World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations Metal Fight Limited Customizations

[LTD] MF-H Omega Horuseus/Pegasis III 85R2F (Assault Mode)

Mar. 01, 2014  11:33 PM
 
MF-H Omega Horuseus/Pegasis III 85R2F (Assault Mode)

[Image: Omega+Pegasis+III.png]
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Hey guys! Here with another Limited Format Attack custom. I've gotten great results with this thing (perhaps a little, *Clears Throat* too good), so I hope you like it!

The Concept:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Parts choice:
Spoiler (Click to View)

The launch:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Testing:
Spoiler (Click to View)

Counters:
Spoiler (Click to View)

So yah, that's it. In a nutshell, this thing pretty much tears apart anything it touches... which could be good, but, looking at the benchmark and overall application of other wheels in the format, is honestly probably sort of not good. One person's results obviously don't mean everything, but after seeing how completely devastating this thing can be, I'd recommend we keep an eye on it.

I actually planned on using this today, but Dark's car broke down, and we were barely able to get Zero-G up and running before 1:00, so I didn't get a chance. Pity we couldn't have any tournament results, but oh well.

Anywho, post thoughts, questions, all that junk; but most importantly, if you can, post test results. That's a very important part to remember.

Thanks for reading! Smile
Mar. 01, 2014  11:39 PM
 
Holy applesauce, nice! But tests against MF-H bakushin leone 90RB and/or MF-H Libra 85RB are needed Wink

Also, I wonder how Peggy II would do...

EDIT: oh, and anti attack!
Mar. 01, 2014  11:39 PM
 
Can you test against MF-H Meteo S130GCF? And Scythe _____RF
Mar. 01, 2014  11:45 PM
 
I can supply tests of Bakushin v. this.Though, I'm pretty sure Bakushin can take this thing head on. Do you not have the Libra Metal Wheel? I wouldn't of loved to see it face-off against that. I'll test that too. Did Omega have any problems on 85? 'cause I remember playing with it once on 85 and it couldn't really get that smash. Maybe I had it in the wrong mode. Do you have a TH170? I'd love to see some TH170RSF customs against this.

As for counters, I'm pretty sure MF-H Libra CH120RF can stop this. I'll try get oficial results to prove that.
Mar. 01, 2014  11:46 PM
 
Guys, remember what I said?

Trying to conserve parts, haha. As much as I would like to, I'm not too crazy about taking requests right now. It'd be great if someone could get Bakushin testing done, though (like I asked in the OP).
Mar. 02, 2014  12:09 AM
 
Whenever I played around with Omega on 85, it never turned out too wonderfully.

I'm looking forward to Bakushin results. If I can, I'm going to test against Scythe CH120 RF.
Mar. 02, 2014  12:21 AM
 
60% with RF in a testing environment honestly doesn't scare me that much, even for 85 vs 230, tbh. Especially as it's only RSF rather than RB (which I find makes that flame combo much more effective btw). In a tournament situation, that number's gonna drop.

Your Lightning numbers are kinda odd btw - will have to look into it but I don't remember LLD 85RF ever outspinning R145 defense - in future, though, left spin wheels are not really that useful for benchmarking right spin combos - the entire point of benchmarking is to get a gauge of basically the effects of your launch and generally speaking, ability to sliding shoot left/right spin combos is usually not equal/even so KO counts don't really cut it either.
Either way, I get similar numbers to this with MF-H Pegasis CH120RF, so it's nothing new - attack looks very strong under testing conditions, but panicking over it is forgetting the whole "this is under testing conditions not tournament conditions" thing that is a major issue for anything using a flat rubber tip. Under tournament conditions, and with Anti-Attack running around, 60% vs RSF isn't worrying me allll that much so your OP sounds kinda overdramatic :\

Oh and uh for the record the term's Upward Smash. Smile

I was thinking about picking up an Omega with the very last of my funds, looks like I'm going to be doing that.

