I know this is a bit of a mixed bag, but let me tell you what I truly dislike. I hate losing a match when a beyblade exits the play area, bounces off of the wall, and then returns clearly ready to continue fighting. Just like the show, if a beyblade isn't truly knocked out of the arena, it should be allowed to continue playing. Beys bounce off of walls constantly in the show, but this ruling seems to be completely against that. Judgment makes this situation feel even worse than it should, especially in deck format where it can score effortless 2 points for its initial hits. Matches ending in 2-4 seconds just because someone hit the wall and bounced back in feels wrong. The Japanese rules allow for re-entry, as they consider the openings penalty zones, not knock-out zones.

If I were to change any rule in beyblade, it would be this. The hype really gets killed sometimes.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

That was the rule for a while but it was shown to cause KO attackers to lose after a strong hit because the opponent bounced off the back wall of the pocket and back into the stadium.

if I am correct the rule is if a beyblade hits the pocket and bounces back in it is a KO unless there has been no contact yet.

The rule is in place to make battles fairer.

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Highly Observant Hasbro Blader.

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Considering the power of GT beys these days, these 2-4 second matches don't feel fair. They feel like you get cheated.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

I always assumed this rule was to buff attack against opposite spin opponents. I do find pocket wall bounces very hard to judge and there are lots of those these days. Personally, I feel like I need a camera on a judgement match to be safe, and I am not always able to have that. I am a little bit torn here. I don’t want to nerf attack but I do like how I wouldn’t have to worry which bey bounced off the pocket wall first? Or did a bey actually bounce off the pocket wall or just the side wall? Anyway, I think this is a good topic to discuss. One thing to note is that I know Japan and Taiwan allow beys to come back in from a pocket wall bounce and continue to battle. While this is in my opinion a nerf to attack, attack for them are still quite successful in tournaments.

I know this is a bit of a mixed bag, but let me tell you what I truly dislike. I hate losing a match when a beyblade exits the play area, bounces off of the wall, and then returns clearly ready to continue fighting. Just like the show, if a beyblade isn't truly knocked out of the arena, it should be allowed to continue playing. Beys bounce off of walls constantly in the show, but this ruling seems to be completely against that. Judgment makes this situation feel even worse than it should, especially in deck format where it can score effortless 2 points for its initial hits. Matches ending in 2-4 seconds just because someone hit the wall and bounced back in feels wrong. The Japanese rules allow for re-entry, as they consider the openings penalty zones, not knock-out zones.

If I were to change any rule in beyblade, it would be this. The hype really gets killed sometimes.

I see your point , but with how large the layers are now they can bouce back much easier. Also if someone depends on attack and that doesn't count, the match is almost hopless. Also there is no back wall in the anime to bouce off of. If it hits the side wall, it doesn't count but if it hits the back it does.

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Hey all, professional noob blader here. I enjoyed participating in the fighting of exploding spinning tops while pretending I know how inertia works. I will generally partake in gatherings of people with a similar interest of these rotating objects around the Greater Toronto Area (GTA). My favourite combos are essentially anything purple, gold, and sometimes a nice purl white. I don’t know how to make a cool banner so who those who actually know how this site works please feel free to message me about how I should know how to at this point lol.  

Attack types are viable for the first time in years thanks to KOs. Bursts are still less common, especially if you plan correctly. Don't take away many valid KOs.

The back wall exists to prevent injury and damage, but without it, the bey would be very much out.

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I think I have mentioned in my post that in regions where a wall bounce is not considered out, attack is doing just fine.  Attack combos are highly common in tournament winning decks.  Keep in mind these regions allow Spriggan direction change even.

There are videos of this type of thing being possibly incorrectly called at WBO events.  I have questioned my own calls and other judge’s callIs on wall bounces. I don’t want attack nerfed. I do want matches to be as properly judged as possible.  The rules should allow the best game to be played, but being officiated properly is part of that.  The human eye is not so good at tracking 2 high speed objects going opposite directions.  

