So just clarifying here, You feel that Ko's should be worth 2 points in the first stage formats as well, even when being used in the first stage and not just the top cut?

Correct. Increased attack usage all around = increased variety and diversity of parts and combos used = decreased hour-long draw sessions.

So, for this one a lot of people seem to like the idea of making the usage of the DB stadium for ranked tournaments a separate format entirely. Which I don't see being an issue. From what you are saying here I'm just trying to understand if you are saying it would need to be part of a different ranking system entirely or if it should be part of the already established ranking system just as a different format?

Different system entirely would be my ideal.. I think I'm a minority in that, though. I could see why people would prefer a different format instead, as it is less extreme of a change. Sort of like MFB Limited and MFB Standard, which we already have a set precedent for. 

Either way, there needs to be some distinction between Standard and events that see the use of DB instead.

Here I just want to clarify that you understood what I said. Just because I read the part where you talk about switching it between sets. Which to me is also a good idea and another way this could be handled. But I was approaching it the same way as the WBBA where after you reveal your combos to each other during the Selection Phase you then would be allowed to mode change, and this would include spin rotation changing. It's just I'm saying after you decide to change it you can't change it back until after the reshuffle and you’re in the next set of battles.

For 3on3? I don't know what you mean.. You'll have to explain. In the 3on3 format everything is initially hidden, so the only opportunity you would have to make a more informed decision is after the first go around with each deck?

If you could see each other's decks and order in advance, using something like Drift that can nearly ensure a draw or free point would not make sense.

This is what I have been looking for to be honest. I had the hardest time trying to think of definitions for these 2 rules. For the spinning definition this is the closest to the WBBA as I could get it. I get the concern for things like Ultimate with how it could fall more at the end because of its shape and under this rule it would be considered a win. However, I was trying a stationary attacker with Ultimate on Hxt+' and I had it against Vanish also on Hxt+' and I don't think I had many battles where it was that close to where I needed to check the footage for an out spin. I think where Ultimate’s shape does help with those split-second last-minute falls and could get points that way, I think it's very far and few between the ones that do happen like this. I feel as if the WBBA's definitions hurt us over here because we are so competitive that we want every single edge to be in our favor so we can get the win. Nothing is going to be so sound that it will be able to accommodate every blade, every driver, or every disk and how they perform. So, if a part comes out that has a bit of an edge let it have that edge. Eventually something will probably come out that takes that edge away completely.
 
So on the Knock-Out definition I'm a little confused. It seems as if you are saying that under this rule if a bey hits the corner where the back wall and side wall of the pocket meet that it wouldn't be a Knock-out because it hit the corner and not the back wall. Is that correct?

Perhaps? I think that mostly just rules-out Ultimate's use on HXt+' for this purpose. I had it fall over regularly enough on Bearing pseudo mirror matches.

As for Knock-Outs, yes, I am taking your rule literally. Back wall and corner back are different things. 

Mentioning this distinction existing and that is also counts as a Knock-Out would prevent people arguing "Well the rule says back wall only, and this was actually closer to the side wall" when it is evident the Beyblade was hit with enough force and in an orientation that it was no longer making contact with the dish with its Driver.

Since this is a draft, I knew there might have been some things I forgot to type down that were in my head but I might of forgot to physically type them. So, thank you for bringing this up. I had one of 2 ideas in my head, and that was either to make it so the players must always announce when they are going to mode change, or just add a "Mode Change Phase" where after both bladers reveal their combo, both players MUST turn around and preform all mode changes they wish to preform for that Battle within a time frame of say 20-30 seconds. Then after that time is up, they can reveal their bey again in the modes it will be launched in for that battle. I don't know which would be easier or better, but i think one of them would be the best way to do it.

Yea, no problem. Give it some thought and refine this process a bit to where it is more streamlined for both players and judges.

---

shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Correct. Increased attack usage all around = increased variety and diversity of parts and combos used = decreased hour-long draw sessions.

So I can accept this. This is one of those that I don't mind either way. I'm fine if they wanted to make KO's 2 points for all formats First and Final Stage, or 1 point for first stage and 2 points for top cut.

Different system entirely would be my ideal.. I think I'm a minority in that, though. I could see why people would prefer a different format instead, as it is less extreme of a change. Sort of like MFB Limited and MFB Standard, which we already have a set precedent for. 

Either way, there needs to be some distinction between Standard and events that see the use of DB instead.

So I feel that in order for this to work it would have to be an entirely different ranking system all together. If it wasn't a different ranking system entirely then the argument that using the DB stadium would skew the rankings with the Standard stadium would be mute. 

For 3on3? I don't know what you mean.. You'll have to explain. In the 3on3 format everything is initially hidden, so the only opportunity you would have to make a more informed decision is after the first go around with each deck?

If you could see each other's decks and order in advance, using something like Drift that can nearly ensure a draw or free point would not make sense.

The idea of being able to change your rotation is only in the 3v3 format. This is because when 2 bladers come up to battle their decks and orders are hidden from eachother. When they both revieal which bey they are using for that battle they would be able to mode change and that would include changing spin direction, because both bladers would only be allowed 1 spin direction chaning layer they can only sway the direction into their favor for that 1 battle of the set. So if I change my spin direcion for 1 battle and get the point I still need to get the other 2 points with my other 2 beys in my deck in orer to win. But because it's random and even my opponent could have a bey that changes spin direction I'm not guarenteed all 3 points on the first set. So then we would have to do a reshuffle and preform a second set of battles. Now that a new set of battles has started if I use my rotation changing bey again I can change it's spin again if I wish. But depending on points it still might not guarentee me the full match win. 

