Wing is surprisingly good at defense. I can run you through why everything that is banned is banned some time, but I'm super tired right now so it'll have to wait til tomorrow. I need to write up a list of it all anyhow.
MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16)
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I'm baaaaack
With an opinion
I really want to see Jade, Fusion, Kries, and Omega unbanned. They are all interesting and potentially useful parts that simply couldn't compete with contemporary combos. With the removal of the super-heavy wheels that kept them from being useful, these parts actually have a chance to shine. I doubt that they will be heavy enough to be completely dominant over their pre-4D peers.
I don't think Gravity and Libra should be banned YET. If they seem to be winning too many tournaments, then a ban might be considered - but at least give them a chance. Zero-G, 4D and even late Metal Fight parts will certainly make the meta quite a bit different from the Metal System's, and I've seen some discussion about whether Libra should have been banned at all back then.
With an opinion
I really want to see Jade, Fusion, Kries, and Omega unbanned. They are all interesting and potentially useful parts that simply couldn't compete with contemporary combos. With the removal of the super-heavy wheels that kept them from being useful, these parts actually have a chance to shine. I doubt that they will be heavy enough to be completely dominant over their pre-4D peers.
I don't think Gravity and Libra should be banned YET. If they seem to be winning too many tournaments, then a ban might be considered - but at least give them a chance. Zero-G, 4D and even late Metal Fight parts will certainly make the meta quite a bit different from the Metal System's, and I've seen some discussion about whether Libra should have been banned at all back then.
A few of those wheels are heavier than Libra, which already has a big lead weight wise on the rest of the format.
However, stay tuned as I'm quite sure if we decide to do experimental updates or whatever, something like that will certainly be one of them. I've got a Kreis coming too, TBD says it's broken as heck and I'm inclined to believe that but I will look into it.
(Also welcome back)
As for libra being banned back then, it probably deserved it originally, but once RSF came out it wasn't that big a deal any more as it lost its ability to KO defense.
However, stay tuned as I'm quite sure if we decide to do experimental updates or whatever, something like that will certainly be one of them. I've got a Kreis coming too, TBD says it's broken as heck and I'm inclined to believe that but I will look into it.
(Also welcome back)
As for libra being banned back then, it probably deserved it originally, but once RSF came out it wasn't that big a deal any more as it lost its ability to KO defense.
Good to hear that dude!! We are thinking of unbanning:Fusion and Omega (not sure about Jade). I myself, wouldn't like Kries back. It has a free-spining wheel, witch I think would mess up Limited. It would be able to nearly win eveything it battles, haha. Try to keep that in mind. Right now, Gravity doesn't look like it's gonna get banned. More of a F230 CF/GCF ban. Libra shouldn't really be banned ever, haha. It does get good results, but not game breaking.
(Jan. 12, 2014 1:54 AM)th!nk Wrote: Wing is surprisingly good at defense. I can run you through why everything that is banned is banned some time, but I'm super tired right now so it'll have to wait til tomorrow. I need to write up a list of it all anyhow.
hmm interesting. i would test out its defensive abilities but without a RSF, or CS, it would be a bit crummy.
i did read the OP but it seemed to be missing some stuff from what i have seen on the forum, so thanks a lot man.
from what i am seeing right now with Wing (2) leon 100LRF is that it "KOs" from knocking the opponent over so it scrapes, bounces, and self KOs, more so then any other attack wheel i have seen..
it literally destabilizes them xD
Okay I think it's about time I speak and break down a few things. First off though, are we seriously still talking about Gravity here? The same wheel that is recoil prone to anything with a similar to a wheel with attributes of Basalt, or in the case of this format, Bakushin with it's clear wheel capabilities (which IMO is extremely underlooked considering the vast amount of options it gives you. It has never been some supremely dominant wheel by any means and Lightning is way better for attack than Gravity as well. Always has been. I'm not sure what this whole matter of Lightning being weak against weak launching thing comes from but that has never been an issue for me. In fact, when I see someone weak launch and I'm using any attacker for that matter, I honestly look at it as a free win no matter what format because I am skilled with attack and with a wheel with reliable smash, it's easy to KO weak launched beys. That's the honest truth. Can someone explain why they are having these issues so I understand?
