(Feb. 24, 2022 2:10 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote:Oh ok. (How does mirage have too much stamina?)(Feb. 24, 2022 2:03 AM)p0l1w4g06 Wrote: Is mirage ok? It’s rather thin, so it’s not that overpowered for attack like Zwei, and becuz it’s so thin it can be countered by Zwei/Judgement.Mirage is very thin and pretty horrible at defense. But I fear it’s rubber and shape may have too much stamina in combination with equalizing for GT to deal with
Burst GT Format (BGT) Experimental Period Announcement and Discussion
(Feb. 24, 2022 2:03 AM)p0l1w4g06 Wrote: Is mirage ok? It’s rather thin, so it’s not that overpowered for attack like Zwei, and becuz it’s so thin it can be countered by Zwei/Judgement.
Let's not look at adding more superking parts to the format when we're busy enough trying to figure out how problematic the ones we already have are, hey?
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
(Feb. 20, 2022 7:19 AM)TheRogueBlader Wrote: Before anything this is quite,literally THE EXPERIMENTAL STAGE. Experiment with things. See if they’re a problem or not.makes sense, but how are Artemis/Apollos overpowered? their shape isn't too good last time i checked
My 2 Cents on all this Stuff:
-First off just to get this outta the way, ban every chip sides Diabolos and Spriggan that has metal or rubber. Also ban metal chip cores.
-Curse: Great same spin. Good defense. Opposite spin I’m not too sure, Some say it could be a problem and others (like me) don’t. I’m unsure if it needs to be banned. This for me relies on its opposite spin. If it’s good in opposite spin, great in same spin, and is good for defense it’s a problem. But with the 5 bladed jagged design with the 5 somewhat flexible rings on each blade that literally decrease equalization I don’t see a problem. I simply see curse as a top tier defense/stamina hybrid that can still be beaten by raw attack types like judgement, still be outspun by the best stamina types, and is merely average in opposite spin.
-Abyss: I don’t have it so I can’t say as much. From what it seems it tanks judgement and can outspin tact. That’s a powerful combo, but how does it do against Zwei? How does it do against opposite spin? And could more than 1 or 2 people test this? Answer these questions and we’ll have a more firm grasp on this part
I do think overall GT is a very balanced system and especially with new parts. BUT, I do not want to make the same mistake as we have in limited for allowing layers like Geist Fafnir, Buster Xcaliber, and Artemis/apollos. We DO NOT want overpowered superking layers. Even if some see them as a problem or some don’t that doesn’t matter. We need to start at GT’s core. Ban all the superking bases and start there. As time goes on add things. Eventually this format can become ranked. Please, I literally beg, please don’t make the same mistake as limited. Ban what needs to be banned, but make sure it actually needs to be.
(Feb. 24, 2022 1:23 PM)th!nk Wrote:Ok(Feb. 24, 2022 2:03 AM)p0l1w4g06 Wrote: Is mirage ok? It’s rather thin, so it’s not that overpowered for attack like Zwei, and becuz it’s so thin it can be countered by Zwei/Judgement.
Let's not look at adding more superking parts to the format when we're busy enough trying to figure out how problematic the ones we already have are, hey?
when will this become a legal format?
For the event Shin LA Burst GT 2-26-22 I set out to do some tournament level testing of the Curse and Abyss Layers. The event was a 3on3 first stage event.
I played in my deck, “the experimental group,” in all 7 rounds:
Curse Solomon.Ig’ 4A
Abyss Helios2.Hy 1S
(I did switch the chassis around a bit as well as the MCC, but for the most part the MCC was on Curse to maximize its weight)
Plus a third bey. The third bey was usually Judgement Diabolos.0E.X’, Master Spriggan.Wh(Has).Xt+ for 2 rounds, and pP.Ω.Vl’ for a round.
The “control group,” if we can call it that, is Mitchjett’s deck:
(LC) perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Tact Spriggan.Hy Goku
His third bey was primarily Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’ and Master Diabolos.Wh(Has).Xt+ was only played a few rounds because it wasn’t very successful for him. Actually, it wasn’t successful for me either.
