---

All the reliance on Hercules at the tournament is a bit concerning though. aH's performance feels eerily similar to that of Dark Deathscyther's in it's heyday... amazing stamina, defense, and teeth all in one package... I don't think it's gotten bad enough to ban it yet, but given that (in my opinion at least) the upcoming attack layers Buster Xcalibur and Yamiterios don't look very groundbreaking, and both aH and hS shut out wV attack pretty consistently, I think a ban on aH should at least be considered.

I totally agree with u and i also wanted to say that the ban on aH would automatically make cR the top stamina layer which is very weak against attack,  thus balancing the meta

---

Fav cho-Z combos
[\spoiler]
cR with A level chip 7 Revolve
rP with A level chip 10 Cross Atomic
zA with A level chip 0 Bump Destroy
hS with A level chip 7 Glaive Bearing
vL with A level chip 0 Reach Jolt
bL with A level chip 0 Glaive Variable(worn)

why ban aH when Sr and mG are already sitting in the penalty box?

considering we are finally in the strong part of the cho-z release cycle,
the ban list might get pretty full if we listen to those who don’t know the counters

Revival of the Phoenix - 7/29/2018
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Format

1st: Kei
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal
Revive Phoenix (Level Chip) 7 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 0 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Revive Phoenix 7 Cross Destroy (Deck Format Finals Only)

2nd: @[Justin TC]
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
Revive Phoenix 7 Star Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)

3rd: @[OldSchool™]
Hell Salamander 0 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)

Read my full tournament report with commentary here!

The hS and aH dominance continues, now with a sprinkling of rP.

---

Hey first time poster but ive been lurking for a little bit now so i just want to thank you all for being a great source of everything beyblade related and being a great community.

Any way on to the question at hand, sorry if im asking this in the wrong thread but from what i could find this seems to be an appropriate place to ask.

In my opinion, if we want to talk about which Layers are actually legitimately competitive at the highest level right now it's probably aH, hS, rP, and wV. That's pretty much it.

Ive been trying to find a breakdown of the top tier parts in the burst series. The above quote from a few posts ago has been one of the things ive been looking for and ive already gathered the with forge disks your best options appear to be 0/7/10 with 4/5 as backup. All i need to find now is the top tier frames and drivers. Any help would be greatly appreciated  

Again, sorry if ive posted this in the wrong place.

Glad to hear that about your experience with the community!

You're right about the Disks, and as for Frames and Drivers I'd say generally speaking:

Frames
Bump
Meteor
Glaive

In many situations is can be card to discern the effect of Frames, so other Frames like Star, Cross, Reach, etc can be used too. Bump and Meteor are definitely the overall #1 right now thought.

Drivers
Bearing
Atomic
Eternal
Jolt

These are probably the most popular right now, but especially for Drivers there's a plethora of other Drivers that can be useful too depending on the situation ... Hunter, Xtreme, Destroy, Orbit, Friction, and Revolve come to mind.

Hope this helps!

All the reliance on Hercules at the tournament is a bit concerning though. aH's performance feels eerily similar to that of Dark Deathscyther's in it's heyday... amazing stamina, defense, and teeth all in one package... I don't think it's gotten bad enough to ban it yet, but given that (in my opinion at least) the upcoming attack layers Buster Xcalibur and Yamiterios don't look very groundbreaking, and both aH and hS shut out wV attack pretty consistently, I think a ban on aH should at least be considered.

Can agree with most of this. Talked in similar terms in my latest tournament report.

why ban aH when Sr and mG are already sitting in the penalty box?

considering we are finally in the strong part of the cho-z release cycle,
the ban list will get pretty full if we listen to those who don’t know the counters

Re-evaluating Sr and mG are next on our priority list. My gut feeling right now is that we probably will unban Sr and mG (Spryzen Requiem might be a different story).

You're right that "the ban list will get pretty full if we listen to those who don’t know the counters", but the aH issue has become pretty evident over the past month. There's just nothing right now Attack-wise that can beat it with anything close to consistency as far as I know. I'm still willing to wait and see how it goes with Buster Xcalibur, but if that turns out to be a dud it might be the last straw for me ...

Of course, definitely open to other opinions and would love to hear from everyone more on how they perceive aH right now.

---

why ban aH when Sr and mG are already sitting in the penalty box?

considering we are finally in the strong part of the cho-z release cycle,
the ban list will get pretty full if we listen to those who don’t know the counters

Re-evaluating Sr and mG are next on our priority list. My gut feeling right now is that we probably will unban Sr and mG (Spryzen Requiem might be a different story).

You're right that "the ban list will get pretty full if we listen to those who don’t know the counters", but the aH issue has become pretty evident over the past month. There's just nothing right now Attack-wise that can beat it with anything close to consistency as far as I know. I'm still willing to wait and see how it goes with Buster Xcalibur, but if that turns out to be a dud it might be the last straw for me ...

