The dragon heads on nL are much more flushed out. There isn't as big of a metal contact point as the parts on zA and wV.

---

95% of the time I spend on this site is on mobile

Not gonna lie, 12 might as well be banned, I would only use it against Fakes, since it can gouge out chunks of plastic.

---

Howdy. I'm Busy, Kentucky Organizer. I've currently got a few victories under my belt, but don't let that fool you... I'm a complete idiot most of the time.

A way to not have to ban a disk is to regulate what disks can be used with tall drivers. Damage is caused by the Volcanic driver being tall. If we made it where only a select amount of disks can be used with tall drivers we can minimize damage while allowing for frame contact.

But what if someone uses the Gattayaki technique, snipe shots or jumping Beyblades with the 12 disk? I don't want to my precious Bey to be shreddered or slowly chopped into pieces. I would either be for a ban on the 12 disk or a ban on using 12 without a frame.

Obviously the first part regulation would be any disk that can cause damage (a testing combo would be used to see if damage occurs) would require a frame. If blader did not bring a frame a frame will be given to the blader to use in the tournament. As penalty the blader will be given a random frame, not the frame of their choosing. They must return the frame after the tournament. Removing this frame in the tournament would count as changing combos.

Would this work?

---

Highly Observant Hasbro Blader.

---

Obviously the first part regulation would be any disk that can cause damage (a testing combo would be used to see if damage occurs) would require a frame. If blader did not bring a frame a frame will be given to the blader to use in the tournament. As penalty the blader will be given a random frame, not the frame of their choosing. They must return the frame after the tournament. Removing this frame in the tournament would count as changing combos.

Would this work?

I don't think it needs to be like that. If they do not have a frame for it, they can either swap the disc for another that doesn't also require a frame or try to borrow a frame or another disc from someone.

It'd be like having a god chip compatible layer without a god chip. If they didn't have a god chip, they'd have to find one somehow. That's the rules.

---

[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

Obviously the first part regulation would be any disk that can cause damage (a testing combo would be used to see if damage occurs) would require a frame. If blader did not bring a frame a frame will be given to the blader to use in the tournament. As penalty the blader will be given a random frame, not the frame of their choosing. They must return the frame after the tournament. Removing this frame in the tournament would count as changing combos.

Would this work?

I don't think it needs to be like that. If they do not have a frame for it, they can either swap the disc for another that doesn't also require a frame or try to borrow a frame or another disc from someone.

It'd be like having a god chip compatible layer without a god chip. If they didn't have a god chip, they'd have to find one somehow. That's the rules.

Ok. Makes sense.

---

Highly Observant Hasbro Blader.

---

Simple fix ... use a frame to cover the layer

Simple fix ... use a frame to cover the layer

We've been discussing this throughout the thread since the opening post...?

---

I don't think it needs to be like that. If they do not have a frame for it, they can either swap the disc for another that doesn't also require a frame or try to borrow a frame or another disc from someone.

It'd be like having a god chip compatible layer without a god chip. If they didn't have a god chip, they'd have to find one somehow. That's the rules.

Ok. Makes sense.

Yeah, I think the simpler we keep it, the better. Some people may not even realize they have something not allowed, especially if they're new to the hobby and are just using what they've bought.

---

[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

Simple fix ... use a frame to cover the layer

But why would you if the part is too light to be competitive anyway?

As I keep stressing, the ban of 12 isnt an issue of balancing the metagame (as what I see a fair portion of people treating it as). You won't prove anything with a trial ban because the part is just too light to be worth anything in a normal combo, and if anything, trial ban will only prove 12 doesn't change the balance of the metagame. Its like saying saying you could make Wild Wyvern useful on atomic, but in reality, a horrible layer plus a driver with a slightly looser driver in reality will just serve to be mediocre.

It's its own problem entirely: it's a matter of trying to get rid of a part that has been shown to damage others. Its almost like hitting people with the gun in a laser tag tournament with an oudated, but heavier laser gun. (which I confess to doing once at age ten.) You aren't scoring points, but you are hurting everyone else in the process, quite literally. Would you feel comfortable in a situation knowing there is a chance you could get a bruise, even though you would win because the opponent is using poor technique? Why would you want to make the gun safer if its firing power is low?