Another thing that baffles me is the amount of hate towards one wheel. Gravity is the only wheel in the format other than that sorry excuse for a VariAres that Hasbro put out that is multidirectional. I'm not sure if everyone is hip to this but that is needed in a competitive situation. Gravity gives you a chance to alter your gameplay and possibly counter what would be your defeat in one direction and give you a fighting chance. It's going to be good to some pretty good degree given its shape and abilities but that makes it especially necessary rather than detrimental. I don't see how that could even be considered as non-essential and to top it all of, Gravity isn't even overpowered! By any means. On top of that, F230CF/GCF should not be doing anything in the BB-10 especially if you have any reasonably good attacker on a 145 track or higher. There's really no excuse. Look at these results I have:
BB-10 Stadia
Beylauncher L/R used on both beys
Directions alternated on Gravity after 10 rounds
Lightning L-Drago H145LRF vs. MF Gravity Perseus F230CF (Stamina version in right spin)
Lightning:19/20 (ALL KOs within the first 10 seconds)
Gravity: 1/20 (One single KO from pushing Lightning out while on the tornado ridge in right spin)
Now as I said, I am very good with attack and I really don't know what's going on with the current metagame. Gravity didn't even stand a chance stalling against this. I was more afraid of Lightning H145 breaking F230 or even CF from the kind of hits it delivered. I wish I would have stopped at 10 rounds to save my LRF because it was a very boring test after the first 3 wins of back to back KOs. Lightning has never been a push over to any beyblade in it's series so I don't know what's changed for everyone else.
Another thing I don't understand is how Gravity T125GCF is doing anything to any beyblades other than stamina types or defense types. This thing has NO grip to the stadium and gets KOed so easily. I pray for the day someone uses this against me! I really just don't see how this is so gamebreaking. I'm not trying to play on anyone's intelligence or skill with this so don't get me wrong. I am simply saying that I think this whole ban Gravity OR Gravity F230 is a bit much when, as said by many others, people have yet to explore old yet extremely efficient combos and even more new ones to be unearthed.
Another thing that baffles me is the amount of hate towards one wheel. Gravity is the only wheel in the format other than that sorry excuse for a VariAres that Hasbro put out that is multidirectional. I'm not sure if everyone is hip to this but that is needed in a competitive situation. Gravity gives you a chance to alter your gameplay and possibly counter what would be your defeat in one direction and give you a fighting chance. It's going to be good to some pretty good degree given its shape and abilities but that makes it especially necessary rather than detrimental. I don't see how that could even be considered as non-essential and to top it all of, Gravity isn't even overpowered! By any means. On top of that, F230CF/GCF should not be doing anything in the BB-10 especially if you have any reasonably good attacker on a 145 track or higher. There's really no excuse. Look at these results I have:
BB-10 Stadia
Beylauncher L/R used on both beys
Directions alternated on Gravity after 10 rounds
Lightning L-Drago H145LRF vs. MF Gravity Perseus F230CF (Stamina version in right spin)
Lightning:19/20 (ALL KOs within the first 10 seconds)
Gravity: 1/20 (One single KO from pushing Lightning out while on the tornado ridge in right spin)
Now as I said, I am very good with attack and I really don't know what's going on with the current metagame. Gravity didn't even stand a chance stalling against this. I was more afraid of Lightning H145 breaking F230 or even CF from the kind of hits it delivered. I wish I would have stopped at 10 rounds to save my LRF because it was a very boring test after the first 3 wins of back to back KOs. Lightning has never been a push over to any beyblade in it's series so I don't know what's changed for everyone else.
Another thing I don't understand is how Gravity T125GCF is doing anything to any beyblades other than stamina types or defense types. This thing has NO grip to the stadium and gets KOed so easily. I pray for the day someone uses this against me! I really just don't see how this is so gamebreaking. I'm not trying to play on anyone's intelligence or skill with this so don't get me wrong. I am simply saying that I think this whole ban Gravity OR Gravity F230 is a bit much when, as said by many others, people have yet to explore old yet extremely efficient combos and even more new ones to be unearthed.
East:
No offense intended at all, but you may wanna read up a bit more on certain things before stating your opinion. Gravity is actually one of the lowest-recoil Attack wheels in this format. Lightning, as shown by testing, is not "way better" in terms of smash by any means. Some people might find it slightly superior (myself included. Glad someone else is getting relatively similar results), but it certainly isn't better by that much. It is one of the most potent Attack wheels in the format for certain.