This is why I made it so it would ONLY be allowed in the 3v3 format. Becuse in all the other formats it would be overpowered even if you could only switch it 1 time. 

Perhaps? I think that mostly just rules-out Ultimate's use on HXt+' for this purpose. I had it fall over regularly enough on Bearing pseudo mirror matches.

As for Knock-Outs, yes, I am taking your rule literally. Back wall and corner back are different things. 

Mentioning this distinction existing and that is also counts as a Knock-Out would prevent people arguing "Well the rule says back wall only, and this was actually closer to the side wall when it is evident the Beyblade was hit with enough force and in an orientation that it was no longer making contact with the dish with its Driver.

Either way I think it would be fine if some parts had a little edge. I still don't think it would be enough of an edge that they would completely dominate the game.

So this is where I'm confused. You say people will argue with saying "Well the rule says back wall only, and this was actually closer to the side wall" when no where in my proposal does it use the word "only". This is what it says...

"At the Judge’s discretion: If a Beyblade hits the back pocket wall of the BeyStadium Standard Type or the back pocket wall of the Dynamite Battle BeyStadium Standard Type after coming into contact with the opposing Beyblade, anytime during the battle and bounces back in, it will be considered to have left the Play Area resulting in a knock-out.

Now with the circular shape of beyblades it will physically be impossible for a beyblade to hit the corners of the pockets that connects the side aand back pocket walls without hitting the back wall. So with that they hit the back wall and would have then been considered to have let the "Play-Area". I also have a line in there that says "At the Judge's discretion:" that allows the Judges to make the call on their own as to weather or not they felt like the Beyblade would have left the Play area if that back wall had not been there.

---

Why’s the DB Stadium getting so much hate? Attack types aren’t the only beyblades that people use.

What’s the problem with expanding your horizons and finding ways to win no matter the stadium?

That’s why mike.Nightwing ‘s Blader’s Kingdom tournaments are so fun because you have to think outside of the box.

Btw I agree with the stance that the stadium kills ‘rubber flats’ but not ALL attack drivers. Beyblade is always unpredictable and you can still get some crazy matches, hits, and knockouts in that stadium without using Xtreme or Quick. Just sayin

Why’s the DB Stadium getting so much hate? Attack types aren’t the only beyblades that people use.

What’s the problem with expanding your horizons and finding ways to win no matter the stadium?

That’s why mike.Nightwing ‘s Blader’s Kingdom tournaments are so fun because you have to think outside of the box.

Btw I agree with the stance that the stadium kills ‘rubber flats’ but not ALL attack drivers. Beyblade is always unpredictable and you can still get some crazy matches, hits, and knockouts in that stadium without using Xtreme or Quick. Just sayin

THIS!

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

I remember at the one event, it was DB 3v3. I think this was in October sometime? But anyways the reason I bring this up is because I’ve actually used it and seen it in action.
1. We had much more stamina play.

2. Even the good attack combos for this dish (from what I’ve been told, one I’m referring to is guilty on over venture+v) did absolutely nothing to me personally. I did not get koed once the entire day that wasn’t me launching directly into the pocket from what should’ve been a mislaunch that I was too late to call (I did this once) . I was even using MFB remakes which are some 20 grams lighter than the average burst standard combo if I remember right.
I just want to see every type viable and honestly? I don’t think even the attack you guys recommend make the cut against a player who launches in front of one of the walls. (I do not mean any offense in that last statement, please do not take it that way)

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I need a shot again, that sweet Adrenaline. 

I remember at the one event, it was DB 3v3. I think this was in October sometime? But anyways the reason I bring this up is because I’ve actually used it and seen it in action.
1. We had much more stamina play.

2. Even the good attack combos for this dish (from what I’ve been told, one I’m referring to is guilty on over venture+v) did absolutely nothing to me personally. I did not get koed once the entire day that wasn’t me launching directly into the pocket from what should’ve been a mislaunch that I was too late to call (I did this once) . I was even using MFB remakes which are some 20 grams lighter than the average burst standard combo if I remember right.
I just want to see every type viable and honestly? I don’t think even the attack you guys recommend make the cut against a player who launches in front of one of the walls. (I do not mean any offense in that last statement, please do not take it that way)

I think the event you are talking about was the Four-Gaming one. I’ll be 100% honest with you. At that tournament I definitely used double Bearing and a Zone’+Z combo. However, that tournament there was decent prizing so I didn’t take the time to really focus on attack types because it wasn’t something I was comfortable using at the time. (I have grown more comfortable with them.) I did do a DB only tournament a little before the Four-Gaming one, where I used nothing but guilty on different drivers so I could see how well it worked. Honestly that day Destroy’ and Venture+V did the most amount of work for me. They got KOs just fine. However, now that I think about it, the tournament I hosted to test out the DB stadium we were messing with different orientations as to how the stadium should be sat. We did find that having it more at an angle gave the possibility of more KOs. So maybe that’s another testing aspect that should be taken into consideration for the DB stadium. Weather it’s for using it in regular Standard or making it into its own format.

