th!nk can i ask you to do a resume of the last 2 days?
Building a Plastic Top Tier List!
A summary. Basically, I've written a draft tiers list, it needs a bit of work (particularly the 1HKO section), and I've noted things that need discussion in the draft. It's This Post
One major point that McFrown has made is that Upper attack is possible even in the opposite spin direction to the opponent, and that Upper Dragoon works better in left spin. He's posted a video, and I've tried it myself and agree.
One major point that McFrown has made is that Upper attack is possible even in the opposite spin direction to the opponent, and that Upper Dragoon works better in left spin. He's posted a video, and I've tried it myself and agree.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
Very well 
I've read the discussion,and i agree with something and disagree with other.
I thought it wasn't a good summary because you and MC Frown talked on it and i thought it was been modified,that's because i asked you a summary!
By the way,good work guys!
Unfortunately i'll not be able to talk with you until Thursday (i've got an exam at university,so i'm studing), but i'll continue to read you guys.
So,please if you need some tests on your discussion,please write a little summary with all tests you required,Thrusday afternoon i'll be a free man and we will be able to talk with tests in our hands! :]
EDIT: I already had this notion, never disagreed with Frown about Upper Dragoon in Left. BTW, thanks for put it in evidence at my eyes
I've read the discussion,and i agree with something and disagree with other.
I thought it wasn't a good summary because you and MC Frown talked on it and i thought it was been modified,that's because i asked you a summary!
By the way,good work guys!
Unfortunately i'll not be able to talk with you until Thursday (i've got an exam at university,so i'm studing), but i'll continue to read you guys.
So,please if you need some tests on your discussion,please write a little summary with all tests you required,Thrusday afternoon i'll be a free man and we will be able to talk with tests in our hands! :]
EDIT: I already had this notion, never disagreed with Frown about Upper Dragoon in Left. BTW, thanks for put it in evidence at my eyes
Ahaha, excellent. Nah, we were just arguing small things, the summary itself is quite solid, and I've been updating it with changes. If there's a major update, I repost it then 
Good luck with the exam
Good luck with the exam
Yeah good luck dude.
Also one thing that could be interesting for battling Zombies:
Flying Defense (Hasbro)
WD (Probably 10 Balance/Magne WD)
Bearing Base (Preferably Wolborg 1 shaft)
I'd try it but I sold my Hasbro Flying Defense.
EDIT: Also yeah compacts can score some KO's albeit somewhat infrequently.
Also one thing that could be interesting for battling Zombies:
Flying Defense (Hasbro)
WD (Probably 10 Balance/Magne WD)
Bearing Base (Preferably Wolborg 1 shaft)
I'd try it but I sold my Hasbro Flying Defense.
EDIT: Also yeah compacts can score some KO's albeit somewhat infrequently.
I lack a bearing base but have the rest/have them coming. No substitute I take it?
Any base with high Stamina should do (perhaps not AS well). Auto Change Base, SG Metal Change, SG Bearing Ver., maybe even Semi Flat.
Probably SG Metal Change though.
But the combo I wrote out could be interesting. Probably sucks though.
Probably SG Metal Change though.
But the combo I wrote out could be interesting. Probably sucks though.
I'll give it a shot, doubt it'll be top tier, but yeah.
Me too, it seems interesting though (it'll suck).
Also one thing to realize is that at tournaments no one uses Top Tier combos. They mostly all use their own ridiculous combos just because they made it and like it or w/e. They're proud of their own customization and want it to do well.
Also one thing to realize is that at tournaments no one uses Top Tier combos. They mostly all use their own ridiculous combos just because they made it and like it or w/e. They're proud of their own customization and want it to do well.
...Hence the usability of compacts and 10bBistool, right?
I see. As I was going through everything I was a little confused about that.
So used to the dull formulae that comprise mfb competitive play, ahah.
I see. As I was going through everything I was a little confused about that.
So used to the dull formulae that comprise mfb competitive play, ahah.
Yeah that's a lot of the reason that 10B Bistool works.
Like if you watch Kid Dragoon's videos of the (London?) tournament, some guy is using
Double Wing
10 Balance or Heavy
(Probably Neo Right HMC/MG Core)
SG Semi Flat
Another guy has
War Lion
10 Wide
/Wolborg 2 SG and Base/
Another guy has
Uncustomized Driger V2
also Galaxy can you test 8 Spiker vs. Dragoon V's AR?