The idea was compare pP to Curse and Abyss to Tact.
Ultimately, Mitchjett won the tournament with a 8-1 record and I managed a 3-4 record.
My notes
-Abyss performed poorly for me. Bursting quite often even though I used the tight 1S and it felt tight. Abyss lost points for me every time except once if my memory serves. When compare to the same combo on Tact, Abyss did much worse, managing to lose in just about every way possible.
-Curse was okay, when compared to the same combo on pP, it didn’t really seem to have an advantage to pP in terms of stamina or defense this time around.
-why Hy and Ig’? Because the 2 drivers are kinda similarly, especially when turned off. They also both have very respectable same and opposite spin capabilities. It allows me to driver spam basically.
Of course, Mitchjett and I didn’t play against the same combos. I personally only view this as an exercise of Curse vs pP against random opponents, and Tact vs Abyss against random opponents. Obviously, the “study design” has flaws and I don’t think any definitive conclusion can be drawn from it. But I also haven’t seen testing like this too often, so it was interesting to try.
My personal take is that Curse and Abyss at least didn’t seem too strong under the given conditions. Actually, Abyss seemed bad. Curse could be pretty good, but I could not show that it is too good this time.
Consider this an attempt at a beyblade clinical trials.
I played in my deck, “the experimental group,” in all 7 rounds:
Curse Solomon.Ig’ 4A
Abyss Helios2.Hy 1S
(I did switch the chassis around a bit as well as the MCC, but for the most part the MCC was on Curse to maximize its weight)
Plus a third bey. The third bey was usually Judgement Diabolos.0E.X’, Master Spriggan.Wh(Has).Xt+ for 2 rounds, and pP.Ω.Vl’ for a round.
The “control group,” if we can call it that, is Mitchjett’s deck:
(LC) perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Tact Spriggan.Hy Goku
His third bey was primarily Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’ and Master Diabolos.Wh(Has).Xt+ was only played a few rounds because it wasn’t very successful for him. Actually, it wasn’t successful for me either.
The idea was compare pP to Curse and Abyss to Tact.
Ultimately, Mitchjett won the tournament with a 8-1 record and I managed a 3-4 record.
My notes
-Abyss performed poorly for me. Bursting quite often even though I used the tight 1S and it felt tight. Abyss lost points for me every time except once if my memory serves. When compare to the same combo on Tact, Abyss did much worse, managing to lose in just about every way possible.
-Curse was okay, when compared to the same combo on pP, it didn’t really seem to have an advantage to pP in terms of stamina or defense this time around.
-why Hy and Ig’? Because the 2 drivers are kinda similarly, especially when turned off. They also both have very respectable same and opposite spin capabilities. It allows me to driver spam basically.
Of course, Mitchjett and I didn’t play against the same combos. I personally only view this as an exercise of Curse vs pP against random opponents, and Tact vs Abyss against random opponents. Obviously, the “study design” has flaws and I don’t think any definitive conclusion can be drawn from it. But I also haven’t seen testing like this too often, so it was interesting to try.
My personal take is that Curse and Abyss at least didn’t seem too strong under the given conditions. Actually, Abyss seemed bad. Curse could be pretty good, but I could not show that it is too good this time.
Consider this an attempt at a beyblade clinical trials.
Ok. Hmm....I thought Dynamite would be safe if you just neuter it with 7, but then it won't help, right?
Personally Glide with Lucifer2 on a worn Xt+ was ok for me, and the only other legal SK ring I have, Curse, just wasn’t good enough for anything to make a combo for it. I do think though, that SK Rings have potential on standard height drivers. Hybrid and Ignition’ are a bit more specialized despite being very versatile. Maybe Curse would be good on zone’+z or something else that has high LAD and defensive capabilities? It’s hard to say, we really just need more tournaments and more time to try things out. But as I keep saying, we definitely overestimated these Superking Rings.
