(Jun. 29, 2020 2:40 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:Yes, I would say that tV3 is better than tA4, but they serve completely different roles and tA4 is just a kinda unnecessary borderline ban list thing so it's fine that it's banned. If tV3 was banned, Hasbro would be pretty lack luster in attack and therefore it makes sense why tV3 is legal.(Jun. 29, 2020 1:10 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: Technically, one could say the same about Turbo Valtryek being allowed or alternate versions of Drivers like Xtend and Destroy, so I don't think that's a truly valid reason. I'm pretty sure the Cho-Z Beys that are allowed in Limited are just the ones that were always outclassed, and Imperfect Phoenix certainly falls into that category. It could also be an alternative for Hasbro iP4 that's heavier and more unstable with more Driver options.
I don't understand the Turbo Valtryek thing myself to be honest. I've always considered Turbo Valtryek to be stronger than Turbo Achilles, though I also seem to have gotten weak Turbo Achilles molds so I'm sort of considering this as bad luck on my part.
Xtend+ is a totally different beast from Xtend altogether, with absolutely no functional similarities short of rotating a little to change modes and slight height changes. They're otherwise as different as night and day functionally and performance-wise.
' drivers are similarly not the same sort of beast either, and given the altogether necessary bans on the likes of Accel', Blow', Zephyr', Destroy', and Assault' in Burst Classic I'm totally fine with ' variants being banned if they provide too much of an advantage on any specific shape. In this case I feel like Destroy' is way too safe for an equalizer or moderate attacker, so the ban is plenty warranted here.
Though it's still the weakest of the Phoenixes, Imperfect Phoenix does pretty directly powercreep the Hasbro Phoenixes, and I'm not sure the God layer system is really going to handle that bulk well enough. The weight's not as bad with everything else on the Cho-Z whitelist, which all have some offensive presence to them, but I don't think that much is going to be very effective for penetrating a TT Imperfect Phoenix very effectively.
Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion]
![[Image: rsz-yishyash.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/PJ6QZ6gh/rsz-yishyash.png)
The format is still experimental! We will be tweaking it based on testing and the results of tournaments. Classic was experimental for many months before becoming a ranked format.
If I may ask, does "Kerbeus K4" refer to Guardian K4 or Hazard K4?
I couldn’t find if level chips are allowed on the unbanned Cho-Z beys. I doubt they are but I just want to make sure
They're allowed, but they fall under the "one per deck" rule alongside MGCs.
Interesting format. Glad to see some Cho-Z layers allowed like zA and bL (those are two I've advocated for myself). I think the banlist for drivers and discs was pretty sensible (Destroy' would just be a LAD tool; welcome to 0/10, 00, Outer meta). I hope tornado stall dash drivers don't get banned, nor does Generate (otherwise there's not really any meta for those parts to be played in, and they're fun to use).
The layer banlist seems kind of concerning to me. It sucks that Spriggan Requiem in right spin isn't allowed (I'll probably do testing for that). For a format balanced around god layers, it feels the format is balanced around a level of play just a bit higher than that with Buster Xcalibur, Geist Fafnir, Maximum Garuda, and a lax Hasbro banlist (I was expecting Rise layers to be banned and a banlist on Turbo layers). For example, I think Drain Fafnir.Outer.Eternal would probably be a standard TT combo for LAD, and I feel like Salamander S4.Outer.Eternal-S would just be a straight upgrade to that. Left Apollos, Right Artemis, and Hazard Kerbeus seem like edge cases like the God Layers for Burst Classic.
Hopefully the formats gets ironed out and down a bit; I'd like to be able to viably use Legend Spriggan since I've got a spicy combo for that (insane upper attack and a tall driver, what could go wrong?). Looking forward to developments as they come.