Of course, definitely open to other opinions and would love to hear from everyone more on how they perceive aH right now.

i’m reluctant to suggest a combo, but this is strong against aH.7.Et

Winning Valkyrie (level chip) 0 Lift (defense) Friction


EDIT:
this is not a consistent way to beat aH.  though it does burst aH.7.Et more than anything else I know of.  i did a ton of tests and LC wV.0L.friction is about 50/50, when launched with the phoenix winder.

i’m reluctant to suggest a combo, but this is strong against aH.7.Et

Winning Valkyrie (level chip) 0 Lift (defense) Friction

I've tried a lot of set ups on wV similar to that and may have even tried Friction briefly the other day, but I'll give it another shot when I get Lift. Thanks!

---

RVA Summer Series #2 [Burst]
1st Place -  Wombat
aH.7.Et
hS.0B.H
bL.5G.W (deck only)
wV.8V.X (deck only)

Hell Salamander is a tank. Nothing could burst it, it simply absorbed all attacks.

In my opinion, if we want to talk about which Layers are actually legitimately competitive at the highest level right now it's probably aH, hS, rP, and wV. That's pretty much it. There's of course other Layers which you can find success with (as RVA Summer Series #2 demonstrated), but you either have to be lucky in some fashion or seek out specific situations where a certain other Layer can be effective (like Bloody Longinus against some hS combinations).

While I don't own Revive Phoenix yet, from the free play testing I did with Kevo's rP at Beytuber Brawl and the matches and free play at RVA Summer Series #2, it seemed too inconsistent to be seriously competitive to me. I think the one time I saw it have success against a competitive combo was when Sniper used rP.11B.Yd to beat OnTheDL's aH.7.Et, though I have a feeling it was mainly Yard doing the work. I don't think anyone there was using rP on Atomic or Eternal though, so that might be something I've overlooked, but even then, I'm not sure if it fills any particular role that Archer Hercules can't already. Have you found any combos with it that you think make it "competitive at the highest level"?

The gimmick can sometimes cause it to win if the frame interferes with the opponent after falling off, but since that's something almost completely outside of player control, I wouldn't say it's a consistent way to win by any means.

1st: Kei
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal
Revive Phoenix (Level Chip) 7 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 0 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Revive Phoenix 7 Cross Destroy (Deck Format Finals Only)

2nd: @[Justin TC]
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules 10 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)
Revive Phoenix 7 Star Atomic (Deck Format Finals Only)
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Bearing (Deck Format Finals Only)

3rd: @[OldSchool™]
Hell Salamander 0 Eternal
Hell Salamander (Level Chip) 0 Bump Atomic
Hell Salamander 0 Bump Atomic
Archer Hercules (Level Chip) 7 Eternal
Archer Hercules 7 Eternal (Deck Format Finals Only)

After taking a close look at 10 for the first time last weekend, I actually realized that it was completely smooth underneath, so I'm a bit surprised that it took everyone in Toronto so long to switch over to 10 from 7, especially since it's heavier and therefore obviously better.

All the reliance on Hercules at the tournament is a bit concerning though. aH's performance feels eerily similar to that of Dark Deathscyther's in it's heyday... amazing stamina, defense, and teeth all in one package... I don't think it's gotten bad enough to ban it yet, but given that (in my opinion at least) the upcoming attack layers Buster Xcalibur and Yamiterios don't look very groundbreaking, and both aH and hS shut out wV attack pretty consistently, I think a ban on aH should at least be considered.

Can agree with most of this. Talked in similar terms in my latest tournament report.

...

Of course, definitely open to other opinions and would love to hear from everyone more on how they perceive aH right now.
[/quote]

I'm surprised to keep hearing about aH having so much success against Attack - while it was certainly beating wV Jolt in the video I made a few days ago, it seemed like it was more due to my bad launching than anything else. During free play in Virginia last weekend, I was getting wV.8V.X to KO aH.7.Et consistently... I actually recall KumaKing's Vise Leopard Unite combo giving me more trouble, but then again, my Sliding Shoot was super on point that day, so I did some tests real quick:

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
wV.8V.X: 11 wins (9 KO, 2 burst)
aH.7.Et: 9 wins (7 OS, 1 KO, 1 burst)
1 tie (double KO)
wV.8V.X win rate: 55%

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Hell Salamander 0Glaive Atomic
wV.8V.X: 6 wins (all KO)
aH.7.Et: 14 wins (13 OS, 1 burst)
wV.8V.X win rate: 30%

A lot closer than I was expecting, but wV still does better against aH for me than it does against hS - generally speaking, Attack types always perform better against an opponent of the same spin direction because opposite spin opponents will always weak launch to avoid being KOed or bursted, while same spin opponents only weak launch if they're vulnerable to bursting (which aH isn't particularly). Tried Legend Spriggan against aH.7.Et since in my opinion it's one of the only other viable attackers and while I don't think I got to 20 rounds, lS only managed 2 KOs the entire time.