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Why’s the DB Stadium getting so much hate? Attack types aren’t the only beyblades that people use.

What’s the problem with expanding your horizons and finding ways to win no matter the stadium?

That’s why mike.Nightwing ‘s Blader’s Kingdom tournaments are so fun because you have to think outside of the box.

Btw I agree with the stance that the stadium kills ‘rubber flats’ but not ALL attack drivers. Beyblade is always unpredictable and you can still get some crazy matches, hits, and knockouts in that stadium without using Xtreme or Quick. Just sayin

They sure aren't the only types people use - but those other types also work fine in B09. 2 Stadiums where stamina works, 1 stadium where dedicated attack works... Can ya see the issue? Makes it significantly harder for attack users to accrue points if they are at a disadvantage in or avoiding other tournaments - or points aside, would likely give them less tournaments to do what they like.

In your last point you're confusing balance drivers with attack drivers. Keep seeing this. 

That said, I'm mostly fine with db as its own format. Given how vastly different it is to traditional beyblade, it falls into the same category as Zero G stadiums for me. While this doesn't fix the point issue, nor the possibility of db becoming dominant, it does allow us the same clarity that we have with ZG at the moment. Tbh, I might be tempted to suggest splitting points ladders across formats and then using a unified cross format rank for the display on posts. That would be a massive change and require a lot of coding of course.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

This is probably a bad take, but... doesn't the Limit Break DX stadium fit into most of the current arguments in favor of the DB stadium (Size, shakes up the meta, etc)? Yet I haven't seen anyone raring to use it in a tournament setting... 🤔

Why’s the DB Stadium getting so much hate? Attack types aren’t the only beyblades that people use.

What’s the problem with expanding your horizons and finding ways to win no matter the stadium?

That’s why mike.Nightwing ‘s Blader’s Kingdom tournaments are so fun because you have to think outside of the box.

Btw I agree with the stance that the stadium kills ‘rubber flats’ but not ALL attack drivers. Beyblade is always unpredictable and you can still get some crazy matches, hits, and knockouts in that stadium without using Xtreme or Quick. Just sayin

They sure aren't the only types people use - but those other types also work fine in B09. 2 Stadiums where stamina works, 1 stadium where dedicated attack works... Can ya see the issue? Makes it significantly harder for attack users to accrue points if they are at a disadvantage in or avoiding other tournaments - or points aside, would likely give them less tournaments to do what they like.

In your last point you're confusing balance drivers with attack drivers. Keep seeing this. 

That said, I'm mostly fine with db as its own format. Given how vastly different it is to traditional beyblade, it falls into the same category as Zero G stadiums for me. While this doesn't fix the point issue, nor the possibility of db becoming dominant, it does allow us the same clarity that we have with ZG at the moment. Tbh, I might be tempted to suggest splitting points ladders across formats and then using a unified cross format rank for the display on posts. That would be a massive change and require a lot of coding of course.

I agree with dividing the points up for different formats. Also I’d like to see them reset each year so new bladers have a chance to reach the #1 spot. 

I do believe if this becomes its own format it won’t really solve the issue of bladers refusing to attend tournamts because of the stadium. There will definitely need to be more organizers added to each community so each desired format gets its playtime. I enjoyed playing metal and standard this past weekend but The Supreme One and FriedPasta are the only ones that host them in MD and that’s like every 4 months or so, so I don’t really practice with them until the night before 😂😂.

---

This is probably a bad take, but... doesn't the Limit Break DX stadium fit into most of the current arguments in favor of the DB stadium (Size, shakes up the meta, etc)? Yet I haven't seen anyone raring to use it in a tournament setting... 🤔

That stadium is even harder to get people to like lol. I know a lot of folks don’t have it simply because they didn’t buy the DX set; it is now $50 on Beys&Bricks so that’s very convenient. But I have learned to love that stadium. It is great for attack types and the pocket design helps defense and stamina types survive the onslaught.

They used the DX, DB, and wide type in a beyblade tournament in Japan and it seemed to be just as fun. I think folks over here aren’t really enjoying the game as it was designed.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

The game is designed to sell product including new stadiums. We are lucky enough to not profit from that so we can try to focus on balanced gameplay in our stadium choice.

There are situations I wouldn't be opposed to Any Stadium. I did discuss this with organisers on discord. That would be in a massive expansion in scale of our tournaments and organisation as a whole. I don't think we're at that point yet, and the WBO's whole thing is being the Gold Standard - stringent in how we handle our leaderboard.

While I realise that being okay with db format doesn't match my own complaints... I want to keep "Burst Standard" as fairly balanced as possible. But it's like ZG. People wanted to play it so we made a format. Apparently people want to play DB, I would rather it be its own thing so people don't just get db stadiums to host in and go "well that's all I need for standard". I guess, anyway. For the most part I just see it as analogous to Zero G and if people want to play it, I would treat it that way. The ideal for me is that people would not want to play in such a woeful arena 😅

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I use the white Pro series stadium cause I don't have standard nor DB stadium

---

I will forever make Top Gun references

I use the white Pro series stadium cause I don't have standard nor DB stadium

So if you can’t even become an organizer and grow your ranking because of that limitation. I feel like the standard stadium is a bit of a gatekeeper.

---

The game is designed to sell product including new stadiums.  We are lucky enough to not profit from that so we can try to focus on balanced gameplay in our stadium choice.