The layer banlist seems kind of concerning to me. It sucks that Spriggan Requiem in right spin isn't allowed (I'll probably do testing for that). For a format balanced around god layers, it feels the format is balanced around a level of play just a bit higher than that with Buster Xcalibur, Geist Fafnir, Maximum Garuda, and a lax Hasbro banlist (I was expecting Rise layers to be banned and a banlist on Turbo layers). For example, I think Drain Fafnir.Outer.Eternal would probably be a standard TT combo for LAD, and I feel like Salamander S4.Outer.Eternal-S would just be a straight upgrade to that. Left Apollos, Right Artemis, and Hazard Kerbeus seem like edge cases like the God Layers for Burst Classic.
Hopefully the formats gets ironed out and down a bit; I'd like to be able to viably use Legend Spriggan since I've got a spicy combo for that (insane upper attack and a tall driver, what could go wrong?). Looking forward to developments as they come.
Great work with this, everyone! I'm excited to see the discussion this produces in the community, to see the format evolve as this experimental phase gets underway, and to eventually play it myself.
![[Image: beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/VLksgt2k/beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg)
(Jun. 30, 2020 2:44 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Interesting format. Glad to see some Cho-Z layers allowed like zA and bL (those are two I've advocated for myself). I think the banlist for drivers and discs was pretty sensible (Destroy' would just be a LAD tool; welcome to 0/10, 00, Outer meta). I hope tornado stall dash drivers don't get banned, nor does Generate (otherwise there's not really any meta for those parts to be played in, and they're fun to use).Don't worry, we're still experimenting with the ban list and stuff. We may see some rise things banned in the future. Also, just to let you know, Salamander S4 is literally hot garbage and is really bad. It's one of the worse layers in the game. Also, I don't know if outer Et will be too good, maybe. There are plenty better options for both brands to use.
The layer banlist seems kind of concerning to me. It sucks that Spriggan Requiem in right spin isn't allowed (I'll probably do testing for that). For a format balanced around god layers, it feels the format is balanced around a level of play just a bit higher than that with Buster Xcalibur, Geist Fafnir, Maximum Garuda, and a lax Hasbro banlist (I was expecting Rise layers to be banned and a banlist on Turbo layers). For example, I think Drain Fafnir.Outer.Eternal would probably be a standard TT combo for LAD, and I feel like Salamander S4.Outer.Eternal-S would just be a straight upgrade to that. Left Apollos, Right Artemis, and Hazard Kerbeus seem like edge cases like the God Layers for Burst Classic.
Hopefully the formats gets ironed out and down a bit; I'd like to be able to viably use Legend Spriggan since I've got a spicy combo for that (insane upper attack and a tall driver, what could go wrong?). Looking forward to developments as they come.
(Jun. 30, 2020 4:31 PM)bladekid Wrote: Don't worry, we're still experimenting with the ban list and stuff. We may see some rise things banned in the future. Also, just to let you know, Salamander S4 is literally hot garbage and is really bad. It's one of the worse layers in the game. Also, I don't know if outer Et will be too good, maybe. There are plenty better options for both brands to use.
I mean yeah of course the banlist is going to get work. Just right now I see Geist Fafnir as something none of the god attack layers can beat and Buster Xalibur as something that outclasses all of the god attack layers. I though the Hasbro banlist is what was holding the format up from being revealed, so the lack of things on that end are a bit surprising.
I did not expect Salamander S4 to be bad. I would have expected the better defensive shape to make it an improvement over Drain Fafnir. Outer Eternal is what came to mind for LAD options outside of Bearing, though I guess there is also non-dash Destroy (people used that back in aH-hS-rP format).
(Jun. 30, 2020 6:51 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote:We'll have to see about geist and buster, I feel that we need really good attack beys to not stale the meta. If anything the attack beys should be a bit stronger than everything else since they require a lot of skill and risk to use them effectively. What I know is that things like HasBr and tV3 were in debate on the Hasbro side but I'm not sure what else. Also I thought S4 was gonna be like a left spin H4 (kinda like TT hS was basically a left spin aH) but that's not the case. S4 is super hollow and light and it can't keep spin for very long. It needs to have either weight or an absorbent shape to equalize properly, but it has neither. Like it's bottom tier on my tier list for a reason, it loses to things like V4 in opposite spin and it really just is bad overall. One plus side though is that since it's so light (iirc it's around 9 or 10 grams) it stays up easier on 00W.Dm-S and can work nearly as effectively (but still less effectively of course). If it was as solidly made as H4 (by that I mean less hollow) it would probably be as effective as drain fafnir and maybe even better.(Jun. 30, 2020 4:31 PM)bladekid Wrote: Don't worry, we're still experimenting with the ban list and stuff. We may see some rise things banned in the future. Also, just to let you know, Salamander S4 is literally hot garbage and is really bad. It's one of the worse layers in the game. Also, I don't know if outer Et will be too good, maybe. There are plenty better options for both brands to use.