(Mar. 01, 2014  11:39 PM)Aquamarine Wrote: Can you test against MF-H Meteo S130GCF? And Scythe _____RF
S130 is a pretty poor choice of track for MLD, and given this thing has a big height and weight advantage, meteo is probably not going to do that well - perhaps you should stay away from requesting tests until you can make your requests worthwhile?
Mar. 02, 2014  12:22 AM
 
Fake tests (Click to View)
WBO Committee: It was recently brought to our attention that all tests by Crescent in this topic are fabricated. We urge you to forget their results and that someone trustworthy conduct the actual tests for the sake of this metagame.
Mar. 02, 2014  4:07 AM
 
I wasn't being overdramatic or panicking (or trying to sound like it at the very least). I just thought the numbers were a little worrying (seeing it in action is a bit more impressive, to be fair; I was having wall saves all over the place, and, as I stated previously, my R2F is very stiff and can't hold a flower pattern very well). It's not like I was freaking out or anything.

BTW guys, I just found something crazy. Horuseus (you'd think I would tried that already) gives this custom the same devastating Attack power against LTDC/MTDC (probably more, actually), while providing notable upwards smash against 230 opponents. So yah, it can essentially hit 70-80% against all defensive heights for me now.

But, just to be clear, if you want my honest opinion, this thing makes MF-H Pegasis CH120RF look like garbage. They're about equal vs. LTDC, but against MTDC/HTDC Omega (with Horuseus) is worlds better, not to mention it doesn't share Pegasis' heinous recoil. It really is pretty insane (I need to get in touch with SS1 about his results against Bakushin, though), easily the best Attack wheel I've ever seen. Just thought it might be worth keeping an eye on it, given what it did to everything I threw at it (not just its effectiveness against the current meta per say, but also how it stacks up to other Attack wheels, and whether or not it could potentially choke the use of any by too much; one of the biggest reasons Gravity was banned).

Of course, my judgment on how exactly an "overpowered" Attack wheel looks like could be clouded drastically by the fact that Gravity, which lost consistently to every LTDC I threw at it and never hit above 60-70% against any other Earth defender, was banned for being too effective as an Attack wheel, so...
Mar. 02, 2014  4:17 AM
 
I really like Horuseus with it's weight distribution. TBD: on any attack custom try Horuseus.
Mar. 02, 2014  4:31 AM
 
It isn't the weight distro (it looks pretty bad for Omega, actually, LOL), it's the shape. It gives you nutty smash against all heights (which is, again, one of the reasons Gravity was banned).

I don't have anything against Omega (it's actually one of my favorite parts). Just wanna watch out for the best interests of the game, which I don't think a low recoil, super consistent, high smash, wide height range LTAC wheel is too super great for (again, results could differ, and we could determine eventually that it isn't a problem, but it's probably a good idea to keep an eye on it).
Mar. 11, 2014  9:34 AM
 
Gravity was banned for multiple reasons - f230gcf being very problematic, and on the attack front it wasn't so much that the fact it hit all heights hard was a problem, but the fact that resulted in people using it 90% of the time instead of other attack wheels - the dual spin thing was big too.

Now, I got my Omega today, and seeing as the purple color isn't as nice as the bluish shade that appears in photos and because this is me we're talking about, no qualms about damaging the paint, so right onto trying it out. No formal tests - I'm not up to doing those right now, but I have some notes.

The first and most noticeable thing is how much the power varies depending on launch strength - I guess this is what the beywiki article means when it talks about requiring a lot more skill to use. If you don't launch really hard, it is not very impressive. This also means that more mobile defenders that can avoid the first few petals of its flower pattern stand a solid chance against it.
As it stands, it does probably do better against MF-H Scythe Cancer R145RB than anything else I've thrown at it - still not fantastic because my RB is aggro so it tends to avoid Omega a bit, I've not done enough rounds to really comment on it too much but from what I've seen, the matchup could still be problematic for Omega in a tournament situation.

For things that are able to KO 230 via track contact relatively easily, which omega can, Earth is probably the best wheel to put on it, rather than flame, not 100% on that but MF-H Earth Cygnus 230RB did seem more problematic for Omega than Flame.

MF-H Libra 85RSF is again a case where you really need to nail the launch - now to be fair, this is one of the better defense combinations to handle MF-H Pegasis CH120RF with and possibly the best LTDC vs 85-120 (not sure about taller stuff), so it's pretty serious hardware, but yeah. Omega does however dispatch Bakushin with minimal effort, but combinations that do that are not that hard to find these days - Pegasis and Jade CH120RF and MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RF are not too troubled by it, at least on RSF* (my RB is aggro now).