---

.

Simple fix ... use a frame to cover the layer

But why would you if the part is too light to be competitive anyway?

As I keep stressing, the ban of 12 isnt an issue of balancing the metagame (as what I see a fair portion of people treating it as). You won't prove anything with a trial ban because the part is just too light to be worth anything in a normal combo, and if anything,  trial ban will only prove 12 doesn't change the balance of the metagame. Its like saying saying you could make Wild Wyvern useful on atomic, but in reality, a horrible layer plus a driver with a slightly looser driver in reality will just serve to be mediocre.

It's its own problem entirely: it's a matter of trying to get rid of a part that has been shown to damage others. Its almost like hitting people with the gun in a laser tag tournament with an oudated, but heavier laser gun. (which I confess to doing once at age ten.) You aren't scoring points, but you are hurting everyone else in the process, quite literally. Would you feel comfortable in a situation knowing there is a chance you could get a bruise, even though you would win because the opponent is using poor technique? Why would you want to make the gun safer if its firing power is low?

A case that maybe possible.
Just think you're playing with a opponent who is using 12 disk without frame on a tall DRIVER.
Even If you win against that opponent, you bey shall be ruined.
There are guys(bullies) who are not interested in Winning but Destroying other's beys.

---

As I keep stressing, the ban of 12 isnt an issue of balancing the metagame (as what I see a fair portion of people treating it as). You won't prove anything with a trial ban because the part is just too light to be worth anything in a normal combo, and if anything,  trial ban will only prove 12 doesn't change the balance of the metagame. Its like saying saying you could make Wild Wyvern useful on atomic, but in reality, a horrible layer plus a driver with a slightly looser driver in reality will just serve to be mediocre.

It's its own problem entirely: it's a matter of trying to get rid of a part that has been shown to damage others. Its almost like hitting people with the gun in a laser tag tournament with an oudated, but heavier laser gun. (which I confess to doing once at age ten.) You aren't scoring points, but you are hurting everyone else in the process, quite literally. Would you feel comfortable in a situation knowing there is a chance you could get a bruise, even though you would win because the opponent is using poor technique? Why would you want to make the gun safer if its firing power is low?

You're misunderstanding the purpose of the temp ban I am requesting. It is not a test to see how the metagame fares without it, as you seem to be interpreting it.

The idea is, make it banned first and then look into how to best deal with it. Rather than, as it stands, do nothing while trying to figure out what to do. So, temp ban and decide if a more permanent ban is necessary while more data is collected. It's like being held without bail before a trial, pretty much.

I am really hoping the WBO makes some actual action. The purpose of my temp ban request was to act swiftly but reasonably, but this is taking time for something that clearly has evidence. You can't do much better than right on video.

I agree that it seems simpler to just perma-ban a piece that has proven no other worth rather than invest the effort to figure out what frames work and don't work and all those other details. However, it is hard to beat an argument where things become equally safe--and that's all that really matters anyway. If proper tests are done to at least check that the points get covered by different frames, then what can I really argue? This is particularly true if there are other sharp discs that haven't been causing noticeable problems but the taller drives are what's bringing about these issues.

---

[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

But why would you if the part is too light to be competitive anyway?

As I keep stressing, the ban of 12 isnt an issue of balancing the metagame (as what I see a fair portion of people treating it as). You won't prove anything with a trial ban because the part is just too light to be worth anything in a normal combo, and if anything,  trial ban will only prove 12 doesn't change the balance of the metagame. Its like saying saying you could make Wild Wyvern useful on atomic, but in reality, a horrible layer plus a driver with a slightly looser driver in reality will just serve to be mediocre.

It's its own problem entirely: it's a matter of trying to get rid of a part that has been shown to damage others. Its almost like hitting people with the gun in a laser tag tournament with an oudated, but heavier laser gun. (which I confess to doing once at age ten.) You aren't scoring points, but you are hurting everyone else in the process, quite literally. Would you feel comfortable in a situation knowing there is a chance you could get a bruise, even though you would win because the opponent is using poor technique? Why would you want to make the gun safer if its firing power is low?

