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[Takara Tomy]  Perfect Phoenix testing thread

Feb. 06, 2019  5:34 AM
 
But Finally got pP, my impression are the following:
-pretty round
-small gaps
-obviously heavy
-pretty wide

Started some testing:

Conditions: weak launch both. 20 rounds planned.

(LC)pP.0C.Xt+(stamina) vs 
(LC)(10 blade)hS.0W.Br

pP.0C.Xt+   8 OS (8 wins) 40% win rate
hS.0W.Br.   12OS (12 wins) 60% win rate
10 ties replayed 

Video (warning! 15+mins, no edits): https://youtu.be/2Sy0MRSZpQ4

This match up is pretty even in my opinion.

Test 2:  10 rounds, Go Shoot Combo Grip for same spin test. 

(LC)pP.0C.Xt+(stamina) vs 
(LC)aH.7C.Xt+(stamina)

pP.0C.Xt+   7OS (7wins)  70% win rate 
aH.7C.Xt+  3OS (3 wins) 30% win rate 

Video: https://youtu.be/IKwEJEuqTds
Feb. 06, 2019  8:44 PM
 
Not surprised Perfect Phoenix seems to beat Archer Hercules given the weight advantage. Thanks for the tests!

However, I personally find 0 to be better than 7 so maybe that contributed as well (I know for some people it's the opposite, though).
Feb. 07, 2019  12:01 AM
 
(Feb. 06, 2019  8:44 PM)Kei Wrote: Not surprised Perfect Phoenix seems to beat Archer Hercules given the weight advantage. Thanks for the tests!

However, I personally find 0 to be better than 7 so maybe that contributed as well (I know for some people it's the opposite, though).
Wait a minute...Are you saying that the Wiki is incorrect? If the number 1 blader on the Wbo thinks 0 is better then 7, then how come nobody has bothered to change it?
Feb. 07, 2019  12:15 AM
 
I think due to part variation it is just hard to definitively say 7 disk is better than 0 disk for everyone or vice versa. The 7 disk is used in this test is what I consider to me one of my best. It balanced really well with one of my older aH layers (although that one has gone to heaven) and it is quite heavy for 7. Iirc it weighs 23.6 grams. Meanwhile I have a 0 disk from this dP release that weigh 22.1 g....
Feb. 07, 2019  12:28 AM
 
(Feb. 07, 2019  12:15 AM)Shindog Wrote: I think due to part variation it is just hard to definitively say 7 disk is better than 0 disk for everyone or vice versa. The 7 disk is used in this test  is what I consider to me one of my best.  It balanced really well with one of my older aH layers (although that one has gone to heaven) and it is quite heavy for 7.  Iirc it weighs 23.6 grams.  Meanwhile I have a 0 disk from this dP release that weigh 22.1 g....
Peterpig had the same problem with dP 0 disk. It seems that maybe all dP 0 disks are bad.
Feb. 07, 2019  12:42 AM
 
Great test. If possible can you try pP vs hS 10W Br? From my testing I found out 10Wall to have highest precession of any of disk/frame setup I own (and I have almost all of them. I have everything except 00, T and E frames. Of them 00 and T are on the way. E should come soon too Smile) For whatever reason 10W also seems to scrape less than 0W. Maybe 00 can be better than 10. I heard from alot of people that 00 has best precession. You can use whichever seems better to you.

Also why 7C instead of Outer?
Feb. 07, 2019  12:59 AM
 
(Feb. 07, 2019  12:42 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Great test. If possible can you try pP vs hS 10W Br? From my testing I found out 10Wall to have highest precession of any of disk/frame setup I own (and I have almost all of them. I have everything except 00, T and E frames. Of them 00 and T are on the way. E should come soon too :)) For whatever reason 10W also seems to scrape less than 0W. Maybe 00 can be better than 10. I heard from alot of people that 00 has best precession. You can use whichever seems better to you.

Also why 7C instead of Outer?
7C I feel gives me better same spin stamina.  It out weighs outer and maybe that is why.  Outer has great weight distribution but minus frame and the fact that is is about 22g it gives up a lot of weight.

Also, I know many other ppl will disagree. But I have always felt Outer has poor burst reaistance.  I noticed this especially in aH.  aH on 7/10/0 are just harder to burst for me than outer.  I can’t give an explanation.  It’s just an observation.
Feb. 07, 2019  3:29 AM
 
(Feb. 07, 2019  12:59 AM)Shindog Wrote: 7C I feel gives me better same spin stamina.  It out weighs outer and maybe that is why.  Outer has great weight distribution but minus frame and the fact that is is about 22g it gives up a lot of weight.