Kind of a tangent, but in my opinion the main reason people found D2 so difficult to beat was because they weren't being very creative in trying to take it down - outside of DHD and super-balanced Wyvern/Neptune combos, Odin on Defense/Blow, Deathscyther stallers, V2 on Xtreme, stationary Valkyrie (though this didn't work against the Orbit variant), Lost Longinus on Hold, and Minoboros to an extent could all beat it, and I also feel like some of the Hasbro Layers like Roktavor and Spryzen S2 would have worked if they were given more of a chance. While there's less room to be creative with all of the opposite spin combos running around, maybe Twin Nemesis on Reboot could beat aH Eternal? Theoretically, a shorter, wider Revolve is a Smash Attacker's dream matchup - my tN just bursts way too much for me to get any kind of reliable result, so maybe someone who has a tighter one could test?

Spoiler (Click to View)

In the first round of the finals I was able to easily take down SUGOI-KONICHEWA’s deck with my LC hS.0B.Br. His deck consisted of aH.0.Et, rP.10.Fr, and hS.0B.H. The hS.0B.H was a bit strange … the first two were expected, but had he used hS on Atomic the battle may have been a bit closer as it may have countered by LC hS.0B.Br.

lol sugoi confirmed wombat fanboy

i had my suspicions when he got 2nd last year with L2 hold and used nL Variable late last year, but this hS hold just seals the deal

---

I am not great with launching beyblades. My sliding shot consistently slides the Beyblade into the pocket. aH is my last and best hope against hS on At. I had tN on Ds prior to aH release to beat hS on At in deck format. But I hated doing that because I didn’t find tN on destroy to be any good against much else. And the thing with aH is that even the stock combo can beat hS on At. I saw that in LA this weekend more than once. That makes the solution hS on At pretty accessible.

I guess I just feel that hS on At is a beast. Pretty sure before the release of aH ppl were calling for it to be banned. If aH is banned today and I had no info about what my opponent is playing, I can’t really come up with a reason not to use hS on At.

Hasbro Sr probably should not be unbanned. My son and I have several copies of Hasbro Sr and Br. That combo is too tight. But the problem may be Br also. We had someone in LA that took a single Hasbro stock dC to the deck format. I dont know how may attack type he faced but that dC didn’t burst much if at all.

Winning Combinations at -"Battle of the Legends"
1Pratham-
winning Valkyrie triple Xtreme
Hell salamander nine revolve
Victory Valkyrie boost variable

Adarsh Abhinav
Nightmare Longinus Destroy
Seig Xcalibur 0under Variable
Drain Fafnir 8 orbit
Aguynamedmobi-
Zillion Zews Knuckle Orbit
Victory Valkyrie Magnum Iron
xeno Xcalibur nine Trans



HS is taking over, I could burst it a single time only.

---

While I don't own Revive Phoenix yet, from the free play testing I did with Kevo's rP at Beytuber Brawl and the matches and free play at RVA Summer Series #2, it seemed too inconsistent to be seriously competitive to me. I think the one time I saw it have success against a competitive combo was when Sniper used rP.11B.Yd to beat OnTheDL's aH.7.Et, though I have a feeling it was mainly Yard doing the work. I don't think anyone there was using rP on Atomic or Eternal though, so that might be something I've overlooked, but even then, I'm not sure if it fills any particular role that Archer Hercules can't already. Have you found any combos with it that you think make it "competitive at the highest level"?

The gimmick can sometimes cause it to win if the frame interferes with the opponent after falling off, but since that's something almost completely outside of player control, I wouldn't say it's a consistent way to win by any means.

In my testing, rP.10.Fr and LC rP.7B.At were beating aH on Eternal pretty consistently. That was cool, but what put it over the top for me was that my LC rP.7B.At was consistently OSing LC hS.0B.At. This means we have a combo that has the ability to defeat both aH Et and hS At, and it has pretty decent defense.

That being said, I may have jumped the gun with my statement a little bit because at the tournament yesterday LC rP.7B.At wasn't quite as consistent at OSing LC aH.7.Et as it was during my solo testing. My only loss of the day was 3-2 using it against OldSchool™'s LC aH.7.Et; it's a winnable match-up, but is largely dependent on launch strength (which can be tricky with Atomic's tendency to self-KO when launched hard) and after yesterday I might actually give the edge to aH ... There was also some rP Et vs. aH Et matches and aH won, so I'm pretty sure aH has better Stamina. In any case, for its ability (in my testing so far) to beat hS on At and have a chance against aH Et, it's viable enough to be considered competitive I think. Need to test more, though.

After taking a close look at 10 for the first time last weekend, I actually realized that it was completely smooth underneath, so I'm a bit surprised that it took everyone in Toronto so long to switch over to 10 from 7, especially since it's heavier and therefore obviously better.

Haha, other than one kid who came to our last event and had the silver rP, this was our first event with it!

