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MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16)

Jun. 06, 2014  11:35 PM
 
At least personally, I feel that unbanning SA165 just makes spin stealers more of a problem, reduces the number of competitively viable tracks, and fails to add any new wrinkles to the metagame
Jun. 06, 2014  11:52 PM
 
(May. 24, 2014  2:07 AM)Virgo16 Wrote: I seriously want Scythe to be banned after Anime North. I'm willing to bet that the top combo will be a Scythe Hybrid combo.

You're hearing this from someone who has attended GBT2 at Anime North:

Scythe didn't have too much use whatsoever.

I remember using MF-H Scythe CH120RF against Leone19 at one point throughout the event, and lost against his Libra F230CF. I remember battling Kai-V with a non-synchromed Wyvang attacker, and won against her Scythe_TH170D, as well. Omega attackers and possibly Lightning L-Drago were the stars of the event that day.

I myself don't think it deserves a ban for another while. Maybe the next few Limited Format events will tell whether Scythe should have a ban or not. If that were to happen, I'd definitely only want both molds AA2 and AA4 to have a ban, since other molds don't have as much potential as those two. If I could recall, those two are among the better working ones.
Jun. 07, 2014  12:03 AM
 
While we're backing to discussing in this thread, I seriously think we're ready to unban gravity...
Jun. 07, 2014  12:09 AM
 
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Jun. 07, 2014  12:12 AM
 
(Jun. 06, 2014  11:52 PM)MidnightGFX Wrote: I think Omega deserves a ban, pronto!:

Omega has far too much competitive use involving Limited. After viewing TheBlackDragon's thread involving an Omega attacker once more, I saw that it was able to win the majority of matches every single battle, even if the records were quite close. It doesn't have any counters, as well. I'd like to see more of this combo in action myself, though.
I've actually seen combos put up a fight with Omega, so saying it has new combos isn't too accurate.

(Jun. 06, 2014  11:52 PM)MidnightGFX Wrote: Giving SA165 an unban won't be the best of ideas. It most certainly would give Omega a challenge, though it would break the Limited-meta, probably just as much as Omega. With that being said, I'd want to see testing with SA165, against more competitive combos in Limited, including Scythe and Omega of course. The results will tell whether it deserves an un-banning, or not. My main concern would be SA165 in Zero-G Attack Mode (or whatever it's called) on a Wyvang with a rubber bottom, like R2F, LRF, of possibly even GCF.
What about how SA165 doing against LTDC's? Since in Limited their actually a thing and used to defeat a lot of competitive attack combos. Heck, Libra 90RSF can beat some Stamina types. Unlike H145, SA165 can't offer much resistance to LTDC's. I'm not sure whether it would be a good idea to unban it or not, just providing a different perspective.
Jun. 07, 2014  12:23 AM
 
Due to the lack of activity (aside from mainly Dark) in the Advance Forum and since not many Advanced Members are around for whatnot, I'll post my opinion on this here:

Dark_Mousy Wrote:Also I would like to open the flor for discussion on SA165. Potentially Unbannable?

I really think testing should be done on this, but on my judgment I'd say no. It just seems like it'd overrun the Meta- SA165 Spin Stealers, SA165 Defense, SA165 Attackers, even regular Stamina on SA165. In general and on paper, it seems like it'd be too over powered for Limited, but without actual testing posted- we can't fairly say yes or no (aside from judgments on the matter).

Tongue_out
(Jun. 06, 2014  11:52 PM)MidnightGFX Wrote: Omega attackers and possibly Lightning L-Drago were the stars of the event that day.

From what others said and being there as well, I can say Omega wasn't really a star, at all. Despite winning several matches, it really was not used a lot or lost a good amount of the time.
Jun. 07, 2014  1:26 AM
 
(Jun. 07, 2014  12:03 AM)Time Wrote: While we're backing to discussing in this thread, I seriously think we're ready to unban gravity...

It has some smash, but more defense from how I've seen it.
Jun. 07, 2014  1:31 AM
 
(Jun. 07, 2014  1:26 AM)Neo~ Wrote:
(Jun. 07, 2014  12:03 AM)Time Wrote: While we're backing to discussing in this thread, I seriously think we're ready to unban gravity...

It has some smash, but more defense from how I've seen it.

I think it has too much recoil and not near enough weight to be considered for Defense. IMO.
Jun. 07, 2014  1:36 AM
 
I wouldn't say it was the "star", but I was surprised by the high usage of Libra at GBT2, not as a Defense/Anti-Attack type (though that was present as well), but for Stamina. I guess while it doesn't have the best Stamina of the available Limited Wheels, the extra weight is useful against Attack types.

(Jun. 07, 2014  12:03 AM)Time Wrote: While we're backing to discussing in this thread, I seriously think we're ready to unban gravity...

Why?

Leone19 Wrote:It just seems like it'd overrun the Meta- SA165 Spin Stealers, SA165 Defense, SA165 Attackers, even regular Stamina on SA165.

