[Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread

So I just got a bunch of stuff from Dan (here's his selling thread), as part of my effort to close out my collection and test everything. I have a few preliminary observations - note the word preliminary, it's one evening messing around:

1. Hayate AR should be formally legalised asap (yes I've sneakily had a banned part on the cc list for years as it was pretty close to being legalised below I left), because it wrecks stuff and is amazingly fun. It has rotational recoil out the wazoo and can bend itself over the SG but it also sends stuff sailing through the air so often, I love it. So explosive. Looks mean as hell too. I've owned the hasbro version since I was a kid and testing of that mold was what qualified it for the list, but not having the poles seems to take it to the next level #FreeHayate

2. The Takara base for Hayate is even worse than Hasbro's, though I'm actually not sure if it's worse than Trygle. I will actually be doing safety focused tests on it, which is kind of new as an idea, as the rulings around it from Takara are very unclear and there's no competitive reason to ban it if anyone wants to be *that guy* as long as it is safe.

3. Customize Gear Free Shaft Ver+Light Sharp CEW (Zeus EG+cew) with Normal Base (wolborg 4 or rock bison ver) and maybe first clutch base (driger g ver.) is looking like an easily top tier right spin zombie setup. Not that right spin zombies are popular or all that useful but it has great LAD attributes and is a double bearing setup with a bk style tip in a lower friction plastic.

4. Desert Sphinxer's AR is quite good for right spin smash. It looks dumb but if it were thicker rather than having a Sub AR it would probably be competitive (it may still be!)

5. Crab Diver is good, but Manta is still the big boy. Crab Diver looks like it has too much rotational recoil for its own good at this point but I'm going to do some testing nonetheless. I can say though that the Divers are notable for all of them being at least "good" offensively, as Orca is quite effective as well.

6. The hasbro pro stadium is horrible for plastics, punishing strong attack types due to rebounding Beys hitting them into the opposite pocket. Unless the rule around rebounds/pockets changes, it must be considered a separate metagame. Not sure how the TT burst stadium compares but I'm now concerned about anything with rebounds.

7. Black Burning Kerberous is everything I ever hoped for, I am in love and I haven't even assembled it yet.



By the way, I have every part coming that I don't have already, aside from the metal bit chip and as of the moment, Dranzer V Hyper Red Ver's North Magnecore (Dranzer V Hyper Red Ver.). I have the South version from regular dranzer V but not the North one, but I'll sort that soon. Yes, I even splashed out on a poseidon just to test it myself. It remains to be seen whether I will financially recover from this.
My desert sphinxer ar works decently with war bear's sub ar. On a completely unrelated note, I'm getting ready to buy another gallzly
(Apr. 30, 2021  5:37 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: My desert sphinxer ar works decently with war bear's sub ar. On a completely unrelated note, I'm getting ready to buy another gallzly

The unfortunate issue with this is that war Bear SAR snaps in right spin, and ark Pyramid doesn't do anything in left, so Great Dragon (Gaia Dragoon) is likely going to be better every time because it has solid smash on its own and reinforces the weight distro and contact points. And Dragon Breaker (GDV) adds some attack of its own. I'll give it a shot though!

Always worth having extra war bears, it's a high impact part that isn't terribly durable, even in left spin.
Further Observations from this evening.

Zeus EG+CEW is definitely competitively viable (inasmuch as any right spin zombie is) with either of the Normal Bases - Wolborg 4 has nicer edges, Rock Bison has a nicer distro. Due to the height, and the fact the WD is involved in the LAD, wide survivor is ideal and wide defense is okay, nothing else works, no compensating with dragon saucer here.

As for crab diver, still need to do formal tests but tried a Magnecore instead of my normal super-light setup of neo SG shells + regular SG Core part. As seaborg base is already plenty fast this seemed to be a good trade-off for recoil control and did seem to result in something promising, but I'll try to get actual testing done tomorrow with comparisons between manta, crab+light SG and crab+Magnecore, and post it in the relevant thread.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention yesterday - Turbo EG + CEW Metal Grip could have been a contender if there were a left spin equivalent to Triple Tiger. It does hit impressive speeds on first/no clutch bases, but ARs don't make enough contact with opponents for it to be terribly effective.