Gravity F230 is a problem because you can weak launch it near the center against Attack ( which I'm assuming you didn't do based on your numbers). Lightning is also arguably the most effective Attack wheel in the format against 230 - height combinations. That said, most attackers will not be able to achieve anywhere near that high a win rate, even if Gravity is launched at full power. Plus, the damage it does to the Stamina meta is overwhelming.
F230 has, overall, had quite a damaging record in all formats, but it's at its worst used with a multi-directional wheel. I've done extensive testing on the subject, and I can assure you that a tournament with Gravity F230 in will not be the prettiest sight.
As for Gravity T125GCF, it has an amazing record against Attack. Its speed, low center of gravity, high smash, low recoil, and ability to re-accelerate quickly make it what I would actually call an relatively optimal choice against Attack in this format.
So yah.
You might also wanna read this thread. It makes a very important point that I think everyone should acknowledge during testing with Attack types.
No offense intended at all, but you may wanna read up a bit more on certain things before stating your opinion. Gravity is actually one of the lowest-recoil Attack wheels in this format. Lightning, as shown by testing, is not "way better" in terms of smash by any means. Some people might find it slightly superior (myself included. Glad someone else is getting relatively similar results), but it certainly isn't better by that much. It is one of the most potent Attack wheels in the format for certain.
Gravity F230 is a problem because you can weak launch it near the center against Attack ( which I'm assuming you didn't do based on your numbers). Lightning is also arguably the most effective Attack wheel in the format against 230 - height combinations. That said, most attackers will not be able to achieve anywhere near that high a win rate, even if Gravity is launched at full power. Plus, the damage it does to the Stamina meta is overwhelming.
F230 has, overall, had quite a damaging record in all formats, but it's at its worst used with a multi-directional wheel. I've done extensive testing on the subject, and I can assure you that a tournament with Gravity F230 in will not be the prettiest sight.
As for Gravity T125GCF, it has an amazing record against Attack. Its speed, low center of gravity, high smash, low recoil, and ability to re-accelerate quickly make it what I would actually call an relatively optimal choice against Attack in this format.
So yah.
You might also wanna read this thread. It makes a very important point that I think everyone should acknowledge during testing with Attack types.
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In response to TBD: The thing is, I have already read these threads and have done testing, real life experience and actual knowledge of the game. All the things you are saying are not new to me in any way, shape or form. Gravity does have recoil period and that's exactly what I am getting at. All of the current wheels available for optimal attack performance have recoil whether it is minute or excessive. A combo that exploits this recoil, especially with the appropriate wheel, will wreck Gravity anyway along with every other wheel that has any recoil at all in a given attack type. I know you may see me a new or something and to this site, you would be right. However, I am not new to this game in any way and I know and have had experience with combos that support everything I said.
What I am trying to say is, I do not feel like these combos are working against skilled attack bladers or any blader thinking outside of the box here. It just doesn't make any sense. I myself would not lose to something like Gravity T125GCF and that's the honest truth. It is just too simple to beat with anything moving with the same speed in either direction with enough force behind it. People have tried this same concept with WF and XF back in the day and despite GCF and CF having more LAD towards the end, the concepts are the same. The same things that beat these combos before can beat them again and the bottoms are virtually the same size in terms of GCF width=XF width and CF=WF. I really just can't wrap my finger around these combos being so effective against people lately when they have never been this threatening.
What I am trying to say is, I do not feel like these combos are working against skilled attack bladers or any blader thinking outside of the box here. It just doesn't make any sense. I myself would not lose to something like Gravity T125GCF and that's the honest truth. It is just too simple to beat with anything moving with the same speed in either direction with enough force behind it. People have tried this same concept with WF and XF back in the day and despite GCF and CF having more LAD towards the end, the concepts are the same. The same things that beat these combos before can beat them again and the bottoms are virtually the same size in terms of GCF width=XF width and CF=WF. I really just can't wrap my finger around these combos being so effective against people lately when they have never been this threatening.
If you are so sure of your idea's, how about post a video showing your apparent skill in all formats. If it is so easy to do, then also doing 20 rounds of tests should not be a problem.
(Jan. 12, 2014 5:26 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: If you are so sure of your idea's, how about post a video showing your apparent skill in all formats. If it is so easy to do, then also doing 20 rounds of tests should not be a problem.
