Some people say there is such a drastic difference though. The only one Ive seen that has a big difference is MF-H to be honest.

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still posi

Some people say there is such a drastic difference though. The only one Ive seen that has a big difference is MF-H to be honest.

What some people say and what is borne out by testing and logical application of (fairly simple in this case) physics are quite often two entirely different things.
Phantom is a special case in that it may benefit from a bit more weight over the centre to control its recoil, and it tends to be a very touchy wheel in general, but even then I'm still kinda iffy as I've certainly never had success with MF-L on it, and I don't think we'll see the same in Limited. Testing, or even better, if someone could provide a valid explanation of how it would help outside of specific setups where it is helping with recoil control or whatever because that particular wheel/setup needs it, would be necessary for it to be considered IMO.

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Here is what I think, anyway. Additions in bold except for regular metal faces on attack and anti-attack combos because I got lazy. Explanations and some other stuff in spoilers below for those interested.

List moved to next page and updated. This is now out of date and spoilered to reduce clutter/confusion (Click to View)

ATTACK
MF/MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK>DEF, Counter Mode) 85/90/CH120/D125/R145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Beat Byxis/Lynx 90/CH120/GB145/H145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Cosmic Kerbecs/Unicorno II CH120/R145/TH170 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85/90/CH120/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
MSF-H Dark Knight/Gladiator/Samurai Wyvang CH120/GB145/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF (Crystal Up Mode)
MF/MF-H Pegasis 85/CH120/R145 RF/R2F/LRF

DEFENSE

MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/90/GB145/TH170/230 RSF/RF
MF-H Libra 90/GB145 RSF/RF

STAMINA

(MF-M) Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD
Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/WD/SD
(MF-M) Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/D/SD
Burn Bull/Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/D/SD
(MF-M) Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD
(MF-M) Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/MB/WD/SD

SPIN STEALERS

(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) CH120 EWD
(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) B: D
(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) F230CF/GCF
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago CH120 EWD
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago B: D
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago F230CF/GCF

ANTI-ATTACK
MF/MF-H Libra CH120/GB145/R145 RF

Explanations: (Click to View)

Regular metal faces added to attack and anti-attack setups as the difference is tiny and this was standard back in the day so they probably deserve to be there.

Gladiator on Wyvang: It's fairly safe to assume this works given the tests galaxy blade did and just looking at the thing and its weight.

D125 added to gravity because it *has* always been popular and as much as I think it's silly to use over ch120, on flicking back through the testing etc I probably let my own bias cloud my judgment on that one. Needs looking into tho.

LRF/R2F added to opposite spinning beys because they've never been found to do worse (and personally I find they seem to keep their speed a lot better with wear compared to the correct direction star-rubber bey and a standard RF.)

Optional MF-M removed from standard stamina pending discussion/testing given TheBlackDragon's explanation, but still on spin stealers as per the standard format list.

Crystal Up Mode clarifier added to Wyvang, as it's yet to see crystal down testing and personally given its properties that's not really a good way to use it IMO anyway.

No 90 on earth ltdc: Until I see comparatives with a suitable attack type showing it isn't worse than 85, I will argue against this. Also, Earth's issue is things hitting its slopes/steps and that would theoretically only serve to let slightly more things do that.

Also removed a leftover SWD.

Customs doing well in testing that I didn't put up there and why: (Click to View)

MSF-H Thief Phoenic H145RF/R2F/LRF - would like to see just a touch more testing from other users and maybe some tourney use, but I'll do the former myself once I get an MSF-H.

Gravity Perseus D125GCF - I'd like to see it succeed at a tournament first, which is a fairly common criterion for this sort of combo to make the list, as an assessment of practicality. I would also still like to see results against a couple of Libra combos and people to check other possible similar setups in case they work better (CH120, Perseus (ATK), maybe even Perseus (STA) but probably not).

SR200PD: Needs testing against the various relevant heights and maybe also spin stealers etc etc. Also MF-H Libra 230CS IMO but yeah.