MF-H Libra CH120RF, as The Alchemist's tests show, seems to demolish it with little trouble. 2 person testing would be good in case that's the launch strength thing but yeah, it does seem more susceptible than a few other things I've played around with are to the combo, which would definitely hurt its usage when people actually start using what is one of the strongest combos in the format. Also probably worth mentioning that pitting Omega against the other 4D wheel in the format, Jade (MF-H Jade Lacerta CH120RF), is inadvisable from a Health and Safety perspective - upward aggression vs downward aggression, neither with low recoil, results without fail in two heavy metal beyblades flying out of the stadium at head height.

Did have some scraping concerns in cases where Omega was hit down from above, the RF I used is prime so it's still quite tall, but given Omega's overhang and width I would generally suggest 90 might be a safer choice of track, though I've not really tried it.

Clear Wheel wise, I'm not really clear on how any clear wheel would seriously obstruct omega as its contact points are along its outer edge. I've never considered Horuseus a particularly good aggressive clear wheel so I might play around with some others and see how things go, as I'm still not really convinced Horuseus is doing a great job tbh.

On the whole, from what little I've seen so far (basically pinch of salt and all that) while it is capable of pretty astounding power, I currently feel that Omega is a particularly demanding wheel, and that this will probably moderate its ability to dominate in general and in usage over other, easier to use wheels, like Lightning. As I said though, pinch of salt, I've not been feeling great the past couple of days and that could be affecting my launch a bit.

One thing I did note that concerns me a bit terms of using the combo myself is that at 85, Omega often makes contact with the sides of the tips of opposing beyblades, which is part of its efficacy vs 230 - plenty hits that didn't make contact with the MW bounced the 230 customs I was using upwards, and in the third instance I actually saw Omega hit the tip (this was fairly late in a match) and the characteristic 'bounce' resulted. Would be concerned about it breaking stuff, basically.


*Bakushin was really good against the prevailing attack customs when we came up with it and it is still a very respectable defense custom (always keep in mind that if I'm talking about Attack demolishing defense it's almost always going to be in testing situations, not tournament ones), however since it has become a primary target for Attack customs to beat the fact they could adapt due to the slopes that make it very effective against taller things being exploitable by 120-135ish attackers for leverage (amongst the bumps it has in its design) or by taller defense customs for an easy outspin, has basically resulted in things being much less favourable to Bakushin - though it is definitely not a wheel to dismiss.
On the plus side, I have found that MF-H Bakushin Horogium 85RSF (near mint RSF) doesn't get outspun by MF-H Libra CH120RF like other things I've tried and doesn't scrape too bad (obviously as RSF wears it will become an issue however, and I've not actually tried 85RB) so that at least is something.
Mar. 11, 2014  1:07 PM
 
I was actually able to KO a few things weak launching Omega, and I'm not really seeing the whole 'gotta launch crazy hard' thing (I actually did better against 230 launching at 85-90%, haha), and it's certainly easier for me to use than Lightning (although I have had a lot of practice with it, to be fair).

The CW selection is hard to explain, but I've definitely, definitely gotten far better results with Horuseus than I have with any other Clear Wheel. I have no idea what's making it work (it doesn't look too dangerous), but it definitely packs a punch compared to every other option I've tested.
Mar. 11, 2014  1:09 PM
 
In my own opinion 90 would be better suited for Omega than 85, only because of Omegas scrapping problems, i can understand a light decrease in smash but I think it's necessary. Ill do some of my own testing later today but I think the results will be better against MF-H Libra CH120RF.
Mar. 11, 2014  1:22 PM
 
I've never seen it scrape before, so I really can't comment on that. I wouldn't expect 90 to hurt its smash badly, since it doesn't have nearly a difficult time getting right where it needs to be on 85, and 0.5 millimeters isn't too drastic a height change.
Mar. 11, 2014  9:40 PM
 
No scraping and not needing MAXIMUM POWER to KO stuff (reliably, anyway, we're probably looking at more than 60% here, because that's really not cutting it in tournament situations) is definitely different to what I'm seeing, haha. Omega's overhang is huge for a limited format wheel (on 90RF it can still get under Libra and Bakushin even if they use like 85RS) so yeah I mean yes it's on RF, but even then, a decent hit from above is going to make it scrape and it won't be letting overzealous banking go unpunished.