A case that maybe possible.
Just think you're playing with a opponent who is using 12 disk without frame on a tall DRIVER.
Even If you win against that opponent, you bey shall be ruined.
There are guys(bullies) who are not interested in Winning but Destroying other's beys.

Exactly my point. I really dont know why you would want to use 12 with a frame. It is already exceptionally light, so a frame would make it ultimately worthless, or about as useful as something like magnum.

A semi regulation would be a waste of time for a part that is worthless competitively. Just ban it altogether. Its easier, and keeps our tops safe.

---

.

Exactly my point. I really dont know why you would want to use 12 with a frame. It is already exceptionally light, so a frame would make it ultimately worthless, or about as useful as something like magnum.

A semi regulation would be a waste of time for a part that is worthless competitively. Just ban it altogether. Its easier, and keeps our tops safe.

But after talking with others and chewing on the discussion, I think there may be more of an issue than just 12 here. It is worth looking into the factors, I believe, in case these new tall drivers cause other parts that are otherwise safe to be damaging as well. It's just that 12 has clearly demonstrated as much so far. We can learn from 12.

At the end of the day, the WBO can "waste" their time all they want. If they can collect evidence to prove whatever point they want to make, I say let them, so long as the beys are safe in the end. Doesn't mean you still can't think it's a waste, that's your opinion to have.

We agree on some points and disagree on others, but that's just how opinions go. I think I'll leave it at that, because we're just gonna keep repeating. We don't have to try to convince each other, I'm sure our words will both be heard and considered.

At the end, if the beys are safe and people don't feel afraid to play, I'm happy.

---

[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

"The 12 Disk is banned"
"The 12 Disk must be used with a frame due to breakage issues."

I question how banning the Disk altogether is any easier than saying it must have a Frame. It's a very easy to understand either way.

But yes, we'll have something to say on this soon, and it'll likely be the suggestion that has already been stated. Most of the problem here stems from the 12 Disk combined with any height altering Driver (Tower, Xtend, Volcanic), but it's not exclusive to that. Imbalance from the opponent can also result in hitting the 12 Disk, which also causes issues. The best options all around are to either ban or force Frame usage, and the latter is what we'll probably do to prevent the part from sitting on a banlist forever.

---

Hoshi-no-Yume FS | Wiki Profile | Twitter | Burst Collection | Osu! | MyAnimeList

Add me on your Switch!
3008-5546-8702

"The 12 Disk is banned"
"The 12 Disk must be used with a frame due to breakage issues."

I question how banning the Disk altogether is any easier than saying it must have a Frame. It's a very easy to understand either way.

But yes, we'll have something to say on this soon, and it'll likely be the suggestion that has already been stated. Most of the problem here stems from the 12 Disk combined with any height altering Driver (Tower, Xtend, Volcanic), but it's not exclusive to that. Imbalance from the opponent can also result in hitting the 12 Disk, which also causes issues. The best options all around are to either ban or force Frame usage, and the latter is what we'll probably do to prevent the part from sitting on a banlist forever.

I dont know why though. 12 is too light anyways to be considered for competitive usage. I feel only allowing frames brings more attention to this part.

Its not like you are retracting anything from the metagame if you remove it or not. After all, it is the lightest core.

Im not trying to sound stuck up or rude in any way, but i feel banning it is just a better decision. I mean, if the part was worth anything in terms of weight and competitivity, I would say that a frame only regulation would make more sense.

Here is a potential suggestion if its decided that we for some reason want to keep 12: only allow 12 on left rotating beys. This is because the spikes are jutting out at a clockwise angle, so any layer coming in contact would be blunter, and not stabbed.

but again, why give so much attention to a part this poorly acting?

---

.

"The 12 Disk is banned"
"The 12 Disk must be used with a frame due to breakage issues."

I question how banning the Disk altogether is any easier than saying it must have a Frame. It's a very easy to understand either way.