I wouldn't mind that at all! Believe me, a video proposal does not change or alter my ideas. The very second I get my hands on a solid camera, which wont take too much time, I will provide this video. Tell me this though. When I do post it, what difference will it make if you can not replicate it? Does that make it invalid to you and others as well? That is something you should think about when proposing someone does something and in the event of them proving exactly what they said after already wasting their time with test results that should be believable and even easy to attain had the person proposing tried it themselves or brushed up on their own abilities. In this case, I would be just burning out an RF, R2F OR LRF for another 20 rounds of testing when I already know the results just for the sake of proving something that should be obvious.You can't tell me you expect a plastic base with zero grip on the stadium to beat out a much faster rubber based combo and not get KOed with ease.
So yeah, you can have your video but this wont be an "every idea post a video" thing with me. I actually know what I am talking about here and I'm not going to wear down parts just to keep reinforcing my statements.
(Jan. 12, 2014 5:40 PM)East Wrote:(Jan. 12, 2014 5:26 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: If you are so sure of your idea's, how about post a video showing your apparent skill in all formats. If it is so easy to do, then also doing 20 rounds of tests should not be a problem.
I wouldn't mind that at all! Believe me, a video proposal does not change or alter my ideas. The very second I get my hands on a solid camera, which wont take too much time, I will provide this video. Tell me this though. When I do post it, what difference will it make if you can not replicate it? Does that make it invalid to you and others as well? That is something you should think about when proposing someone does something and in the event of them proving exactly what they said after already wasting their time with test results that should be believable and even easy to attain had the person proposing tried it themselves or brushed up on their own abilities. In this case, I would be just burning out an RF, R2F OR LRF for another 20 rounds of testing when I already know the results just for the sake of proving something that should be obvious.You can't tell me you expect a plastic base with zero grip on the stadium to beat out a much faster rubber based combo and not get KOed with ease.
So yeah, you can have your video but this wont be an "every idea post a video" thing with me. I actually know what I am talking about here and I'm not going to wear down parts just to keep reinforcing my statements.
A thing to remember is to treat all members with respect.
No need to be so rude about it.
I'm looking forward to see if the video suppers your claims, though.
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I don't think he's being rude. I'd be annoyed if people couldn't believe in my abilities. It is true, those CF/GCF combos are easy to KO for me to and I've been beating that D125GCF combo a lot easier than when I originally posted it. Even if I weak launched the GCF/CF combo I could get an effective KO.
I'm doing testing right now and Gravity is getting clean KOs ...
(Jan. 12, 2014 5:40 PM)East Wrote: I wouldn't mind that at all! Believe me, a video proposal does not change or alter my ideas. The very second I get my hands on a solid camera, which wont take too much time, I will provide this video. Tell me this though. When I do post it, what difference will it make if you can not replicate it? Does that make it invalid to you and others as well?
If done properly, it will certainly give credence to what you, a newly registered member, claim, which is vastly different results than most here get. But no, that doesn't mean it will make your claim the new general truth about what works and what doesn't. If that's what you want, than you might as well not waste your time making the video. Hopefully, if you are who I believe you to be, you shouldn't be too unfamiliar with that concept, and will have learned from your last dance here. If not, well, that doesn't change anything I said.
I think Tri has the right idea here:
I must say I wonder if this change in performance is at all related to how XF used to get worn with time (though IIRC that was more of a stamina issue than vs attack). I do okay with it against attack nowadays but I don't really want to test it because it's one of those things where 2 person testing is basically compulsory to get accurate results.
East: The Gravity v Lightning thing is surprising to me but in the other direction, and always has been really, as someone whose first MFB purchase was the Gravity Perseus URS, i.e. someone who always had the Attack Version of Perseus, Gravity has always had a slight edge on lightning. Plus Random Booster 7 or whatever the beat lynx one was came with a slightly heavier mold of gravity too. I've posted my results with both of them throughout random thoughts and yeah gravity perseus (ATK) is always slightly better to me offensively, and it's also heavier for attack vs attack etc. To me Gravity Perseus(ATK) is basically just a big mass of effective contact points with a lot of momentum behind it (which is real nice for left spin). Also personally speaking I've never found Gravity to have serious recoil issues (aside from one set of tests a few days back that had a tonne of DKO's, but Gravity still won by a massive margin), especially not compared to Lightning. Against Basalt, Gravity might bounce off a little more than Lightning because of what I said above about lightning's attack style being better for handling it, but so do most other wheels that aren't lightning (and aside from certain combos/matchups lightning is usually too light to budge basalt reliably enough).