Honestly if they really do fail to do anything in tournaments - plural, would like to see some other scenes play - then I don't really mind, just don't want them to suddenly start showing up, curse really is very good IMO.
I also don’t want people to assume that I am saying SK layers being in BGT is totally fine, and my personal preference. It isn’t. I prefer my original proposal of keeping SK out for the sake of simplicity. I think this BGT can be a great intro format to Burst’s legacy formats, so I prefer as simple of a ban list as possible.
Ok, I wonder why nearly no one used them at that tournament?
It was very interesting seeing the parts that concerned people (including myself) fail to make an impact in LA. I do hope we get to see all of our more active areas get something together for the format soon, very curious to see what these areas which approach Standard differently make of the format's various facets.
E: Got my abyss today, I see why Hy/Ig' won't work with it... Not too worried about it in general so far tbh. It's like a left spin imperial that lacks the stamina that makes imperial worth using, but I'll keep playing around.
E: Got my abyss today, I see why Hy/Ig' won't work with it... Not too worried about it in general so far tbh. It's like a left spin imperial that lacks the stamina that makes imperial worth using, but I'll keep playing around.
(Feb. 28, 2022 4:38 AM)Shindog Wrote: For the event Shin LA Burst GT 2-26-22 I set out to do some tournament level testing of the Curse and Abyss Layers. The event was a 3on3 first stage event.
I played in my deck, “the experimental group,” in all 7 rounds:
Curse Solomon.Ig’ 4A
Abyss Helios2.Hy 1S
(I did switch the chassis around a bit as well as the MCC, but for the most part the MCC was on Curse to maximize its weight)
Plus a third bey. The third bey was usually Judgement Diabolos.0E.X’, Master Spriggan.Wh(Has).Xt+ for 2 rounds, and pP.Ω.Vl’ for a round.
The “control group,” if we can call it that, is Mitchjett’s deck:
(LC) perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Tact Spriggan.Hy Goku
His third bey was primarily Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’ and Master Diabolos.Wh(Has).Xt+ was only played a few rounds because it wasn’t very successful for him. Actually, it wasn’t successful for me either.
The idea was compare pP to Curse and Abyss to Tact.
Ultimately, Mitchjett won the tournament with a 8-1 record and I managed a 3-4 record.
My notes
-Abyss performed poorly for me. Bursting quite often even though I used the tight 1S and it felt tight. Abyss lost points for me every time except once if my memory serves. When compare to the same combo on Tact, Abyss did much worse, managing to lose in just about every way possible.
-Curse was okay, when compared to the same combo on pP, it didn’t really seem to have an advantage to pP in terms of stamina or defense this time around.
-why Hy and Ig’? Because the 2 drivers are kinda similarly, especially when turned off. They also both have very respectable same and opposite spin capabilities. It allows me to driver spam basically.
Of course, Mitchjett and I didn’t play against the same combos. I personally only view this as an exercise of Curse vs pP against random opponents, and Tact vs Abyss against random opponents. Obviously, the “study design” has flaws and I don’t think any definitive conclusion can be drawn from it. But I also haven’t seen testing like this too often, so it was interesting to try.
My personal take is that Curse and Abyss at least didn’t seem too strong under the given conditions. Actually, Abyss seemed bad. Curse could be pretty good, but I could not show that it is too good this time.
Consider this an attempt at a beyblade clinical trials.
For the even on 4-23-22 Do you miss GT?
I continued the above experiment above. This time I played
(LC)perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Master Spriggan.Hy 1S
Instead of
Curse Solomon.Ig’ 4A
Abyss Helios2.Hy 1S
(I would have asked Mitchjett to play these combos, but he did not attend today)
In every round of 3on3 first stage my 3rd combo was always Heaven Achilles.Wh(Has).Drift Goku, thus I made it clear what I was forcing just like the last event.
My record today was 6-1 in the first stage as oppose to 3-4
One of my wins in first stage was due to an opponent drop, so that really doesn’t count. My lost came at the hands of a judgment bursting my master.Hy combo. One of my wins was due to an opponent drop so my record is really 5-1.