1234beyblade and I tested 10 versus 7 and 0 before the tournament and 10 seemed to be better than 7 and about equal to 0 overall.

I'm surprised to keep hearing about aH having so much success against Attack - while it was certainly beating wV Jolt in the video I made a few days ago, it seemed like it was more due to my bad launching than anything else. During free play in Virginia last weekend, I was getting wV.8V.X to KO aH.7.Et consistently... I actually recall KumaKing's Vise Leopard Unite combo giving me more trouble, but then again, my Sliding Shoot was super on point that day, so I did some tests real quick:

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
wV.8V.X: 11 wins (9 KO, 2 burst)
aH.7.Et: 9 wins (7 OS, 1 KO, 1 burst)
1 tie (double KO)
wV.8V.X win rate: 55%

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Hell Salamander 0Glaive Atomic
wV.8V.X: 6 wins (all KO)
aH.7.Et: 14 wins (13 OS, 1 burst)
wV.8V.X win rate: 30%

A lot closer than I was expecting, but wV still does better against aH for me than it does against hS - generally speaking, Attack types always perform better against an opponent of the same spin direction because opposite spin opponents will always weak launch to avoid being KOed or bursted, while same spin opponents only weak launch if they're vulnerable to bursting (which aH isn't particularly).

Thanks for doing that testing! Admittedly, Xtreme is one Driver I should probably test more. We've been hyped up on Jolt for a little while over here, so maybe Xtreme is in fact better. That being said, 55% in a controlled testing environment against what should be a "Stamina type" is that great. wV has the ability to KO aH as I've said before, but in order to do so with any consistency it basically requires perfection not only of shooting technique, but positioning of the aH as well so that your big hit doesn't knock it into a wall instead of a pocket ... the whole situation is just too dicey for it to be really that attractive of a choice during tournaments, especially in the first stage. For example, if aH was gone and cR/tN/dC were the best stamina types, you'd definitely see a lot more attack because those Layers feel a lot more fair in terms of their stamina vs. defense balance.

The Hell Salamander tests are interesting. I think you're oversimplifying the match-up, though. Weak launching is not always the best choice in that situation because it becomes easy for the Attack user to simply worry only about doing a perfect bank to try and KO/Burst you. In a certain sense, that makes you pretty helpless as the hS user. If you launch straight/harder instead on some rounds and successfully predict your opponent's bank, you can just KO them before they start sweeping into the middle of the stadium because of Atomic's movement. This strategy is especially appealing in Deck Format because you can earn an easy two points this way. But once this has been established, the match becomes a huge mind game, so it can go either way. This happened to 1234beyblade and I a few tournaments ago.

I guess I just feel that hS on At is a beast.  Pretty sure before the release of aH ppl were calling for it to be banned.  If aH is banned today and I had no info about what my opponent is playing, I can’t really come up with a reason not to use hS on At.  

Try out rP.7B.At against it. I haven't tested it extensively, but in my experience so far it beats hS on At.

---

While I don't own Revive Phoenix yet, from the free play testing I did with Kevo's rP at Beytuber Brawl and the matches and free play at RVA Summer Series #2, it seemed too inconsistent to be seriously competitive to me. I think the one time I saw it have success against a competitive combo was when Sniper used rP.11B.Yd to beat OnTheDL's aH.7.Et, though I have a feeling it was mainly Yard doing the work. I don't think anyone there was using rP on Atomic or Eternal though, so that might be something I've overlooked, but even then, I'm not sure if it fills any particular role that Archer Hercules can't already. Have you found any combos with it that you think make it "competitive at the highest level"?

The gimmick can sometimes cause it to win if the frame interferes with the opponent after falling off, but since that's something almost completely outside of player control, I wouldn't say it's a consistent way to win by any means.

In my testing, rP.10.Fr and LC rP.7B.At were beating aH on Eternal pretty consistently. That was cool, but what put it over the top for me was that my LC rP.7B.At was consistently OSing LC hS.0B.At. This means we have a combo that has the ability to defeat both aH Et and hS At, and it has pretty decent defense.

That being said, I may have jumped the gun with my statement a little bit because at the tournament yesterday LC rP.7B.At wasn't quite as consistent at OSing LC aH.7.Et as it was during my solo testing. My only loss of the day was 3-2 using it against OldSchool™'s LC aH.7.Et; it's a winnable match-up, but is largely dependent on launch strength (which can be tricky with Atomic's tendency to self-KO when launched hard) and after yesterday I might actually give the edge to aH ... There was also some rP Et vs. aH Et matches and aH won, so I'm pretty sure aH has better Stamina. In any case, for its ability (in my testing so far) to beat hS on At and have a chance against aH Et, it's viable enough to be considered competitive I think. Need to test more, though.

After taking a close look at 10 for the first time last weekend, I actually realized that it was completely smooth underneath, so I'm a bit surprised that it took everyone in Toronto so long to switch over to 10 from 7, especially since it's heavier and therefore obviously better.

