LTAC for a reason, and despite being one of the few wheels that clung on with RS, there's a reason 230 killed it - it just doesn't have height versatility. My 2c anyway.
Jan. 25, 2014  6:08 PM
 
Vulcan is quite consistent for me. On LTAC against mid-height opponents, it actually does have some nice slopes, right where the "useless walls" begin. It's a very effective wheel against MTDC/MTSC/LTSC. It isn't the most versatile thing in the world, but it's extremely good at what it does IMO.

I would really like to see it go on the list if at all possible, but only on 85. Vulcan MTAC is junk from my experience.
Jan. 25, 2014  6:33 PM
 
I do like Vulcan on a LTAC. However, I only see it get 10-13 at the most. Plus, I prefer Dark Knight 90/85RF/LRF/R2F more. It has way better smash then Vulcan. It does get about 11-15 at the most. I do like Vulcan, but I honestly don't see it making it.
Jan. 25, 2014  6:34 PM
 
The thing is it's only good at LTAC and honestly Pegasis CH120 just seems to do better for *most* things. If it goes on it would defs be at most "85/CH120", and even then if it's gonna go up it's going to have to get past screw which is also great on the same tracks, heavier and IMO more consistent if not quite the same "max power output".

Even then, it will still need tests and we've already had some that don't really support it going up IIRC soooooo
Jan. 25, 2014  7:10 PM
 
Oven-fresh results, coming right up!

WARNING: I wasn't having the best day with Attack, nor a shortage of wall saves either, so just a heads up that the numbers are gonna be lower than usual. Keep in mind, though, that each test was done in immediate succession, and both customs were under identical conditions.

Spoiler (Click to View)

There you go. I wanna make it clear that I'm only talking 85 height here. Even CH120 is a bit iffy for me.
Jan. 25, 2014  7:17 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 25, 2014  7:17 PM
 
Gravity should probably do better than 30% against Earth GB145RSF (though against RSF it's always going to be in left anyway). Vulcan's really going to be competing with other LTAC wheels though, rather than the entire rest of the field - a lot of wheels do well on 85 (LLD, for example), but CH120/__145 is generally better because 230 etc are around, whereas vulcan at best has CH120.
Jan. 25, 2014  7:28 PM
 
I know. My Attack numbers today are wacky. I only hit 40% with Cosmic against Earth this morning.

I would expect Vulcan to do much better against Libra than that. It's just about the most vulnerable Defense wheel from below we have in the format.

Regardless, the fact that it was able to hit higher than Gravity R145 is valuable information. It's definitely no knock off. I'd like to see Meow!'s results, since he seems to be a proponent of it. It works better than just about everything but Lightning for me personally. It's one of my favorite Attack wheels.

@"L": Woah, how did you finish those, format them and reply in 7 minutes? LOL, you're fast. XD
Jan. 25, 2014  7:31 PM
 
I had them already done. I was just waiting for the right moment to post them. In my case, after yours. I have some more waiting to post, but I don't feel like posting them now.
Jan. 30, 2014  12:29 AM
 
Alright. I unfortunately lost the testing I had ready for this, so I'm gonna have to state my opinion purely based on informal experience and hope that's enough, LOL!

Anyway, I went and did so comparison testing with vulcan and held it up against Lightning and Dark Knight.

Holy macaroni, DK is an unstoppable monster on LTAC. It had something like a 20% lead over Vulcan in KO rate. Lightning did slightly better than Vulcan, but not by too much. After seeing Dark Knight work, I'm actually hesitant to suggest we put Vulcan on the tier list. It has some insane smash, but Lighting and Dark Knight... Geez.

On the subject of Vulcan, I'll remain around neutral for now (perhaps still moderately support its addition, but at this point I can definitely see the reasoning behind rejecting it).

That said, if someone who's not crazy busy ATM could post some results for it, Meteo B : D needs looking into. It's quite effective from my experience, and seems like something that would obviously work well. Won a few times last LTD event we had IIRC.
Jan. 30, 2014  9:56 AM
 
DK kinda has a problem where it breaks, for me at least I see cracks forming on mine so I probably won't be using it that much. It also has the problem of being rather elevated compared to other LTAC stuff.

I have a really good B: D and while MLD BGrin is good, there's a bit of a problem with any spin stealer on stuff that falls below TH220, at least from what I've tried. TH170's underside shape (the sloped section) actually traps things underneath it and causes them to fall over well before it does, at least with MF-H Libra TH170CS. This may just be because my B: D is *too* free spinning and thus tends to roll around on the side of the tip a whole lot, but either way given how good MF-H Libra TH170CS/TH170CS in general is, I'd be anxious about using MLD B: D competitively. But as I said, maybe that's just something with my setup. MLD B: D is also really easy to KO, so unless I misunderstand how F230(G)CF operates I suspect it's always going to be outclassed by that.

I'm mildly opposed to vulcan because I think there are better options for what it does. MF-H Pegasis CH120RF is one of the most versatile attack types in the format and does just fine against the same range of opponents as vulcan 85. Vulcan also has Screw to contend with in addition to the two things you mentioned in the "getting under things and sending them flying" stakes. It has a lot of comparative testing to go through if it's going to get up there, IMO.
Jan. 30, 2014  10:23 PM
 
LOL, I've got 4 of them, so if anything breaks it won't really matter.

As for elevation being a problem, I haven't tried against LTDC yet, so I can't really comment.

A big question would be, can it OS Bakushin 85/90RB? I'm not so sure, since its spin-stealing abilities were pretty unimpressive against 145-heights. Someone with Bakushin should try that.
Jan. 30, 2014  10:24 PM
 
Sorry, I'm lost, haha. What would you like to use against Bakushin? I'll test it.
Jan. 31, 2014  12:27 AM
 
Awesome!

MSF-H DK Wyvang 85R2F would be cool. Maybe Bahamdia too if you have time.

Against Bakushin 90RB PLZ. Joyful_3
Jan. 31, 2014  5:12 AM
 
Not a problem for you, perhaps, but something we should probably make sure people are aware of, haha.
Jan. 31, 2014  7:45 PM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Jan. 31, 2014  10:46 PM
 
You may be interested in this thread of mine; I found that Dark Knight Genbull is well-balanced enough that it can OS Defense by spin-stealing. I don't know how it fares against Bakushin LTDCs, but it may do better than trying to KO them with Wyvang.

EDIT: I'll ask GuardianRevizer if he'll lend me his Bakushin, but he probably won't want the paint scraped up XD
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