As I remember it back in the day, when people started to catch on about Perseus (Attack Ver) making Gravity at least as good as lightning, BD145 and Basalt came out and suddenly Gravity's ability to get under stuff with that overhang meant it tended to hit the disk a bit more often than other wheels, and with Basalt 230CS being very popular, Lightning's upward smash when combined with the weight of BD145 became a lot more reliably over all than Gravity for handling it (and it could also spin equalize with Basalt BD145 for those of us who never really managed to knock that dang thing out reliably til mid 4D).
So IDK I feel like a lot of people didn't give gravity perseus (ATK) a fair go but hey maybe it's just one of those things where some people get better results out of wheel A and other out of wheel B.
Either way, the whole thing with gravity looking at being banned is I think because that dual spin versatility and its ability to do well against tall and same height opponents and still have a chance against lower opponents in a single combo just makes it so much more practical than the other attack wheels in a tourney situation. Personally I am really sad to see it go especially as I'm still on the fence about whether or not it's necessary/actually a healthy decision w/ regards to attack type usage, but keep in mind the banlist is definitely not set in stone so down the line it could be reintroduced.
As for Gravity F230, I think the main way people who have voiced concern about it is less that it's outright broken and more about the fact it still has a shot against even the main counter (attack), though I've heard a couple different things about what gives it that chance - I don't think it'd be weak launching as that doesn't really do anything vs attack without a good defensive tip (usually RSF, it can also depend on the combo for example in my own experience, Gravity and LLD suffer against weak launched earth/libra/bakushin (scythe gets wrecked by left spin, presumably that's the weight distro exaggerating the pushing effect of opposite spin attack), but if you weak launch a defense combo against a chrome wheel attacker, all you do is remove the recoil that usually holds them back, so they will smack you straight out even with a glancing blow). What I think it is more is that F230CF/GCF in same spin gives Gravity a shot at avoiding you long enough that you don't have the power left to KO it, which can be enough at tournaments. Personally though, I still don't have an F230 so I can't really say either way.
(Jan. 12, 2014 6:03 PM)Tri Wrote: I don't think he's being rude. I'd be annoyed if people couldn't believe in my abilities. It is true, those CF/GCF combos are easy to KO for me to and I've been beating that D125GCF combo a lot easier than when I originally posted it. Even if I weak launched the GCF/CF combo I could get an effective KO.And I'd also add on that as someone who has a similar distaste for tip wear to what East has expressed that I do get what he means there. But yeah, he says he can post a vid and I definitely want to see what he's seeing here so I say we give him the space to do so, yeah?
I must say I wonder if this change in performance is at all related to how XF used to get worn with time (though IIRC that was more of a stamina issue than vs attack). I do okay with it against attack nowadays but I don't really want to test it because it's one of those things where 2 person testing is basically compulsory to get accurate results.
East: The Gravity v Lightning thing is surprising to me but in the other direction, and always has been really, as someone whose first MFB purchase was the Gravity Perseus URS, i.e. someone who always had the Attack Version of Perseus, Gravity has always had a slight edge on lightning. Plus Random Booster 7 or whatever the beat lynx one was came with a slightly heavier mold of gravity too. I've posted my results with both of them throughout random thoughts and yeah gravity perseus (ATK) is always slightly better to me offensively, and it's also heavier for attack vs attack etc. To me Gravity Perseus(ATK) is basically just a big mass of effective contact points with a lot of momentum behind it (which is real nice for left spin). Also personally speaking I've never found Gravity to have serious recoil issues (aside from one set of tests a few days back that had a tonne of DKO's, but Gravity still won by a massive margin), especially not compared to Lightning. Against Basalt, Gravity might bounce off a little more than Lightning because of what I said above about lightning's attack style being better for handling it, but so do most other wheels that aren't lightning (and aside from certain combos/matchups lightning is usually too light to budge basalt reliably enough).
