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Competitive Zero-G Combos [List not final]

Jun. 12, 2013  9:54 PM
 
So, *Ginga* and others have been working on a "Zero G Developmental Top Tier Outline" for a while now, and they think they've finalized an accurate enough list for us to consider. Let me know what you think:

(Oct. 29, 2012  10:32 PM)*Ginga* Wrote:
Zero G Developmental Top Tier Outline


I think that now we are starting to get more and more tournament results, an testing (but we need more of that), we need to start a tier list.

I must implore all of you to please be intelligent about what you post in here. If you are going to propose a brand new custom, you will have to provide actual test and/or tournament results to back your claim up. If there is something that isn't on the list that obviously should be (for example, it is clear E230 and Reviser Reviser should be added for defense) or there is something that you don't think should be on the list anymore, please still provide as much insight into your suggestions as possible.



Smash Attack

MSF/MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang W145/160 R2F/RF/XF
MSF/MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165 R2F/RF/XF

Zero-G Attack (Sway)

MSF/MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang E230/SA165/SP230 GCF/GF/CF
MSF/MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165 CF/GF/GCF
MSF/MSF-H Girago/Wyvang Dragooon F230 CF/GCF

Defense

MSF-H Revizer Revizer E230 RS/RB

Sway Defense (Zero-G Defense anyone?)

MSF-H Revizer Revizer E230 BSF/MB/TB/RSF/RS

Stamina

Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Aquario SA165 BWD/EWD
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Aquario W145 EWD/BWD
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Aquario SR200 TB
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Aquario B:D
Genbull Genbull SR200TB/CS

Spin Stealers

MSF-H Killerken/Revizer Dragooon B:D
MSF-H Killerken/Revizer Dragooon SA165 BWD

Balance

MF-H Duo Cancer/Aquario/Cygnus F230 CF
MSF/MSF-H Genbull Genbull F230 CF
MSF/MSF-H Girago/Wyvang Dragooon F230 CF/GCF

My comments:
- Revizer on MSF/MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165 CF/GF/GCF should be replaced with Wyvang, and maybe some other Wheels. Wyvang in particular makes sense because it is heavier and more aggressive than Reviser. Just because this combo's primary goal is to Sway KO doesn't mean that it should abandon any form of effective physical Attack by using Reviser. And besides, the heavier weight of Wyvang helps to enhance its potential to sway the stadium.

- Bahamdia, though it is primarily a Smash Attack Chrome Wheel, probably deserves a spot on a Sway Attack custom. It can be useful to combine both Sway Attack and Smash Attack sometimes.

- Using Reviser Reviser for Defense is not wise, in my opinion. The Stamina is just too poor; I find that Killerken Reviser has just as much Defense, in addition to a more acceptable level of Stamina.

- Personally, I would specify that E230 for Defense should be used in "Upper Mode".

- And just a few questions:
As I have no experience with it, can someone briefly explain to me the advantages of SR200TB?

And why is Girago on MSF/MSF-H Girago/Wyvang Dragooon F230 CF/GCF? Is there any specific reason? Genbull would also work on this custom, in my opinion. Anybody who is reading this and doesn't have access to the forum, feel free to PM me an answer. Also, it may just be a mistake, but there is no reason for MSF/MSF-H Girago/Wyvang Dragooon F230 CF/GCF to be listed under both "Zero-G Attack (Sway)" and "Balance" at the same time. Balance seems like a fine place for it.
Jun. 12, 2013  10:10 PM
 
Since I have been out for a little while, the only thing I can give you and educated answer on is the SR200TB question.

It has exceptional stamina, and TB resist sway fairly well. I personally posted a thread on Genbull x2 SR200TB/CS in the BB-10, and shortly after Blitz used it successfully in a Zero-G tournament. I PMed him about it, and he said it did really well. He can probably give you more insight as far as its performance in the Zero-G stadium since he has actually used it. For the CS version, I believe that would be more for the BB-10, but I don't know for sure cause I have not tried that in the Zero-G stadium.

I can't believe they don't have Revizer/Genbull Genbull SA165(normal)W2D up there. I thought I saw that was being used a lot.