There are situations I wouldn't be opposed to Any Stadium. I did discuss this with organisers on discord. That would be in a massive expansion in scale of our tournaments and organisation as a whole. I don't think we're at that point yet, and the WBO's whole thing is being the Gold Standard - stringent in how we handle our leaderboard.

While I realise that being okay with db format doesn't match my own complaints... I want to keep "Burst Standard" as fairly balanced as possible. But it's like ZG. People wanted to play it so we made a format. Apparently people want to play DB, I would rather it be its own thing so people don't just get db stadiums to host in and go "well that's all I need for standard". I guess, anyway. For the most part I just see it as analogous to Zero G and if people want to play it, I would treat it that way. The ideal for me is that people would not want to play in such a woeful arena 😅

Even as a separate format a host that wanted to do only DB would just need a DB stadium. We need folks in the individual communities to work together and plot out their formats. Let’s say every month are three tournaments in an area; one standard, one metal, and one DB. I just feel like the standard stadium is gatekeeping new players from hosting.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

I use the white Pro series stadium cause I don't have standard nor DB stadium

So if you can’t even become an organizer and grow your ranking because of that limitation. I feel like the standard stadium is a bit of a gatekeeper.

---

The game is designed to sell product including new stadiums.  We are lucky enough to not profit from that so we can try to focus on balanced gameplay in our stadium choice.

There are situations I wouldn't be opposed to Any Stadium. I did discuss this with organisers on discord. That would be in a massive expansion in scale of our tournaments and organisation as a whole. I don't think we're at that point yet, and the WBO's whole thing is being the Gold Standard - stringent in how we handle our leaderboard.

While I realise that being okay with db format doesn't match my own complaints... I want to keep "Burst Standard" as fairly balanced as possible. But it's like ZG. People wanted to play it so we made a format. Apparently people want to play DB, I would rather it be its own thing so people don't just get db stadiums to host in and go "well that's all I need for standard". I guess, anyway. For the most part I just see it as analogous to Zero G and if people want to play it, I would treat it that way. The ideal for me is that people would not want to play in such a woeful arena 😅

Even as a separate format a host that wanted to do only DB would just need a DB stadium. We need folks in the individual communities to work together and plot out their formats. Let’s say every month are three tournaments in an area; one standard, one metal, and one DB. I just feel like the standard stadium is gatekeeping new players from hosting.

I ain't a new player but imma prob save up for a DB stadium

---

I will forever make Top Gun references

I use the white Pro series stadium cause I don't have standard nor DB stadium

So if you can’t even become an organizer and grow your ranking because of that limitation. I feel like the standard stadium is a bit of a gatekeeper.

---

The game is designed to sell product including new stadiums.  We are lucky enough to not profit from that so we can try to focus on balanced gameplay in our stadium choice.

There are situations I wouldn't be opposed to Any Stadium. I did discuss this with organisers on discord. That would be in a massive expansion in scale of our tournaments and organisation as a whole. I don't think we're at that point yet, and the WBO's whole thing is being the Gold Standard - stringent in how we handle our leaderboard.

While I realise that being okay with db format doesn't match my own complaints... I want to keep "Burst Standard" as fairly balanced as possible. But it's like ZG. People wanted to play it so we made a format. Apparently people want to play DB, I would rather it be its own thing so people don't just get db stadiums to host in and go "well that's all I need for standard". I guess, anyway. For the most part I just see it as analogous to Zero G and if people want to play it, I would treat it that way. The ideal for me is that people would not want to play in such a woeful arena 😅

Even as a separate format a host that wanted to do only DB would just need a DB stadium. We need folks in the individual communities to work together and plot out their formats. Let’s say every month are three tournaments in an area; one standard, one metal, and one DB. I just feel like the standard stadium is gatekeeping new players from hosting.

Why DB? Right now, DB, B09, and Haspro all cost me the same price. I just got a deal on a b09 thatade it half the price of the rest. Haspro goes on sale regularly. Haspro I can buy in a store. DB stadium has had a short production run and as the series ends it's going to be equally scarce or scarcer than B09. If organisers can get a db they can usually get a B09 and they're nowhere near as expensive as people seem to think. But people who can't buy online can only get Haspro. I don't like the stadium but if you are going to talk accessibility as your argument, the bad stadium where, if ruled correctly, traditional attack is still usable which can be bought in stores is still a better stadium than the bizarre mess of a stadium that has the exact same accessibility issue as b09. I think it's an awful stadium. I think DB is worse.

If we are to make a second stadium legal in standard it should be haspro in fairness to those who can't buy online. I don't like it but I don't think db is the answer. If you rule haspro sensibly, ie "if the pocket wasn't there it would be a KO, so it's a KO" it's workable. If you make db stadium legal... You should look at just making any stadium legal IMO. At least any official stadium from either brand.

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

So if you can’t even become an organizer and grow your ranking because of that limitation. I feel like the standard stadium is a bit of a gatekeeper.

---

Even as a separate format a host that wanted to do only DB would just need a DB stadium. We need folks in the individual communities to work together and plot out their formats. Let’s say every month are three tournaments in an area; one standard, one metal, and one DB. I just feel like the standard stadium is gatekeeping new players from hosting.

