[Answered]  Wall vs Lift vs Ratchet for Bearing combos

Hey guys. I have a question for you. Which disc/frame would synergize best with bearing?

Wall is often suggested here, but Lift sees more use is Japan/Korean matches, so I am curious now.

And I also find Ratchet to be good as well, but I am not sure if it has been tested to be as competitive as the frame choices.

Would love to hear your thoughts!
I’d say wall
(Jun. 18, 2019  5:18 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: I’d say wall

I see. Is there a particular reason? Does it lower the center of gravity more than the other two?

I have been using wall as well, and I am wondering if lift (with its smoother perimeter**) and ratchet (with the free spinning ring) could do the same but with better LAD

**I dont even have Lift so I am not actually sure if its perimeter is actually better for LAD than Wall
(Jun. 18, 2019  5:30 AM)eigerblade Wrote:
(Jun. 18, 2019  5:18 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: I’d say wall

I see. Is there a particular reason? Does it lower the center of gravity more than the other two?

I have been using wall as well, and I am wondering if lift (with its smoother perimeter**) and ratchet (with the free spinning ring) could do the same but with better LAD

**I dont even have Lift so I am not actually sure if its perimeter is actually better for LAD than Wall

From what I heard, it allows a Bearing combos to stay upright for much longer than Lift or Turn. No idea about Ratchet. Don't quote me on that
Ratchet outperforms wall on at least a few bearing combos. Wall can scrape and just ruin all or most of it's stamina, although very rare in opposite spin battles.

So, maybe that's the reason why lift is used over wall.
(Jun. 18, 2019  2:10 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Ratchet outperforms wall on at least a few bearing combos. Wall can scrape and just ruin all or most of it's stamina, although very rare in opposite spin battles.

So, maybe that's the reason why lift is used over wall.

I see. So if I'm not getting this wrong, the relationship between Wall and Lift is that Lift performs better on same spin matches due to less scrape risk, but Wall gives better precession on opposite spin matches.

I'm currently testing Ratchet and it seems the free spinning gimmick does not add too much LAD to the combo. When the Bearing combo starts to tip over, it would have too little energy left to even budge the free spinning ring, so I'm still not sure how it sits against the other 2 choices.
(Jun. 18, 2019  3:01 PM)eigerblade Wrote: I see. So if I'm not getting this wrong, the relationship between Wall and Lift is that Lift performs better on same spin matches due to less scrape risk, but Wall gives better precession on opposite spin matches.

I'm currently testing Ratchet and it seems the free spinning gimmick does not add too much LAD to the combo. When the Bearing combo starts to tip over, it would have too little energy left to even budge the free spinning ring, so I'm still not sure how it sits against the other 2 choices.

Yeah, you got that right.
But as I said, ratchet does outperform wall on a few bearing combos if not all (talking about same AND opposite spin battles).
Alright, I guess the answer I got is satisfying enough. I'll tag the thread as "answered". Thanks for your input!
I've been to a few tournaments nearby my home hosted at a store with 16 competetors everytime the winner is the same His combo is Spriggan Requiem energy layer + Ratchet + bearing Best combo ever he almost bought all the beyblades in the store coz he gets store credit every win im buying the parts now
(Jun. 18, 2019  5:42 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote:
(Jun. 18, 2019  3:01 PM)eigerblade Wrote: I see. So if I'm not getting this wrong, the relationship between Wall and Lift is that Lift performs better on same spin matches due to less scrape risk, but Wall gives better precession on opposite spin matches.

I'm currently testing Ratchet and it seems the free spinning gimmick does not add too much LAD to the combo. When the Bearing combo starts to tip over, it would have too little energy left to even budge the free spinning ring, so I'm still not sure how it sits against the other 2 choices.

Yeah, you got that right.
But as I said, ratchet does outperform wall on a few bearing combos if not all (talking about same AND opposite spin battles).

Interesting I haven't really seen ratchet used competitively in Wbo tournaments however vanguard seems to have some use.
(Sep. 12, 2019  1:08 AM)Nate the Blader Wrote:
(Jun. 18, 2019  5:42 PM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote: Yeah, you got that right.
But as I said, ratchet does outperform wall on a few bearing combos if not all (talking about same AND opposite spin battles).

Interesting I haven't really seen ratchet used competitively in Wbo tournaments however vanguard seems to have some use.

If used on the Spriggan line, Ratchet.Bearing can outspin most opposite spin Bearing combos. But for Lord Base, best to use Blitz if on Bearing for both precession and LAD (and even can outlast many combos on same spin since it'll be like a dual-spin Judgment with high attack potential); czS on Sting and Atomic is a beast too, as long as you know what you're doing (but that's a discussion for another time)

0/00Wall/Lift have been dominating the meta (prior to GT) primarily due to the weight distribution that lets Bearing spin quite smoothly and longer than usual stamina Drivers. Pairing of the Core Disk (0 or 00) and Wall/Lift depends on the tested balance of solo spin time for the rest of the given combo (ex. you use czS.0W.Br because you find that 0L or 00W/L give less solo spin time and balance to the combo)

To sum it up (from my experience):

Sr/czS/LS with Rt.Br > spin equalization Layers on opposite spin with 0/00W/L.Br

Just to add into the mix, pP.Bl.Br is also quite popular as I've noted in local tournaments, and only gets shutdown by combos with either Judgment or Zwei.