Small side note: (Click to View)

EDIT: Thunder Dome PMed me and cleared some things up on the Revizer/Genbull Genbull SA165W2D combo.
Thunder Dome Wrote:
KainHighwind Wrote:I can't believe they don't have Revizer/Genbull Genbull SA165(normal)W2D up there. I thought I saw that was being used a lot.
The only people using it (from what I know) was stormscorpio1, myself and Bazooka (Bazooka didnt use it much) and not many people tested it. The other thing depends on how worn your W2D is. Not many know that but with a W2D a little more worn than a normal one it has a better chance (and can) OS Dragooon BD. So because not many used it or tested it the idea didn't get very far. All though you would think more would use it since stormscorpio1 used it in ALL of his matches in RTV 2 and RTV 3 and had no loses using it. In one of those events he did come close to losing, but got lucky. It's real weakness is sway attack. Hope this helps some.
Jun. 18, 2013  7:10 PM
 
(Jun. 12, 2013  10:10 PM)KainHighwind Wrote: Since I have been out for a little while, the only thing I can give you and educated answer on is the SR200TB question.

It has exceptional stamina, and TB resist sway fairly well. I personally posted a thread on Genbull x2 SR200TB/CS in the BB-10, and shortly after Blitz used it successfully in a Zero-G tournament. I PMed him about it, and he said it did really well. He can probably give you more insight as far as its performance in the Zero-G stadium since he has actually used it. For the CS version, I believe that would be more for the BB-10, but I don't know for sure cause I have not tried that in the Zero-G stadium.

I'd be interested in knowing how it performs SA165 Stamina combos, which are arguably the most popular variety right now. Personally, I hate how horrible it's balance is, and have only seen it to be good at OSing F230 combos. I'll ask Blitz to post what he thinks about it.

(Jun. 12, 2013  10:10 PM)KainHighwind Wrote: I can't believe they don't have Revizer/Genbull Genbull SA165(normal)W2D up there. I thought I saw that was being used a lot.

Thunder Dome's explanation is interesting; I've never tested a worn W2D. That's certainly something that needs to be explored further.

(Jun. 12, 2013  10:10 PM)KainHighwind Wrote:
Small side note: (Click to View)

Do you think it would have issues with SA165? I can see something like that doing OK against B:D combos because they are so vulnerable from below, but with all of the taller ZERO-G combos running around, I don't think it would be a smart choice to use anything that low.
Jul. 24, 2013  4:30 PM
 
Any comments on this, guys? If not, I'll put together a "final" official list sometime this week.
Jul. 24, 2013  4:35 PM
 
I can definitely support most of those combinations from my own testing. The only thing I could suggest is that perhaps Girago can totally replace Wyvang if two Wyvang are not available ? It seems just as effective, I think.
Sep. 29, 2013  4:11 AM
 
Surprised no one has bumped this recently. I think its time to have a Zero G Tier List finalized. Here is my list. A few changes have been made. Genbull added to most things with Dragooon along with Genbull Genbull to Defense. Thoughts?

Spoiler (Click to View)
Sep. 30, 2013  12:43 PM
 
Don't have the experience to comment on the list itself, but I think going with Sway Attack and Sway Defense for the zero g type names would be good for consistency and clarity.
Sep. 30, 2013  12:59 PM
 
The actual official name is Zero-G Attack though, so it would only make sense to call the opposite either Zero-G Defense or Zero-G Attack Counter or whatever ...
Sep. 30, 2013  1:12 PM
 
(Sep. 30, 2013  12:59 PM)Kai-V Wrote: The actual official name is Zero-G Attack though, so it would only make sense to call the opposite either Zero-G Defense or Zero-G Attack Counter or whatever ...

Oh, I wasn't aware. Fair enough.
Sep. 30, 2013  1:31 PM
 
I do believe Killerken should be added to anything which combines two Revizer Chrome Wheels .. It balances out the Beyblade, provides a boost in its Stamina accordingly, and is generally a better choice for the combo.

RSF should be added for the Defense customs too.


The Zero-G defense customs:
I think you should get rid of the RS, I never found that it worked well in any of the tall Tracks; kicking it off balance kills it, and the MF seems odd, never thought it had any valuable use in the Zero-G stadium.


