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+-- Forum: Beyblade Discussion (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Discussion)
+--- Forum: Beyblade Customizations (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Customizations)
+---- Forum: Plastic and HMS Customizations (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Plastic-and-HMS-Customizations)
+---- Thread: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! (/Thread-Building-a-Plastic-Top-Tier-List)
Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
Hi guys!
Due to the great enthusiasms of the Plastic&HMS remembrance, some members (me,th!nk,Ultrablader etc..) thought to give more important to this great generation of Beyblade that for a lot of time has been shadowed by MFB.
Now we want to try,test,discuss and write a final Top Tier List (i thought from Tier 1 to 3). In this Thread can take part all of you guys,but remember to take a scientific vision of the discussion,or if you want to talk generally about Plastics there's this Thread made by poseidon: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Plastic-Parts-Discussion
I'll edit the OP during our "route" making this Thread better and better!
Now,some resources that thanks to G can help us to discuss:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050829111409/otc.uzipp.com/index.shtml
http://homepage3.nifty.com/hind/sub10-1.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20050309131710/www.damashii.net/
Template (Click to View)
Draft Plastics Tier List (Second Draft) Wrote:Attack
Discuss: Obviously various combos need to be considered.Upper Attack (Click to View)
Correct Bases for Upper Attack SP
Driger V2?
Investigate the effect of spin direction, as mentioned by McFrown. View His Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilrfsjLj688
Discuss: Wolborg 2’s Shaft in BK’s Casings with Customise Bearing Base+Whatever SP (added to top tier, though I’d like more input on it).Smash Attack (Click to View)
Discuss: Basically, everything. What makes a good OHKO combo, etc etc. Engine Gears?One Hit Knock Out (OHKO)*NEEDS A LOT OF WORK (Click to View)
Defense
What SG would be used with Defense Grip Base (seaborg) (Is an HMC worth the stamina tradeoff?)Grip-Based (Click to View)
Discuss: Mirage Goddess (Venus/Venusian G), War Monkey and other AR’s with free spinning sub-AR’s. Is 10 heavy viable (Wide Defense and Survivor greatly lower the recoil of Upper Dragoon and Smash Turtle, 10 heavy doesn’t. Would War Monkey or whatever make it more viable?)Weight Based (Click to View)
Endurance
Discuss: AR TieringZombies (Click to View)
Balance
Discuss: Holy Despell+War Lion SAR, Metal Ball Base (can’t use HMC, lighter than SG MCB+HMC), Magne WD.Compacts (Click to View)
Discuss: The name, What SG to use in Volcano Change Base. Should we include notes on launching (SCB self KO’s, so specific launches must be used to utilise this combo successfully)SCB AKA Buezee Was Right (Spin Stealers/Zombie Killers?) (Click to View)
Other Discussion: What about other random balance combo’s? Retesting of 10bBistool is needed, as much of its popularity seems based on effectiveness in the Hasbro Finals Stadiums, which we don’t use. Without them, it gets KO’d or Zombied by most things.
Fortress Base with Different SG's needs investigation.
Hope this Thread will be useful also for someone that reading and discussing here will be able to write the missing articles on Plastics for BeyWiki,for first me to give the good example
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Mc Frown - Jul. 22, 2011
By part or customization?
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
First off: Nice links!
Anyway, I'm just copying over some posts I've made in the previous discussion to start this off:
Firstly: Beywiki basically has Compacts and Zombies covered full, we can basically use their pages for most of this.
Upper Attack
Bases: Grip Base, Storm Grip, SG Metal Flat 2.
AR's: Upper Dragoon, Triangle Wing, Triple Tiger
WD's: 10 Heavy, 6 Heavy (I want McFrown's input on this, and the same for compacts, as back in the day he made some great points about 6 heavy. He'd actually be really nice to have around for this project in general).
SG: Neo SG+HMC, preferrably right. *add more notes here
That's the basic ones. Upper Claw + Upper Attack SP need to be included with a suitable base, and there are some more specialised ones.
