Zero G DEVELOPMENTAL Top Tier Outline (updated 6-11!)

Poll: Are we ready for a Zer G Tier List?

Total: 100% 144 vote(s)
Actually, that is not true. My 4.5 min B:D is SonoKong. Hence proving (unless of course, with tests) that all B:D's have molds, no matter what brand.
let's focus in what is important...

Hasbro recently released the B : D, we don't know what kind of molds have...
So far in my experience it 7 min out of the box and still remains that way for a long time unless it get damaged by couple feet high drop, or whatever.

I have like 3 Hasbro B;D 1 is 6 min now because of the drop last month tournament and rest are 7 min.
Um considering they just take takara's molds I think the situation with their B:D's is likely to be very similar to takara/hasbro ones. Generally for MFB apart from creating their own altered versions of parts there is little sign that Hasbro has made major changes to the takara molds they copy/take and use.

However i'd like everyone to read this:

A few Points about B:D

Just because there are general trends when people have bought them may not mean anything... Of the 30 - 50 or so B:D's that people are talking about out of those are gonna be horrendously minuscule numbers out of the total made. And that's just for one brand. Let alone all three brands. Lets for the sake of argument say that they produced 100,000 of them overall. 50 of them would only be would be 0.05%. If you really think that number is representative of the whole you're insane. You have no way of knowing what a proper sample of a production of them would look like. There's no certain way of knowing if Takara even knows. If they did know and cared (this part is very iffy though. If it's not gonna give them profit they probably couldn't care less) don't you think they may have made it apparent and released a product with B:D that would definitely be a good mold?

2) There's no actual way of determining B:D molds apart from testing. Does anyone even know why the molds differ so much? Like a proper reason? I've never heard one.

Just because you found more better molds for Sonokong or hasbro doesn't mean with any certainty that those are better overall. It could just mean you're lucky enough to find them. Maybe through pure luck the batch that yours came from had more good than bad.

Another theory is that despite what we think there may be a way of knowing whether molds are good or bad so maybe they monitor how many good and bad molds are produced.

If Hasbro and Sonokong simply copied Takara's method of making B:D (i.e. injection molding or whatever) which is very likely since you know adapting processing of making to make parts different them is expensive (I.E. part of the reason hasbro doesn't make their own parts although them being cheap is surely most of it considering they're a worldwide brand that make enough to do so although maybe it's not viable but W/E) then assumedly there should be no proper difference overall. In plastics Hasbro only made altered molds when needed (mainly due to part breakage and safety issues) and there is some evidence that even these were by takara which aren't well known. Meaning that if the spin time of B:D's is is determined by something that changed with the mold process or different mold or whatever then unless there was something wrong with it, then it's kinda doubtful that Hasbro changed it which would cost money when there was no need to. If you really wanted to go on a limb I guess it's possible that the factories that produce takara parts and the ones that produce hasbro didn't use the same methods but that argument is easy to poke holes in too?

@Stars: I've never heard of half of the stuff you just said. Is this from personal experience or what?

1) I've never heard to 8 min molds from anywhere. I know you said 6 -8 min but if 8 min doesn't exist then it should 6 - 7 or whatever. Probably makes me seem pedantic but bad info needs to be suppressed.
2) If there's no proper testing you shouldn't go around saying what you think like it's the definite truth. New info could come along proving that you're talking other rubbish and make you look like a jackass.
3) All Ginga wants is testing so i'm not sure why you're berating him.
4) Earlier you said there's no point in testing Hasbro B:D since it sucks/will lose to whatever you're talking about and then you say it's preferred over takara one. Which is true?! I doubt both of them are!
5) Everyone is buying Hasbro now you say? Never heard that. Also Hasbro ver isn't even available in some countries yet (mine for example!).
(May. 06, 2013  11:08 PM)Stars Wrote: *Ginga* use your brain right now. Does people plan to buy Takara Phantom now? No, they plan to buy Hasbro Phantom because it 6-8 min mold out of box being "Free" then Takara shaft grinding and becoming 3-4 min it self.

Yet F230 will always remain terrible because it wears fast and will sway.

I bought one recently, haha. Honestly, I think you guys make too much of a deal out of the different "molds" that B:D apparently has; the chances of them actually making a difference in a competitive situation is very small in my experience (unless you have a really crappy B:D that has been abused heavily). Have people tested TAKARA-TOMY/SonoKong B:D versus Hasbro B:D yet?