Haha, other than one kid who came to our last event and had the silver rP, this was our first event with it!

1234beyblade and I tested 10 versus 7 and 0 before the tournament and 10 seemed to be better than 7 and about equal to 0 overall.

I'm surprised to keep hearing about aH having so much success against Attack - while it was certainly beating wV Jolt in the video I made a few days ago, it seemed like it was more due to my bad launching than anything else. During free play in Virginia last weekend, I was getting wV.8V.X to KO aH.7.Et consistently... I actually recall KumaKing's Vise Leopard Unite combo giving me more trouble, but then again, my Sliding Shoot was super on point that day, so I did some tests real quick:

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
wV.8V.X: 11 wins (9 KO, 2 burst)
aH.7.Et: 9 wins (7 OS, 1 KO, 1 burst)
1 tie (double KO)
wV.8V.X win rate: 55%

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Hell Salamander 0Glaive Atomic
wV.8V.X: 6 wins (all KO)
aH.7.Et: 14 wins (13 OS, 1 burst)
wV.8V.X win rate: 30%

A lot closer than I was expecting, but wV still does better against aH for me than it does against hS - generally speaking, Attack types always perform better against an opponent of the same spin direction because opposite spin opponents will always weak launch to avoid being KOed or bursted, while same spin opponents only weak launch if they're vulnerable to bursting (which aH isn't particularly).

Thanks for doing that testing! Admittedly, Xtreme is one Driver I should probably test more. We've been hyped up on Jolt for a little while over here, so maybe Xtreme is in fact better. That being said, 55% in a controlled testing environment against what should be a "Stamina type" is that great. wV has the ability to KO aH as I've said before, but in order to do so with any consistency it basically requires perfection not only of shooting technique, but positioning of the aH as well so that your big hit doesn't knock it into a wall instead of a pocket ... the whole situation is just too dicey for it to be really that attractive of a choice during tournaments, especially in the first stage. For example, if aH was gone and cR/tN/dC were the best stamina types, you'd definitely see a lot more attack because those Layers feel a lot more fair in terms of their stamina vs. defense balance.

The Hell Salamander tests are interesting. I think you're oversimplifying the match-up, though. Weak launching is not always the best choice in that situation because it becomes easy for the Attack user to simply worry only about doing a perfect bank to try and KO/Burst you. In a certain sense, that makes you pretty helpless as the hS user. If you launch straight/harder instead on some rounds and successfully predict your opponent's bank, you can just KO them before they start sweeping into the middle of the stadium because of Atomic's movement. This strategy is especially appealing in Deck Format because you can earn an easy two points this way. But once this has been established, the match becomes a huge mind game, so it can go either way. This happened to 1234beyblade and I a few tournaments ago.

I guess I just feel that hS on At is a beast.  Pretty sure before the release of aH ppl were calling for it to be banned.  If aH is banned today and I had no info about what my opponent is playing, I can’t really come up with a reason not to use hS on At.  

Try out rP.7B.At against it. I haven't tested it extensively, but in my experience so far it beats hS on At.

This is really really Useful discussion.  I am learning a lot form this.  

I haven’t tested rP.7B.At and will definitely do that.  I did try LC rP.0B.At against hS on At and was able to beat hS sometimes.  Then I received Lift and started going down the road of making the heaviest Beyblade I could for some reason.  So I tested LC rP.0L.Octa against aH.7.Et, hS.0B.At, and hS.0B.Br.  Surprisingly this super heavy weight could win at times against all 3.  Lift was probably a very bad choice.    I ended up using rP.10C.Octa for my tournament but I really didn’t test this combo that much.  I just knew that I can get the octa to jump sometimes and that could sometimes KO randomly and that it can burst hS on Br.  The armor coming off really makes testing kind of hard though at least for me.  Sometimes it’s hard to tell how much is the armor’s doing.

Hasbro Sr probably should not be unbanned.  My son and I have several copies of Hasbro Sr and Br. That combo is too tight.  But the problem may be Br also.  We had someone in LA that took a single Hasbro stock dC to the deck format.  I dont know how may attack type he faced but that dC didn’t burst much if at all.

I think the player with dC just had good matchups, because in the finals I faced him and everything in my deck slammed it.

Hasbro Sr on Br may be fair to bring back at this point, it will still have problems facing hS and aH but it gives Hasbro users a better chance in the meta.

Hasbro Sr probably should not be unbanned.  My son and I have several copies of Hasbro Sr and Br. That combo is too tight.  But the problem may be Br also.  We had someone in LA that took a single Hasbro stock dC to the deck format.  I dont know how may attack type he faced but that dC didn’t burst much if at all.

I think the player with dC just had good matchups, because in the finals I faced him and everything in my deck slammed it.

Hasbro Sr on Br may be fair to bring back at this point, it will still have problems facing hS and aH but it gives Hasbro users a better chance in the meta.

