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+---- Thread: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] (/Thread-Announcing-Burst-Limited-New-Format-Feedback-Discussion)
Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - The Supreme One - Jun. 28, 2020
Hey World Bladers!
We've been reasonably quiet regarding some of our recent developments in this area but, after extensive discussion between the Organized Play team, we're finally ready to share our plan for the long-awaited Burst Limited format!
As you may have guessed, Burst Limited serves as a middle ground between the modern Standard format and our old-school Classic format, with the goal of evolving into a ranked format over time. Burst Limited is balanced around the 2017/18 God Layer System era of Beyblade, featuring a number of balanced inclusions & removals from that period, and permitting newer Hasbro Layers that tend to be lumped into this performance class by popular community opinion.
In order to provide development feedback to help perfect the ruleset, this format is now available for all Organizers to host unranked experimental events.
CONTEXT
For our Burst Limited format, we've been very careful to balance simplicity and accessibility. Do we dive deep into Cho-Z and GT? Do we make the format God-only? The popular consensus - and the one that we hinted at - was that we would aim for a format balanced around the God Layer System with some exceptions, and that's exactly what we've chosen to do here. Except, perhaps not for the reasons you'd expect.
While we did experiment with a few different balancing points, we ultimately settled on an adjusted God Layer System for a few reasons:
- The weight class of God Layers is on par with all modern Hasbro releases, thus making many of these products extremely viable and accessible in Limited format.
- Settling for systems later than this would rule out far more parts than it makes available, as seen in Burst Classic (though we all love the format!).
- Setting aside certain problematic releases, the God Layer System is regarded by many as one of the most balanced, diverse and progressive eras of Beyblade Burst.
Plus, while we aren't aiming for a format balanced around Takara-Tomy's Cho-Z line, we've managed to include a few specific releases like Z Achilles and Shadow Amaterios which, after some testing, we believe will contribute to the balance of Burst Limited and offer more options for older collectors.
Like any experimental format, Burst Limited won't be perfect out the gate, and we're seeking your input to help finalize our banlist. We're looking for testing on parts we've included, parts we've potentially missed, and even parts that have just been released. Between our new Burst Limited Customizations sub-forum and this thread, we welcome all input on our exciting new format!
So what are you waiting for? Come help us develop the best ruleset we can for Burst Limited!
RULE OVERVIEW
Rules
- During the preliminary stage:
- BF: 1pt | KO: 1pt | OS: 1pt
- BF: 1pt | KO: 1pt | OS: 1pt
- During Deck Format Finals:
- BF: 2pt | KO: 1pt | OS: 1pt
- One Metal God Chip or Level Chip per deck.
- BF: 2pt | KO: 1pt | OS: 1pt
- Maximum Garuda must be used with its stock God Chip or a Metal God Chip.
- Spriggan/Spryzen Requiem
- Garuda G3
- Balkesh B3
- Kerbeus K4
- Turbo Achilles A4
- Turbo Spryzen S4
- Lightning L-Drago
- Storm Pegasis
- Burn Phoenix
- All Cho-Z Layer System Layers, except:
- Bloody Longinus
- Buster Xcalibur
- Geist Fafnir
- Hazard Kerbeus
- Shining/Shadow Amaterios
- Z Achilles
- Left/Right Artemis/Apollos/Aeclipse
- Bloody Longinus
- All Takara Tomy GaTinko & Sparking Layer System Layers, except:
- Ace
- Rock
- Grand
- Slash
- Venom
- Erase
- Union (Speed Mode Only)
- All Gatinko Chips except Diabolos are allowed, and Gen layer weight must be used.
- Ace
- All Disks released as part of the Takara Tomy GaTinko & Sparking Layer System.
- All Hasbro Pro Series System Disks, unless the Takara Tomy counterpart is allowed.
- Bearing (Hasbro only)
- Hybrid
- Ignition'
- Xtend+
- All Hypersphere Drivers
FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
While the following parts are currently permitted, we're keeping a close eye on these as we fear they may become problematic:
- Archer Hercules H4
- Atomic-S
- Generate
- Shining/Shadow Amaterios
CHANGE LOG
- June 28, 2020 - Initial Revision.
- August 10, 2020 - Ds' removed from ban list. Updates made to "Future Considerations."
- April 5, 2021 - List updated to reflect unbanning of specific GT layers and banning of all Hasbro Pro Series System disks.
EVENT ARCHIVE
- July 11, 2020 - ChoZ Bladers Choose Limited [Maryland, U.S.]
- August 1, 2020 - Limited Time Offer [Pennsylvania, U.S.]
- September 13, 2020 - Justin Thunder Cloud's Skateboarding Adventure [Toronto, C.A.]
- April 17, 2021 - Saturdays Are for the Beys [Maryland, U.S.]
- May 30, 2021 - LA Burst Limited #1 [California, U.S.]
- June 20, 2021 - KICKing Things Back Into Gear! [Texas, U.S.]
- July 4, 2021 - HIGH PARK THROWDOWN 12 (Burst Limited) [Toronto, C.A.]