My finals decks were:
(LC)perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Master Spriggan.Hy 1S
Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’
And
(LC)perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’
Zwei Diabolos.10R. X’
And I was able to win the matches I played with those decks. I did take out Master Hybrid for the grand finals because my opponent has had a good record against me and I feel like a good KO attacker would help me in the situation.
Over all record replacing Curse and Abyss in my hands with pP and Master got me a 8(7)-1 record as opposed to 3-4
Aye let’s get this legal for ranked and get the ball rolling already!!! Let’s “Make Lord Spriggan Great Again” 😎
Just kidding, but I am excited for this format. GT was legit!
Just kidding, but I am excited for this format. GT was legit!
(Apr. 24, 2022 1:56 AM)Shindog Wrote:(Feb. 28, 2022 4:38 AM)Shindog Wrote: For the event Shin LA Burst GT 2-26-22 I set out to do some tournament level testing of the Curse and Abyss Layers. The event was a 3on3 first stage event.
I played in my deck, “the experimental group,” in all 7 rounds:
Curse Solomon.Ig’ 4A
Abyss Helios2.Hy 1S
(I did switch the chassis around a bit as well as the MCC, but for the most part the MCC was on Curse to maximize its weight)
Plus a third bey. The third bey was usually Judgement Diabolos.0E.X’, Master Spriggan.Wh(Has).Xt+ for 2 rounds, and pP.Ω.Vl’ for a round.
The “control group,” if we can call it that, is Mitchjett’s deck:
(LC) perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Tact Spriggan.Hy Goku
His third bey was primarily Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’ and Master Diabolos.Wh(Has).Xt+ was only played a few rounds because it wasn’t very successful for him. Actually, it wasn’t successful for me either.
The idea was compare pP to Curse and Abyss to Tact.
Ultimately, Mitchjett won the tournament with a 8-1 record and I managed a 3-4 record.
My notes
-Abyss performed poorly for me. Bursting quite often even though I used the tight 1S and it felt tight. Abyss lost points for me every time except once if my memory serves. When compare to the same combo on Tact, Abyss did much worse, managing to lose in just about every way possible.
-Curse was okay, when compared to the same combo on pP, it didn’t really seem to have an advantage to pP in terms of stamina or defense this time around.
-why Hy and Ig’? Because the 2 drivers are kinda similarly, especially when turned off. They also both have very respectable same and opposite spin capabilities. It allows me to driver spam basically.
Of course, Mitchjett and I didn’t play against the same combos. I personally only view this as an exercise of Curse vs pP against random opponents, and Tact vs Abyss against random opponents. Obviously, the “study design” has flaws and I don’t think any definitive conclusion can be drawn from it. But I also haven’t seen testing like this too often, so it was interesting to try.
My personal take is that Curse and Abyss at least didn’t seem too strong under the given conditions. Actually, Abyss seemed bad. Curse could be pretty good, but I could not show that it is too good this time.
Consider this an attempt at a beyblade clinical trials.
For the even on 4-23-22 Do you miss GT?
I continued the above experiment above. This time I played
(LC)perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Master Spriggan.Hy 1S
Instead of
Curse Solomon.Ig’ 4A
Abyss Helios2.Hy 1S
(I would have asked Mitchjett to play these combos, but he did not attend today)
In every round of 3on3 first stage my 3rd combo was always Heaven Achilles.Wh(Has).Drift Goku, thus I made it clear what I was forcing just like the last event.
My record today was 6-1 in the first stage as oppose to 3-4
One of my wins in first stage was due to an opponent drop, so that really doesn’t count. My lost came at the hands of a judgment bursting my master.Hy combo. One of my wins was due to an opponent drop so my record is really 5-1.