By the way, those are my opinions and what I have noticed throughout the tests I've done. I'm not sure about tournaments (I should read the thread ahah).
Oct. 03, 2013  4:43 PM
 
Took off Mf/RS for defense

Added Killerken for defense

What does everyone think? I like it now.
Oct. 03, 2013  7:44 PM
 
Added
revizer Genbull to defense
Genbulll___SA165 TB to stamina(Lots of tournament use. Won a VA tourney with it.)

E230 to Balro Balro for sway attack
Oct. 04, 2013  5:39 AM
 
I can understand MF having value in ZG though I don't have any experience to confirm it. If someone could look into it/see where that came from, it would be nice.
Oct. 06, 2013  4:12 AM
 
Here is my final draft for the tier list. I think it covers everything right now.
(Oct. 06, 2013  4:12 AM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: Here is my final draft for the tier list. I think it covers everything right now.
Spoiler (Click to View)
Oct. 26, 2013  3:04 AM
 
How does everyone feel about my list above? I motion we add an official tier list for Zero G now.
Dec. 04, 2013  8:43 PM
 
So, Limited can get by with having an empty Competitive Customs List thread since it's a new format, but Zero-G can't really justify its barren Competitive List thread since the format has been around for so long! If a consensus has been reached, can we get a final word on the first official Zero-G competitive list?
Dec. 06, 2013  8:42 PM
 
IVe been ready for the last couple months. I think the list that we've compiled is good enough for a tier list. More changes can be made when necessary.
Dec. 20, 2013  11:56 AM
 
Tidied up Dark_Mousy's list, cleaned up the formatting a little (mainly the reviser and killerken bits - which I am pretty sure I got right) and alphabetised the combinations in their sub headings and the parts in their combinations. As long as I did it right, it should be basically copy-paste-able, though Ingulit always makes these lists look nice so he may want to take a shot at the formatting?

Assuming from the 2-3 months without comment no one has any objections, it should be ready to go into the OP and the thread given the appropriate treatment for it to a formal CC list. Does someone want to go nudge Kei?

Spoilered to avoid confusion, reposting on page 2 for sake of making it easier to keep track of. Further updates will be done there. (Click to View)
Those Duo customs in stamina are a pain but with the whole tip specifics that's the only real way to do it without including what I assume would be known non-competitive customs in the list (which we're not doing again, ever).

Oh, is there a reason Hades isn't listed on Duo? I don't know if there's a reason it's not up there so I left it off, but if someone could verify either way?
Dec. 20, 2013  3:40 PM
 
The only other combo I could see Is Genbull Genbull E230 MB, this combo has seen a lot of recent tournament use.
And I simply forgot to put Hades up there.
Dec. 20, 2013  4:00 PM
 
Sway Attack -> Zero-G Attack.

Idem for "Sway Defense".
Dec. 20, 2013  4:20 PM
 
(Dec. 20, 2013  4:00 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Sway Attack -> Zero-G Attack.

Idem for "Sway Defense".

Done, sorry, didn't catch that when I was going through.

(Dec. 20, 2013  3:40 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: The only other combo I could see Is Genbull Genbull E230 MB, this combo has seen a lot of recent tournament use.
And I simply forgot to put Hades up there.

It's recent, which is reason to say we'll just leave discussion on that for a second update and get this thing up before we discuss it further.

Hades is now there.

Here's the draft list as it now stands, seeing as we're on a new page:

(Oct. 06, 2013  4:12 AM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: Smash Attack

MSF/MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165 R2F/RF/XF
MSF/MSF-H Balro Balro W145/160 R2F/RF/XF
MSF/MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang W145/160 R2F/RF/XF


Zero-G Attack

MSF/MSF-H Balro Balro SA165/E230 CF/GCF/GF
MSF/MSF-H Wyvang/Girago Dragooon SA165 CF/GCF/GF
MSF/MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang SA165/E230/SP230 CF/GCF/GF


Defense

MSF-H Killerken Revizer E230 CS/RB/RSF
MSF-H Revizer Revizer/Killerken/Genbull E230 CS/RB/RSF


Zero-G Defense

MSF-H Killerken Revizer E230 BSF/MB/RSF/TB
MSF-H Revizer Revizer/Killerken/Genbull E230 BSF/MB/RSF/TB


