Unless, like Basalt, it'll wait to become "not OP" until new parts are released. I wasn't here when Basalt was released (heck, I didn't even show up until after Gladiator Bahamdia!), but from my understanding, it was only kept in play because it took so long to decide whether or not to ban it that TT actually released things that could counter it, without using any of the old parts.

Not to say that's what it's gonna take, but one can only wait so long.

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Yo have you seen LMAO results?

OK so translation: OP means overpowered for you non-gamers.
Also banning something that is abused is not really a bad thing so chill out Plastics Lover lol it is just that we don't want to see the same combo used over and over to literally dominate the meta, that is why there is a thread discussing the matter (2 actually)
I am currently swayed(haha pun XD) more in the banning direction just because I don't want to see dragooon F230 and Dragooon SA165 (apparently a known stamina counter since many are afraid of using attack or don't have 2 wyvangs/balros) in every other battle.

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Well, the problem is, LMAO's results just aren't consistent. But, now that he's posted his results, our results aren't either. The fact is, we don't know for now. It seems to work in one place, but not in another. Until we can identify the variable that's causing the gap in results, we really don't know whether or not certain counters are going to work for people.

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Wait...Plastics Lover, why did you quote my post and change it to 95% when it was actually 5%?

@theblackdragon, how are they not consistent?

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Revizer Dragooon F230CF vs. Killerken Dragooon SA165BWD
Dragooon SA165 launched first on all launches.
Dragooon F230: wins, 10/10 (1 SKO, 9 OS)
Dragooon SA165: wins, 0/10
Revizer Dragooon F230CF win rate: 100%

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Wait...Plastics Lover, why did you quote my post and change it to 95% when it was actually 5%?

@theblackdragon, how are they not consistent?

It is that your results aren't as consistent with other results, not that your results aren't consistent by themselves lol. Hmmm.. Maybe this is a Canadian thing where the SA165 variant is better than the F230CF/GCF, hahaha my conclusion.

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Wait...Plastics Lover, why did you quote my post and change it to 95% when it was actually 5%?

@theblackdragon, how are they not consistent?

Sorry about that. I mean to write that for RD.

I hope I'm not making anyone sort of mad, but I think I've found a new counter for Dragooon F230GCF/CF, at least for the red one, MSF Wyvang Dragooon SA165(Lower Mode)FB. It got a 70% win rate. According to LMAOs testing, this exact combo got 50% against an Orange F230 which is just 5% lower than the other possible counter, Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F, if anyone else can test this, it would be great. IMO I don't see why we need to ban this, it has at least some counters. At least in the Michigan Metagame, I've only heard F230GCF/CF being used once, and lost, so I can't really say.

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The difference is obviously caused by distance from the equator (Lols)

Also, did no one notice these results or are they just being ignored

Genbull Dragooon SA165 MB vs. Genbull Dragooon F230 GCf
SA165 MB: 17 wins
F230 GCf: 3 wins

I'd just like to say that Basalt was outclassed due to newer parts being released. That's not gonna happen in this situation now is it. Anyway as always with zero g we need more testing. That's the answer.

Time: Um... no. The thing many people are disregarding is that Dragooon F230 banking in Zero-G will utterly destroy most (if not all) Dragooon Stamina customs. All it takes is like ten minutes of practice, and then all you have to do is tilt your launcher a bit, knock the thing off-balance and you win! I have witnessed it happen on multiple occasions, both in tournaments and during testing.

I'd encourage someone to try this, and I may actually upload a video demonstrating the differences you can get in results if one person isn't launching it right.

Plus, you guys have to remember, we need a counter that's actually competitive. Dragooon MB is a recipe for disaster in any remotely normal metagame.

EDIT: I was just upstairs for a few minutes, doing some testing just to see if I'd gone crazy.

Genbull Dragooon F230GCF vs. Killerken Dragooon SA165BWD
Dragooon SA165 launched first on all launches. Genbull Dragooon banked.
Dragooon F230: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Dragooon SA165: wins, 0/10
Genbull Dragooon F230GCF win rate: 100%

Genbull Dragooon F230GCF vs. Killerken Dragooon SA165TB
Dragooon SA165 launched first on all launches. Genbull Dragooon banked.
Dragooon F230: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
Dragooon SA165: wins, 0/10
Genbull Dragooon F230GCF win rate: 100%

I was actually stunned at how easy these wins were for Dragooon F230... the SA165 variants didn't even have the slightest chance. I though it might've been my choice of CF over GCF that was causing the inconsistencies, but I was wrong. These customs were really and truly completely and utterly destroyed. Like, demolished.

That said, the only thing I could possibly think of being the cause is the launch. Just try banking (deeper than in BB-10 obviously, with the steeper slope), and see what happens.

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I shall post a video tomorrow of my testing, to prove that a Dragooon SA165BWD combo can defeat an F230 set up.

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Time: Um... no. The thing many people are disregarding is that Dragooon F230 banking in Zero-G will utterly destroy most (if not all) Dragooon Stamina customs. All it takes is like ten minutes of practice, and then all you have to do is tilt your launcher a bit, knock the thing off-balance and you win! I have witnessed it happen on multiple occasions, both in tournaments and during testing.