Why DB? Right now, DB, B09, and Haspro all cost me the same price. I just got a deal on a b09 thatade it half the price of the rest. Haspro goes on sale regularly. Haspro I can buy in a store. DB stadium has had a short production run and as the series ends it's going to be equally scarce or scarcer than B09. If organisers can get a db they can usually get a B09 and they're nowhere near as expensive as people seem to think. But people who can't buy online can only get Haspro. I don't like the stadium but if you are going to talk accessibility as your argument, the bad stadium where, if ruled correctly, traditional attack is still usable which can be bought in stores is still a better stadium than the bizarre mess of a stadium that has the exact same accessibility issue as b09. I think it's an awful stadium. I think DB is worse.

If we are to make a second stadium legal in standard it should be haspro in fairness to those who can't buy online. I don't like it but I don't think db is the answer. If you rule haspro sensibly, ie "if the pocket wasn't there it would be a KO, so it's a KO" it's workable. If you make db stadium legal... You should look at just making any stadium legal IMO. At least any official stadium from either brand.

I’m sure you recall me mentioning using only the Haspro stadium for all standard in the discord the other day. I believe the resistance was there in the form of “the pockets suck” and “the ridge makes attack types bad”, or something along those lines.

I believe organizers that don’t already have the B-09 are at a disadvantage because they can only really do unranked. I was talking to crisis Cruisher and he mentioned making all stadiums legal for ranked to help every have a fair chance at a ranking and I’m all for it. If the stadium is announced in the tournament thread when it’s posted then bladers can choose to attend or not attend. I personally would play in a wooden bowl if that’s what we’re doing, I’m indifferent about stadiums, I’m just there to get my monies worth with my toys 🤣.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

Why DB? Right now, DB, B09, and Haspro all cost me the same price. I just got a deal on a b09 thatade it half the price of the rest. Haspro goes on sale regularly. Haspro I can buy in a store. DB stadium has had a short production run and as the series ends it's going to be equally scarce or scarcer than B09. If organisers can get a db they can usually get a B09 and they're nowhere near as expensive as people seem to think. But people who can't buy online can only get Haspro. I don't like the stadium but if you are going to talk accessibility as your argument, the bad stadium where, if ruled correctly, traditional attack is still usable which can be bought in stores is still a better stadium than the bizarre mess of a stadium that has the exact same accessibility issue as b09. I think it's an awful stadium. I think DB is worse.

If we are to make a second stadium legal in standard it should be haspro in fairness to those who can't buy online. I don't like it but I don't think db is the answer. If you rule haspro sensibly, ie "if the pocket wasn't there it would be a KO, so it's a KO" it's workable. If you make db stadium legal... You should look at just making any stadium legal IMO. At least any official stadium from either brand.

I’m sure you recall me mentioning using only the Haspro stadium for all standard in the discord the other day. I believe the resistance was there in the form of “the pockets suck” and “the ridge makes attack types bad”, or something along those lines.

I believe organizers that don’t already have the B-09 are at a disadvantage because they can only really do unranked. I was talking to crisis Cruisher and he mentioned making all stadiums legal for ranked to help every have a fair chance at a ranking and I’m all for it. If the stadium is announced in the tournament thread when it’s posted then bladers can choose to attend or not attend. I personally would play in a wooden bowl if that’s what we’re doing, I’m indifferent about stadiums, I’m just there to get my monies worth with my toys 🤣.

The pockets suck but as I said, you can address that with rules. The ridge is huge and annoying, but you can at least get a normal tight flower going and KO things. It's no B09, b09 is the best balanced stadium - which is the specific reason we use it - but it might actually be the next best for standard specifically, unless tornado attack in a 6in high box is allowed and you have 97 spares to get thru a tournament, in which case that is probably better than B09. Guilty will literally tear the walls off it, but Takara literally broke the mold with TA.

Tbh, I just think db stadium is getting largely undeserved attention by most people who want a second stadium. If we really must compromise, that's not the best offer 😅

---

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Why’s the DB Stadium getting so much hate? Attack types aren’t the only beyblades that people use.

What’s the problem with expanding your horizons and finding ways to win no matter the stadium?

That’s why mike.Nightwing ‘s Blader’s Kingdom tournaments are so fun because you have to think outside of the box.

Btw I agree with the stance that the stadium kills ‘rubber flats’ but not ALL attack drivers. Beyblade is always unpredictable and you can still get some crazy matches, hits, and knockouts in that stadium without using Xtreme or Quick. Just sayin

They sure aren't the only types people use - but those other types also work fine in B09. 2 Stadiums where stamina works, 1 stadium where dedicated attack works... Can ya see the issue? Makes it significantly harder for attack users to accrue points if they are at a disadvantage in or avoiding other tournaments - or points aside, would likely give them less tournaments to do what they like.

In your last point you're confusing balance drivers with attack drivers. Keep seeing this. 

That said, I'm mostly fine with db as its own format. Given how vastly different it is to traditional beyblade, it falls into the same category as Zero G stadiums for me. While this doesn't fix the point issue, nor the possibility of db becoming dominant, it does allow us the same clarity that we have with ZG at the moment. Tbh, I might be tempted to suggest splitting points ladders across formats and then using a unified cross format rank for the display on posts. That would be a massive change and require a lot of coding of course.

I’m not confusing balance and attack drivers. Like Crisis already said, drivers such as Destroy, Venture/Almight, High Jaggy’, High Accel’, Xceed, Reboot and Ultimate Reboot, heck even Shot can be used in the DB stadium effectively if used with skill. 

