Poll: Is Dragoon broken ?

Yes.
19.05%
16
No.
30.95%
26
Depends.
34.52%
29
Not sure.
15.48%
13
Total: 100% 84 vote(s)

Competitive ways to counter Dragooon.

(Nov. 05, 2012  1:22 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: MAJOR NOTE

We need to find a counter to ________ Dragooon combos. It is just dominating the metagame. In order to do well in Zero-G, you need to have Dragooon, another Zero-G Beyblade, BGrin and your set.

Right spin Stamina won't work, Right Spin Sway Attack won't work, etc.
As of right now we need a left spin smasher, to go against Dragooon.

Our Options (IMHO)
  1. Left Spin VariAres R145 RF/R2F
  2. Any Attack oriented Zero G wheel, below Dragooon E230 CF/GCF etc.

I hope this was helpful.

So, I create this thread for anyone to post their suggestions on combo's. Remember, the combo you are proposing must be competitive, and not just to counter Dragooon (i.e Death B: D etc..).
I am going to go ahead and post test results for Reviser Dragooon against standard sway attack and stamina combos.

Reviser Dragooon B: D vs Ifraid Ifraid 230CF
Reviser:19 wins (4 KO , 1 ZA , 15 KO)
Ifraid : 1 win (KO)
Reviser win :95 %

Reviser Dragooon B: D vs Phantom Cancer AD145B
Reviser : 10 wins (All OS)
Reviser win: 100%
This was so one sided, so I did only 10 rounds.

SO GET TESTING EVERYONE!!!
BTW Variares doesn't work so well, even in left spin.

Possible counters: Gargoyle Dragooon SA165GCF
Duo W145EWD etc (Other Variants)

Genbull Dragooon LW160TB
The Best way to counter ____ Dragooon B:D would probably end up using an "Anti" left-spin chromium wheel. I would personally say that MSF-F Killerken Dragooon SA165 CF/GCF can counter ____ Dragooon B:D to an extent.
That may be so but can it beat other types consistently?
If it doesn't KO, it spin-equalizes its opponent. Think of this combo as an offensive version of Ingulit's Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD in a Zero-G Stadium.

Also, as quoted by Kei: "Sway Attack works as long as you are spinning the same direction as your opponent. So, a Dragooon-based Attacker can do well against Dragooon B:D. Personally, I've been using MSF-L Gargole Dragooon SA165 (Attack Mode) GCF lately (you can find it on the Winning Combinations list). Of course, I/we still need to do more testing, though."

Edit: Where's LRF on VariAres. Also, one can try to use CH120/CH145.
Yes that might be the case but one way or another you are still using Dragoon the point of this thread is to find competitive counter to Dragoon B: D without using Dragoon. I guess that needs
to be specified in the OP though.
Check my thread for Death Gasher CH120 WD. It counters Dragooon BGrin.
I beat a Dragooon Dragooon BGrin Custom using MF-L Duo Bull W145EWD if that helps it was 3-2 because my EWD was getting close to wornity I guess (if thats a word) and so the tips was low so it swayed it self twice. But if this beats it, mire Stamina customs that eventually people will just use EWD with this in Zero-G I'm guessing BGrin is just a phase to be honest, then BWD then with Spin Stealers we will be seeing EWD come back.
(Nov. 07, 2012  1:46 PM)ShinobuXD Wrote: Check my thread for Death Gasher CH120 WD. It counters Dragooon BGrin.

And gets absolutely demolished by others....... The combo is supposed to be able to take on other combos with a reasonable winning percentage.
In My Opinion _____ Dragooon B : D Could Lose against MF-H Phantom ______ B : D
If You Think this Combo Isn't good could you please Post Your Test Here?
Phantom would just get blown out by the recoil produced.
(Nov. 07, 2012  4:14 PM)Kujikato Wrote: Phantom would just get blown out by the recoil produced.

How?
No sway and it has B : D on it
Ah, thank you.

So Vari didn't work? How Vari (c what i did der) surprising.

I personally think that a MF combo could beat it. Probably like MSF Ifraid Dragooon 160 MF.
(Nov. 07, 2012  12:48 PM)One Direction Wrote: Yes that might be the case but one way or another you are still using Dragoon the point of this thread is to find competitive counter to Dragoon B: D without using Dragoon. I guess that needs
to be specified in the OP though.