Like if you watch Kid Dragoon's videos of the (London?) tournament, some guy is using
Double Wing
10 Balance or Heavy
(Probably Neo Right HMC/MG Core)
SG Semi Flat
Another guy has
War Lion
10 Wide
/Wolborg 2 SG and Base/
Another guy has
Uncustomized Driger V2
also Galaxy can you test 8 Spiker vs. Dragoon V's AR?
(Jul. 26, 2011 9:37 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: Me too, it seems interesting though (it'll suck).
Also one thing to realize is that at tournaments no one uses Top Tier combos. They mostly all use their own ridiculous combos just because they made it and like it or w/e. They're proud of their own customization and want it to do well.
I'm not so sure this will hold true for very long, for this reason;
MFB has had it's meta-game spelled out ten-fold more than plastics (or even HMS), making top-tier combos much easier to figure out. OtC and Damashii never had a set top-tier list, or even an overview of the meta-game. Many different topics between the forums was what we considered our top tier list, not one "competitive combos" topic. You had to do a lot of research and personal testing to figure stuff out. Once we have a plastic top tier list, I'm sure tournaments will start to look more like that list.
The other reason I think we end up with a lot of seemingly random combos is because of the sheer variety in types as opposed to MFB or HMS. There are four or five different types of attack, multiple stamina and defense types, as well as real balance/combination types. This makes it much harder to go by a top tier list, since the game isn't standard Rock Paper Scissors.
-----
HMS's meta-game was a bit more well defined, as a good portion of the game's run was during Beywiki. The community made an effort to make combos easier to figure out, and start giving overviews of parts, beys, and how the types interact. Also, HMS had much less variety in combos and was much more Rock Paper Scissors than plastics.
My 2 cents.
(Jul. 26, 2011 9:43 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: Yeah that's a lot of the reason that 10B Bistool works.No problem,friend!
Like if you watch Kid Dragoon's videos of the (London?) tournament, some guy is using
Double Wing
10 Balance or Heavy
(Probably Neo Right HMC/MG Core)
SG Semi Flat
Another guy has
War Lion
10 Wide
/Wolborg 2 SG and Base/
Another guy has
Uncustomized Driger V2
also Galaxy can you test 8 Spiker vs. Dragoon V's AR?
I ask only one favour to you,guys!
I can try a lot of combos thanks the grat number of Beys i own,but please can you send me a PM writing exactly the versus you desire? In this way I'll not be forced to come here and read between one thousand of posts while i'm studing!
On thursday i'll give you the results of each versus required
I've got also the old green Attack Stadium for Plastics,tests will be easy and funny
(Jul. 26, 2011 9:58 PM)Galaxy Wrote: No problem,friend!
I ask only one favour to you,guys!
I can try a lot of combos thanks the grat number of Beys i own,but please can you send me a PM writing exactly the versus you desire? In this way I'll not be forced to come here and read between one thousand of posts while i'm studing!
On thursday i'll give you the results of each versus required
I've got also the old green Attack Stadium for Plastics,tests will be easy and funny
Tornado Attack? IIRC that was the most balanced stadium for plastics.
That's the one we're planning to use. Also, the MFB Attack Stadium probably will be used just for realism/convenience.
(Jul. 26, 2011 9:58 PM)Evan Wrote:(Jul. 26, 2011 9:58 PM)Galaxy Wrote: No problem,friend!
I ask only one favour to you,guys!
I can try a lot of combos thanks the grat number of Beys i own,but please can you send me a PM writing exactly the versus you desire? In this way I'll not be forced to come here and read between one thousand of posts while i'm studing!
On thursday i'll give you the results of each versus required
I've got also the old green Attack Stadium for Plastics,tests will be easy and funny
Tornado Attack? IIRC that was the most balanced stadium for plastics.
I took it for 5 EUR yesterday by a guy that did not know its true value xD
Wow, galaxy! Nice deal, man!
Anyway, fwiw, I don't have tornado attack. Just bb-10. Considering tornado attack is the fairest and bb-10 is quite fair and basically ubiquitous, there's no issue using both IMO, just note down what you use :p
Anyway, fwiw, I don't have tornado attack. Just bb-10. Considering tornado attack is the fairest and bb-10 is quite fair and basically ubiquitous, there's no issue using both IMO, just note down what you use :p
(Jul. 26, 2011 10:01 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: That's the one we're planning to use. Also, the MFB Attack Stadium probably will be used just for realism/convenience.
There are still a few SK Tornado Attack Sets (With Dranzer, Dragoon, and Diger G) on eBay, but Poseidon has said that his was damaged. I think this may have been from the shipping, not the seller themselves.