Stamina

Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades B:D
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145 BWD/EWD
Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades SA165 BWD/EWD/TB
DuoCancer/Cygnus/Hades SR200 CS/TB
Genbull Genbull TH170/SA165/SR200 CS/TB


Spin Stealers

MSF-H Killerken/Genbull/Revizer Dragooon B:D
MSF-H Killerken/Genbull/Revizer Dragooon SA165 BWD/EWD


Balance

MF-H Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades F230 CF/GCF
MSF/MSF-H Genbull Genbull F230 CF/GCF
MSF/MSF-H/MSF-M Genbull/Girago/Killerken/Revizer/Wyvang Dragooon F230 CF/GCF
Dec. 20, 2013  9:30 PM
 
I like this a lot. I'm ready for it to be posted if everyone else can agree to it.
Dec. 23, 2013  8:18 AM
 
If it helps at all, I've written up a replacement for the first post, assuming the list is acceptable. All that would need to be done is to replace the OP with what's in the code box, remove "[list not final]" from the thread title and make sure smilies are turned off so B:D is shown properly.

Formatting is based off the standard format cc list, without the division by wheel (not really necessary here) and as such the horizontal lines have also been removed (I tried it, it looked bad).

Hopefully that saves some time, but eh, I had a few minutes to kill and this killed them nicely, so job done as far as I'm concerned.

Preview (Click to View)

Code:
This is a list of currently competitive combos in the Zero-G metagame. This topic will be updated as new parts are released. Please post your comments and suggestions (accompanied by valid test results) in the [url=http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MFB-Zero-G-Competitive-Customs-List-and-Public-Discussion]Public Discussion Thread[/url].


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Smash Attack [/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]MSF/MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165 R2F/RF/XF
[*]MSF/MSF-H Balro Balro W145/160 R2F/RF/XF
[*]MSF/MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang W145/160 R2F/RF/XF[/list]


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Zero-G Attack[/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]MSF/MSF-H Balro Balro SA165/E230 CF/GCF/GF
[*]MSF/MSF-H Wyvang/Girago Dragooon SA165 CF/GCF/GF
[*]MSF/MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang SA165/E230/SP230 CF/GCF/GF[/list]


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Defense[/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]MSF-H Killerken Revizer E230 CS/RB/RSF
[*]MSF-H Revizer Revizer/Killerken/Genbull E230 CS/RB/RSF[/list]


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Zero-G Defense[/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]MSF-H Killerken Revizer E230 BSF/MB/RSF/TB
[*]MSF-H Revizer Revizer/Killerken/Genbull E230 BSF/MB/RSF/TB[/list]


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Stamina[/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades B:D
[*]Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades W145 BWD/EWD
[*]Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades SA165 BWD/EWD/TB
[*]Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades SR200 CS/TB
[*]Genbull Genbull TH170/SA165/SR200 CS/TB[/list]


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Spin Stealers[/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]MSF-H Killerken/Genbull/Revizer Dragooon B:D
[*]MSF-H Killerken/Genbull/Revizer Dragooon SA165 BWD/EWD[/list]


[size=large][align=center][u][b]Balance[/b][/u][/align][/size]
[list][*]MF-H Duo Cancer/Cygnus/Hades F230 CF/GCF
[*]MSF/MSF-H Genbull Genbull F230 CF/GCF
[*]MSF/MSF-H/MSF-M Genbull/Girago/Killerken/Revizer/Wyvang Dragooon F230 CF/GCF[/list]


[spoiler=[b]Previous Lists[/b]]
None!
[/spoiler]
Jan. 02, 2014  8:38 PM
 
Since it sounds like this is what we're going with (or at least, there have been no objections), I went on ahead and put the list in the Zero-G Competitive Customs List and Discussion thread in the Zero-G subforum:

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MFB-Zero...pid1177306

If anyone has concerns let me know and if need be I'll edit/remove it.
Feb. 20, 2014  4:16 AM
 
Since theres been no talk of updating the list here. I thought id make up another draft for updates:

Spoiler (Click to View)
Added
LRF to Smash Attack
Girago Girago E230 MB to Balance
Genbull Genbull E230 MB to Balance
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