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - BuilderROB - Jun. 28, 2020
I am very excited to finally see this format come into play. I’d love to try this format out as an unranked event possibly and see what people use. This format will definitely be one of the most interesting ones.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - gamingthree - Jun. 28, 2020
ooo i wanna try this, there are some combos i have in mind already that might work well
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - Atlas Requiem - Jun. 28, 2020
It's great to see this format finally become a thing. The ban list also seems thought out. It'll definitely be interesting to see how future tournaments innovate this ruleset.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - Stream_sniper6 - Jun. 28, 2020
God Layer was one of the coolest eras of Beyblade. Change my mind. I really love the fact that it’s so well balanced. Really nice!
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - CheetoBlader - Jun. 28, 2020
I like the idea of the format, and I like most of the ban list, but I don’t think all HyperSphere drivers should be banned. Bullet I-H is the only one that I see is broken.
But, I still love the format, and would definitely participate in one. I’m not hosting one until I know that it won’t be filled with fakes, or banned things. It just sounds stressful, especially with Classic painting a picture for that.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - snoc - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:49 PM)Stream_sniper6 Wrote: God Layer was one of the coolest eras of Beyblade. Change my mind. I really love the fact that it’s so well balanced. Really nice!
you're not wrong, definitely one of the best seasons of all of beyblade. SUper excited for this format!
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MagikHorse - Jun. 28, 2020
This format feels like Hasbro Only + TT God, which is fine by me really. Adds a ton of spice to the mix and lets us see the best of both sides in an environment that altogether looks to be super balanced and exciting for all comers. I'm looking forward to this sometime.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - HakaishinLDrago - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:54 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: This format feels like Hasbro Only + TT God, which is fine by me really. Adds a ton of spice to the mix and lets us see the best of both sides in an environment that altogether looks to be super balanced and exciting for all comers. I'm looking forward to this sometime.
Honestly to me this just feels like a remake/reboot of the classic format but won't know till we see battles.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MagikHorse - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:53 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: I like the idea of the format, and I like most of the ban list, but I don’t think all HyperSphere drivers should be banned. Bullet I-H is the only one that I see is broken.
Trust me, it's not the only one.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - -Fireblaze- - Jun. 28, 2020
This would make for a very interesting format! I can't wait to participate. I love being challenged
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MDK Shady - Jun. 28, 2020
By Kerbeus K4 does it mean the hasbro version of guardian kerbeus of hazard kerbeus?
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - CheetoBlader - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 11:08 PM)MDK Shady Wrote: By Kerbeus K4 does it mean the hasbro version of guardian kerbeus of hazard kerbeus?
Guardian Kerbeus K4.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MDK Shady - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 11:08 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote:(Jun. 28, 2020 11:08 PM)MDK Shady Wrote: By Kerbeus K4 does it mean the hasbro version of guardian kerbeus of hazard kerbeus?
Guardian Kerbeus K4.
Ok thanks for clarifying
Although I have hypersphere beys, I haven’t really used them in TT stadiums, are the tips really that broken?
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - ~Mana~ - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:53 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: I like the idea of the format, and I like most of the ban list, but I don’t think all HyperSphere drivers should be banned. Bullet I-H is the only one that I see is broken.
We can only recommend testing them if you don't think it's a fair judgement! However, from our internal experiences, we feel that they may be a bit too potent and are better off removed from the format.
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:54 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: This format feels like Hasbro Only + TT God, which is fine by me really. Adds a ton of spice to the mix and lets us see the best of both sides in an environment that altogether looks to be super balanced and exciting for all comers. I'm looking forward to this sometime.
It's an interesting observation, haha. I think when you try the matchups, you'll be surprised at how well balanced the format is for TT and Hasbro overall. All Hasbro releases have been kept very much in the weight class of God/Evolution, so both sides have plenty of toys to play around with, especially with TT keeping some Cho-Z and Hasbro having near full-access to a modern catalogue of parts.
Play around with some matchups and see what you discover!
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:57 PM)HakaishinLDrago Wrote: Honestly to me this just feels like a remake/reboot of the classic format but won't know till we see battles.
Classic was pretty much a Limited format with a very specific goal in mind. I wouldn't say this is a reboot or remake of Classic persay, but it's a restrictive format of the same nature, yes.
(Jun. 28, 2020 11:08 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote:(Jun. 28, 2020 11:08 PM)MDK Shady Wrote: By Kerbeus K4 does it mean the hasbro version of guardian kerbeus of hazard kerbeus?
Guardian Kerbeus K4.
Technically the part is just called "Kerbeus K4". We've just been super picky and used exact Hasbro names here.
Blame Hasbro if it's confusing, haha. There's just no better way of putting it without calling it something it isn't.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MrBlade - Jun. 28, 2020
This is gonna be great I'm gonna try and do one of these tournaments though I might need to find a different venue for now.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - CheetoBlader - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 11:22 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:I cannot test them due to the fact that I do not own them. I made my statement based on other’s testing.(Jun. 28, 2020 10:53 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: I like the idea of the format, and I like most of the ban list, but I don’t think all HyperSphere drivers should be banned. Bullet I-H is the only one that I see is broken.We can only recommend testing them if you don't think it's a fair judgement! However, from our internal experiences, we feel that they may be a bit too potent and are better off removed from the format.
