Poll: Is Dragoon broken ?

Yes.
19.05%
16
No.
30.95%
26
Depends.
34.52%
29
Not sure.
15.48%
13
Total: 100% 84 vote(s)

Competitive ways to counter Dragooon.

A tornado staller is possible, but seriously needs testing.

Can anyone test a synchrome with a central weight distri, MSF-M or H, TH170 WF XF RF MF..

Kinda like MF-H Basalt TH170 WF...
The next best thing I have to a CH120 is 125...


And if you don't want us to use Dragooon, then what? LDD?
(Nov. 11, 2012  8:35 AM)Kujikato Wrote: A tornado staller is possible, but seriously needs testing.

Can anyone test a synchrome with a central weight distri, MSF-M or H, TH170 WF XF RF MF..

Kinda like MF-H Basalt TH170 WF...
I don't really know bananas on how a Chrome Wheel's weight is distributed, but seeing how Gargole has hollow spots on the farther out part of the Chrome Wheel, it could have centered weight distribution because the hollow spots are away from the center.

Again, though, I know next to nothing on weight distribution, anyway.

@BH145WD: Do you have D125? If so, use that instead of 125 just for the extra weight.

(Nov. 10, 2012  6:37 PM)Crab Commando Wrote:
BH145WD Wrote: GD launched first and alternated with MLD Left-String Launcher
Genbull Dragooon LW160TB vs Reviser Dragooon BD
GD wins: 16 wins (15 OS, 1 KO)
RD wins: 4 wins (4 OS)

Iunno, could be an old vs new problem since I put all the new and shiny parts on Genbull Dragooon. (Except LW160)

RK KO
GD SO
GD OS
Thank you so much for the test, BH145WD! Grin
If possible, could you do a test in which you swap the Dragooon Chromes (old/new) to see if it isn't a wear factor that made it do well with the tests?

Again, though, thank you. The combo seems to work decently.

@Ultimo: Death Gasher CH120WD: Completely irrational? What do you mean, it's an Anti-Spin-Steal combo.

What I mean is Death Gasher CH120 WD is only good for being an anti-spin-steal combo. Its good for nothing else.
(Nov. 11, 2012  7:15 PM)Ultimo Wrote: What I mean is Death Gasher CH120 WD is only good for being an anti-spin-steal combo. Its good for nothing else.
What? Good for nothing else? It's a slightly outclassed Stamina combo, too. (Which isn't entirely obsolete yet).


Edit:
(Nov. 10, 2012  4:56 PM)Ultimo Wrote: Similar to the MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170 WF combo, why doesn't one try

MF-H/MF-L/MF-M/MF Duo Cygnus TH170 WSF
Basalt had it's niche on TH170WF because it was heavy and the recoil it had could be taken advantage of. Duo is neither heavy nor does it have considerable recoil.
(Nov. 11, 2012  6:50 PM)Crab Commando Wrote: quote
How convenient, I do have one.


And I refuse to use MLD or LDD for the tests. Dragooon ONLY, and I'll have it up once I blow some leaves.

Death launched first, then GD and alternated (MLD Beylauncher, Beylauncher L/R)
Death Cancer D125WD (Defense)vs. Genbull Dragooon LW160TB
Death wins: 12 wins (12 OS)
GD wins: 8 wins (4 KO, 1 SO, 3 OS)

GD win rate: 40%
Eh... not bad. I kind of underestimated TB here.
For GD to win it really depended on either Dragooon or LW160TB to win. Since Dragooon couldn't hit Death much, it had to rely on LW160TB for wins. Death would occassionally force TB to scrape and if done right, GD would scrape and while recovering, LW160's wings would attack Death and in turn make it scrape and sleep out or get KO'd.
(Nov. 11, 2012  8:40 PM)BH145WD Wrote:
(Nov. 11, 2012  6:50 PM)Crab Commando Wrote: quote
Death Cancer D125WD (Defense)vs. Genbull Dragooon LW160TB
Death wins: 12 wins (12 OS)
GD wins: 8 wins (4 KO, 1 SO, 3 OS)

GD win rate: 40%

Eh... not bad. I kind of underestimated TB here.
For GD to win it really depended on either Dragooon or LW160TB to win. Since Dragooon couldn't hit Death much, it had to rely on LW160TB for wins. Death would occassionally force TB to scrape and if done right, GD would scrape and while recovering, LW160's wings would attack Death and in turn make it scrape and sleep out or get KO'd.
As you said, not too bad. I had a feeling Death Cancer would do fairly well against it, considering how well Death works against Spin-Stealers.

That thing with the wings of LW160 attacking Death sounds quite neat, actually.

Nice tests, BH145WD! Looks like LW160TB may be a better set up than BGrin on Dragooon!
(Nov. 12, 2012  12:43 AM)ShinobuXD Wrote: Nice tests, BH145WD! Looks like LW160TB may be a better set up than BGrin on Dragooon!

Still doubtful though. For the LW160 attack to be successful it had to react really quickly. If the recovery took an extra second or two longer it wouldn't work, or if Death simply fed GD small dosages of attack and then TB would scrape and sleep out.

But everything has a downside so eh... at least it did better than BD in my general opinion, although BD drags out the battle.

