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+--- Thread: Ban on Disc 12? (/Thread-Ban-on-Disc-12)
Ban on Disc 12? - Frostic Fox - Mar. 23, 2018
![[Image: Kjf0EnZ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/Kjf0EnZ.png)
People have been finding that 12's bladed design causes it to damage other Beyblades. Something should be done about it to prevent it from causing problems in WBO tournaments, and I think the first step is to temp ban until further can be decided.
(Mar. 21, 2018 2:09 AM)Grey Bey Wrote: found this on Facebook:
Spoiler (Click to View)
and this on twitter (here) :
Spoiler (Click to View)
apparently the sharp blades on 12 and the heigh variation in drivers wasn't really a good idea...
![[Image: 29366274_1476324605809596_71091024354958...e=5B30090B]](https://scontent.fssa13-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29366274_1476324605809596_7109102435495872773_n.jpg?_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGN3bGVwGjg3-PSwX7dFnP5u7BQNOBZlUeNztywsHDIw0xF0toqd4MGpGc4qczqhTTSYIF9qEaB-73halURLkxwoQma3qiuEh4Q2t1xeEe9YA&oh=28e1d56bbeb3da5df5dc5126dd6d399a&oe=5B30090B)
![[Image: 29425698_1540031456113745_79945557843629...e=5B2B4D0A]](https://scontent.fssa13-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29425698_1540031456113745_7994555784362983424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGlqPfl0R3C3xc4xDcNatibFnbt7pxxrsTi95G_zVKEWZfnl6UrjMVM3z1ngYMWXi1IwBdFxNp0K5hasUKtth6XuTjj1lE431tK_EWrSzNvhg&oh=46fcabc03e39758f794d492482089f30&oe=5B2B4D0A)
To repeat what I said there:
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:04 AM)Frostic Fox Wrote: I think there's two routes to go: banning it or requiring certain frames proven and trusted to cover it.
The reasons to ban it over using frames is that it may be simpler just to get rid of it and that some people still may not feel comfortable going up against it despite it being covered. Considering the part seems to be worthless competitively, it seems easier to do away with it and not worry about it.
But if the WBO would rather work something out and thinks they can be sure people don't feel worried about it, then go for it. But something should be done asap to keep it from being used bare currently.
I think it would be fair to kick in a temp ban until either an officially-approved frames list can be put together or a decision to fully ban it is decided.
I also think it would be worth gauging input from the community about how comfortable they would be in putting their beys up against the part even if it has a frame on it, as well as if there is any actual opposition to it being banned.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Adarsh Abhinav - Mar. 23, 2018
A Ban or using a frame is a good option to prevent damage.
But We need to carry out the testing first.
You might consider this a open invitation to damage beys,
but testing has to carried out.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - ThePheonix - Mar. 23, 2018
There is no need to BAN it IMO but instead put a frame. It's not that heavy anyway
EDIT: But any frame should work cuz I havn't seen anyone complain saying "MY STAR FRAME SLICED MY Z ACHILLIES IN A HALF"
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Bey_$avage - Mar. 23, 2018
i wouldnt feel comfortable going against a 12 disc & since we know what it does to other beyblades while still already being outclassed by older heavier discs, it would seem like a jerk move to use against someone because there's no use except its damaging capability while losing
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:34 AM)ThePheonix Wrote: There is no need to BAN it IMO but instead put a frame. It's not that heavy anyway
EDIT: But any frame should work cuz I havn't seen anyone complain saying "MY STAR FRAME SLICED MY Z ACHILLIES IN A HALF"
but that doesnt really make sense, the star frame doesnt literally cut beys in half... the 12 frame literally takes chunks off of layers and leaves them gouged and for no good reason because its like the lighest frame and isnt smart for competitive combos
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - ThePheonix - Mar. 23, 2018
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:37 AM)Bey_$avage Wrote: i wouldnt feel comfortable going against a 12 disc & since we know what it does to other beyblades while still already being outclassed by older heavier discs, it would seem like a jerk move to use against someone because there's no use except its damaging capability while losing
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:34 AM)ThePheonix Wrote: There is no need to BAN it IMO but instead put a frame. It's not that heavy anyway
EDIT: But any frame should work cuz I havn't seen anyone complain saying "MY STAR FRAME SLICED MY Z ACHILLIES IN A HALF"
but that doesnt really make sense, the star frame doesnt literally cut beys in half... the 12 frame literally takes chunks off of layers and leaves them gouged and for no good reason because its like the lighest frame and isnt smart for competitive combos
I was being sarcastic lol
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Frostic Fox - Mar. 23, 2018
That's why I put forth the suggestion of a temp ban, preventing any possible issues until more data can be collected and a list of frames that are proven to cover the points properly can be put together (unless a decision to just make the ban final comes to pass).