As I remember it back in the day, when people started to catch on about Perseus (Attack Ver) making Gravity at least as good as lightning, BD145 and Basalt came out and suddenly Gravity's ability to get under stuff with that overhang meant it tended to hit the disk a bit more often than other wheels, and with Basalt 230CS being very popular, Lightning's upward smash when combined with the weight of BD145 became a lot more reliably over all than Gravity for handling it (and it could also spin equalize with Basalt BD145 for those of us who never really managed to knock that dang thing out reliably til mid 4D).
So IDK I feel like a lot of people didn't give gravity perseus (ATK) a fair go but hey maybe it's just one of those things where some people get better results out of wheel A and other out of wheel B.
Either way, the whole thing with gravity looking at being banned is I think because that dual spin versatility and its ability to do well against tall and same height opponents and still have a chance against lower opponents in a single combo just makes it so much more practical than the other attack wheels in a tourney situation. Personally I am really sad to see it go especially as I'm still on the fence about whether or not it's necessary/actually a healthy decision w/ regards to attack type usage, but keep in mind the banlist is definitely not set in stone so down the line it could be reintroduced.
As for Gravity F230, I think the main way people who have voiced concern about it is less that it's outright broken and more about the fact it still has a shot against even the main counter (attack), though I've heard a couple different things about what gives it that chance - I don't think it'd be weak launching as that doesn't really do anything vs attack without a good defensive tip (usually RSF, it can also depend on the combo for example in my own experience, Gravity and LLD suffer against weak launched earth/libra/bakushin (scythe gets wrecked by left spin, presumably that's the weight distro exaggerating the pushing effect of opposite spin attack), but if you weak launch a defense combo against a chrome wheel attacker, all you do is remove the recoil that usually holds them back, so they will smack you straight out even with a glancing blow). What I think it is more is that F230CF/GCF in same spin gives Gravity a shot at avoiding you long enough that you don't have the power left to KO it, which can be enough at tournaments. Personally though, I still don't have an F230 so I can't really say either way.
Weak launching a good F230 will,due to the free-spinning shaft, cause the custom to remain relatively stationary in the center usually. You can also bank while weak launching, which is usually even more effective. Overall, it's just crazy annoying and very difficult to land a solid hit on if the user launches correctly, no matter how skilled you are with any given Attack type.
Trust me, if you actually owned an F230, you would agree. XD I assure you that you do not wanna go down that road with Limited format.
Trust me, if you actually owned an F230, you would agree. XD I assure you that you do not wanna go down that road with Limited format.
(Jan. 12, 2014 11:36 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Weak launching a good F230 will,due to the free-spinning shaft, cause the custom to remain relatively stationary in the center usually. You can also bank while weak launching, which is usually even more effective. Overall, it's just crazy annoying and very difficult to land a solid hit on if the user launches correctly, no matter how skilled you are with any given Attack type.
Trust me, if you actually owned an F230, you would agree. XD I assure you that you do not wanna go down that road with Limited format.
I own an F230 myself, the takara Orange and a pretty nice red one as well and these I don't have the troubles you are describing as I have said before. What does your statement imply in this case? And how far are you extending that? I think it would be wise to assess who is using what combo instead of singling out the combo and saying the difficulty will be the same regardless of skill level which I disagree with.
If you are as skilled at launching as you say you are, you would most likely know that banking in same-spin is nearly always the best option for Gravity F230 when playing against Attack, and that stalling in opposite-spin is just about the absolute worst possible technique to use, LOL. XD
Banking weakly in opposite spin can also be a very effective technique against anything besides Lightning.
It is pretty common knowledge that Lighting works particularly well against 230-height opponents. It is also extremely effective against opponents in opposite-spin, which rids its opponent of the option of weak launching. Those attributes make it probably the most effective Attack wheel to use against Gravity F230. However, other Attack wheels have an extremely difficult time reaching as high a win rate, and losing to Lightning MTAC and basically only Lightning MTAC is pretty niche.
Regardless of how skilled you are at home in your living room, a tournament situation is much more different than you think it is. In a situation where your opponent could launch in any way, and you don't control the opposing beyblade, it is much, much harder to win in than it is at home, where there is also no stress factor.
A lot of the time it doesn't matter how amazing your launch is. My sliding shoot is nearly always spot-on and I can launch quite a bit harder and smoother than your average person, but, seeing as in a tournament you don't know where the opposing top is going to land, sometimes you just miss, ya know?
Also, that last bit about owning an F230 was actually directed at th!nk.
Banking weakly in opposite spin can also be a very effective technique against anything besides Lightning.
