(Feb. 12, 2021 3:10 PM)Zeutron Wrote: Because just as extra lettuce is barely a contribution so is a chip that is 2 grams heavier, yes it’s an advantage but it’s a small and hardly relevant. It’s just far too insignificant and as I said before, it wouldn’t factor in much at all between two beys battling. You think a match between two Tempest combos using two different chips, one metal and one not will end with the metal chip combo dominating the other because of a chip? Heck no, the launch angle and form will determine that more often than anything else.
It's more of a contribution than nothing. Testing also reveals that yes, chips do matter and will tilt the match in the better chip's favor, as would any other improvement anywhere on the combo. This isn't to say launch angle, form, and strength don't matter, but an improved combo can help make up the difference or cover for minor mistakes. That is not worthless, especially at the highest levels of competitive play.
In a well balanced meta these changes will not cause one to steamroll over another, but provide a smaller edge. This is fine, but doesn't prevent one part from being "the best at X" or not.
(Feb. 12, 2021 3:10 PM)Zeutron Wrote: What I’m getting at is that it’s not in the best interest of most people to pay that much money with shipping for a release with hardly any new or viable parts and a tiny chip with hardly any effect on performance doesn’t make the difference at all. Sure you can tell me about your tests and what not but I highly doubt a 1-2 gram centralized weight difference has a highlighted advantage, empirical evidence doesn’t really outplay logical thinking and it was probably coincidence. People did these same tests with metal god chips and there weren’t many difference at all.
Logic is hard defined by empirical evidence, and as such empirical evidence will always "outplay" logical thinking. Would you assume logically that plants need the sun to grow if you didn't see one wilting in the shade, discover the method behind biological photosynthesis, or be told by someone else? You cannot because you don't have any information to base the conclusion on, so you can't connect the two together logically. The same applies to any other logical conclusion you can potentially draw.
Paraphrasing this underlined quote you can get messages like "It's true because I think it is. All that evidence against me is coincidence.", which is not only false but really, really self-centered and a potentially dangerous line of thinking. If you truly believe in this, then you have issues far beyond my ability to help.
Speaking of going over your logic, Metal God Chips are such a tiny increase in weight at 0.66 grams on average, and dead center at that. Metal chip cores are ever so slightly heavier than that. Σolomon is generally a bigger weight gain, around 3.67 grams compared to the Valkyrie chip, and most of that weight is near the edge where it's optimized for maximum inertia (as opposed to chips like Diabolos and Spriggan, where it's more centralized and therefore less effective). It's not fair to compare a dead center weight with weight that is positioned farther away, and so your logic falls through here as the testing has shown time and time again.
If tests ever misalign with logic it's the logic that is bad, not the real-life testing. Ergo, since real life testing doesn't match your logic, your logic is flawed somewhere.
(Feb. 12, 2021 3:10 PM)Zeutron Wrote: To answer one of your other questions no, I don’t want Solomon to be ridiculously powerful I’m just saying that a chip with an extremely slight advantage isn’t enough incentive to buy this, it’s my personal opinion. Not much good comes out of this anymore than bad parts and the Solomon chip really isn’t in the realm of heavy advantages. It’s just not worth the money plus shipping. Collectors being be able to get their hands on this chip is well and good but not everyone in the general public is a collector my friend. The target audience are almost always the biggest consumers and most kids really aren’t heavily invested in these sort of things seeing as they cost as much as they do. Even for competitive players I don’t see much of an appeal. Sure little weight differences count but they don’t count for much at all you can get what you get here in other releases.
If you don't see the value for the competitive scene then I'd ask you to please take a few steps out from that rock you're hiding under. Until right spin Sparking layers are no longer competitive Σolomon will continue to be the best right spin chip, though not one that is necessary or irreplaceable. 2B is a competitively viable chassis, if underused. Metal Accel may prove interesting in formats like Classic and Limited, presuming it doesn't get banned. That's quite a bit of competitive value right there, if not necessarily in the way you'd expect or hope it to be.
Also,
"not everyone is an X" is only a counterargument if I was saying that everyone should get this, which I have not. As long as people that like X exist then there is a reason for them to give a few releases to those sorts of people. In this case, it covers two large bases between collectors and those seeking a competitive edge. No, this release is probably not going to attract kids or more budget players. That doesn't mean everyone else can't enjoy it, and if you think it does then you really need to step back and think about things for a while or stop thinking so much of yourself and think about what others might like.
(Feb. 12, 2021 3:10 PM)Zeutron Wrote: Now about the lettuce analogy, sure it’s free. But it’s not a major contribution as it doesn’t change the fact that lettuce is a bland ingredient that’s there primarily for its crunch. A small piece of lettuce would barely make the difference at all and you probably wouldn’t notice this difference unless you saw it or were told it’s there sound familiar? Now I never claimed that the lettuce is the primary value in the burger and it wasn’t about the choice between lettuce and tomatoes either. As a matter of fact, the point I’m trying to make is that the extra piece of lettuce really isn’t worth much and isn’t extra incentive to buy the burger just as an extra gram or two won’t be much incentive to buy this release since that’s not much.
Great, so you don't like lettuce. Why complain about that to people that might enjoy that lettuce? Who ever said it was the primary focus of the burger instead of simply better than a burger without lettuce? The "tomatoes" here are an allegory to other metal chips, so quite frankly there is that flexibility I've already gone over. Remove the lettuce and you have the plain chips, which are fine but not as much value because you're getting less stuff with your hypothetical burger. If you can't afford to get a burger this time that's fine, but also none of my business since I plan on eating a burger regardless of what you say about it. Arguing to try and get me to eat something besides this burger is just dragging me down and causing trouble. You should stop this and let those that like this release like it without you looking down on us because we have a burger that you're clearly not interested in.
In summation, Σolomon is the reigning king of right spin Sparking chips. This is factual through testing from any number of individuals who own the part already and remains an uncontested conclusion, and my argument has gone no further than this. My original post was just to say that the MCC is not a requirement for Σolomon, and that it is still the best overall chip in most right spin combinations even without a MCC. You even seem to agree with this as fact despite claiming that it's "not a big enough difference", and yet accuse me of overhyping this?
I have not hyped it beyond its actual abilities, since not even once have I told people to get this or otherwise promoted the part short of stating its superiority over other chips, which is itself not "overhyping" because it is what the facts have brought to the table. In addition I've even admitted that it's replaceable and not mandatory. Unless you want to claim that telling the truth about a part's power level is "overhyping it", itsefl a claim that goes against a great deal of part testing, then you have no argument left with me.
Cincinnati-based Organizer, and owner of every single currently released TT Burst bey part in at least one color. Hard to think of anything I don't have from MFB either...