Anyway, I intend to look into this combo and Omega in general a bit more over the next few days (a promising attack wheel and clear wheel choice for it to look into? Omega wins "things I love to investigate right now" bingo), probably starting with Clear Wheels for this combo as I suspect there'll be something better than Horuseus. Got a bunch of candidates to start with.
If I find something I think really rocks I might do formal testing, comparative with Horuseus. If so, do you have any suggestion as to what I should test it against. Would prefer to use RS even though it isn't legal just to have things stay in one place for better consistency but aside from that, yeah?

Oh also, noticed the combo is making 230 jump probably because it catches the underside lip of the track which protrudes slightly over most tips. Wonder if it works the same v TH220, though if someone else wants to look into it (preferably someone who has two TH170's or is able to get a replacement easily...) I would appreciate that as high powered attack types hitting a very important track while I'm too broke to replace it is not something I'm keen on.
Mar. 11, 2014  9:53 PM
 
Hmmm... Earth R145RS, perhaps? That'd be easy to evaluate, given the CW plays a huge role against mid-height opponents (although, testing against 230 would be great too, as Horuseus' smash to Earth 230's underside is one of the biggest reasons to use it).

I am also low on cash, and I only have one working TH170, so I'm hesitant to try it LOL. XD
Mar. 12, 2014  6:53 PM
 
@TBD: I can see the side-on smash in that matchup being a reason to use Horuseus, it is quite well shaped in that regard though I'd be worried about fragility. Wasn't aware it was as vital as you said vs 145 stuff so I'll go back over my selections (sooo many more things to look at now eguehguheghheg), though Kerbecs actually seemed to do decently there and against tall stuff to my surprise, but then that was only a few rounds as I was tired and I didn't get a chance to try it vs LTDC. Might test with Scythe on the 145 matchup rather than earth depending how things go (would do libra but its underside is too exploitable), just because I'm tired of breaking Earth wheels.
Did notice that I wasn't getting hits against 230 as effectively when I was using 90 and a fairly mint RF, so I'll switch back to 85, suspect it just made it too hard to land hits on the point I mentioned. Might quickly look into TH220 as a result of that, though.

Also, gave CH120 a quick shot and so far I agree that low tracks are probably the best place for Omega's attributes - basically the ability to get under LTDC etc is what differentiates it from other, more effective Metal Wheels. Again though, not really had enough time to look into it yet so can't be sure, just making these notes while I'm here, should have something more solid later.
EDIT: Yeah Omega's contact points side on in Assault mode at least aren't any good, curved at a bad angle so they only land glancing blows (look at where the wear is).

Still having trouble with it needing speed and it's not nearly effective enough against 230 to really worry me but again, want to play around with different tips etc. But yeah so far it still doesn't strike me as I guess practical??? enough to be a real threat to game balance. Really like it though.

(Mar. 12, 2014  6:23 PM)XtraCorruption Wrote: This question probably belongs on another thread but.... I have other combos (limited format combos) ive been wanting to test but I never know what to test them against.

It would go in the Limited Format Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Topic. We're working on an update for the list in the stickied topic with the All-Caps title, combinations in there are okay to test against but if you want to describe what kind of combinations your are testing or whatever over in the correct topic, we should be able to help you out.



EDIT: Okay, have notes on every CW I own but leaving that for the testing post. The four I came down to are Rex, Beafowl, Horuseus and Kerbecs, with Kerbecs probably being my favourite (I have it oriented with the spikes aligned with the wings). Just posting this as I'll probably do the testing tomorrow so if there are comments people want to raise about those four (especially Kerbecs as given it's kind of an obvious choice I'm sure there are reasons people didn't use it) now would be a good time.
Mar. 26, 2014  2:51 PM
 
Okay, I'm just now getting around to post all of these, sorry!

Omega sure has amazing attack power (in this format anyways) and some of these KOs were really fun to watch. Anyways, most rubber parts used were near mint. My RSF is slightly more aggro than it should be at times.