It is pretty common knowledge that Lighting works particularly well against 230-height opponents. It is also extremely effective against opponents in opposite-spin, which rids its opponent of the option of weak launching. Those attributes make it probably the most effective Attack wheel to use against Gravity F230. However, other Attack wheels have an extremely difficult time reaching as high a win rate, and losing to Lightning MTAC and basically only Lightning MTAC is pretty niche.
Regardless of how skilled you are at home in your living room, a tournament situation is much more different than you think it is. In a situation where your opponent could launch in any way, and you don't control the opposing beyblade, it is much, much harder to win in than it is at home, where there is also no stress factor.
A lot of the time it doesn't matter how amazing your launch is. My sliding shoot is nearly always spot-on and I can launch quite a bit harder and smoother than your average person, but, seeing as in a tournament you don't know where the opposing top is going to land, sometimes you just miss, ya know?
Also, that last bit about owning an F230 was actually directed at th!nk.
Now before I say what I want to, let me just say, I have been out of the game for a while, so what I say might completely stupid and utter nonsense. But I feel like I can help and provide my opinion. I feel like parts (more specifically, the tracks) should be banned for specific areas, such as the E230. Now, from what I've seen, The E230's forte is in Defense and stamina, but it's not so good for attack (it may be just my E230, but I'm just using what I've seen). Now it may be bad, but what if someone finds a combo that makes it work. I think it expands the flexibility more. Now I may just be talking jibberish and the case may be that all the parts banned are too good for everything, but it maybe something to consider for future ban potentials.
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(Jan. 13, 2014 1:46 AM)BeyCenter Wrote: Now before I say what I want to, let me just say, I have been out of the game for a while, so what I say might completely stupid and utter nonsense. But I feel like I can help and provide my opinion. I feel like parts (more specifically, the tracks) should be banned for specific areas, such as the E230. Now, from what I've seen, The E230's forte is in Defense and stamina, but it's not so good for attack (it may be just my E230, but I'm just using what I've seen). Now it may be bad, but what if someone finds a combo that makes it work. I think it expands the flexibility more. Now I may just be talking jibberish and the case may be that all the parts banned are too good for everything, but it maybe something to consider for future ban potentials.
If you read the current banlist in the OP, it will say that E230 is already banned.
But you are absolutely correct, it would make the format unbalanced by giving Defense too much of an advantage.
LOL, we're talking about F230, not E230. XD
You guys don't understand what I'm saying. I wasn't continuing off your earlier discussion, but making my own tangent, I was using the E230 as an example since it's already on the ban list. To summarize what I was saying, I though it would be a good idea if, for example, the E230 was banned for Defense and Stamina, but allowed for attack, since, as far as I know and have seen, the E230 is not so good for attack. But this is just an example, of course, It can be applied for any other part too.
(Jan. 13, 2014 2:11 AM)BeyCenter Wrote: You guys don't understand what I'm saying. I wasn't continuing off your earlier discussion, but making my own tangent, I was using the E230 as an example since it's already on the ban list. To summarize what I was saying, I though it would be a good idea if, for example, the E230 was banned for Defense and Stamina, but allowed for attack, since, as far as I know and have seen, the E230 is not so good for attack. But this is just an example, of course, It can be applied for any other part too.
That would make things to complicated :\
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![[Image: rcFJUxo.png]](https://i.imgur.com/rcFJUxo.png)
(Jan. 13, 2014 2:11 AM)BeyCenter Wrote: You guys don't understand what I'm saying. I wasn't continuing off your earlier discussion, but making my own tangent, I was using the E230 as an example since it's already on the ban list. To summarize what I was saying, I though it would be a good idea if, for example, the E230 was banned for Defense and Stamina, but allowed for attack, since, as far as I know and have seen, the E230 is not so good for attack. But this is just an example, of course, It can be applied for any other part too.
I think that's just to stop the banlist from being too complicated. It would get confusing if they did that for every part, and on some combos the line between Defense and Stamina can get pretty thin.
Like if someone used Dark Knight Gryph E230LRF, it could be argued whether it is Attack, Anti-Attack, or RF-Based Defense (which is apparently really common in this format), and it would be easier to just ban E230 outright.
I agree, this is a good counter argument, but it may expand the metagame a little bit more. Of course, I may just be speaking non-sense