I mean yeah of course the banlist is going to get work. Just right now I see Geist Fafnir as something none of the god attack layers can beat and Buster Xalibur as something that outclasses all of the god attack layers. I though the Hasbro banlist is what was holding the format up from being revealed, so the lack of things on that end are a bit surprising.
I did not expect Salamander S4 to be bad. I would have expected the better defensive shape to make it an improvement over Drain Fafnir. Outer Eternal is what came to mind for LAD options outside of Bearing, though I guess there is also non-dash Destroy (people used that back in aH-hS-rP format).
(Jun. 30, 2020 7:08 PM)bladekid Wrote:(Jun. 30, 2020 6:51 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: I mean yeah of course the banlist is going to get work. Just right now I see Geist Fafnir as something none of the god attack layers can beat and Buster Xalibur as something that outclasses all of the god attack layers. I though the Hasbro banlist is what was holding the format up from being revealed, so the lack of things on that end are a bit surprising.We'll have to see about geist and buster, I feel that we need really good attack beys to not stale the meta. If anything the attack beys should be a bit stronger than everything else since they require a lot of skill and risk to use them effectively. What I know is that things like HasBr and tV3 were in debate on the Hasbro side but I'm not sure what else. Also I thought S4 was gonna be like a left spin H4 (kinda like TT hS was basically a left spin aH) but that's not the case. S4 is super hollow and light and it can't keep spin for very long. It needs to have either weight or an absorbent shape to equalize properly, but it has neither. Like it's bottom tier on my tier list for a reason, it loses to things like V4 in opposite spin and it really just is bad overall. One plus side though is that since it's so light (iirc it's around 9 or 10 grams) it stays up easier on 00W.Dm-S and can work nearly as effectively (but still less effectively of course). If it was as solidly made as H4 (by that I mean less hollow) it would probably be as effective as drain fafnir and maybe even better.
I did not expect Salamander S4 to be bad. I would have expected the better defensive shape to make it an improvement over Drain Fafnir. Outer Eternal is what came to mind for LAD options outside of Bearing, though I guess there is also non-dash Destroy (people used that back in aH-hS-rP format).
I think sX, lS, and tN are fine variety and power for attack as far as TT layers go. Excluding Hasbro layers, the only way I could see defense getting powercrept to where attack would need buffs is either the Cho-Z layers being allowed (specifically gF) or tight, A-mold god chips that make its opponents difficult to burst.
My general opinion about the format is that it should stay close to being balanced around God Layers, so I'm very skeptical of powercreep in this. I see bX and gF as very large improvements over god layers.
EDIT: Also the introduction of dash drivers, like in classic, is already a buff to attack in the format. It is especially helpful for Legend Spriggan.