Also, I know many other ppl will disagree. But I have always felt Outer has poor burst reaistance.  I noticed this especially in aH.  aH on 7/10/0 are just harder to burst for me than outer.  I can’t give an explanation.  It’s just an observation.

Generally speaking I think that using no Frame is often better for same spin matchups on Drivers like Xt+, Br, R, etc ... when I was in Japan players always removed their Frames when they ran into a same spin matchup with these Drivers (because you're allowed to do that there for some reason).

I would tend to agree regarding Ωuter just based on my own feeling/observations, although it would be nice to see someone do some formal testing on this. I'm not sure how big the difference is. I do feel Ωuter is better for same spin matchups, but I haven't done direct testing comparisons in a while now.

In the end a lot of this stuff is so close and part variations to play a factor ...
Feb. 07, 2019  6:07 AM
 
(Feb. 07, 2019  3:29 AM)Kei Wrote: In the end a lot of this stuff is so close and part variations to play a factor ...

I feel part variation has increased somewhat recently.  The OO disk weight apparently ranges from 21.2g (one was given away a tournament Kingspin Participated in) to 25.8 g (one sold in yahoo auction for near $200).  I mean....these two extreme OO disks are going to perform somewhat differently. 

I am only just learning about MFB so it was shocking for me to read about 7 min B:Ds and only owning 3-4 min B:Ds myself.  I guess part variation will always be a thing.
(Feb. 07, 2019  3:29 AM)Kei Wrote: Generally speaking I think that using no Frame is often better for same spin matchups on Drivers like Xt+, Br, R, etc ... when I was in Japan players always removed their Frames when they ran into a same spin matchup with these Drivers (because you're allowed to do that there for some reason).
I haven’t tested frame vs no frame in same spin extensively as I mostly play in WBO tournaments.  My feeling on using a frame like cross, glaive and Star in same spin comes from how aH.7.Et was used in Taiwan.  There were good players in Taiwan who would attach star/cross frame on aH.7.Et.  They would keep frame on for same spin match and remove the frame in opposite spin.  They’d start the match with the frame because removing a frame is kinda like a mode change for them.  You can’t start without frame and then add a frame of course.  I guess this is anime accurate....  

I never truly tested this extensively since I don’t usually get to remove frames. I would think in same spin match ups of let’s say 0W.Br you might want to remove the wall frame.  But I’d assumed that if the frame is not a big scraping risk the extra weight might be helpful.
I did a quick test using (LC)aH.7.ET vs (LC)aH.7C.Et
The conditions are
1) 10 rounds, after 5 rounds aH layers swapped.  Both Et are pretty new. (Probably should have swapped them too after swapping layers...but seeing this not being too much of a thing in the WBO...)
2) Go Shoot combo launcher grip with 2x B-88 launcher

My results are:
(LC)aH.7.Et vs (LC)aH.7C.Et
7C    7 wins by OS
7       3 wins by OS
I throw out one round of bad launch

Video:  https://youtu.be/69LomkF1jeQ

I should also say I did test aH.Ω.Et against both aH.7/7C.Et and Ω disk beat 7 and 7C easily.

Added another test with Revolve:

(LC)aH.7C.R vs (LC)aH.7.R
7C   8 wins by OS
7     2 wins by OS

Video: https://youtu.be/Xc4xgkuHcEo
Feb. 08, 2019  9:31 PM
 
I got similar results in the hS vs pP matchup
Feb. 09, 2019  1:33 AM
 
I've been comparing the performance of pP.Outer.Et/Xt+ vs pP.0G.At, and I've seen that the heavier combo does fare more wins against top tier combos I've got (based from compiled lists of competitive combos in the forum.
Feb. 09, 2019  4:00 AM
 
(Feb. 07, 2019  6:07 AM)Shindog Wrote: I guess this is anime accurate....  

Oh wow, I didn't realize they do this in the anime. That's terrible lol.

(Feb. 07, 2019  6:07 AM)Shindog Wrote: I never truly tested this extensively since I don’t usually get to remove frames. I would think in same spin match ups of let’s say 0W.Br you might want to remove the wall frame.  But I’d assumed that if the frame is not a big scraping risk the extra weight might be helpful.

Yeah, I guess it's important to note that all instances of this that I can remember from Japan were with like Lift Bearing. In all other cases it was always Ωuter Eternal, Ωuter Revolve, etc. This would seem to make sense given your tests showing that Ωuter beats 7 and 7C.