I use this stadium quite frequently and have done my research, so please don’t assume that I’m coming from the same place that everyone else is

Hello and first I want to apologize to my man CrisisCrusher07 because even though I did respond to this I didn't do it justice. Yes I am on vacation but Beyblade stays on my mind and we are tired from a long day of museums and screaming kids so I was allowed to hop on and chat 😎.

Anyway these changes and request are 100% legit. The definition of spinning is a major issue and can be the make or break of you getting into finals, let alone win the tournament. I've seen it happen, I mean there are even WBO events with matches recorded and by the current WBO definition of spinning it is very uncertain on who actually wins the match. Clarity on this definition would help so much.

Second, the mode changes are legit as well. We have the base or generic rule for a single mode change in all formats. But all formats are not the same of course, and thus must have their own set of unique ruling when it comes to the mode changes. Crisis did an excellent job of describing that. Layer rotation would be OP in deck format. Stick with astral or master on drift and you can pick up some easy wins. In 3 on 3 though that dual spin combo is used once per shuffle and your opponent has the opportunity to KO, burst, or out-spin the other combos. Overall the ability to have multiple mode changes takes a lot of skill. It is skill but also anxiety to be able to do it once in our current state. "If I change my vanish to high mode now, will is hurt me later since I can't go back?" It's still a tactic but more of an anxiety factor than freedom to enjoy the skill that comes with mode changes as they were designed to happen.

My last point and certainly not least is the DB stadium. The suggestion was for an alternative, an ALTERNATIVE, (not a game, PRACTICE!) not the definitive stadium. I see a lot of kick back for something that is considered an option. I personally don't like the idea of only using the B-09 stadium because it is expensive to buy in the US, at least $80 USD. That sucks for new players who want to practice how they play. It sucks even more for organizers who need at least 2 to run a decently smooth event and even 2 is a very low amount. I understand being uniform for rank and honestly I agree with that, but we have to look at more economical factors and growth. @think! I saw that you said in 10 years the DB stadium will be in the same situation that the standard stadium is in now. Well I certainly hope so, I hope in 10 years that the DB stadium is obsolete. I hope we have something new in the next 2 to 3 years to be honest. I enjoy the growth of this game. I don't want it to become stale. I like the creativity and challenges that come with it when we have new beys and parts released, the stadium is no different in my opinion.

Once again, I think you did an amazing job Crisis. This is all my opinion of course and I want to leave on a final note. There are limited organizers hosting now and even more of a limit of those hosting consistently. Those organizers hosting consistently are involved in the community. They get feedback from locals and travelers. They see new and old players. They get to hear their gripes and complaints as well as their praises. They are engulfed in the community and seeing what it going on in real time. Crisis is a very active organizer, and I am certain that this proposal was not on a whim. There are possibly 100 different Beyblade players voices in this rule proposal, if not more. He is working to be a voice for others and help move the game forward. There is a reason why we lack organizers, lack tournaments and even high involvement in the forums now. We should be trying to help and promote these innovative ideas of those trying to push and grow forward instead of the heavy backlash because of fear or anxiety. I say that because only a few organizers have even hosted in the DB stadium and I don't believe any of them have given any kickback to this idea. Testing by yourself or having theories is not the same as actually competing in an organized event.

Much love to you all and thank you Crisis. Ya'll take care.

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Owner of four-gaming.com, "Living What You Enjoy" Beyblade Retailer. @fourgaming_nc / YouTube Channel

They sure aren't the only types people use - but those other types also work fine in B09. 2 Stadiums where stamina works, 1 stadium where dedicated attack works... Can ya see the issue? Makes it significantly harder for attack users to accrue points if they are at a disadvantage in or avoiding other tournaments - or points aside, would likely give them less tournaments to do what they like.

In your last point you're confusing balance drivers with attack drivers. Keep seeing this. 

That said, I'm mostly fine with db as its own format. Given how vastly different it is to traditional beyblade, it falls into the same category as Zero G stadiums for me. While this doesn't fix the point issue, nor the possibility of db becoming dominant, it does allow us the same clarity that we have with ZG at the moment. Tbh, I might be tempted to suggest splitting points ladders across formats and then using a unified cross format rank for the display on posts. That would be a massive change and require a lot of coding of course.

I’m not confusing balance and attack drivers. Like Crisis already said, drivers such as Destroy, Venture/Almight, High Jaggy’, High Accel’, Xceed, Reboot and Ultimate Reboot, heck even Shot can be used in the DB stadium effectively if used with skill. 

I use this stadium quite frequently and have done my research, so please don’t assume that I’m coming from the same place that everyone else is

That's a list of balance drivers. I also own DB and have used it a reasonable amount. So have, I would assume, most people in this thread. Perhaps don't assume you are so far ahead of "everyone else", it's not very respectful towards the rest of the community.

I also still haven't seen a real case for why DB over HasPro aside from pocket rulings being hard (we already judge back wall bounces anyway so...) DB is the least accessible of the 3 for me, personally. It seems very much like a bunch of people claiming accessibility while forgetting about the massive section of the community who cannot buy online to me - or even someone like DJCAT8608 above who would already have the stadium to host now if we went haspro. Is it an inconvenient truth that as bad as it is, Hasbro have actually made a fairer stadium than TT's current flagship or something? We already rule based on back wall bounces and honestly, burst standard stuff doesn't seem to escape the pockets that often that it's a gigantic pain. I personally would rather either neither or maybe legalise every stadium - a massive shift in how we position ourselves, but I'll fight for HasPro over DB for Burst Standard any day.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Thank you StayCool, th!nk, maxrod, Shindog, Broyeeto, Mike.Nightwingand everyone else that has talked on this forum and gave their opinions. They are all much appreciated and help us towards finding the right answers to help our game stay fun and healthy.