(Jun. 28, 2020 11:08 PM)CheetoBlader Wrote: Guardian Kerbeus K4.
Technically the part is just called "Kerbeus K4". We've just been super picky and used exact Hasbro names here.
Blame Hasbro if it's confusing, haha. There's just no better way of putting it without calling it something it isn't.
Also, I was just adding the prefix to it to clarify as his/her question was about the K4 part.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - Friedpasta - Jun. 28, 2020
imo hasbro guardian kerbeus is low key one of the best slingshock beys, I've even seen it put up a really good fight against turbo spryzen s4 in my testing
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MagikHorse - Jun. 28, 2020
(Jun. 28, 2020 10:57 PM)HakaishinLDrago Wrote:(Jun. 28, 2020 10:54 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: This format feels like Hasbro Only + TT God, which is fine by me really. Adds a ton of spice to the mix and lets us see the best of both sides in an environment that altogether looks to be super balanced and exciting for all comers. I'm looking forward to this sometime.
Honestly to me this just feels like a remake/reboot of the classic format but won't know till we see battles.
I get where you're coming from, but I don't really agree. God has a different feel than Burst Classic does, as God layers aren't quite so burst prone and there's a whole different dynamic with core disks and frames compared to all the basic lettered disks of the basic/dual layer era.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - BladerJayCraft - Jun. 29, 2020
Are Metal Fight Remake and Plastic remakes allowed?
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 29, 2020
I'm surprised that some Cho-Z Layers are being allowed, but I guess those really were the worst of them all. Also, is TT Imperfect Phoenix banned because of the Driver options, metal, or some other reason?
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - bladekid - Jun. 29, 2020
I'm glad that tV3 is legal and that hasBr and Xt+ are banned. Thanks guys. This is the best format.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MagikHorse - Jun. 29, 2020
(Jun. 29, 2020 12:31 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: I'm surprised that some Cho-Z Layers are being allowed, but I guess those really were the worst of them all. Also, is TT Imperfect Phoenix banned because of the Driver options, metal, or some other reason?
It'd be weird to allow it and not any of the other Phoenixes even if it was fine from a balance standpoint, and the others are clearly way too good.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 29, 2020
(Jun. 29, 2020 12:54 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Jun. 29, 2020 12:31 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: I'm surprised that some Cho-Z Layers are being allowed, but I guess those really were the worst of them all. Also, is TT Imperfect Phoenix banned because of the Driver options, metal, or some other reason?
It'd be weird to allow it and not any of the other Phoenixes even if it was fine from a balance standpoint, and the others are clearly way too good.
Technically, one could say the same about Turbo Valtryek being allowed or alternate versions of Drivers like Xtend and Destroy, so I don't think that's a truly valid reason. I'm pretty sure the Cho-Z Beys that are allowed in Limited are just the ones that were always outclassed, and Imperfect Phoenix certainly falls into that category. It could also be an alternative for Hasbro iP4 that's heavier and more unstable with more Driver options.
RE: Announcing Burst Limited [New Format Feedback & Discussion] - MagikHorse - Jun. 29, 2020
(Jun. 29, 2020 1:10 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote:(Jun. 29, 2020 12:54 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: It'd be weird to allow it and not any of the other Phoenixes even if it was fine from a balance standpoint, and the others are clearly way too good.
Technically, one could say the same about Turbo Valtryek being allowed or alternate versions of Drivers like Xtend and Destroy, so I don't think that's a truly valid reason. I'm pretty sure the Cho-Z Beys that are allowed in Limited are just the ones that were always outclassed, and Imperfect Phoenix certainly falls into that category. It could also be an alternative for Hasbro iP4 that's heavier and more unstable with more Driver options.
I don't understand the Turbo Valtryek thing myself to be honest. I've always considered Turbo Valtryek to be stronger than Turbo Achilles, though I also seem to have gotten weak Turbo Achilles molds so I'm sort of considering this as bad luck on my part.
Xtend+ is a totally different beast from Xtend altogether, with absolutely no functional similarities short of rotating a little to change modes and slight height changes. They're otherwise as different as night and day functionally and performance-wise.
' drivers are similarly not the same sort of beast either, and given the altogether necessary bans on the likes of Accel', Blow', Zephyr', Destroy', and Assault' in Burst Classic I'm totally fine with ' variants being banned if they provide too much of an advantage on any specific shape. In this case I feel like Destroy' is way too safe for an equalizer or moderate attacker, so the ban is plenty warranted here.
Though it's still the weakest of the Phoenixes, Imperfect Phoenix does pretty directly powercreep the Hasbro Phoenixes, and I'm not sure the God layer system is really going to handle that bulk well enough. The weight's not as bad with everything else on the Cho-Z whitelist, which all have some offensive presence to them, but I don't think that much is going to be very effective for penetrating a TT Imperfect Phoenix very effectively.