That’s very true from the perspective of Hasbro beyblades definitely being more accessible.  I watched the Japanese finals to select their national champ to compete for the world championship in June.  TT Sr was still quite popular.  Most decks consisted of hS, aH, Sr, eF, vW and even 2 silver rP in last stage.  But it is true Sr is not nearly as dominant.  Unfortunately, they played the semifinals and finals in the tornado and double tornado stadium....

Hasbro Sr probably should not be unbanned.  My son and I have several copies of Hasbro Sr and Br. That combo is too tight.  But the problem may be Br also.  We had someone in LA that took a single Hasbro stock dC to the deck format.  I dont know how may attack type he faced but that dC didn’t burst much if at all.

I think the player with dC just had good matchups, because in the finals I faced him and everything in my deck slammed it.

Hasbro Sr on Br may be fair to bring back at this point, it will still have problems facing hS and aH but it gives Hasbro users a better chance in the meta.

for a given tournament, hasbro players have the same accessibility TT players have, i. e. they can buy beys the same way online.  

being a hasbro player is not some medical ailment or genetic condition.  they choose to use hasbro, instead of choosing to use TT, most of them proudly so (often thumping chests to slope reliability, etc, lol)

there should be absolutely zero credence to the idea of altering our rules with an ulterior motive of making things easier (or harder) for either brand's players

requiem S3 and G3 are just failed lazy products, that’s why they should be banned.  i’d say the same if TT made them.  

but picking and choosing when to apply the ban hammer should not be influenced in anyway by pity for a specific brand's players.  i’m sorry, but that is gangsterism.

Did a quick test of all Hasbro Sr.0F.Br vs all TT aH.7.ET...this was very boring by the way.

Sr in Left, alt launch
aH- 3OS (3wins)
Sr- 2OS (2wins)
15 ties...zzzzzz.      aH slight edge

Sr in right, alt launch ( I couldn’t get passed 10)
aH-9 OS, 1 B (10wins)
Sr-0 wins
I stand corrected about Hasbro Sr on Br, at least against aH.

I was going to do hS but the 15 ties crushed my soul.  Maybe another time.

Instead unbanning srs3 and g3 why not just do a hasbro only tournament? Also how is 10 compared to 7 in terms of stamina

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Fav cho-Z combos
[\spoiler]
cR with A level chip 7 Revolve
rP with A level chip 10 Cross Atomic
zA with A level chip 0 Bump Destroy
hS with A level chip 7 Glaive Bearing
vL with A level chip 0 Reach Jolt
bL with A level chip 0 Glaive Variable(worn)

Hasbro Sr probably should not be unbanned.  My son and I have several copies of Hasbro Sr and Br. That combo is too tight.  But the problem may be Br also.  We had someone in LA that took a single Hasbro stock dC to the deck format.  I dont know how may attack type he faced but that dC didn’t burst much if at all.

I think the player with dC just had good matchups, because in the finals I faced him and everything in my deck slammed it.

Hasbro Sr on Br may be fair to bring back at this point, it will still have problems facing hS and aH but it gives Hasbro users a better chance in the meta.

My quick test of all Hasbro Sr.0F.Br vs all TT hS.0B. Br

Sr in Left, alt launch
Sr-1 OS ( I think this is a fluke)
hS-9 OS. hS 90% win

Sr in right, alt launch
Sr-0 wins
hS-10 OS, 100% win rate (what!?)

Combined with previous results of aH test: 

Hasbro Sr.0F.Br vs all TT aH.7.ET

Sr in Left, alt launch
aH- 3OS (3wins)
Sr- 2OS (2wins)
15 ties...zzzzzz.      aH slight edge 

Sr in right, alt launch ( I couldn’t get passed 10)
aH-9 OS, 1 B (10wins)
Sr-0 wins

I stand corrected about Hasbro Sr on Br, it is not too good at all unless aH and hS are banned.  It has great burst resistance but I guess that doesn’t matter now.  I just assumed it was too good because it was so hard to burst.  I am not knowledgeable enough to know why  Sr can’t even get one win in opposite spin.  May be someone else can explain.

While I don't own Revive Phoenix yet, from the free play testing I did with Kevo's rP at Beytuber Brawl and the matches and free play at RVA Summer Series #2, it seemed too inconsistent to be seriously competitive to me. I think the one time I saw it have success against a competitive combo was when Sniper used rP.11B.Yd to beat OnTheDL's aH.7.Et, though I have a feeling it was mainly Yard doing the work. I don't think anyone there was using rP on Atomic or Eternal though, so that might be something I've overlooked, but even then, I'm not sure if it fills any particular role that Archer Hercules can't already. Have you found any combos with it that you think make it "competitive at the highest level"?

The gimmick can sometimes cause it to win if the frame interferes with the opponent after falling off, but since that's something almost completely outside of player control, I wouldn't say it's a consistent way to win by any means.