Bingo.
Jun. 07, 2014  1:47 AM
 
(Jun. 07, 2014  1:36 AM)Kei Wrote: I wouldn't say it was the "star", but I was surprised by the high usage of Libra at GBT2, not as a Defense/Anti-Attack type (though that was present as well), but for Stamina. I guess while it doesn't have the best Stamina of the available Limited Wheels, the extra weight is useful against Attack types.

(Jun. 07, 2014  12:03 AM)Time Wrote: While we're backing to discussing in this thread, I seriously think we're ready to unban gravity...

Why?

Leone19 Wrote:It just seems like it'd overrun the Meta- SA165 Spin Stealers, SA165 Defense, SA165 Attackers, even regular Stamina on SA165.

Bingo.

As far as Libra goes; that's exactly why I used it a lot during GBT2. For me, it was more useful in GBT2 since I was expecting Attack to be mainly used and if I wanted to use any Stamina wheel, Libra was the best choice with it's weight.

Gravity was banned for good reasons, not sure if we should be seeing it back quite yet.
Jun. 07, 2014  5:43 AM
 
As far as gravity goes. I would be all for unbanning it on adding the rule that its spin direction can not be changed for the duration of the match. Ill get some SA165 tests done tomorrow. But I think a decent attacker would be able to KO SA165 any day of the week.
Jun. 07, 2014  5:48 AM
 
I could do some SA165 tests tomorrow, what setups would anyone reccomend?
Jun. 07, 2014  6:02 AM
 
(Jun. 07, 2014  5:48 AM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote: I could do some SA165 tests tomorrow, what setups would anyone reccomend?

Some basic Defense and stamina testing. Maybe Burn SA165 WD vs Burn_____WD. Attack vs Defense test. Something Like Libra SA165 CS vs Lighting L Drago CH120 LRF, Omega 85/90 R2F Also Meteo L Drago SA165 EWD.
Jun. 07, 2014  7:04 AM
 
maybe you can do something where you can allow a few more 4d beys in, but only in certain modes, such as duo in attack mode. before such ban lists were made, nobody would think of using duo in attack mode.
Jun. 07, 2014  7:06 AM
 
Hey guys if we unban Gravity SA165 shouldn't be unbanned too unless we do that thing Dark said where you're locked into one direction (no pun intended).

Because if there's both, then everything will be MF-H Gravity Perseus Stamina SA165EWD. Technically we have B:D to do that already, but B:D isn't as good as it is in Standard because nothing has enough weight & low enough recoil to support it as well.
Jun. 07, 2014  7:46 AM
 
Sorry, didn't add enough context to that gravity post. It was supposed to be in reply to whoever it was who suggested keeping Omega. If people would ever just use attack, gravity is only a threat as an attack wheel itself (and on f230) on which setups it pails in comparison to the pure smash of omega
Jun. 07, 2014  9:50 PM
 
Stamina SA165 Mirror-Match testing:

Dark Knight Dragooon SA165WD Vs. Dark Knight Dragoon W145WD

SA165: 10(1KO, 9OS)
W145: 1(KO)
Ties: 3

SA165 Win Percentage: 91%

Alternating launches.



SA165 Defense testing:


MF Earth Hades SA165CS Vs. Dark Knight Wyvang(Crystal Up) GB145R2F

EH: 14(AllOS)
DKW: 6(All KO)
Ties: 0

SA165 Win Percentage: 70%


Benchmark:

MF Earth Hades GB145CS Vs. Dark Knight Wyvang(Crystal Up) GB145R2F

EH: 10(AllOS)
DKW: 10(All KO)
Ties: 0

GB145 Win Percentage: 50%

20% difference!
Jun. 07, 2014  10:08 PM
 
Not too shabby, but why only 11 battles for Dragooon? Was it because it was outclassing it at that point? Anyways based on those tests GB145 beats out SA165 most of the time and W145 on Dragooon also takes over it.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:38 PM
 
SA165 kills for stamina, but does it really make a different whether it's banned or not? I'd think most people would just use AD145 as a replacement anyway. I know I do.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:40 PM
 
Yeah, I went and did the extra one by accident lol. Plus it was a freak KO so it wasn't crucial information anyways. I think you have it backwards... SA165 was winning mostly.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:41 PM
 
(Jun. 07, 2014  10:38 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: SA165 kills for stamina, but does it really make a different whether it's banned or not? I'd think most people would just use AD145 as a replacement anyway. I know I do.
I personally use W145, and AD145 is a replacement for W145, so ultimately W145 is the most efficient.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:43 PM
 
Eh, I like W145 but I feel like AD145 is almost better because it's like a mini SA165. I see those two as the main, if not only, spin tracks to use for non-230 stamina.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:48 PM
 
(Jun. 07, 2014  10:43 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: Eh, I like W145 but I feel like AD145 is almost better because it's like a mini SA165. I see those two as the main, if not only, spin tracks to use for non-230 stamina.
In the meta I see more Duo W145 then AD145, but it's worth some testing to see which track has more Stamina.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:53 PM
 
I usually use more W145 for Duo but AD145 for Earth & other limited stamina wheels. Both are about the same width & balanced design, so I don't think it makes a huge difference which one you use.
Jun. 07, 2014  10:55 PM
 
Through my testing their pretty even, W145 is a bit better IMO though.
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