Having new parts to play with is an absolute blast though. Been a long time since I've been able to pick up a plastic beyblade and have very little clue how well it's going to work. Poseidon will be here soon and then everything else I don't have will be on its way shortly afterward!
Not much that I haven't posted elsewhere today but kind of a fun goofy combo:

AR: Smash Turtle
WD: Wide Defense
EG: Turbo Left
BB: First Clutch Base (Dragoon G Version)
CEW: Metal Grip

Basically aims to hit with the base because EG's are too tall for attack. To encourage this it uses smash turtle to try to force smash things into making better contact with the base. It's not competitive but it's pretty much the best I can get out of an engine gear for attack.
(May. 02, 2021  9:44 AM)th!nk Wrote: Not much that I haven't posted elsewhere today but kind of a fun goofy combo:

AR: Smash Turtle
WD: Wide Defense
EG: Turbo Left
BB: First Clutch Base (Dragoon G Version)
CEW: Metal Grip

Basically aims to hit with the base because EG's are too tall for attack. To encourage this it uses smash turtle to try to force smash things into making better contact with the base. It's not competitive but it's pretty much the best I can get out of an engine gear for attack.

Have you tried gigantic claw for the AR? It's contact points are a little lower, and with the steep angle of the slopes and the high speed of the eg, it might make for some brutal force smash.
All of the ARs with big force smash slopes tend to just get destabilised (the closest is dranzer g's AR), and unfortunately gigantic claw tends to do the same. It looks huge and mean but it always disappoints me Unhappy
For those interested, I have dumped a huge amount of work upon our poor committee with a plastics ruling update Megathread. Here's a link if anyone is interested: https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Legalis...Megathread
Weighing all my parts... Think this'll take a while...
[Image: 2QFlTu0.jpg]

Also, here's the heaviest combo I can make
AR: Dragon Breaker
SAR: Screw Zeus
WD: Ten Heavy
SG: Neo Right SG (Heavy Metal Core)
BB: SG Metal Ball Base (4 Balls) with SG Auto Change Base Base Clips

If you have an average 16g HMC (mine is just slightly heavier), then the Base Clips do matter - with most Base Clips aside from Flash Leopard's and Wyborg's, EG: Right EG (Circle Defenser) BB: First Clutch Base (Zeus Version) CEW: Circle Survivor is actually the same weight or slightly heavier.

It is an Ugly Boy, though, weighing in at 48.056g: https://imgur.com/fPdRHjG
I used it years ago and recall it not being that good, the weight helps it be passable but it's not top tier.
Just got my Mirage Goddess in the mail yesterday, and I love it already. I haven't found a single combo it can't ko.
(Jul. 03, 2021  7:46 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: Just got my Mirage Goddess in the mail yesterday, and I love it already. I haven't found a single combo it can't ko.

Yeah it's a really good AR. Surprisingly low recoil for the size and design too.
I have put together a full list of launcher rotations and miscellaneous details. I'll have photos and more on plasticsDB when that is published (it'll be in a post launch update, probably the first one though).

-Launcher Rotations-

Unique/No Ripcord:

Bey Ultimate Shooters/Bey Max Shooter: 8.5-9
The Bey Ultimate Shooters and the Bey Max Shooter are the same launcher (Max is meant as in the character, not "maximum). The two Dragoon ones are Left Spin, the rest are Right Spin. All use a special extra long winder unique to and only compatible with this launcher series (which in turn cannot use regular winders), with more tightly packed teeth and a more durable material. Note that due to their unique setup the peak power may not be much more than the Power Shooter or Power Custom (which has less resistance than the Power Shooter, and is less fragile).