Still, interesting to see that 7C was beating 7. For opposite spin match-ups though, I think 7 on Et will do better than 7C, which is why most people always don't use a Frame.
Feb. 09, 2019  4:07 AM
 
(Feb. 09, 2019  4:00 AM)Kei Wrote: Still, interesting to see that 7C was beating 7. For opposite spin match-ups though, I think 7 on Et will do better than 7C, which is why most people always don't use a Frame.
I do have 7.Et beating 7C.Et in opposite spin just as you said and outer still beating both. Outer seems to be very good on Et.  Only issue I have had is the slight drop in burst resistance. I don’t actually have tests to prove it though.
Aug. 20, 2019  11:28 PM
 
Can you test Pp Outer xtend+(stamina) vs Pp 00 Atomic.
I wonder why most competition mostly used Xtend+. Thanks
Aug. 21, 2019  2:21 AM
 
(Aug. 20, 2019  11:28 PM)imgcreation Wrote: Can you test Pp Outer xtend+(stamina) vs Pp 00 Atomic.
I wonder why most competition mostly used Xtend+. Thanks

Pp Outer Eternal is much safer than Pp Outer Xtend+
Aug. 21, 2019  2:23 AM
 
(Aug. 21, 2019  2:21 AM)Syazwan Wrote:
(Aug. 20, 2019  11:28 PM)imgcreation Wrote: Can you test Pp Outer xtend+(stamina) vs Pp 00 Atomic.
I wonder why most competition mostly used Xtend+. Thanks

Pp Outer Eternal is much safer than Pp Outer Xtend+
 I’m pretty sure pP.00C.Xt+ is better than both of those.
Aug. 21, 2019  2:25 AM
 
(Aug. 21, 2019  2:23 AM)Dash Driver Wrote:
(Aug. 21, 2019  2:21 AM)Syazwan Wrote: Pp Outer Eternal is much safer than Pp Outer Xtend+
 I’m pretty sure pP.00C.Xt+ is better than both of those.

???

Then try pP.00P.Et
Aug. 25, 2019  2:44 PM
 
I think pP.00P.Xt+ is also okay.
Aug. 26, 2019  4:58 AM
 
(Aug. 21, 2019  2:25 AM)Syazwan Wrote:
(Aug. 21, 2019  2:23 AM)Dash Driver Wrote:  I’m pretty sure pP.00C.Xt+ is better than both of those.

???

Then try pP.00P.Et

Having a Frame with Eternal is just going to destroy its LAD.


(Aug. 25, 2019  2:44 PM)Syazwan Wrote: I think pP.00P.Xt+ is also okay.

Replace Proof with Cross and you're good to go.
Aug. 26, 2019  8:02 AM
 
I'm also still looking for the best pP combo. So far I found combos which depending to the opponent combos only. If wanted to outspin CzS.00W.Br, need to use certain combos. However, if to outspin dH, required to use another combos
Sep. 30, 2019  5:31 PM
 
Sorry, I forgot to see how the other can use certain combinations. So far, I'm always using pP.00.At in our local tournament. It's much safer to encounter Judgement Diabolos with Xtreme'/Qc' (not encounter other type of attacking driver with that layer) or CzS/hS 00W/Vn Br.

A little bit problem if encountering Heaven Diabolos.Bl.At but still can overcame it by launching pP with an angle
Sep. 30, 2019  6:32 PM
 
Can someone test pP 00C Xt+ vs JD Bl Octa?
Oct. 01, 2019  8:06 AM
 
(Sep. 30, 2019  5:31 PM)Syazwan Wrote: Sorry, I forgot to see how the other can use certain combinations. So far, I'm always using pP.00.At in our local tournament. It's much safer to encounter Judgement Diabolos with Xtreme'/Qc' (not encounter other type of attacking driver with that layer) or CzS/hS 00W/Vn Br.

A little bit problem if encountering Heaven Diabolos.Bl.At but still can overcame it by launching pP with an angle

Give it a frame or use sting as the disk instead.
Nov. 02, 2019  4:00 AM
 
(Oct. 01, 2019  8:06 AM)Ash_Ketchum_007 Wrote:
(Sep. 30, 2019  5:31 PM)Syazwan Wrote: Sorry, I forgot to see how the other can use certain combinations. So far, I'm always using pP.00.At in our local tournament. It's much safer to encounter Judgement Diabolos with Xtreme'/Qc' (not encounter other type of attacking driver with that layer) or CzS/hS 00W/Vn Br.

A little bit problem if encountering Heaven Diabolos.Bl.At but still can overcame it by launching pP with an angle

Give it a frame or use sting as the disk instead.

Thank you. So far, my side found pP.Bl.Om is also quite strong
Nov. 03, 2019  5:33 PM
 
My unbeatable one is Pp Sting Atomic
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