Allowing it to be used bare-metal after seeing what we're seeing seems unwise and can potentially make people feel uncomfortable participating in events...and that is just a bummer.
And that's also why I think there needs to be a proven list of frames, because if you're going to go that route, you want to make people feel that they can trust what is being given.
Added a mention of suggesting a temp ban to start off near the top of the post, to make sure that aspect isn't missed.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Sıon - Mar. 23, 2018
If you want my opinion, I would ban it altogether, because its useless competitively because of its weight; I heavily doubt a plastic addon would really contribute to putting this on winning tops.
As far as Im concerned, the only reason anyone would really use 12 is to pull off a Mizuchi Reiji in tournament, which is a really carp thing to do. I doubt any 12 users would be willing to cover such a vile part with a frame, which makes the part even further useless. I would say better safe than sorry in this scenario.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Kei - Mar. 23, 2018
We will take a look at this as soon as possible for sure. If anything, I think at least a temporary ban on using the Core Disk alone is the most appropriate. Frames would cover it, so there's no point in banning it altogether. That's my initial impression, at least.
If anyone sees any other examples of damage caused by this Disk posted online, or has any of their own, please post it here. Thank you!
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Cuza Ackerman 1 - Mar. 23, 2018
I don't think they should ban it, but rather redesign it so it doesn't really damage a whole lot to opposing beys. Plus, that disc is so cool!
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Bey_$avage - Mar. 23, 2018
@[Kei] start the video @0:47 seconds and watch. also @5:41 you can see a few black specks around ken-chan's stadium (5 by my count) and theyre all little pieces of plastic that keep being gouged off of EF
(Mar. 23, 2018 6:41 PM)Cuza Ackerman 1 Wrote: I don't think they should ban it, but rather redesign it so it doesn't really damage a whole lot to opposing beys. Plus, that disc is so cool!
thats a good idea! but i dont think takara tomy would like to admit that they messed up and have to completely re-do a new part lol. but a heavier 12 with those contact points pushed back in instead of portruding out would make for a much better disc than what we got
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Frostic Fox - Mar. 23, 2018
(Mar. 23, 2018 6:36 PM)Kei Wrote: We will take a look at this as soon as possible for sure. If anything, I think at least a temporary ban on using the Core Disk alone is the most appropriate. Frames would cover it, so there's no point in banning it altogether. That's my initial impression, at least.
If anyone sees any other examples of damage caused by this Disk posted online, or has any of their own, please post it here. Thank you!
Thank you! Just preventing people getting their beys damaged or feeling uncomfortable battling is what I'm aiming for.
I find that my Fafnir has damage to its rubber, which was the only layer I used in battle against 12. But I have to say, I can't be 100% sure that the damage wasn't there prior, so I'm not sure it's worth counting. But I figure it's worth mentioning.
(Mar. 23, 2018 6:41 PM)Cuza Ackerman 1 Wrote: I don't think they should ban it, but rather redesign it so it doesn't really damage a whole lot to opposing beys. Plus, that disc is so cool!
The WBO is fan-run and not affiliated with Takara-Tomy, the WBBA, or any of that. So they can't do anything about the design of the part. But they can adjust their own rules to best prevent harmful usage of it by those who follow them.