In my testing, rP.10.Fr and LC rP.7B.At were beating aH on Eternal pretty consistently. That was cool, but what put it over the top for me was that my LC rP.7B.At was consistently OSing LC hS.0B.At. This means we have a combo that has the ability to defeat both aH Et and hS At, and it has pretty decent defense.

That being said, I may have jumped the gun with my statement a little bit because at the tournament yesterday LC rP.7B.At wasn't quite as consistent at OSing LC aH.7.Et as it was during my solo testing. My only loss of the day was 3-2 using it against OldSchool™'s LC aH.7.Et; it's a winnable match-up, but is largely dependent on launch strength (which can be tricky with Atomic's tendency to self-KO when launched hard) and after yesterday I might actually give the edge to aH ... There was also some rP Et vs. aH Et matches and aH won, so I'm pretty sure aH has better Stamina. In any case, for its ability (in my testing so far) to beat hS on At and have a chance against aH Et, it's viable enough to be considered competitive I think. Need to test more, though.

After taking a close look at 10 for the first time last weekend, I actually realized that it was completely smooth underneath, so I'm a bit surprised that it took everyone in Toronto so long to switch over to 10 from 7, especially since it's heavier and therefore obviously better.

Haha, other than one kid who came to our last event and had the silver rP, this was our first event with it!

1234beyblade and I tested 10 versus 7 and 0 before the tournament and 10 seemed to be better than 7 and about equal to 0 overall.

I'm surprised to keep hearing about aH having so much success against Attack - while it was certainly beating wV Jolt in the video I made a few days ago, it seemed like it was more due to my bad launching than anything else. During free play in Virginia last weekend, I was getting wV.8V.X to KO aH.7.Et consistently... I actually recall KumaKing's Vise Leopard Unite combo giving me more trouble, but then again, my Sliding Shoot was super on point that day, so I did some tests real quick:

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Archer Hercules 7 Eternal
wV.8V.X: 11 wins (9 KO, 2 burst)
aH.7.Et: 9 wins (7 OS, 1 KO, 1 burst)
1 tie (double KO)
wV.8V.X win rate: 55%

Winning Valkyrie 8Vortex Xtreme vs Hell Salamander 0Glaive Atomic
wV.8V.X: 6 wins (all KO)
aH.7.Et: 14 wins (13 OS, 1 burst)
wV.8V.X win rate: 30%

A lot closer than I was expecting, but wV still does better against aH for me than it does against hS - generally speaking, Attack types always perform better against an opponent of the same spin direction because opposite spin opponents will always weak launch to avoid being KOed or bursted, while same spin opponents only weak launch if they're vulnerable to bursting (which aH isn't particularly).

Thanks for doing that testing! Admittedly, Xtreme is one Driver I should probably test more. We've been hyped up on Jolt for a little while over here, so maybe Xtreme is in fact better. That being said, 55% in a controlled testing environment against what should be a "Stamina type" is that great. wV has the ability to KO aH as I've said before, but in order to do so with any consistency it basically requires perfection not only of shooting technique, but positioning of the aH as well so that your big hit doesn't knock it into a wall instead of a pocket ... the whole situation is just too dicey for it to be really that attractive of a choice during tournaments, especially in the first stage. For example, if aH was gone and cR/tN/dC were the best stamina types, you'd definitely see a lot more attack because those Layers feel a lot more fair in terms of their stamina vs. defense balance.

The Hell Salamander tests are interesting. I think you're oversimplifying the match-up, though. Weak launching is not always the best choice in that situation because it becomes easy for the Attack user to simply worry only about doing a perfect bank to try and KO/Burst you. In a certain sense, that makes you pretty helpless as the hS user. If you launch straight/harder instead on some rounds and successfully predict your opponent's bank, you can just KO them before they start sweeping into the middle of the stadium because of Atomic's movement. This strategy is especially appealing in Deck Format because you can earn an easy two points this way. But once this has been established, the match becomes a huge mind game, so it can go either way. This happened to 1234beyblade and I a few tournaments ago.

I guess I just feel that hS on At is a beast.  Pretty sure before the release of aH ppl were calling for it to be banned.  If aH is banned today and I had no info about what my opponent is playing, I can’t really come up with a reason not to use hS on At.  

Try out rP.7B.At against it. I haven't tested it extensively, but in my experience so far it beats hS on At.

I tested rP.7B.At today.  In my hands it was pretty even with hS.0B.At. But I can certainly get with there is a non-attack type answer to hS on At.  I also tried rP.7B.At against aH.7.Et.  I give the edge to aH in this case.  Still pretty close but aH definite won more.  But all these tests were pretty close so variation in parts may play a role.

How come 10 is being used on aH?I thought 7 had more stamina then 0 and 10.