Why does it matter? It's fine to explore non-Dragooon based options, but I don't see why we should neglect the options that do include it.
Yeah, you must be in the same spin as your opponent to do well. Dragooon is (one) of our only options right now.
Hmm, same spin Sway Attackers? I have no idea what some of those are, but they probably would use CF or GCF or something. And Crab, you're right, I've had heard Death is a good counter for these types of combos.
I don't know if you understood it but I am pretty sure Ginga meant same Spin Direction and its just easier to sway if you don't have to fight a opposite force that completly counters your force of swaying, and usually does not produce enough non-hindered movement to create a Sucessful Sway to get a SKO. It has been known about I thought...
@Kei: We know its valid, but the purpose of the thread was not to use Dragoon to come up with the combo, other wise there would be many combos that can beat it. The reason I create this thread was to issue out a challenge to the bladers out there to come up with combos that don't utilize Dragoon, because, when I look at all the winning Zero-G combos, all I see is Dragoon. So I kinda hoped that all of us could so called break the "Dragoon Barrier" and so there would be more Diversity in the winning combinations.

@*AJ*: Phantom has much more recoil so it would be knocked out due to its recoil and low grip.

@*Ginga*: Nice corny joke there.
@*Ginga*: Lol. But the joke was
When I tried a few days back, Hell Kerbecs BD145 WD was able to OS Revizer Dragooon B: D when WD got aggro and the swaying stadium destabilized Revizer Dragooon. However, I haven't been able to reproduce those results now. See if it works for anyone else.
Hell? Maybe maximum did really mean something.

So right now, Dragooon is a left spin stamina defense Balsalt?
Hm... Does GP in left with GB 145 and FB work? Stamina and attack is pretty present.
I'm actually going to agree with Ultimu and say we should fight fire with fire with this issue (what I'm trying to say is fight it with another Dragoon combo). How goes Twin Ball against Dragoon B: D by the way?

What I'd like to see tested sometime against Dragoon B: D: Orojya/Genbull? Dragoon LW160[??]

Why?
Dragoon: Fight fire with fire.

Orojya: One of the most balanced non-offensive Chrome Wheels at the moment.
Genbull: Not sure if this has recoil or not, but it looks pretty balanced.

LW160: Same effect as W145, but in left spin. Shorter than B: D (?) too.

[??]: I have no darn idea what works well in Zero-G stadia other than that SD/D/WD/W2D/EWD suck in them. I'm thinking BWD, AS, or TB?

If we want to fight fire with fire (left spin), we should try Meteo L-Drago (Absorb Ver. of course), Gravity Perseus (Stamina Ver.), L-Drago Destroy, and L-Drago Guardian as possible Dragoon killers. I hardly follow the meta on this type of stuff, though, so I have no idea if they have been tested yet.
Being a L-Drago Lover I certainly tried to counter this with L-Drago Destroy/Guardian and did not get good results with MF-H L-Drago Guardian GB145CF its the Heaviest L-Drago Set Up I can produce that works in Zero-G and when it made contact it flew off it could sway sometimes but it was just too light compared to something beating it out by 10 Grams at least.


I think Dragooon is a reliable counter. But I don't like it personally, its the only thing that will work in this situation in my opinion but defeats itself at the same time, like saying BEAT Basalt BD145CS! Basalt AD145CS Beats it! Or something like that, it would be awesome to find a counter wasn't itself, Dragooon is a counter but I would like to find more. So Dragooon stops and doesn't remain one of the only things used in Zero-G Tournaments
Another weird idea from me...
A Beyblade that Spin Steals Spin Stealers?
Like, maybe a Gravity Perseus combo that has enough end of the battle spin to beat Bearing Drive.
I thought we already tried that? Gravity is just too light and Vari doesn't work for it since it sucks at Spin Stealing, and any right spin wheel with a EWD which can win but not be a safe viable option, and then there goes the issue if we use EWD to counter Dragooon, Dragooon will start it up too of course it can be swayed then but still.


Possible Counters So Far:
Attack: Gargoyle Dragooon SA165GCF ( I know I forgot the face)
Etc... (Other Variants)
Defense: (Shouldn't this lose anyways? Stamina>Defense>)
Stamina: Duo W145EWD etc (Other Variants)