Smash Attack:
AR's: Eight Spiker, Triple Wing, Cross Griffon (if/when legalised), and Triple Tiger (I guess?).
Bases: Grip Base, Storm Grip, and SG Metal Flat (with an HMC).
WD's: 10 Wide, Wide Defense and Wide Survivor.
Then there are things using Fin Tectors with Driger F's shaft, or BK's casings +Wolborg 2's shaft, or heck, I guess even Uriel 2's tip (info is scarce on that, though). These need to be discussed.
I guess SP: Fin Tectors (Attack Mode) can be added, IF we decide to add any bases that can utilise them.
We also need to discuss how we will categorise the Spiral Change Base zombie killer (and general messer-up of many things), that Bluezee found/popularised.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
We're trying to create a discussion to write a Top Tier made of customization and not made of top tier single components!
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Ultra - Jul. 22, 2011
uh we agreed in the other thread that we'd do it by parts... It's easier that way.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
Didn't we settle on making it parts (as for most of them, if you use any of the useable AR/WD/BB, you get a top tier combo), and if anything requires another part to work, we note that down?
Also: More Stuff, mostly off beywiki
Weight Based Defense:
AR: Smash Turtle, Upper Dragoon
WD: Wide Defence
SG: Neo Casings + HMC
BB: SG Metal Ball (4 Metal Balls), ?Fortress Base (2 or 3 sets of balls)*
*Which weight disk is required for 3 sets of balls? Beywiki doesn't make this clear?
Also, IIRC Fortress Base can't use an HMC as it needs SG Oil Ball, so is it top tier?
That will need more work as I'm not totally familiar with defense customs
Grip Based Defence:
AR: War Lion, probably anything that works with zombies, right?
WD: Wide Defense, ?Wide Survivor?
SG: Left SG (Bearing Version 2)
SP: Cross Survivor, Defense Ring, Survivor Ring
BB: Customise Grip Base
ALSO, Links:
http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php?title=Zombie
http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Compact
I've noted anything I want confirmation of, as I'm just judging by beywiki here
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
Well but we have to decide if do a list of parts that can make Top Tier 1 or starting to add also viable components that can make a Tier 2\3.
(Jul. 22, 2011 7:15 PM)th!nk Wrote: First off: Nice links!
Anyway, I'm just copying over some posts I've made in the previous discussion to start this off:
Firstly: Beywiki basically has Compacts and Zombies covered full, we can basically use their pages for most of this.
Upper Attack
Bases: Grip Base, Storm Grip, SG Metal Flat 2.
AR's: Upper Dragoon, Triangle Wing, Triple Tiger
WD's: 10 Heavy, 6 Heavy (I want McFrown's input on this, and the same for compacts, as back in the day he made some great points about 6 heavy. He'd actually be really nice to have around for this project in general).
SG: Neo SG+HMC, preferrably right. *add more notes here
That's the basic ones. Upper Claw + Upper Attack SP need to be included with a suitable base, and there are some more specialised ones.
Smash Attack:
AR's: Eight Spiker, Triple Wing, Cross Griffon (if/when legalised), and Triple Tiger (I guess?).
Bases: Grip Base, Storm Grip, and SG Metal Flat (with an HMC).
WD's: 10 Wide, Wide Defense and Wide Survivor.
Then there are things using Fin Tectors with Driger F's shaft, or BK's casings +Wolborg 2's shaft, or heck, I guess even Uriel 2's tip (info is scarce on that, though). These need to be discussed.
I guess SP: Fin Tectors (Attack Mode) can be added, IF we decide to add any bases that can utilise them.
We also need to discuss how we will categorise the Spiral Change Base zombie killer (and general messer-up of many things), that Bluezee found/popularised.
All Tier 1,don't we consider also parts that can be played in the case them are not available?
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
Also, Blizzard Orthros' Twin Guard for zombies/grip-based defense?
It looks like Survivor Ring, but with only two protrusions, so I'm thinking it would work?
We can work on second tiers when we've finished the first tier. Let's get the top tier done first.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
Ok,it seems good!