As I have said, my proposal was DB only because of trying to have the best wording I could for Knock-Outs/Play-Area With that being said I whole heartedly agree that the Pro Series stadium would be the next best option, so long as we can come up with good wording for Knock-Outs/Play-Area.

However, I am definitely trying to look at the WBO community as a whole. That being the hard core competitive players as well as the casual players and younger players. So personally I am mostly for the idea of opening up the options of organizers and allow the use of any and all official Takara Tomy or Hasbro stadiums. I think this would be the step in the right direction. I get that a lot of people want the WBO to be different than the WBBA. But honestly they make the toys. They make the rules to fit the toys and the toys to fit the rules. Now technically their rules hurt attack. And it’s unfortunate. But that is why they give Knock-Outs the 2 points. It makes them worth playing when you can catch up in points with them and it makes them more desirable to play.

Ultimately my goal is just to grow the community. I don’t have all of the answers as to the proper ways to do that. But I will keep putting out ideas and banging my head against my work desk as I think of different and new ways we can try to improve the community.

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I’m not confusing balance and attack drivers. Like Crisis already said, drivers such as Destroy, Venture/Almight, High Jaggy’, High Accel’, Xceed, Reboot and Ultimate Reboot, heck even Shot can be used in the DB stadium effectively if used with skill. 

I use this stadium quite frequently and have done my research, so please don’t assume that I’m coming from the same place that everyone else is

That's a list of balance drivers. I also own DB and have used it a reasonable amount. So have, I would assume, most people in this thread. Perhaps don't assume you are so far ahead of "everyone else", it's not very respectful towards the rest of the community.

I also still haven't seen a real case for why DB over HasPro aside from pocket rulings being hard (we already judge back wall bounces anyway so...) DB is the least accessible of the 3 for me, personally. It seems very much like a bunch of people claiming accessibility while forgetting about the massive section of the community who cannot buy online to me - or even someone like DJCAT8608 above who would already have the stadium to host now if we went haspro. Is it an inconvenient truth that as bad as it is, Hasbro have actually made a fairer stadium than TT's current flagship or something? We already rule based on back wall bounces and honestly, burst standard stuff doesn't seem to escape the pockets that often that it's a gigantic pain. I personally would rather either neither or maybe legalise every stadium - a massive shift in how we position ourselves, but I'll fight for HasPro over DB for Burst Standard any day.

Can I get your list of attack drivers?

Also, I think I’m the only one that’s been talking about stadium accessibility and I stated we should just use the Haspro stadium so, don’t do that.

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Thank you StayCool, th!nk, maxrod, Shindog, Broyeeto, Mike.Nightwingand everyone else that has talked on this forum and gave their opinions. They are all much appreciated and help us towards finding the right answers to help our game stay fun and healthy.

As I have said, my proposal was DB only because of trying to have the best wording I could for Knock-Outs/Play-Area With that being said I whole heartedly agree that the Pro Series stadium would be the next best option, so long as we can come up with good wording for Knock-Outs/Play-Area.

However, I am definitely trying to look at the WBO community as a whole. That being the hard core competitive players as well as the casual players and younger players. So personally I am mostly for the idea of opening up the options of organizers and allow the use of any and all official Takara Tomy or Hasbro stadiums. I think this would be the step in the right direction. I get that a lot of people want the WBO to be different than the WBBA. But honestly they make the toys. They make the rules to fit the toys and the toys to fit the rules. Now technically their rules hurt attack. And it’s unfortunate. But that is why they give Knock-Outs the 2 points. It makes them worth playing when you can catch up in points with them and it makes them more desirable to play.

Ultimately my goal is just to grow the community. I don’t have all of the answers as to the proper ways to do that. But I will keep putting out ideas and banging my head against my work desk as I think of different and new ways we can try to improve the community.

I love the work you’re doing and am glad someone is taking the time to do so. This community needs someone like you looking out for it.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

That's a list of balance drivers. I also own DB and have used it a reasonable amount. So have, I would assume, most people in this thread. Perhaps don't assume you are so far ahead of "everyone else", it's not very respectful towards the rest of the community.

I also still haven't seen a real case for why DB over HasPro aside from pocket rulings being hard (we already judge back wall bounces anyway so...) DB is the least accessible of the 3 for me, personally. It seems very much like a bunch of people claiming accessibility while forgetting about the massive section of the community who cannot buy online to me - or even someone like DJCAT8608 above who would already have the stadium to host now if we went haspro. Is it an inconvenient truth that as bad as it is, Hasbro have actually made a fairer stadium than TT's current flagship or something? We already rule based on back wall bounces and honestly, burst standard stuff doesn't seem to escape the pockets that often that it's a gigantic pain. I personally would rather either neither or maybe legalise every stadium - a massive shift in how we position ourselves, but I'll fight for HasPro over DB for Burst Standard any day.

Can I get your list of attack drivers?