Vanguard, I really didn't like primarily because of the shape that is much worse than Wall (aka scrape fest), but it may also work.
(Sep. 12, 2019  2:36 AM)Rouzuke Wrote:
(Sep. 12, 2019  1:08 AM)Nate the Blader Wrote: Interesting I haven't really seen ratchet used competitively in Wbo tournaments however vanguard seems to have some use.

If used on the Spriggan line, Ratchet.Bearing can outspin most opposite spin Bearing combos. But for Lord Base, best to use Blitz if on Bearing for both precession and LAD (and even can outlast many combos on same spin since it'll be like a dual-spin Judgment with high attack potential); czS on Sting and Atomic is a beast too, as long as you know what you're doing (but that's a discussion for another time)

0/00Wall/Lift have been dominating the meta (prior to GT) primarily due to the weight distribution that lets Bearing spin quite smoothly and longer than usual stamina Drivers. Pairing of the Core Disk (0 or 00) and Wall/Lift depends on the tested balance of solo spin time for the rest of the given combo (ex. you use czS.0W.Br because you find that 0L or 00W/L give less solo spin time and balance to the combo)

To sum it up (from my experience):

Sr/czS/LS with Rt.Br > spin equalization Layers on opposite spin with 0/00W/L.Br

Just to add into the mix, pP.Bl.Br is also quite popular as I've noted in local tournaments, and only gets shutdown by combos with either Judgment or Zwei.

Vanguard, I really didn't like primarily because of the shape that is much worse than Wall (aka scrape fest), but it may also work.

So it really just depends on the layer and what combo ur facing right?
You mentioned LS works better with Blitz.Bearing but in your summary, you stated that, "Sr/czS/LS with Rt.Br > spin equalization Layers on opposite spin with 0/00W/L.Br".
Based on my own testing, as well as things I've heard from Kei, Shindog, and Infinite.Zero, Wall seems to be the best for Bearing in opposite spin, regardless of Layer or spin direction.

It outclasses Turn, and therefore also Lift in this aspect (though I'd imagine the reason Lift is more popular in Japan/Korea is so people can flip it upside down and have a better chance in same spin matchups, which technically is allowed here too I guess). Because of the way it's designed, Ratchet works better in left spin than it does in right, but I haven't found it to be better than Wall in opposite spin, and it's apparently so bad in same spin that B3.00W.Br can outspin hS.Rt.Br. Not quite sure how Ratchet stacks up to Lift or Turn yet.

Vanguard also appears to be on par with Wall in both same and opposite spin for Stamina/LAD, if not marginally worse, while also providing additional burst resistance.

EDIT: If you're trying to maximize your Bearing's same spin potential and just cut your losses vs opposite spin Xt+/Br combos then something like Cross/Flow/Sting or maybe Expand is your best bet.
(Sep. 13, 2019  5:50 AM)Wombat Wrote: Based on my own testing, as well as things I've heard from Kei, Shindog, and Infinite.Zero, Wall seems to be the best for Bearing in opposite spin, regardless of Layer or spin direction.

It outclasses Turn, and therefore also Lift in this aspect (though I'd imagine the reason Lift is more popular in Japan/Korea is so people can flip it upside down and have a better chance in same spin matchups, which technically is allowed here too I guess). Because of the way it's designed, Ratchet works better in left spin than it does in right, but I haven't found it to be better than Wall in opposite spin, and it's apparently so bad in same spin that B3.00W.Br can outspin hS.Rt.Br. Not quite sure how Ratchet stacks up to Lift or Turn yet.

Vanguard also appears to be on par with Wall in both same and opposite spin for Stamina/LAD, if not marginally worse, while also providing additional burst resistance.

EDIT: If you're trying to maximize your Bearing's same spin potential and just cut your losses vs opposite spin Xt+/Br combos then something like Cross/Flow/Sting or maybe Expand is your best bet.

Wombat coming in clutch, so you think lift is a better option than wall?
(Sep. 13, 2019  6:03 AM)Nate the Blader Wrote: Wombat coming in clutch, so you think lift is a better option than wall?

Uh maybe? You get better/worse coverage vs different things so it's a tradeoff. Back when I tested this L.Br would mostly tie with C.Xt+ in opposite spin, but would lose occasionally (like once every 3-4 rounds or so). When I switched to Wall I got only one round I could call a definite win (for C.Xt+) out of 16 or 17 rounds. So it's safe to say that in its most optimized form Lift is worse than Wall/Turn/Vanguard Bearing and C.Xt+ (idk about Outer) in opposite spin. But it's still Bearing with a Bearing Frame, so it's going to OS most things in opposite spin.

In up skirt mode Lift can probably outspin Rt/Vg/T/W.Br combos in same spin just due to up skirt mode not reaching down as low and scraping (provided that both combos have similar Stamina Layers/Disks). Although it would still probably lose to St/Flow/Cross/Bump.Br and most Xtend+ combos in same spin, since those present even less of a scrape risk. I might be wrong about this part though since I never actually tested this matchup myself and just realized halfway through writing this that in Japan/Korea they also let you remove the Frame as a mode change, so idk why they wouldn't just do that instead of use Lift's up skirt mode.
I'm glad to see people getting interested in this discussion again (now includes Vanguard too!) I made this question back when I was new, and right now I end up preferring 00 Wall for ChoZ Spriggan and 0 Wall for Lord Spriggan.

I see Wombat has some pretty interesting insights regarding this topic, maybe you wanna make a video about it? I'd love to see it if you do.
Personally I rock b3 00 W Br which wre is opposite spin but gets wrecked same spin lol. Gonna have to get lift