MF-H Omega Horuseus 85R2F vs. MF-H Bakushin Leone 90RB
Omega: 15 wins (All KO)
Bakushin: 5 wins (All OS)
Omega win rate: 75%

MF-H Omega Horuseus 85R2F vs. MF-H Scythe Kerbecs R145RSF
Omega: 17 wins (All KO)
Scythe: 3 wins (1 OS, 2 KO)
Omega win rate: 85%

MF-H Omega Horuseus 85R2F vs. MF-H Scythe Kerbecs 230RSF
Omega: 12 wins (All KO)
Scythe: 8 wins (All OS)
Omega win rate: 60%

MF-H Omega Horuseus 85R2F vs. MF-H Libra CH120RF
Omega: 9 wins (All KO)
Libra: 11 wins (1 OS, 10 KO)
Omega win rate: 45%

BENCHMARKS

MF-H Pegasis CH120RF vs. MF-H Bakushin Leone 85RB
Pegasis: 10 wins (All KO)
Bakushin: 10 wins (2 KO, 8 OS)
Pegasis win rate: 50%

MF-H Pegasis CH145RF vs. MF-H Scythe Kerbecs R145RSF
Pegasis: 16 wins (All KO)
Scythe: 4 wins (All OS)
Pegasis win rate: 70%

MF-H Pegasis CH145RF vs. MF-H Scythe Kerbecs 230RSF
Pegasis: 9 wins (All KO)
Scythe: 11 wins (All OS)
Pegasis win rate: 45%

... and finally

MF-H Pegasis W145RF vs. MF-H Libra CH120RF
Pegasis: 6 wins (All KO)
Libra: 14 wins (All KO)
Pegasis win rate: 30%

I couldn't use CH120 on Pegasis because Libra was using my only one.

Anyways, this custom is awesome! I'd use the carp out of it in a competitive situation. Now for the big question, would I use it instead of Pegasis? Honesty, that's extremely hard to say but I'm leaning more towards Omega seeing as it did get better results in different conditions with the heights of the tracks of the opponent. Seeing such a low attacker take out a 230 defender was awesome. Plus it did much better against Libra anti-attack than Pegasis. Also Pegasis suffers from more recoil problems than Omega.

Ask for more information on my tests if you want or if you want more if I messed up somewhere.
Mar. 26, 2014  3:23 PM
 
That's odd - Scythe R145 is the only actual Defense type that causes either of them trouble for me (even MF-H Scythe Cancer 230RB isn't really troublesome for Pegasis - Omega had more trouble from the few chances I got to try it just now), and definitely works better than Bakushin - I was using RB on it though, so try that perhaps? MF-H Scythe Aquario R145RB basically shuts down Pegasis, so it's the only time I really noticed Omega's extra power while trying various things out today (I wish I could do tests but I have to watch the part wear and I'm running low on rubber). I was using CH120 on Pegasis which I can see now might not be the best option (though quickly trying it didn't help too much), but only 15% vs Omega is ridic.

Against Libra CH120 you would never use Pegasis at 145 height by the way. Be better to go with Libra D125 vs both of them or the like, as Pegasis being on 145 in that matchup is very unfair toward it.

Oh, and it would also be good if you could test against MF-H Flame Aquario 230RB, as that's another combo where I find Pegasis more reliable than Omega (though I imagine the fact I was using a rather heavy Flame would affect Omega's ability to KO a bit more than Pegasis' seeing as it's mostly hitting plastic).
Mar. 27, 2014  3:38 AM
 
Just to say, Tri's results reflect mine almost identically.

Although, to be fair, with Scythe's overhang, it is one of the easier 230 Defense types for Omega to KO (as the only thing stopping it is lack of a good, solid point of contact), and I usually get slightly better results with Pegasis against Earth 230. I'm not saying those results aren't the same (Omega works better than Pegasis against Scythe 230 for me), but it isn't exactly the fairest comparison.

But yah, those numbers definitely reflect what I'm seeing with Omega in comparison to Pegasis.
Apr. 21, 2014  11:29 PM
 
does omega knock out MF-H libra 85 rb alot?
Apr. 24, 2014  1:42 AM
 
(Apr. 21, 2014  11:29 PM)ULTIMATE BLAZE Wrote: does omega knock out MF-H libra 85 rb alot?
I'm guessing It'd be able to, depending on the mold.