Combos from winning combos list that need testing, off the top of my head: (Click to View)

MF-H Libra 230/TH170CS: Libra has a bit of force smash to it so this outspins a significant portion of the format and seems to not do too awful against the lower spin stealers or whatever. Easy to KO with a decent attack type but yeah, seems like a solid balance type to me.
Wyvang RSF thing - Like msf-h wyvang wyvang bd145rsf in standard, Kei used something along these lines at the TO tourney and did well, but I'm not sold on H145 being a safe track as for me it doesn't protect a really recoil-prone point on the underside of wyvang (and R145 could be used for extra weight and to help balance the combo out).

There are probably some others but that's all I can remember right now.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Eh... I still strongly disagree with MF-M on any Stamina type. That'll be my project for the day. I'll try to get something conclusive and post it in the Standard Discussion forum, then I'll post a link here.

As for Vulcan, does it matter? LOL I can't think of any competitive Attack wheel in this format that has an overhang. Whatever... you make the call on that, since I haven't tested it extensively anyways. XD

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Eh... I still strongly disagree with MF-M on any Stamina type. That'll be my project for the day. I'll try to get something conclusive and post it in the Standard Discussion forum, then I'll post a link here.

As for Vulcan, does it matter? LOL I can't think of any competitive Attack wheel in this format that has an overhang. Whatever... you make the call on that, since I haven't tested it extensively anyways. XD

That would be good, we can discuss it over there. The only thing I can think of that would matter was if it were helping the natural imbalance of Synchrom Spin Stealers, that might make it useful in standard and not here, so maybe it shouldn't be here but it's hard to say. I'll try to do some formal testing over the weekend.

Graaaavity. Plus 90 puts you in easier range for taller opponents to hit the steps on earth anyway, without being high enough to really get them out of the way of CH120 either, which is probably more important.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Um... Not bad th!nk, but I'm gonna post 90 on Earth tests soon.

I've tested that Phonic combo and I think it should be on there. Apart
from that, I suppose I agree.

Also SR200PD does need more testing. If I see 2 more members testing, I think it'll be added.

From what I see, we're fighting over MF's. I think if we could find some old combos we migh find the answer.

Overall: I don't agree on taking off 90. Theif Phonic should be addad. And the rest needs testing.

If the tests cover the right bases and show that it's no worse than 85 then I have no issue with it being there. I'd be surprised, but I'm not going to argue against tests with none of my own and I'm not so fussed about it that I'd spend time testing it formally over the other things I have on my ever-growing list.

SR200PD not being there isn't about the number of people testing, but the content of those tests. 85(E)WD, W145EWD, and some of the various TH170 heights still need to be tested against, and the wheels it works with would need to be looked into as well as it is on record as being rather choosy in that regard.

I can save you the trouble and tell you as I was there: the prevailing opinion (by huge majority) was that any kind of metal face was bad for stamina (more weight over the centre), however, at that time Spin Stealers weren't a thing either. Both MF-M and MF-L being used on combinations is rather new, I think the first MF-M combo that saw any success with it was MF-M Duo ___ 230MB, and MF-L is basically just MF-L Phantom Cygnus lowtrack MF, hardly representative of most stamina customs. Some of the metal stone face variants see use on synchrom stuff tho.

As for thief phoenic, I'll mull it over and review the testing that is already done and see what I think in a little. Busy atm.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Thanks for the clear up on the MF's. Happy to see you might agree. I dis find SR200 seems to work well on Scythe. Then Earth. Then Burn. I'll be posting my results with those later too.

On the subject of MF-L, I wasn't suggesting it was good, I was just mentioning that it works on some Stamina setups (actually only like 1 or 2) in Standard.

It was more to make sure someone who read th!nk's post didn't think that all Stamina combos flunked with MF of any kind. XD I'm sure the results are accurate.

As for Gravity overhanging, it does have a flat edge near the bottom, so I really can't picture it getting under Earth, but I'll probably try it this weekend.

Testing should clear everything up.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Yeah, I know, but I've seen a few people putting MF-L on stamina types where it really doesn't help at all so I wanted to nip that in the bud while the opportunity to do so was there.

As for gravity, I can't remember the exact matchup but I definitely recall using it to get under LTDCs and I'm pretty sure that it was earth. But as I said, more concerned about what it puts Earth's slopes within range of honestly.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

On the subject of SR200PD and spin-stealers:
Duo Cancer SR200PD vs Gravity Perseus(Left Spin)W145WD
Alternating launches. Gravity weak launched.
Duo wins:0/20
Perseus wins: 20/20(all OS)
Duo Win Percentage: 0%
Yes I know W145 wasn't on the spin stealers list, but it's the closest thing I have now. Don't use SR200PD against Spin-Stealers!