(Jun. 30, 2020 7:39 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote:I totally get that, but personally, again, I think that with things like mG and iP4, attack needs a bit of a buff. bX (and tV3 for Hasbro) is that buff that it needs. Like I would say that attack has to be superior because it needs to have a good risk reward ration to make people want to play attack. There is way too many things that that can just kinda invalidate attack while still being safe to use without bX, things like Z3, mG, and H4. I also don't really see gF as that good, L3 kinda deletes left spin stamina types and geist was never very good to begin with so I'm not worried. Again though, if these things prove to be a problem, we will discuss banning them, but for now it seems fine.(Jun. 30, 2020 7:08 PM)bladekid Wrote: We'll have to see about geist and buster, I feel that we need really good attack beys to not stale the meta. If anything the attack beys should be a bit stronger than everything else since they require a lot of skill and risk to use them effectively. What I know is that things like HasBr and tV3 were in debate on the Hasbro side but I'm not sure what else. Also I thought S4 was gonna be like a left spin H4 (kinda like TT hS was basically a left spin aH) but that's not the case. S4 is super hollow and light and it can't keep spin for very long. It needs to have either weight or an absorbent shape to equalize properly, but it has neither. Like it's bottom tier on my tier list for a reason, it loses to things like V4 in opposite spin and it really just is bad overall. One plus side though is that since it's so light (iirc it's around 9 or 10 grams) it stays up easier on 00W.Dm-S and can work nearly as effectively (but still less effectively of course). If it was as solidly made as H4 (by that I mean less hollow) it would probably be as effective as drain fafnir and maybe even better.
I think sX, lS, and tN are fine variety and power for attack as far as TT layers go. Excluding Hasbro layers, the only way I could see defense getting powercrept to where attack would need buffs is either the Cho-Z layers being allowed (specifically gF) or tight, A-mold god chips that make its opponents difficult to burst.
My general opinion about the format is that it should stay close to being balanced around God Layers, so I'm very skeptical of powercreep in this. I see bX and gF as very large improvements over god layers.
EDIT: Also the introduction of dash drivers, like in classic, is already a buff to attack in the format. It is especially helpful for Legend Spriggan.
(Jun. 30, 2020 9:28 PM)bladekid Wrote:(Jun. 30, 2020 7:39 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: I think sX, lS, and tN are fine variety and power for attack as far as TT layers go. Excluding Hasbro layers, the only way I could see defense getting powercrept to where attack would need buffs is either the Cho-Z layers being allowed (specifically gF) or tight, A-mold god chips that make its opponents difficult to burst.I totally get that, but personally, again, I think that with things like mG and iP4, attack needs a bit of a buff. bX (and tV3 for Hasbro) is that buff that it needs. Like I would say that attack has to be superior because it needs to have a good risk reward ration to make people want to play attack. There is way too many things that that can just kinda invalidate attack while still being safe to use without bX, things like Z3, mG, and H4. I also don't really see gF as that good, L3 kinda deletes left spin stamina types and geist was never very good to begin with so I'm not worried. Again though, if these things prove to be a problem, we will discuss banning them, but for now it seems fine.
My general opinion about the format is that it should stay close to being balanced around God Layers, so I'm very skeptical of powercreep in this. I see bX and gF as very large improvements over god layers.
EDIT: Also the introduction of dash drivers, like in classic, is already a buff to attack in the format. It is especially helpful for Legend Spriggan.
Considering mG was banned during God for being better than most God layers and this is a format balanced around God layers, we should probably ban mG instead of powercreeping the format. That's been my stance: "Keep this a God layer format." (I'm not actually trying to say "Ban it right now" and get the obvious response of "then do testing." Obviously the layer needs testing vs the last of the god releases, relevant attack layers now that dash drivers exist, zA, bL, and both Amaterios. I'm just saying that powercreep is a bad direction for the format.)
I know gF is deleted by nL/L3, but so is dF deleted by nL/L3. My worry is about how much of an improvement it is against right spin beys. Which I'm going to test right now.
(Jun. 30, 2020 11:21 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote:There's only a couple things that are really better than the top tier god stuff. Imo mG may be stretching it and same with gF, but we'll have to see. With mG, it's definitely counterable and for the time it was OP, but again, it is not gonna be that OP imo.(Jun. 30, 2020 9:28 PM)bladekid Wrote: I totally get that, but personally, again, I think that with things like mG and iP4, attack needs a bit of a buff. bX (and tV3 for Hasbro) is that buff that it needs. Like I would say that attack has to be superior because it needs to have a good risk reward ration to make people want to play attack. There is way too many things that that can just kinda invalidate attack while still being safe to use without bX, things like Z3, mG, and H4. I also don't really see gF as that good, L3 kinda deletes left spin stamina types and geist was never very good to begin with so I'm not worried. Again though, if these things prove to be a problem, we will discuss banning them, but for now it seems fine.