Maybe a compromise?  Like a 1 point wall bounce KO in the finals?  But this still doesn’t solve the problem.  It is sometime just hard to tell if one, both, or none of the beyblades wall bounced.  I don’t know what is the best thing to do, but this proposal has merit in my opinion.

I have more thoughts on this coming up in a report on the WBBA 3on3 Battle Format used in NO SLEEP TILL BEYBLADE last month, but in general I do agree with the idea of removing this particular rule. With my experience in the aforementioned event, I can also confirm that the removal of this rule doesn't negatively impact attack types as much as you might think it would given the state they are in right now with Layers like Judgment and Zwei available.

Everyone needs to understand that this rule was introduced back when attack was quite bad ... attack types required pretty absolute precision and some luck to work in general. But things have changed significantly since then. While it's true that Beyblades knocked out and then bouncing back in a Burst BeyStadium Standard Type would normally have been knocked out in a BB-10 from the MFB era since there was no cover ... the fact of the matter is that the cover exists and is an unavoidable gameplay element for this series.

Our ruling was a work around for this to buff attack types in their time of desperate need, but it's also difficult to judge sometimes as Shindog has mentioned. As we endeavor to make the game easier to understand for players and to evaluate for judges, I think we need to consider removing rules that seem cool competitively speaking, but too complicated in the end to be worth keeping (especially now with the power of attack types having increased exponentially).

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So that’s a yes ???? From kei

Any update regarding the potential removal of this rule? I would love for beyblades to start finishing matches with actual outs, not just back wall technical wins. I simply don't want this to be forgotten, so I'm bumping it.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

We haven't forgotten. After a couple of "did this or didn't this hit the back wall" uncertainties at Beyblade West, I am very interested in removing the back wall KO rule. It has nothing to do with how the anime does it, which is terrible logic for anything, and more with taking uncertainty out of matches.

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I'm glad you've come around, but still surprised how long it took. I started playing beyblade after Judgment was already in the game and the rule felt poorly constructed from day 1 with the way that layer smacks beys away.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

Well, I changed my mind based on judging convenience and sustainability rather than any of the points for it you raised. None of your arguments for it are convincing.

I get that you're only focused in the here and now and refuse to understand the historical reasons for this rule, but keep in mind the rule might need to be reimplemented later on if defense and stam layers completely overpower and overwhelm ko attack again.

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Not even that in Japan, the birthplace of the game, the rules don't line up with this one?

It feels like you're having a bad day. As long as it's still in consideration, that's good enough for me.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

IIRC, this rule was put in place when enormous Layers like mG started to come out, since their size would prevent them from properly falling out of the pockets. But now that every Layer that's been coming out for the past year or so is just as wide, if not wider than mG, wouldn't that be a compelling reason to keep the rule? It is a pain to judge around, but I don't think TT is going to scale back the majority of their new Layers anytime soon, so this may be the best way to compensate for their design oversights.

I just brought this up in our discord chat today. It really feels like time to change this rule. Even if just on a trial basis first. I would be interested to see the poll results if this was voted on by the community. Not that I would expect the poll to be the deciding factor but I’d be curious to see where everyone stands on this topic.

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WBO Staff Member, South Florida Organizer & member of Team Plus Ultra

But then Bearing would be way too powerful.

But then Bearing would be way too powerful.

I'm pretty sure a Bearing combo would just Burst in the pocket.

I think I lean in the Favor Of @Mr. Palazzo’s idea, just because Judgment and Zwei battles take very little time, as the Judgment/Zwei Combo will most likely repel the opponent into the pocket very early in the battle, and the KOed Beyblade will most likely return ready for battle again. Judgment and Zwei hit so hard now that almost any KO will end in the opponent coming back into the arena after bouncing off the wall at high speeds, which feels like you have kind of been cheated. I really prefer not to win this way if I’m using Judgment or Zwei, it feels somewhat unfair.