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

You should post them in the SR200 Discussion. But yeah, it's not really good against them. Unless, 'cause, it's Duo? Anyway thanks for the tests.

http:// worldbeyblade.org/Thread-STD-LTD...Equalizers Thread with testing is up!

Hope this helps!

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I read it. That was helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write it up. I'm sure we needed it.

http:// worldbeyblade.org/Thread-STD-LTD...Equalizers Thread with testing is up!

Hope this helps!

Yep, my bad, physics is not among the strongest subject areas for me. Will edit my post when I get a moment.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

You should post them in the SR200 Discussion. But yeah, it's not really good against them. Unless, 'cause, it's Duo? Anyway thanks for the tests.

It's not really that either.
Earth Cancer SR200PD vs Gravity Perseus(Left Spin)W145WD
Alternating launches. Gravity weak launched.
Earth wins: 2/20(all KO)
Perseus wins: 18/20
Earth Win Percentage:10%

I don't think it's necessarily the LAD, it's more like height if you ask me. If you saw the Duo Cygnus 160PD thread, you notice it win against one of the most dangerous spin stealers of its time: MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD. Notice that I bolded the 165. If it were something like DF105 or something else, Duo probably would have lost. So I think it's just height. Thoughts?

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Oh, new page. Well, seeing as I was going to cross MF-M out alltogether after TBD's thread, I'll repost it I guess. I'll stick with the bolds and strikethroughs for the time being. Looked at Phoenic combo but H145 version doesn't have enough testing IMO.

ATTACK
MF/MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK>DEF, Counter Mode) 85/90/CH120/D125/R145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Beat Byxis/Lynx 90/CH120/GB145/H145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Cosmic Kerbecs/Unicorno II CH120/R145/TH170 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85/90/CH120/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
MSF-H Dark Knight/Gladiator/Samurai Wyvang CH120/GB145/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF (Crystal Up Mode)
MF/MF-H Pegasis 85/CH120/R145 RF/R2F/LRF

DEFENSE

MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/90/GB145/TH170/230 RSF/RF
MF-H Libra 90/GB145 RSF/RF

STAMINA

(MF-M) Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD
Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/WD/SD
(MF-M) Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/D/SD
Burn Bull/Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/D/SD
(MF-M) Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD
(MF-M) Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/MB/WD/SD

SPIN STEALERS

(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) CH120 EWD
(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) B: D
(MF-M) Gravity Perseus (Stamina) F230CF/GCF
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago CH120 EWD
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago B: D
(MF-M) Meteo L-Drago F230CF/GCF

ANTI-ATTACK
MF/MF-H Libra CH120/GB145/R145 RF

Explanations: (Click to View)

Regular metal faces added to attack and anti-attack setups as the difference is tiny and this was standard back in the day so they probably deserve to be there.

Gladiator on Wyvang: It's fairly safe to assume this works given the tests galaxy blade did and just looking at the thing and its weight.

D125 added to gravity because it *has* always been popular and as much as I think it's silly to use over ch120, on flicking back through the testing etc I probably let my own bias cloud my judgment on that one. Needs looking into tho.

LRF/R2F added to opposite spinning beys because they've never been found to do worse (and personally I find they seem to keep their speed a lot better with wear compared to the correct direction star-rubber bey and a standard RF.)

MF-M removed per TBD's thread with testing and explantion.

Crystal Up Mode clarifier added to Wyvang, as it's yet to see chrome up testing and personally given its properties that's not really a good way to use it IMO anyway.

No 90 on earth ltdc: Until I see comparatives with a suitable attack type showing it isn't worse than 85, I will argue against this. Also, Earth's issue is things hitting its slopes/steps and that would theoretically only serve to let slightly more things do that.

Also removed a leftover SWD.

Customs doing well in testing that I didn't put up there and why: (Click to View)

MSF-H Thief Phoenic H145RF/R2F/LRF - would like to see just a touch more testing from other users and maybe some tourney use, but I'll do the former myself once I get an MSF-H.
EDIT: Needs more testing with H145 in case weight loss hurts it against some things.