@[Bey_$avage] in seeing that video, I have to say that I am inclined to believe that the damage on my Fafnir came about through 12. Though I honestly did not inspect Fafnir thoroughly before using it, only after when reading about 12's damaging potential, the placement and shape of the cut on Emperor Forneus very much reminds me of the one on my Fafnir.
I think something similar is shown in the pictures from the other thread, but the video shows that the points actually dig in and cut rather than just scratch and bash. (I only interpreted the latter from the other photos, at least).
From the video:
![[Image: AStPODm.png]](https://i.imgur.com/AStPODm.png)
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Thunder Blur - Mar. 23, 2018
I have an idea and it might be crazy but.... put a frame on it to minimize the damage
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Frostic Fox - Mar. 23, 2018
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:38 PM)Thunder Blur Wrote: I have an idea and it might be crazy but.... put a frame on it to minimize the damage
We have been discussing using frames since the opening post...?
I disagree with using frames only to minimize damage. Any frame combination allowable should not allow 12's points to touch other beys, and any frames that still allow damage to happen from 12's design shouldn't be legal combinations.
Bey_$avage suggested I bring the pic over here from my Fafnir thread, so I'm doing that now:
Spoiler (Click to View)
It's not a great photo, but that's what I have at the moment. My friend has a really good camera and so I'm going to see if I can get a better shot with their help.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Bey_$avage - Mar. 23, 2018
![[Image: yC1MHGT.png]](https://i.imgur.com/yC1MHGT.png)
@[Kei] , frostic fox claims that this damage to his fafnir's rubber was caused by use against 12
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Frostic Fox - Mar. 24, 2018
Sorry @[Bey_$avage] I missed the part you said about tagging. Thanks for getting that.
@[Kei] I was able to get some other imagery that is a little clearer. After talking it over with some friends, we believe another mark may have also been caused by 12. I thought maybe it was a from-factory plastic mark, but we noticed together that it is actually indented and in the same region of the layer as the other damage. (My sleep schedule has been shot lately, so my ability to notice has been down a bit, too, I will admit.)
I didn't know 12 damaged other beys when I used it, and I can't 100% be sure of Fafnir's condition beforehand. But I do believe 12 caused this damage. It lines up with what we see in the video posted, which explains things far more clearly than anything else I've seen prior.
Temp banning asap aside, I think it would be good if the WBO used its info-sharing channels to inform bladers of the possibility of 12 damaging other beys to help them avoid going through the same thing I and others seem to have, or worse.
Spoiler (Click to View)
![[Image: AFEqJMQ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/AFEqJMQ.png)
![[Image: FI2qctQ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/FI2qctQ.png)
![[Image: BP45zpw.png]](https://i.imgur.com/BP45zpw.png)
![[Image: LfwShPL.png]](https://i.imgur.com/LfwShPL.png)
I think it's worth noting that I think these images make the damage look deeper than it is. It is all really shallow, it's just the best way I can get it on camera makes the most contrast and gives that deeper-than-it-is effect.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Bastillon - Mar. 24, 2018
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:21 AM)Frostic Fox Wrote: People have been finding that 12's bladed design causes it to damage other Beyblades. Something should be done about it to prevent it from causing problems in WBO tournaments, and I think the first step is to temp ban until further can be decided.Maybe it could be potentially viable as a solo disk when paired with Quake combos, as the blades can directly smash the opponent into the stadium and it's also lightweight enough to jump. I'm a bit conflicted here myself, since I could understand why people would want to ban this disk, but then they'd technically have to ban other disks with larger and sharper protrusions like Nine. The "how sharp is acceptable" dilemma would be a bit troublesome for many releases to come if TT keeps making bad design choices.
To repeat what I said there:
(Mar. 23, 2018 7:04 AM)Frostic Fox Wrote: I think there's two routes to go: banning it or requiring certain frames proven and trusted to cover it.I think it would be fair to kick in a temp ban until either an officially-approved frames list can be put together or a decision to fully ban it is decided.