EDIT:
And also, we need another lower chrome wheel since Death attacked Genbull most of the time, and it barely did anything
(Nov. 12, 2012  12:59 AM)BH145WD Wrote: EDIT:
And also, we need another lower chrome wheel since Death attacked Genbull most of the time, and it barely did anything

Try Killerken for its grinding, or Gargole for its synergy with Dragooon.
has anyone tried duo w145 ewd it does great for me against dragoon
I was working to find a counter to Dragooon BGrin today and came upon Duo Gasher SA165 EWD. It consistently outspins all BGrin customs. I'll have a thread and video up this week.
I thought EWD was already known as a counter? I don't know about anyone else but I would much rather see a counter to a Dragoon Spin Stealer and excluding Dragooon Dragooon BGrin the reason I wish to make this point is that the thread is aimed at Dragooon BGrin but it does say Dragooon as all Dragooon, if you add EWD to your custom your opponent can do the same, I would rather a Wheel solution instead of a tip solution since Dragooon Has to be Dragooon, while anything else Dragooon Does can be interchanged.

I want to try death again but My Launcher smashed ): I could try a LL2 though if anyone thinks thats good? I am gonna to at least test wether its official or not and post my findings.
Yes, your opponent could use EWD, but they wouldn't know what you were going to use so they might choose EWD instead. The problem with Dragooon isn't neccecarily that it has the best stamina, the problem is that it has the best stamina and can't be swayed out by right spin. That is why we need a right spin custom that beats all stamina and defense types because that will open up the whole Zero-G meta if left spin isn't the king of stamina. If Dragooon is always the top stamina type Zero-G will never be anything more than a left spin meta with a few Flash's thrown in.
I think I see your point as in beating BGrin is beating the safe option I thought about this, and how it is much easier to defeat EWD, but it is not that easy to beat EWD if its weak launched and other things, I guess I was just trying to beat anti-spinstealer completly there, But I think Dragooon Dragooon EWD will become an issue however it will not be as big as a problem as Dragooon BGrin was.

BGrin couldn't be knocked out but now it can be OS, while EWD can be knocked out much easier than BGrin I don't know how it will still lose easy with weak launching available, of curse there is trying to skip the stadium immediatly but there is more to it I think with the whole weak launching variable, we definitly made progress though and I lost my point while typing this XD.
(Dec. 02, 2012  9:55 PM)ShinobuXD Wrote: The problem with Dragooon isn't neccecarily that it has the best stamina, the problem is that it has the best stamina and can't be swayed out by right spin.

[...]

If Dragooon is always the top stamina type Zero-G will never be anything more than a left spin meta with a few Flash's thrown in.

You do remember such thing as Left-Spin Zero-G Attack, correct? And the last I heard, Duo B:D and Death B:D consistently defeat Dragooon Synchromes on B:D with relative ease.


(Dec. 02, 2012  9:55 PM)ShinobuXD Wrote: That is why we need a right spin custom that beats all stamina and defense types because that will open up the whole Zero-G meta if left spin isn't the king of stamina.

The heck it won't! If you find that you can't beat Left-Spin Stamina with Right-Spin Zero-G Attack, use Left-Spin Zero-G Attack. Right-Spin Stamina will have the same effect on Left-Spin Zero-G Attack as Left-Spin Stamina on Right-Spin Zero-G Attack.


Dragooon is not that overpowered... Just over-exaggerated.
Wait a minute... I actually heard someone say something about an F230CF combination going with some Synchrome (I think it was wpardin). Near the end of the battle, CF would actually help keep the Beyblade upright, while F230 kept the top of the Beyblade spinning, even when the bottom of the Beyblade stopped. Kinda like Bearing Drive. Maybe this could work to counter Dragooon.
Maybe, but B:D probably does it better.
Only tests will tell...
(Dec. 03, 2012  11:55 PM)BladerPegasis Wrote: Wait a minute... I actually heard someone say something about an F230CF combination going with some Synchrome (I think it was wpardin). Near the end of the battle, CF would actually help keep the Beyblade upright, while F230 kept the top of the Beyblade spinning, even when the bottom of the Beyblade stopped. Kinda like Bearing Drive. Maybe this could work to counter Dragooon.

I suggested that first, but F230 is too tall for low-height combos.
I was actually trying SA165 CF a lot Sunday on Phantom/Duo. It is pretty good and can OS almost everything but it is kind of easy to self KO with.
It was me who suggested that combo but I used Duo & Phantom. I have posted the test result for BB-10 & actually I have done the test for Zero G stadium but I forgot to post them here.

So, here are the test results:

Equipment:
Zero G Attack Stadium
Launcher LR with 3 segment launcher grip

MF-L Phantom Cancer F230CF vs MSF-M Killerken Dragooon BGrin.
PC 16 (all OS) vs KD 4 (all OS).
PC straight shot 80% power, KD straight shot full power. Alternate shot.
KD only wins by 1 - 2 rotations & PC usually by 5 rotations or more. PC sometimes "lock" KD between the metal wheel & CF hence KD will lose a lot of spin.

MF-M Duo Cygnus F230CF vs MSF-M Killerken Dragooon BGrin.
DC 17 (all OS) vs KD 3 (all OS).
DC straight shot 80% power, KD straight shot full power. Alternate shot.
KD will try to spin steal & DC will grind. But overall Duo is better because it always win by a lot of rotations whereas Dragooon wins only by a few rotations.

* DO NOT launch Phantom or Duo too hard or you might self KO so stop thinking of sway KO Dragooon because it is impossible to do using these combos. They are just too light for that use.
Wow! Those results are great!

How did you stall perfectly though? In my experience with CF it self KO's a lot or doesn't stall perfectly. Maybe I'm launching too hard.
Just launch a little to the side of the stadium. Never launch too hard & make the stadium sway too much because you might get a self KO. You just need to practice a little bit, that's all.
Nice job wpardin! I wish I had a legal Stadium so I could think of things like that, hah!
@wpardin
Nice tests. I like those combos. Do you have a GCF to test?