Considering mG was banned during God for being better than most God layers and this is a format balanced around God layers, we should probably ban mG instead of powercreeping the format. That's been my stance: "Keep this a God layer format." (I'm not actually trying to say "Ban it right now" and get the obvious response of "then do testing." Obviously the layer needs testing vs the last of the god releases, relevant attack layers now that dash drivers exist, zA, bL, and both Amaterios. I'm just saying that powercreep is a bad direction for the format.)
I know gF is deleted by nL/L3, but so is dF deleted by nL/L3. My worry is about how much of an improvement it is against right spin beys. Which I'm going to test right now.
(Jun. 30, 2020 11:21 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Considering mG was banned during God for being better than most God layers and this is a format balanced around God layers, we should probably ban mG instead of powercreeping the format. That's been my stance: "Keep this a God layer format." (I'm not actually trying to say "Ban it right now" and get the obvious response of "then do testing." Obviously the layer needs testing vs the last of the god releases, relevant attack layers now that dash drivers exist, zA, bL, and both Amaterios. I'm just saying that powercreep is a bad direction for the format.)
Maximum Garuda TT isn’t very good. Any attack type can easily burst it, and from my own testing, still bursts against defense combos and even sometimes stamina combos. Definitely not ban worthy by any means.
![[Image: 88-E6-FCCC-E8-AF-48-FB-A3-F2-32-E31-D8-DDA09.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/q7DDdNkV/88-E6-FCCC-E8-AF-48-FB-A3-F2-32-E31-D8-DDA09.jpg)
![[Image: 84-CB9286-C306-4-D2-D-B3-E2-CD380-EA5-E132.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/sgfQnGSM/84-CB9286-C306-4-D2-D-B3-E2-CD380-EA5-E132.jpg)
(Jun. 30, 2020 11:38 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:(Jun. 30, 2020 11:21 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Considering mG was banned during God for being better than most God layers and this is a format balanced around God layers, we should probably ban mG instead of powercreeping the format. That's been my stance: "Keep this a God layer format." (I'm not actually trying to say "Ban it right now" and get the obvious response of "then do testing." Obviously the layer needs testing vs the last of the god releases, relevant attack layers now that dash drivers exist, zA, bL, and both Amaterios. I'm just saying that powercreep is a bad direction for the format.)
Maximum Garuda TT isn’t very good. Any attack type can easily burst it, and from my own testing, still bursts against defense combos and even sometimes stamina combos. Definitely not ban worthy by any means.
I'm not saying Maximum Garuda specifically. I'm saying any layer that would warrant the format to be powercrept shouldn't be in. Its just a statement about design philosophy. Obviously we can test to see where mG lies.
Is Air Knight A Lited beyblade
Limited I mean
Limited I mean
(Jun. 30, 2020 11:38 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:That reminds me, I just recently got TT Garuda and I need to test it's burst resistance now that it's legal. I wasn't sure, but for now I'll take your, and the balancing teams opinion that it should be legal.(Jun. 30, 2020 11:21 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: Considering mG was banned during God for being better than most God layers and this is a format balanced around God layers, we should probably ban mG instead of powercreeping the format. That's been my stance: "Keep this a God layer format." (I'm not actually trying to say "Ban it right now" and get the obvious response of "then do testing." Obviously the layer needs testing vs the last of the god releases, relevant attack layers now that dash drivers exist, zA, bL, and both Amaterios. I'm just saying that powercreep is a bad direction for the format.)
Maximum Garuda TT isn’t very good. Any attack type can easily burst it, and from my own testing, still bursts against defense combos and even sometimes stamina combos. Definitely not ban worthy by any means.
Is turbo Valtryek V3 allowed?
![[Image: Screen-Shot-2023-09-27-at-6-46-58-PM.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/1XQssy2p/Screen-Shot-2023-09-27-at-6-46-58-PM.png)