The reasons to ban it over using frames is that it may be simpler just to get rid of it and that some people still may not feel comfortable going up against it despite it being covered. Considering the part seems to be worthless competitively, it seems easier to do away with it and not worry about it.
But if the WBO would rather work something out and thinks they can be sure people don't feel worried about it, then go for it. But something should be done asap to keep it from being used bare currently.
I also think it would be worth gauging input from the community about how comfortable they would be in putting their beys up against the part even if it has a frame on it, as well as if there is any actual opposition to it being banned.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - MWF - Mar. 24, 2018
A way to not have to ban a disk is to regulate what disks can be used with tall drivers. Damage is caused by the Volcanic driver being tall. If we made it where only a select amount of disks can be used with tall drivers we can minimize damage while allowing for frame contact.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - Frostic Fox - Mar. 24, 2018
I think that is a very good thought @[MWF] about tall drivers. That makes sense for @[Bastillon] and the point of other sharp discs already being in existence prior, which gives a sense that there have been other variables involved that prevented this from happening previously. Of course there has been frames, but then Volcanic is also something unique to stock Winning Valkyrie besides 12 that surely should be looked into. All factors should definitely be considered.
It's just as someone who is coming back into this hobby, it shocks me how damaged my piece is after less than 5 minutes of play. Up until that point, as far as I knew, things didn't work like this.
Figuring out what is acceptable "wear and tear" and acting on what crosses that line to prevent it from doing so, I think that's important here. To an existent, that does mean there is a "how sharp is acceptable" question, but that doesn't mean the answer has to be to permanently ban it, particularly if other routes exist to make it perform within reason.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - RedPanda2 - Mar. 24, 2018
fyi, back off the camera a bit and just crop in afterwards
those photos are not in focus because the bey appears to be inside the minimum focus distance of the lens
try locking focus (tap and hold the screen, on a phone) and then moving the bey slightly forwards and backwards, checking for focus.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - TL14 - Mar. 24, 2018
(Mar. 24, 2018 3:21 PM)MWF Wrote: A way to not have to ban a disk is to regulate what disks can be used with tall drivers. Damage is caused by the Volcanic driver being tall. If we made it where only a select amount of disks can be used with tall drivers we can minimize damage while allowing for frame contact.
But what if someone uses the Gattayaki technique, snipe shots or jumping Beyblades with the 12 disk? I don't want to my precious Bey to be shreddered or slowly chopped into pieces. I would either be for a ban on the 12 disk or a ban on using 12 without a frame.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - MonoDragon - Mar. 24, 2018
I would say, only use 12 with a Frame, that will cover up the blade and make sure no damage occurs.
Plus, that would prevent any [CENSORED] from trying to use 12 only to break the opponent's Layer for giggles
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - juncction - Mar. 24, 2018
In addition to the 12, could it also be possible that the metal parts on the top are also damaging other beys?
The beys don't always spin perpendicular to the stadium and the top of Valk's design is pretty edgy.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - MonoDragon - Mar. 24, 2018
(Mar. 24, 2018 5:59 PM)juncction Wrote: In addition to the 12, could it also be possible that the metal parts on the top are also damaging other beys?
The beys don't always spin perpendicular to the stadium and the top of Valk's design is pretty edgy.
So are Nightmare Longinus' heads but there have been no cases of Layer damage from that so I think Chou-Z Layers are safe
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - juncction - Mar. 24, 2018
(Mar. 24, 2018 6:11 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: So are Nightmare Longinus' heads but there have been no cases of Layer damage from that so I think Chou-Z Layers are safe
Hmm, but Nightmare Longinus' heads aren't static and move as part of the mechanism to burst it. Plus it's left spinning.
But I'm still waiting for my Chou-Z beys to come so I can't say for sure.
RE: Ban on Disc 12? - KnightPro - Mar. 24, 2018
Ive heard my own Nightmare Longinus metal come in contact but no breaks.