Traditional attack types aim to win by KO and not outspin, so using tips that focus on speed, recoil control and patterning control via launch skill - the ability to make a good flower pattern is the mark of a proper dedicated attack tip. As such, Rubber Flats, as has basically always been the case, are the tip of choice. 

Xtreme, Quick, Jolt, and maaaaybe Variable and Evolution and from Hasbro Hunter-S, Keep-S, Jolt-S and Evolutional-SP. Maybe Hunter (very narrow and hard) and, maybe, chipless Xc' but it doesn't pattern as well. Keep in mind, of course, that typing is combo level. 

While we sometimes list say, Metal Flat in MFB or SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version) as attack, that is mostly to avoid a gigantic mess of a balance section. They have the goal of a balance combo. This has unfortunately lead to people seeing Destroy' as attack rather than balance. While this is usually a minor matter, these things become very relevant when assessing game balance which I think people are forgetting we are doing here.

Luckily, while not amazing, attack is at least useable in HasPro, so it makes an acceptable choice with major accessibility upsides if we really do want to add another stadium.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Can I get your list of attack drivers?

Traditional attack types aim to win by KO and not outspin, so using tips that focus on speed, recoil control and patterning control via launch skill - the ability to make a good flower pattern is the mark of a proper dedicated attack tip. As such, Rubber Flats, as has basically always been the case, are the tip of choice. 

Xtreme, Quick, Jolt, and maaaaybe Variable and Evolution and from Hasbro Hunter-S, Keep-S, Jolt-S and Evolutional-SP. Maybe Hunter (very narrow and hard) and, maybe, chipless Xc' but it doesn't pattern as well. Keep in mind, of course, that typing is combo level. 

While we sometimes list say, Metal Flat in MFB or SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version) as attack, that is mostly to avoid a gigantic mess of a balance section. They have the goal of a balance combo. This has unfortunately lead to people seeing Destroy' as attack rather than balance. While this is usually a minor matter, these things become very relevant when assessing game balance which I think people are forgetting we are doing here.

Luckily, while not amazing, attack is at least useable in HasPro, so it makes an acceptable choice with major accessibility upsides if we really do want to add another stadium.

Has anyone taken the time to calculate the number of pure attack drivers compared to other types? I have a feeling we’ll see a pretty massive unbalance in that regard.

---

Hi,
I'm Mike
I'm a professional Beyblader

YOUTUBE || INSTAGRAM || BLADER'S KINGDOM

Use code 'BEYBLADEORBURST' & save money @ Four-Gaming, MallOfToys, Beys&Bricks, & Ever-Wish

So… I always see all of this back and forth about the driver types. While yes the way some drivers such as destroy preform in a way that is more balance and could be considered balance, you then have the creators of the game (Takara Tomy) calling it an attack driver. So… the real question is who is right as to what type of driver it is and why? Are the players right because of how they use it? Or is Takara Tomy right because of how they intended it to be used? So this whole debate is actually playing around in a really grey area.

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Traditional attack types aim to win by KO and not outspin, so using tips that focus on speed, recoil control and patterning control via launch skill - the ability to make a good flower pattern is the mark of a proper dedicated attack tip. As such, Rubber Flats, as has basically always been the case, are the tip of choice. 

Xtreme, Quick, Jolt, and maaaaybe Variable and Evolution and from Hasbro Hunter-S, Keep-S, Jolt-S and Evolutional-SP. Maybe Hunter (very narrow and hard) and, maybe, chipless Xc' but it doesn't pattern as well. Keep in mind, of course, that typing is combo level. 

While we sometimes list say, Metal Flat in MFB or SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version) as attack, that is mostly to avoid a gigantic mess of a balance section. They have the goal of a balance combo. This has unfortunately lead to people seeing Destroy' as attack rather than balance. While this is usually a minor matter, these things become very relevant when assessing game balance which I think people are forgetting we are doing here.

Luckily, while not amazing, attack is at least useable in HasPro, so it makes an acceptable choice with major accessibility upsides if we really do want to add another stadium.

Has anyone taken the time to calculate the number of pure attack drivers compared to other types? I have a feeling we’ll see a pretty massive unbalance in that regard.

Yes actually, correct - this is because attack has a unique win condition. Defense and Stamina both aim to outspin things as a primary wincon, so they blur together. The cut off for pure attack is where you say "I forfeit any hope of outspinning defense to put everything on KO". So there are far fewer of them - it is why they were impacted so badly by the driver variant rule in fact. There are also only so many ways to make a pure attack tip. I wish TT would release a Dash Hunter-S size tip (with good rubber). 
 
Oh I guess there's also like fresh Merge and uhhhh... Maybe Impact for what that thing is worth. 


There is also burst attack, but unfortunately in Burst Standard, Burst Attack is kinda dead.

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So… I always see all of this back and forth about the driver types. While yes the way some drivers such as destroy preform in a way that is more balance and could be considered balance, you then have the creators of the game (Takara Tomy) calling it an attack driver. So… the real question is who is right as to what type of driver it is and why? Are the players right because of how they use it? Or is Takara Tomy right because of how they intended it to be used? So this whole debate is actually playing around in a really grey area.

Leone is defense. Drift is defense. Apparently. We agreed 2 decades ago that Takara don't know what type their parts are. This part of the debate was settled in plastics. As was flat rubber tips being the go-to for attack...

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List