Gravity Perseus D125GCF - I'd like to see it succeed at a tournament first, which is a fairly common criterion for this sort of combo to make the list, as an assessment of practicality. I would also still like to see results against a couple of Libra combos and people to check other possible similar setups in case they work better (CH120, Perseus (ATK), maybe even Perseus (STA) but probably not).

SR200PD: Needs testing against the various relevant heights and maybe also spin stealers etc etc. Also MF-H Libra 230CS IMO but yeah.

Combos from winning combos list that need testing, off the top of my head: (Click to View)

MF-H Libra 230/TH170CS: Libra has a bit of force smash to it so this outspins a significant portion of the format and seems to not do too awful against the lower spin stealers or whatever. Easy to KO with a decent attack type but yeah, seems like a solid balance type to me.
Wyvang RSF thing - Like msf-h wyvang wyvang bd145rsf in standard, Kei used something along these lines at the TO tourney and did well, but I'm not sold on H145 being a safe track as for me it doesn't protect a really recoil-prone point on the underside of wyvang (and R145 could be used for extra weight and to help balance the combo out).

There are probably some others but that's all I can remember right now.

*snip*
Thoughts?

My thoughts are that this is more suited to the SR200 discussion thread or a PD discussion thread if/when one gets made

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I got an 85 vs. 90 LTDC comparison here...

Gravity Perseus 85R2F vs. Earth Aquario 85RSF
Aquario always launched first.

Detail Results (Click to View)

1. Aquario KO
2. Perseus KO
3. Aquario OS
4. Aquario OS
5. Perseus KO
6. Aquario OS
7. Aquario OS
8. Aquario OS
9. Aquario OS
10. Aquario OS
11. Perseus KO
12. Perseus KO
13. Aquario OS
14. Aquario OS
15. Aquario KO
16. Perseus KO
17. Aquario KO
18. Aquario OS
19. Perseus KO
20. Perseus KO

Perseus: 7 (0 OS, 7 KO)
Aquario: 13 (10 OS, 3 KO)
Perseus Win %: 35.0%


Gravity Perseus 85R2F vs. Earth Aquario 90RSF
Aquario always launched first.

Detail Results (Click to View)

1. Perseus KO
2. Aquario OS
3. Aquario OS
4. Perseus KO
5. Aquario OS
6. Aquario OS
7. Aquario OS
8. Aquario OS
9. Aquario OS
10. Aquario OS
11. Perseus KO
12. Perseus KO
13. Aquario OS
14. Perseus KO
15. Aquario OS
16. Aquario OS
17. Aquario KO
18. Aquario OS
19. Perseus KO
20. Perseus KO

Perseus: 7 (0 OS, 7 KO)
Aquario: 13 (12 OS, 1 KO)
Perseus Win %: 35.0%

At first glance, they appear to be on level, but I'm gonna have to say now that I've tried it that th!nk was absolutely right...

These tests are not representative of what Gravity did to Earth on 90. I lost count of the wall saves. 90 was far more easily knocked around than 85 was. I'm very confident that Gravity could've hit 50% given it had actually knocked toward the openings more. 85 is certainly superior in terms of Defense.

EDIT: BTW, the reason I'm not testing with MF is 'cause mine broke. XD

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Yes! Thanks for those TBD. See my point now thonk.

Yes! Thanks for those TBD. See my point now thonk.

Ah, but read the text following them, and see mine, " L "


@TBD: Wait you had two metal faces and both broke? PM me man, I need to hear how (with all respect and sympathy to the parts as their spirits travel to Beyblade Valhalla for an eternity of wonderful battling and customization, of course!)

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Ahhh, I missed that, haha. OK, go and take it of.

Re: SWD Competency Discussion

I drafted this post with a mirror test on SWD for its Discussion thread several months ago when some members were debating whether SWD would fare as well as WD in spin-stealer setups, but for some reason never posted it:

Equipment: (Click to View)

Launcher Rubber
Beylauncher
BB-10 Attack Type Beystadium
Mint WD
Mint SWD

Earth Pegasis II AD145WD vs Earth Pegasis II AD145SWD:
- Alternated launches
WD: 15 OS
SWD: 15 OS
Ties: 0

SWD Win Rate: 50%

Like others before me have observed, the combo launched first in a round typically lost. This test and the similar results of many other members would lead me to believe that SWD, being about equal to WD, will likely fare no better than WD in spin-stealer setup.