I noticed at FINALE: THE FINAL SEASON on Saturday that some F230's are indeed visibly inferior to others, and while I am not sure of how fast they "wear" yet, I can say that the difference between a good F230 and a bad one is much more apparent in battle than it is with a "good" and "bad' B:D. But regardless, my main concern with what you're saying is that because something "wears fast" (I'm assuming this is true for F230, as I haven't used mine enough to see if this is the case), that means that it should be taken off of a top tier list? If it is really good (as F230CF is), it should be on the list despite how quickly it might become unusable or risky. That's like saying RF shouldn't be on the Standard Format list because it wears down.
I do not think the molds of Bearing Drive are a big deal. Also I agree when people say Duo F230CF DOES not deserve a spot until proper testing is done. Another thing is we should not even say MOLDS when talking about BGrin . If it spins less time than advertised (Which is 7 min) it should be called defective.
Advertisements are supposed to show the product in the best light. So you know they're gonna show a good spin time rather than the rubbish ones. That doesn't mean the ones with lower spin times than 7 minutes are defective.
Balro has good potential for smash attack, you know what I mean if you saw the testing thread theblackdragon made for Balro Balro CH120R2F.

These are tests from theblackdragon

Flash benchmark.

Flash Orion GB145R2F vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Prime R2F. Pretty worn RDF. Reviser launched first on all launches.
Orion: wins, 14/20 (All KO)
Reviser: wins, 6/20 (All OS)
Flash Orion GB145R2F win rate: 70%

Now Balro.

Balro Balro CH120R2F vs. Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
worn R2F. Almost brand new RDF. Balro at 120 height. Reviser launched first on all launches.
Balro: wins, 20/20 (12 KO, 8 OS)
Reviser: wins, 0/20
Balro Balro CH120R2F win rate: 100%
He said the OS were due to teh R2F being worn.
That was BB-10. This thread is for Zero G.
RDF? in Zero-G? Is someone blind that RDF is useless in Zero G?

Retest it Barlo 2x CH120R2F Vs. Reviser 2x E230 RS/RSF/BSF/ES
BB-10 results don't apply here

Every tested combo that is good enough only can be at the top tier list it was tested for

Also I think there are many testing running at this topic, but this topic is to discuss top tier combos/parts, the tests should be on their own thread, creating one if needed
Great so no one cares about the bit I wrote about B:D which took like 30 minutes for me too write?
Oops forgot to post here after what Ultra said,

I completely agree with Ultra and Kei. There is no way in finding out which Mold is better without proper testing, with completely brand new B;D's from all the various brands.

So basically, for all brands, the B;D is the same, and the different Mold you get varies, but I really don't think it matter in a battle, because the B;D will still act like a B;D, whether it's SonoKong, Hasbro, or TAKARA-TOMY.
Yes, but Balro still has smash, even if this is zero-g.
Yea but beys barely make contact so smash isn't really that important.
... Beys barely make contact? What?
Swaying, I meant that when the beys make alot of contact it is at the end of the battle. I may be wrong, but from most of my zero g battles beys do not make contact stong enough to do significant damage.
Sometimes Sway can make contact in sway but not enough "smash" to acutally KO.
(May. 09, 2013  12:22 AM)diblee123 Wrote: Yes, but Balro still has smash, even if this is zero-g.

Could be the best smasher of zero g, but still it wasn't tested on a zero g stadium, so it doesn't means it's that good in that stadium, the gimmick is way too different and it has a huge impact on combos

Ultra: I read what you posted, I only didn't think that was necessary more to add, your post was very complete to need anything more
i think that for b: d ''molds'' is just a different quality of the bearing. likein the olds series with the nsk bearing etc... and a bearing as no life time... especially if your combo is really heavy, it's really hard on the bearings and lose it's free spinnig drasticaly. (sorry for my english, i'm a french frog XD lol)
If the bey barely make contact, why is their a Smash Attack section in the thread? It says in smash attack Goreim Gryph and Wywang.
at that, I think you're right, its just it isn't really tested (in the way that most testing are for Zero G attack and not normal attack) and still battle don't last that long (hit, hit, hit, scrapes, OS/0GKO)

that doesn't mean something not tested can be put here that easily, people that talk here suggest parts that were tested in some way in Zero G

Also, although not tested properly, there are many people that says R2F is not that good for smash attack (I think it should have some official testing through)
(May. 09, 2013  6:25 PM)diblee123 Wrote: If the bey barely make contact, why is their a Smash Attack section in the thread? It says in smash attack Goreim Gryph and Wywang.

With certain launches, if you use RF/R2F/LRF, the beys will actually make pretty sufficient contact. The launch has to be perfect, though. Smash attackers are not nearly as effective in a zero G stadium, though, since the slope is so deep. If you use a rubber attack tip, the beys will actually not sway much. Smile
Wywang Wywang did good in BB-10 and it has good smash, so if it DOES make contact in a 0g stadium it should work. So if Balro makes contact it should have smash. I really think Balro should be in their, and I heard that its better if you use Gryph Balro. So someone plz test Balro in 0g
Yea, your point is very valid but if they make contact most likely they will not make contact in the right place (I don't really know how to word it) because of the movement of the stadium.