I've got a Blizzard Orthos, i'll do tests.
By the way,i'd say to start with ONE category. I've fear to do a lot of confusion putting more categories in the same time.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
I think we can manage handling all the different types (upper attack, smash attack, compact, zombie etc) at once, as that avoids making people wait to share their knowledge of a particular type. Seeing as we can just go through the posts made to review anything, I think it would be fine.
I hope that's clear enough
I'm just writing down some basic outlines that need to be checked and added to, just to get it started properly. I guess we might want to actually define the categories first though, so I'll work on that for a little.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Ultra - Jul. 22, 2011
For the second and third tiers we'll probably need to look back at old threads. Anyway here's the way I think the layout should be:
Quote:Attack
OKHO
ARs
Tier 1, 2 and 3
WD
Tier 1, 2 and 3
SG
BB
Upper Attack
ARs
WD
SG
BB
Smash Attack
Defence
Grip Based
AR
WD
SG
BB
Weight Based
AR
WD
SG
BB
Endurance/Stamina
Zombies
AR
WD
SG
BB
Compacts
The parts for each type would be in spoilers.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
You beat me, Ultra!
That said, you've forgotten BALANCE
and as much as the Alphabetical order is nice, I think OHKO belongs a the bottom of attack, as the others are more popular/reliable, in general.
Balance:
-Compacts
And as for Bluezees Spiral Change Spin Stealer, I don't know what to call that. Stamina or Balance? And then what do we call it's sub category, as there are various parts that work (even Volcano Change Base, in Endurance mode, apparently works)?
Seeing as all wolborg 2 shaft zombies are going to be basically defense combo's, we'd need to filter them out of the zombies list in stamina.
Weight Disk Attack isn't a top tier type, so I've skipped that.
So: We've basically already got basic lists for everything but 1-Hit KO combo's. That will need to be worked on, I think.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Ultra - Jul. 22, 2011
I've got a few ideas for OHKO's. I think maybe we should put wolborg 2 shaft zombies in a balance type section since they're a mixture of defence and zombie.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
It'd probably be best if Bluezee wrote this out and explained it, but he's currently unable to post, so here's a very rough idea of it, which I'mma ask him to look over
Spin Stealers/Zombie Killers/Whatever we call this thing that Bluezee popularised/found
Balance
Bluezee's Spin Stealer/Zombie Killer or whatever we're calling it:
AR: Screw Zeus, War Lion, Tiger Defenser
WD: Wide Survivor, Wide Defense, 10 Wide.
SG: Right SG (Free Shaft Ver) for Spiral Change Base, Right SG for volcano change? As the most common use of it is to kill zombies, using right spin is generally the best idea, as far as I know, but Left Spin should be viable as a spin stealer, too.
BB: Spiral Change Base (Attack Mode, Endurance Mode can be used, but it is often easily KO'd), Volcano Change Base (Endurance Mode).
Maybe a note on the launches used to prevent self KOing with SCB in attack mode.
This is where we encounter problems with the ATK/DEF/END/BAL system. Grip based defence is one of the major forms of defence, and is classed as defence by beywiki.
This is why I am concerned about the ATK/DEF/END/BAL thing, as we're gonna be stuck debating over where to put things...
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
OHKO?
Whale Crusher,Cybernetic Dragoon are first two top choices in my opinion.
EDIT: now we must consider two ways of thinking: OHKO fast, and heavy OHKO!
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Ultra - Jul. 22, 2011
(Jul. 22, 2011 7:54 PM)Galaxy Wrote: OHKO?
Whale Crusher,Cybernetic Dragoon are first two top choices in my opinion.
Those were the main ones I was thinking of.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
(Jul. 22, 2011 7:55 PM)Ultrablader Wrote:Well!(Jul. 22, 2011 7:54 PM)Galaxy Wrote: OHKO?
Whale Crusher,Cybernetic Dragoon are first two top choices in my opinion.
Those were the main ones I was thinking of.
I think most useful WD with the ARs is a Wide Defende,or as second choice a 10 Heavy!