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My Favorite Anime of all Time in no particular order: 
1, Re: ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (Wishing for Season 2)
2, My Teenage Romantic Comedy SNAFU (Delighted for Season 3)
3, Sword Art Online and Sword Art Online: Alicization (Skip season 2 or feel my wrath)
4, Charlotte (Charlotte had way more potential for a 2nd Season, but it didn't happen. R.I.P Jun Maeda)
5, Your lie in April (Clannad sadness V.S. Your lie in April sadness...who wins?)
6, Akame Ga Kill (Bad@ss Assassins, what more could I ask for?)
7, Naruto Shippuden (Idk why I have Naruto here, but whatever. It's Nostalgic that's for sure.)
8, Clannad and Clannad After Story (Be prepared to have a handkerchief or napkin next to you just in case...you cri :( )
9, Death Note (This is one those anime series that didn't finish well story wise, but still a solid series overall.)
10, Food Wars! (I feel like a weeb for liking Shokugeki no Soma. Or maybe the food just looks too good everytime I watch an episode.)
11, The Pet Girl of Sakurasou (Oh boy, this one is just awesome. You're just going to have to see this one for yourself.
12, Golden Time (I didn't like the way amnesia was portrayed in this, but that doesn't matter haha. One of the best Romance anime of all time. That's unless if you prefer Toradora.)
13, The Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime (If you're into OP mc's, then this one is for you.)
14, Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai (Terrible title lmao. Great romcom anime.)
15, Tokyo Ghoul (One of my favorite looking anime of all time.)

How come 10 is being used on aH?I thought 7 had more stamina then 0 and 10.

10 has more outer weight distribution than 7 so, its more useful in stamina combos.

Ahh I see. thx so much!

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How come 10 is being used on aH?I thought 7 had more stamina then 0 and 10.

10 has more outer weight distribution than 7 so, its more useful in stamina combos.

How about 0. I thought 0 has less stamina then 7.

---

My Favorite Anime of all Time in no particular order: 
1, Re: ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (Wishing for Season 2)
2, My Teenage Romantic Comedy SNAFU (Delighted for Season 3)
3, Sword Art Online and Sword Art Online: Alicization (Skip season 2 or feel my wrath)
4, Charlotte (Charlotte had way more potential for a 2nd Season, but it didn't happen. R.I.P Jun Maeda)
5, Your lie in April (Clannad sadness V.S. Your lie in April sadness...who wins?)
6, Akame Ga Kill (Bad@ss Assassins, what more could I ask for?)
7, Naruto Shippuden (Idk why I have Naruto here, but whatever. It's Nostalgic that's for sure.)
8, Clannad and Clannad After Story (Be prepared to have a handkerchief or napkin next to you just in case...you cri :( )
9, Death Note (This is one those anime series that didn't finish well story wise, but still a solid series overall.)
10, Food Wars! (I feel like a weeb for liking Shokugeki no Soma. Or maybe the food just looks too good everytime I watch an episode.)
11, The Pet Girl of Sakurasou (Oh boy, this one is just awesome. You're just going to have to see this one for yourself.
12, Golden Time (I didn't like the way amnesia was portrayed in this, but that doesn't matter haha. One of the best Romance anime of all time. That's unless if you prefer Toradora.)
13, The Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime (If you're into OP mc's, then this one is for you.)
14, Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai (Terrible title lmao. Great romcom anime.)
15, Tokyo Ghoul (One of my favorite looking anime of all time.)

Ahh I see. thx so much!

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10 has more outer weight distribution than 7 so, its more useful in stamina combos.

How about 0. I thought 0 has less stamina then 7.

0 does have less stamina than 7 and is more useful for defense/attack combos. Of course tho you can still use 0 in stamina combinations it just won't be as good as using 7 or 10

How come 10 is being used on aH?I thought 7 had more stamina then 0 and 10.

I haven't tested 10 yet, but it has a smooth bottom which is vital for aH Eternal, as it is much lower to the ground than other meta drivers. 5 had previously been used on aH Eternal for that same reason.

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

The answer is clear...

Bring back mG and Sr. When next month comes Buster Xcalibur will destroy all, espically aH. Trust me! I know the future ;)

Instead unbanning srs3 and g3 why not just do a hasbro only tournament? Also how is 10 compared to 7 in terms of stamina

Because nobody wants to host Hasbro-only tournaments, they don't get to use their shiny Chou-Z beys to sweep 90% of the tournament that way.

for a given tournament, hasbro players have the same accessibility TT players have, i. e. they can buy beys the same way online.  

being a hasbro player is not some medical ailment or genetic condition.  they choose to use hasbro, instead of choosing to use TT, most of them proudly so (often thumping chests to slope reliability, etc, lol)

there should be absolutely zero credence to the idea of altering our rules with an ulterior motive of making things easier (or harder) for either brand's players

requiem S3 and G3 are just failed lazy products, that’s why they should be banned.  i’d say the same if TT made them.  

but picking and choosing when to apply the ban hammer should not be influenced in anyway by pity for a specific brand's players.  i’m sorry, but that is gangsterism.

Using Hasbro competitively is basically a handicap. Just unban TT and Hasbro Sr.