My finals decks were:
(LC)perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Master Spriggan.Hy 1S
Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’
And
(LC)perfect Phoenix.Ig’
Imperial Dragon2.0E.Ds’
Zwei Diabolos.10R. X’
And I was able to win the matches I played with those decks. I did take out Master Hybrid for the grand finals because my opponent has had a good record against me and I feel like a good KO attacker would help me in the situation.
Over all record replacing Curse and Abyss in my hands with pP and Master got me a 8(7)-1 record as opposed to 3-4
Yeah having used abyss more, it has its issues in terms of just being heavy enough to ignore attackers on certain things but... I think Tact is basically better, I don't think abyss has much going for it based on the shape.
I'm still concerned about Curse but I'm not sure if it's quite enough of an issue to ban it. I don't want SK stuff around for other reasons but I'd also rather get this ranked sooner than later I think.
My results are what they are. I still personally prefer this format without the complication of adding layers beyond GT. I still think it can be the best introductory format to burst. I prefer a simple ban list here.
(Apr. 24, 2022 2:27 AM)Shindog Wrote: My results are what they are. I still personally prefer this format without the complication of adding layers beyond GT. I still think it can be the best introductory format to burst. I prefer a simple ban list here.
100% agree as someone looking to start a new scene and in need of a really big distinguishing factor from the pseudo-standard events others are running here outside the WBO. A relatively simple GT would be helpful to me personally and presumably those trying to host in new areas. Same with HasPro, I am being slightly selfish on both because they both work very well for me getting people engaged (if they can test in the stadium it makes the playing field more level).
Since we’ve had some more BGT tournaments and some time to digest the format I’m curious, is it any closer to to becoming ranked?
Also I’m curious, what are everyone’s thoughts on this format? Personally I think it could potentially the best beyblade format due to how balanced it is and how many options for combos there are.
Also I’m curious, what are everyone’s thoughts on this format? Personally I think it could potentially the best beyblade format due to how balanced it is and how many options for combos there are.
some combos i wanted to add into the mix (half of these have probably already been used a ton but whatever):
Master Longinus Paradox Xtend+
Perfect Phoenix(LC) Around Drift
Air Knight(LC) HsbrWheel Bearing'
Zwei Diabolos 1 Sting Jolt'
Lord Spriggan 10Expand Zone'+Z(Hasbro)
Perfect Genesis Almight+S(Free-Spin)+V
Archer Hercules(LC) HsbrTapered Hxt+'
Curse Solomon(MCC) Vanguard(Unbent) Mobius 1S
Super Lucifer 2 00Bump Destroy' 4A
Turbo Spryzen S3 HsbrNexus+S(Fixed) Atomic'
Bonus because funny: Judgement Ashira 12 Operate(Atk) Go
Master Longinus Paradox Xtend+
Perfect Phoenix(LC) Around Drift
Air Knight(LC) HsbrWheel Bearing'
Zwei Diabolos 1 Sting Jolt'
Lord Spriggan 10Expand Zone'+Z(Hasbro)
Perfect Genesis Almight+S(Free-Spin)+V
Archer Hercules(LC) HsbrTapered Hxt+'
Curse Solomon(MCC) Vanguard(Unbent) Mobius 1S
Super Lucifer 2 00Bump Destroy' 4A
Turbo Spryzen S3 HsbrNexus+S(Fixed) Atomic'
Bonus because funny: Judgement Ashira 12 Operate(Atk) Go
The rules state that Sparking layers from Takara-Tomy can't be used at all in this format. What about the versions that Hasbro releases? People can try to skirt around the rules for that to use their layers.
(Nov. 22, 2022 6:56 PM)Gypsy Blader Wrote: The rules state that Sparking layers from Takara-Tomy can't be used at all in this format. What about the versions that Hasbro releases? People can try to skirt around the rules for that to use their layers.
While this is necro'd, no they wouldn't because in the rulebook Superking Layers are specified by name. Hasbro's Pro Series releases are still illegal "Superking Layers" and Hasbro's "SpeedStorm Layers" are legal. Anyone who tries to say otherwise is trying to find a loophole that doesn't exist.
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