But yes, we'll have something to say on this soon, and it'll likely be the suggestion that has already been stated. Most of the problem here stems from the 12 Disk combined with any height altering Driver (Tower, Xtend, Volcanic), but it's not exclusive to that. Imbalance from the opponent can also result in hitting the 12 Disk, which also causes issues. The best options all around are to either ban or force Frame usage, and the latter is what we'll probably do to prevent the part from sitting on a banlist forever.

I dont know why though. 12 is too light anyways to be considered for competitive usage. I feel only allowing frames brings more attention to this part.

Its not like you are retracting anything from the metagame if you remove it or not. After all, it is the lightest core.

Im not trying to sound stuck up or rude in any way, but i feel banning it is just a better decision. I mean, if the part was worth anything in terms of weight and competitivity, I would say that a frame only regulation would make more sense.

Here is a potential suggestion if its decided that we for some reason want to keep 12: only allow 12 on left rotating beys. This is because the spikes are jutting out at a clockwise angle, so any layer coming in contact would be blunter, and not stabbed.

but again, why give so much attention to a part this poorly acting?

Some troll might use 12, not to win, but to purposefully damage the opponent's Layer and force them to buy a replacement because that's "funny" to some people. That's why we're giving so much attention to it.

Plus, with how heavy the Layers are now, lightweight Disks like 12 make them almost impossible to burst while the Layer makes sure the overall weight of the combination could still be be viable.

I dont know why though. 12 is too light anyways to be considered for competitive usage. I feel only allowing frames brings more attention to this part.

Its not like you are retracting anything from the metagame if you remove it or not. After all, it is the lightest core.

Im not trying to sound stuck up or rude in any way, but i feel banning it is just a better decision. I mean, if the part was worth anything in terms of weight and competitivity, I would say that a frame only regulation would make more sense.

Here is a potential suggestion if its decided that we for some reason want to keep 12: only allow 12 on left rotating beys. This is because the spikes are jutting out at a clockwise angle, so any layer coming in contact would be blunter, and not stabbed.

but again, why give so much attention to a part this poorly acting?

Some troll might use 12, not to win, but to purposefully damage the opponent's Layer and force them to buy a replacement because that's "funny" to some people. That's why we're giving so much attention to it.

Plus, with how heavy the Layers are now, lightweight Disks like 12 make them almost impossible to burst while the Layer makes sure the overall weight of the combination could still be be viable.

If you want something lightweight, there are enough single layer discs we could use. Heck, maybe even heavy or spread could be useful on ChoZ.

Also, 11 is pretty light itself. I just dont see use for 12 if it is this dangerous.

---

.

I am pretty sure TT is going to put out new duller 12 disks. The amount of reports of damaged layers is insane in it's own right. I personally don't think a force frame would be effective for people who want to destroy other peoples beys. The original Valkyrie, and Spriggan are very small, making the frame rule useless is if the contact points of 12 are sticking out the sides of the layer. The duller disk would make damaging the bey less easy to do.

I am pretty sure TT is going to put out new duller 12 disks. The amount of reports of damaged layers is insane in it's own right. I personally don't think  a force frame would be effective for people who want to destroy other peoples beys. The original Valkyrie, and Spriggan are very small, making the frame rule useless is if the contact points of 12  are sticking out the sides of the layer. The duller disk would make damaging the bey less easy to do.

Well, even on the original single Layers, the Disks are not big enough to extend past the Layer, only the Frame does

If I see someone using
V.12.E
I'm gonna flip

---

Give me all the bread

The only reason 12 can hit layers is because of the tall driver on winning valkyrie. As long as your opponent uses a driver that is shorter than volcanic, such as hold, then you are ok.

Maybe a trial ban until TT does something about it

---

Rip hasbro Press 2016-2017 

Maybe a trial ban until TT does something about it

I second this.

In order to avoid any issues at tournaments this weekend, you guys can expect our initial decision on this to be posted by this Friday.

---

If I see someone using
V.12.E
I'm gonna flip

Just the other day, didn't you say you were gonna start using V.12.E ?

If I see someone using
V.12.E
I'm gonna flip

Just the other day, didn't you say you were gonna start using V.12.E ?

Jokingly, I'd never wish that on another blader

---

Give me all the bread