I think I lean in the Favor Of @Mr. Palazzo’s idea, just because Judgment and Zwei battles take very little time, as the Judgment/Zwei Combo will most likely repel the opponent into the pocket very early in the battle, and the KOed Beyblade will most likely return ready for battle again. Judgment and Zwei hit so hard now that almost any KO will end in the opponent coming back into the arena after bouncing off the wall at high speeds, which feels like you have kind of been cheated. I really prefer not to win this way if I’m using Judgment or Zwei, it feels somewhat unfair.

Not only does it seem a bit unfair, but it's not very satisfying and is very confusing for newer/younger players to understand.

While it does make matches more difficult to judge, I'm not sure whether the wall bounce rule needs to go away. I think it was actually created because of Layers like Judgement and Zwei, since they hit so hard that opponents were more likely to bounce back in than stay out, whereas in any other stadium they just would have been extra-KOed, rather than somehow still considered in play. From the opposite side of the coin, it also feels unfair if you effectively KO a lightweight opponent like Balkesh 2 or 3 times with a Judgement combo but it keeps bouncing back in to eventually win a matchup that it really shouldn't have. The only argument that really makes me consider removing the rule is Kei's comment that doing so "doesn't negatively impact attack types as much as you might think" which I'm a bit skeptcial of, so I'd prefer to see some tests demonstrating this to be sure.

To be honest, I'd much rather watch a replay of a battle to see which Beyblade bounced off the back wall first than watch a replay to see who outspun whom.

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I'll have to agree with OP.
WBO ruleset should more closely resemble WBBA rules.

The only way my group of friends plays this game is with this rule eliminated. Having the wall end the game feels as if you're being denied the entirety of a match. I understand that in stadiums of the past that the bey would be eliminated, but the barrier around the stadium is without a doubt a part of the stadium, and because of that it is clearly a part of the game area, clearly accepted as such by Takara.

In Japan attack types are doing fine. Even larger beys find themselves smacked permanently into pockets. It doesn't take much to score a knockout these days considering the beys available. Like I said, it's the only way I really play, so from a testing perspective it's all I watch. Attack types feel generally excellent currently. Personally, when a bey is smacked out three or four times and then re-enters and still wins, I find that thrilling. It puts on an exhibition instead of just calling it a technical loss with the first blow backward into the arena wall. I'm a fan of watching beys get blasted around. It makes for engaging and exciting conclusions. I'm not sucked out of the moment while two beys are still spinning aggressively and the match is called.

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I'm not a miracle, I'm a heaven-sent instrument.

While it does make matches more difficult to judge, I'm not sure whether the wall bounce rule needs to go away. I think it was actually created because of Layers like Judgement and Zwei, since they hit so hard that opponents were more likely to bounce back in than stay out, whereas in any other stadium they just would have been extra-KOed, rather than somehow still considered in play. From the opposite side of the coin, it also feels unfair if you effectively KO a lightweight opponent like Balkesh 2 or 3 times with a Judgement combo but it keeps bouncing back in to eventually win a matchup that it really shouldn't have. The only argument that really makes me consider removing the rule is Kei's comment that doing so "doesn't negatively impact attack types as much as you might think" which I'm a bit skeptcial of, so I'd prefer to see some tests demonstrating this to be sure.

To be honest, I'd much rather watch a replay of a battle to see which Beyblade bounced off the back wall first than watch a replay to see who outspun whom.

So I decided to do a little testing to see how often the “bounce-back” comes into play and how it effects the outcome of the battle.

“Bounce-back”: bey hits the back wall of stadium pocket and re-enters the ring continuing to battle. 

I did three rounds of testing. Testing was done in a TT standard stadium. Each round of testing consisted of 20 matches. 

Round 1:
JJ.0B.X’ vs aB.0B.At

In 20 rounds the “bounce-back” occurred 2x (10%). 


1) JJ exited ring, bounced off back wall of the pocket then re-entered ring knocking B3 out. 
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of B3

2) JJ exists ring, bounces back in but loses on survivor finish
Result: Balkesh earns 1 point instead of 2.

Attack bey is helped by “bounce-back” not hurt by it in this round. 