I've been using the MFB Attack during my plastic battles, and it seems mostly balanced but slanted slightly in favor of attack types.
It's really deep so it's bad for a lot of survival combos. They get hit on their AR's from above or below and get knocked off balance.
(Jul. 26, 2011 9:47 PM)Evan Wrote:(Jul. 26, 2011 9:37 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: Me too, it seems interesting though (it'll suck).
Also one thing to realize is that at tournaments no one uses Top Tier combos. They mostly all use their own ridiculous combos just because they made it and like it or w/e. They're proud of their own customization and want it to do well.
I'm not so sure this will hold true for very long, for this reason;
MFB has had it's meta-game spelled out ten-fold more than plastics (or even HMS), making top-tier combos much easier to figure out. OtC and Damashii never had a set top-tier list, or even an overview of the meta-game. Many different topics between the forums was what we considered our top tier list, not one "competitive combos" topic. You had to do a lot of research and personal testing to figure stuff out. Once we have a plastic top tier list, I'm sure tournaments will start to look more like that list.
The other reason I think we end up with a lot of seemingly random combos is because of the sheer variety in types as opposed to MFB or HMS. There are four or five different types of attack, multiple stamina and defense types, as well as real balance/combination types. This makes it much harder to go by a top tier list, since the game isn't standard Rock Paper Scissors.
-----
HMS's meta-game was a bit more well defined, as a good portion of the game's run was during Beywiki. The community made an effort to make combos easier to figure out, and start giving overviews of parts, beys, and how the types interact. Also, HMS had much less variety in combos and was much more Rock Paper Scissors than plastics.
My 2 cents.
Mc Frown's statement pretty much stems from our original discussions about the Plastic metagame, and I would tend to disagree with you. In essence, I said to him that there's this expectation that everyone uses top-tier customisations at tournaments, and this is absolutely not true. Some other members have touched on this before as it all ties in with what equates as a "safe" customisation to pick blind.
The Committee made a conscious decision to announce the Remembrance Day in advance to allow people to order parts and do enough research on the boards. All the knowledge required to succeed exists here already in various different areas, from old, archived threads to Beywiki, but there will always exist a plethora of strange, unique customisations at tournaments. I only have to point out the fact that a competitive customisations list already exists for MFB, but you will still see kids using Storm, Dark, and Rock Wheels; so I don't think that having a project like this one will shape the metagame that significantly.
Edit: I agree; having recently obtained a Tornado Attack the difference is pretty significant. MFB Attack has a steeper gradient. I would recommend you guys investing in a Tornado Attack from eBay if you can. The Beys/Accessories included generally make them good value for money.
There isn't much of a plastic metagame though. The aim of this at least for me is to get the masses a little more interested in plastics and be able to build proper combos. I'm thinking about investing in a Sonokong set with tornado attack in but I already have Dragoon G and triple tiger which are the only useful parts in the sets apart from launcher grips so i'm a bit reluctant.
Mmm, I've got most of what comes with them but I'll look into it.
(Jul. 26, 2011 10:47 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: There isn't much of a plastic metagame though. The aim of this at least for me is to get the masses a little more interested in plastics and be able to build proper combos. I'm thinking about investing in a Sonokong set with tornado attack in but I already have Dragoon G and triple tiger which are the only useful parts in the sets apart from launcher grips so i'm a bit reluctant.
Better act fast, I'm buying one Friday. :3 I only have Driger G (2 actually, and an extra Triple Tiger) from that set, so the Dragoon will be the only bey I'll use. I'll end up keeping the Dranzer and Driger NIP or maybe get some nail varnish to hold the stickers down and keep them for collection.
There is a plastic metagame, but it is far more diverse than any other beyblade metagame. It is not strictly Attack beats Endurance beats Defense beats Attack. It's more specific types of attack beat specific types of endurance and so on.
That being said, I can see where Heart is coming from but my response is; In the plastic days we had NO top tier list at all, which is where a lot of the random combos came from. I know we still see them in MFB, but it is much easier for a person to find out what a good combo is than it used to be.
It's worth buying, just sell the Beys if you don't want them.
Also, for Smash Attack, I almost forgot.
Spiral Wing. Spiral Wing/Wide Defense or 10 Wide/Neo Left (HMC).SG Metal Flat 2.
Also, for Smash Attack, I almost forgot.
Spiral Wing. Spiral Wing/Wide Defense or 10 Wide/Neo Left (HMC).SG Metal Flat 2.
You mean double wing? Way too much recoil IMO, and it's got quite poor range.