I remember thinking WD was superior to SWD Stamina-wise before the test, but my experiences here made me change my preconception.

Pretty out of the loop in all things right now, so take this as you will, lul.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

OK, I took my time to try update this. I made it in advanced for the ban list. If you see something wrong, please say.

ATTACK

MSF-H Theif Phoenic R145/H145 R2F (Crystal Up Mode)
MSF-H Dark Knight/Gladiator/Samurai Wyvang CH120/GB145/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF (Crystal Up Mode)
MF-H Omega Uranus/Unicorno/Horogium 90/R145/CH120 R2F/RF/LRF
MF/MF-H Beat Byxis/Lynx/ 90/CH120/GB145/H145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Cosmic Kerbecs/Unicorno II CH120/R145/TH170 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85/90/CH120/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF/MF-H Pegasis 85/CH120/R145 RF/R2F/LRF

DEFENSE

MF-H Bakushin Leone 90 RSF/RF/RB
MF-H Scythe Aquario GB145/85/90 RSF/RB
MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario/Sagittario II/Hades/Cygnus 85/GB145/R145/TH170/230 RSF/RB
MF-H Libra 90/85/GB145 RSF/RB

STAMINA

Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD
Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/WD/SD
Earth Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/D/SD
Burn Bull/Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 85/90/W145 EWD/WD/D/SD
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170/230 D/WD/SD

BALANCE
MF Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades 230 MB
MF Virgo 230 MB
(MF-L/M) Burn Aquario F230CS

SPIN STEALERS
Meteo L-Drago CH120 EWD
Meteo L-Drago B: D
Meteo L-Drago F230CF/GCF

ANTI-ATTACK
MF(-H) Scythe Pegasis II CH120RF
MF-H Libra CH120/GB145/R145/85 RF

Why is scythe still on there ? Doesn't it have a good chance of getting banned like gravity?
Please correct me if I am wrong.

---

Signature credit to Leet.o

Spoiler (Click to View)

Threads you should read:

Pony King ? God, can't believe I typed this. I have to put my keyboard in the dishwasher now...

dude are you a gangster

LOL did you asked Midnight to take that pic?

When a monochrome picture is posted on WBO, it doesn't mean that it's always from Midnight.

I wouldn't trust someone with that many Cancer faces.

Well damn.

@[The Supreme One] Soul Baez V145AS

There's nothing else really to do or say except wait for the Superbowl, but I'm only here so I don't get fined.



Time. *gets up and leaves*

We won't have tournaments in the winter. Cause we are not one of those Canadian people where they just go outside like nothing happened to their hands.

i like my coffee like i like my men B)



i don't like coffee

I never have.

*Ginga*.. you're drunk bro... go home.. : )

Tbh SGMS & BDMS are kinda worthless.
MSUV is a far better spent investment; DGMF is even better IMO.

Um what? You're just saying that because you're a dragoon fanboy...

Why would I be suspended????

HMS summarised:




Anything not Tornado Type S:  Wolborg will leave you #rekt




Otherwise:  Go crazy with Ultimate Grip Flat 




For something less cookie-cutter:  Jiraiya sure is sexy

Is Wolborg 2 useless for competitive play?

Extremely useless. 
Now, if you come upon one I'll just PM you my address so you can throw it away. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I wasn't looking for Beyblade Underwear, I swear

No, I think we agreed we would see tournament play of it first. Then we'd decide.

MF/MF-H Gravity Perseus (ATK>DEF, Counter Mode) 85/90/CH120/D125/R145/TR145 RF/R2F/LRF

Why 85/90?

MSF-H Dark Knight/Gladiator/Samurai Wyvang CH120/GB145/H145/R145 RF/R2F/LRF (Crystal Up Mode)

I don't know about Gladiator. Just my opinion

Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145/TH170 EWD/WD/SD

I think writing it this way would be better:
Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145 EWD/WD
Scythe Cancer/Cygnus/Hades TH170 D/SD

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)