Then an HMC to give more wight to the combos,and finally very fast BBs: Full Auto Clutch,Flats,Grip Base,Storm Base.
EDIT: Also SG Auto Change Base (Wyborg Base) in Hole Flat mode,but then you can't put any HMC in that Base,and maybe it could be uncontrollable!
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
I think 10 Heavy is the first choice, IIRC.
Whale Attacker needs to be looked at, and Spike Dragon might be a contender.
Then we need to look at BB's. Storm Grip, SG Metal Flat 2 are obvious.
Fantom Grip is probably second tier, but it is still very good, so yeah.
We probably should look into Engine Gears and the Dragoon G and GT bases, IMO.
And there were also the parts of that combo mentioned in the last thread, with Whale Attacker, by KoD PT.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
(Jul. 22, 2011 8:06 PM)th!nk Wrote: I think 10 Heavy is the first choice, IIRC.We can also use a Customize Grip Base with Fin Tectors to give an upgrade to Smash Attack and create a better OHKO combo!
Whale Attacker needs to be looked at, and Spike Dragon might be a contender.
Then we need to look at BB's. Storm Grip, SG Metal Flat 2 are obvious.
Fantom Grip is probably second tier, but it is still very good, so yeah.
We probably should look into Engine Gears and the Dragoon G and GT bases, IMO.
And there were also the parts of that combo mentioned in the last thread, with Whale Attacker, by KoD PT.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Benjohadi - Jul. 22, 2011
(Jul. 22, 2011 7:53 PM)th!nk Wrote: Spin Stealers/Zombie Killers/Whatever we call this thing that Bluezee popularised/foundOHKO??
AR: War Lion, Tiger Defense, zeus screw(the upper part of the zeus while using different sub ar if i not mistaken)
WD: Wide Survivor, Wide Defense, 10 Wide (wonder if Magnecore is worth looking at, as it is wider than Tiger Defense)
SG: Depends on the base, and preferrably opposite spin to opponent, so usually Right Spin.
BB: Spiral Change Base (attack mode), Volcano Change Base (Endurance Mode).
might dont forget Left Turbo engine and dragoon gt's CEW...
nice job guys..i'm delighted looking at this thread..
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
Galaxy: Yeah, thought so. We also need to look at Uriel 2's base, and it's SG.
Benjohadi: yeah, I know it's name (it's Screw Zeus) I just wanted to check if I was right about it.
We also need to look into Screw Zeus, either the AR or SAR, for zombies, and grip defence, too.
I've PM'd bluezee, to ask him to look over that SCB combo summary.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Evan - Jul. 22, 2011
(Jul. 22, 2011 8:14 PM)th!nk Wrote: Yeah, thought so. We also need to look at Uriel 2's base, and it's SG.
IIRC Uriel 2's base was well known as one of the best attack bases.
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Galaxy - Jul. 22, 2011
Yes i thought at that base,but it's quite fragile.
Fortunately i bought one of them as spare part from <3
I'll test it with Fin Tectors or whatever you say
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - th!nk - Jul. 22, 2011
I rarely see it listed on beywiki, and I don't own one, so I'll let the more knowledgeable guys discuss that. Just make sure we actually look at it
That'd be cool Galaxy
RE: Building a Plastic Top Tier List! - Dan - Jul. 22, 2011
In relation to Bluezee's Spiral, heres what he has to say:
Bluezee Wrote:The combo that I made with Spiral Change Base should be known as a balance type. Due to the fact that SCB can be changed from endurance to attack mode already warrants this combo to be placed under combination. That vital switch determines if you will OS your opponent with the natural LAD ability SCB has while in endurance mode or give the combo more attack while relying on the WD to smash your opponent out while using the small protrusions (the amount varying depending on if you use Wide Defense, Wide Survivior, or 10 Wide) to aid in spin stealing and having the extra boost, although rather small but very relevant, of LAD by using the spring inside of SCB to give the base more of an extension to roam around the stadium and roll a bit further for a solid win or tie.