I'd encourage someone to try this, and I may actually upload a video demonstrating the differences you can get in results if one person isn't launching it right.

Plus, you guys have to remember, we need a counter that's actually competitive. Dragooon MB is a recipe for disaster in any remotely normal metagame.

EDIT: I was just upstairs for a few minutes, doing some testing just to see if I'd gone crazy.

Genbull Dragooon F230GCF vs. Killerken Dragooon SA165BWD
Dragooon SA165 launched first on all launches. Genbull Dragooon banked.
Dragooon F230: wins, 10/10 (All OS)
Dragooon SA165: wins, 0/10
Genbull Dragooon F230GCF win rate: 100%

Genbull Dragooon F230GCF vs. Killerken Dragooon SA165TB
Dragooon SA165 launched first on all launches. Genbull Dragooon banked.
Dragooon F230: wins, 10/10 (1 KO, 9 OS)
Dragooon SA165: wins, 0/10
Genbull Dragooon F230GCF win rate: 100%

I was actually stunned at how easy these wins were for Dragooon F230... the SA165 variants didn't even have the slightest chance. I though it might've been my choice of CF over GCF that was causing the inconsistencies, but I was wrong. These customs were really and truly completely and utterly destroyed. Like, demolished.

That said, the only thing I could possibly think of being the cause is the launch. Just try banking (deeper than in BB-10 obviously, with the steeper slope), and see what happens.

Dragooon stamina combos aren't going to work against left spin so I don't see how it's surprising.

I shall post a video tomorrow of my testing, to prove that a Dragooon SA165BWD combo can defeat an F230 set up.

Awesome! We can see what's different... I'm honestly getting confused, LOL.

I might be able to upload a video too, so we can compare and figure this out.

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I don,t see the point of banning F230 even if it were just banned from CF and GCF, there would just be something similar down the line. like B for example can beat just about anything but was out beat by F230GCF/CF, so the same thing would just happen again at some point,right?

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I don,t see the point of banning F230 even if it were just banned from CF and GCF, there would just be something similar down the line. like B for example can beat just about anything but was out beat by F230GCF/CF, so the same thing would just happen again at some point,right?

well, BD can't really beat anything. There are other options that are better, so the comparison doesn't really fit.

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So, in MD tournaments not to bash on him, but beymaster15963 had never before had a winning record in one of tournaments, he happened to purchase an especially good orange f230 and took first in the only one he's been to since obtaining one. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

So, in MD tournaments not to bash on him, but beymaster15963 had never before had a winning record in one of tournaments, he happened to purchase an especially good orange f230 and took first in the only one he's been to since obtaining one. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

The rest of the world does not know what the other combinations were like, if they were anywhere near at a sufficient level to compete with an F230 customization at all, plus you do have to remember that, as was mentioned previously in this topic, it does take some time to adapt to a situation and counter, so if this was the first occurrence in Maryland, just give people some time.

Sorry, I guess I should have said it a little more obviously, F230 has been wrecking MD for months and if the acquisition of one can elevate a player from near the bottom of a tournament to first, well.... I guess you can say its a serious difference maker

I don,t see the point of banning F230 even if it were just banned from CF and GCF, there would just be something similar down the line. like B for example can beat just about anything but was out beat by F230GCF/CF, so the same thing would just happen again at some point,right?

well, BD can't really beat anything. There are other options that are better, so the comparison doesn't really fit.

I don,t know what BD you,re using,but the example was not the point i was trying to make.

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Here are a few of my tests with MSF-L Girago Genbull SA165 GF in a BB-10.

Standard Procedure and Alternating Shots starting with Girago Genbull. SA165 was in Zero G Attack Mode. The reason is that I found that SA165 (ZGA) + GF = Maximum Recession + LAD.

MSF-L Girago Genbull SA165 GF vs MSF-H Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

Girago Genbull: 13/20 (10 KO, 3 OS)
Genbull Dragooon: 7/20 (2 KO, 5 OS)

Girago Genbull Win Rate: 65 %

I don,t see the point of banning F230 even if it were just banned from CF and GCF, there would just be something similar down the line. like B for example can beat just about anything but was out beat by F230GCF/CF, so the same thing would just happen again at some point,right?

well, BD can't really beat anything. There are other options that are better, so the comparison doesn't really fit.

I don,t know what BD you,re using,but the example was not the point i was trying to make.

Yeah because the comparison between an amazing part and a sub part one really fits...

@Maryland: What did I tell you? You've got Aurapeo, Stars, Geester, and Sniper all up there, and some kid decides to pull out an F230 and wrecks the all, just because he's willing to overuse it! If that's not overpowered, I don't know what is.

Time, exactly how has F230 been wrecking MD and for how long?

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Other than me, all of the placers since June have used F230, just look at the winning combinations thread. I mean I guess it was kind of an evening the playing field type thing, but still, one part should not make that much of a difference in one's tournament performance. Exactly, I wasn't at the tournament where this happened, but from what I heard he used nothing but it and those guys lost because they do use things besides f230.