Round 2:
JJ.0B.X’ vs HP.10P.Lw Sen

In 20 rounds the “bounce-back” occurred 4x (20%)

1) JJ exits ring, re-enters and KOs HP
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of HP

2) JJ exits ring, re-enters but loses on survivor finish 
Result: HP earns 1 point instead of 2

3) JJ exits ring, re-enters and wins by burst finish 
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of HP

4) JJ exits ring, re-enters and wins by burst finish 
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of HP

Attack bey once again benefited from continued play after “bounce-back”

Round 3:
JJ.0B.X’ vs LS.Bl.Dm’

In 20 rounds “bounce-back” occurred 1x (5%)

1) JJ exits stadium, re-enters but loses on survivor finish 
Result: LS earns 1 point instead of 2

Again, attack bey is aided by “bounce-back”

So after 60 rounds the “bounce-back” only occurred 7x in my test (12% of the time). In all instances the attack bey benefited from the continued play.

From what I could see in my own tests, the assertion that “it doesn’t negatively effect attack beys as much as you might think” seems to hold true.

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WBO Staff Member, South Florida Organizer & member of Team Plus Ultra

While it does make matches more difficult to judge, I'm not sure whether the wall bounce rule needs to go away. I think it was actually created because of Layers like Judgement and Zwei, since they hit so hard that opponents were more likely to bounce back in than stay out, whereas in any other stadium they just would have been extra-KOed, rather than somehow still considered in play. From the opposite side of the coin, it also feels unfair if you effectively KO a lightweight opponent like Balkesh 2 or 3 times with a Judgement combo but it keeps bouncing back in to eventually win a matchup that it really shouldn't have. The only argument that really makes me consider removing the rule is Kei's comment that doing so "doesn't negatively impact attack types as much as you might think" which I'm a bit skeptcial of, so I'd prefer to see some tests demonstrating this to be sure.

To be honest, I'd much rather watch a replay of a battle to see which Beyblade bounced off the back wall first than watch a replay to see who outspun whom.

So I decided to do a little testing to see how often the “bounce-back” comes into play and how it effects the outcome of the battle.

“Bounce-back”: bey hits the back wall of stadium pocket and re-enters the ring continuing to battle. 

Spoiler (Click to View)

I did three rounds of testing. Testing was done in a TT standard stadium. Each round of testing consisted of 20 matches. 

Round 1:
JJ.0B.X’ vs aB.0B.At

In 20 rounds the “bounce-back” occurred 2x (10%). 


1) JJ exited ring, bounced off back wall of the pocket then re-entered ring knocking B3 out. 
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of B3

2) JJ exists ring, bounces back in but loses on survivor finish
Result: Balkesh earns 1 point instead of 2.

Attack bey is helped by “bounce-back” not hurt by it in this round. 

Round 2:
JJ.0B.X’ vs HP.10P.Lw Sen

In 20 rounds the “bounce-back” occurred 4x (20%)

1) JJ exits ring, re-enters and KOs HP
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of HP

2) JJ exits ring, re-enters but loses on survivor finish 
Result: HP earns 1 point instead of 2

3) JJ exits ring, re-enters and wins by burst finish 
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of HP

4) JJ exits ring, re-enters and wins by burst finish 
Result: JJ earns 2 points instead of HP

Attack bey once again benefited from continued play after “bounce-back”

Round 3:
JJ.0B.X’ vs LS.Bl.Dm’

In 20 rounds “bounce-back” occurred 1x (5%)

1) JJ exits stadium, re-enters but loses on survivor finish 
Result: LS earns 1 point instead of 2

Again, attack bey is aided by “bounce-back”

So after 60 rounds the “bounce-back” only occurred 7x in my test (12% of the time). In all instances the attack bey benefited from the continued play.

From what I could see in my own tests, the assertion that “it doesn’t negatively effect attack beys as much as you might think” seems to hold true.

Could you test against competitive combos to give a better example? To be able to gain a better understanding of how it affects the meta.
Testing a generally good attack combo against stock is not the best test for a rule change.
The best test would be in a tournament. As a trial run.

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Highly Observant Hasbro Blader.

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