Bey Grip Shooter (No Ripcord - Spring Loaded, stops automatically): 3

BeyShooter (No Ripcord - Spring Loaded, manual stop with annoying timing required. AKA Engine Gear Launcher (Hasbro)): 3.5

HMS Double Shooter (Both Prongs, Plastics Attachments Used): 5.5

Dragon Winder:
EZ Shooter: 6.5
Left EZ Shooter: 6.5
Neo Left EZ Shooter: 6.5
Power Shooter: 8.5
Deluxe Shooter Dragoon: 7.5-8
Deluxe Shooter Right Spin: 7.5-8
Spring Shooter: 7-7.5
EZ Shooter Power Custom: 7-7.5
RC Shooter (Right Spin): 6.5
RC Shooter (Left Spin): 6.5
Hasbro RC EG Shooter: 6.5
Sliding Shooter: 6.5
EZ Shooter Spring Custom: 6.5
Hasbro Duotron (Both Prongs): 6.5

Short Winder:
EZ Shooter: 4.5-5
Left EZ Shooter: 4.5-5
Neo Left EZ Shooter: 4.5-5
Power Shooter: 5.5
Deluxe Shooter Dragoon: 5.5
Deluxe Shooter Right Spin: 5.5
Spring Shooter: 5
EZ Shooter Power Custom: 5
RC Shooter (Right Spin): 4.5-5
RC Shooter (Left Spin): 4.5-5
Hasbro RC EG Shooter: 4.5-5
Sliding Shooter: 4.5-5
EZ Shooter Spring Custom: 4.5-5
Hasbro Duotron (Both Prongs): 4.5-5

Rip Cord Teeth Counts:
Short Winder: 45
Dragon Winder: 68
Reverse Dragon Winder: 68
Neo Dragon Winder: 68
Takara MFB Winder: 68
Ultimate Winder (Bey Ultimate/Bey Max Shooter Only): 106
HMS Winder: 58

Tooth gap: approx 3mm peak to peak on regular winders and approx 2mm peak to peak on Ultimate Winder.

The Power Shooter and Deluxe Shooters have an 8 tooth gear, however the deluxe shooters have a gear attached to the gyro in line with it thus do not get the full length of the ripcord. The Power Shooter is very fragile however due to poor design of the part which keeps the ripcord engaged with the gear.
The Power Custom and Spring Shooter have a 9 tooth gear.
The Bey Ultimate Shooters and the Bey Max Shooter (which is just the draciel version of it) have a 13 tooth gear (need to recheck this but 90% sure) but a much longer ripcord with closer spaced teeth. You can pretty much go ham on this launcher and it won't skip, allowing for it to be right up there with the best Launchers but more user dependent
Note that while the Bey Grip Shooter and Beyshooter numbers show 3/3.5, they are even weaker as they need to be stopped before this rotation completes (manual stop is required to have the Beyblade actually leave the prongs). They are truly woeful and the Bey Grip Shooter seems fragile too.

The HMS Double Shooter is also much more powerful than it looks, perhaps because of the added torque.
It tends to be above the standard launchers from a few solo spins despite the fewer rotations. It's definitely in the upper echelon as goofy as it is. Getting the plastics prongs to not fall off is challenging though.

The Bey Ultimate seems to give the highest solo spins for me, however I haven't been able to do any with my Power Shooter as it very quickly broke (poor design). I'm trying to get solo spins done for it still through some very ugly repairs efforts.

Of higher than standard power launchers, only the Bey Ultimate Shooter (Dragoon Versions - Silver and Blue/Black and Yellow) and the DX Shooter Dragoon are Left Spin, and the latter is hard to get a lot of power out of so really that just leaves the bey ultimate.
I've been really into Plastic beyblades lately, and I figured I might ask a few questions here. I'm not familiar with the competitive scene for this system (besides Hasbro Twin Horn + Dragon Saucer SA being great, and whatever I've read up on Beywiki) and I'm not planning on using them for tournaments, due to my busy IRL, social anxiety, schedule, money and because I wanna keep my collection as long as possible, so think of this as purely educational purposes.

I've always wondered if Gigantic Claw, Gigar's AR, had any use? It always looked promising, and I've tried to look it up here, but I've not got a clear answer, as some say it has some usage for Force Smash, but some don't really find it useful. Also, if Gigantic Claw is useful, that would technically mean every Justice 5 beyblade has a decent attack ring, right?

What's the best alternative to Twin Horn (H) + Dragon Saucer? I sadly don't have Twin Horn (H), so I'm just curious. I wouldn't consider this asking for combo suggestions, as I already know what combo is used for Twin Horn + Dragon Saucer, I just want to know if there's any good alternatives?
(Aug. 07, 2021  9:41 PM)Jinbee Wrote: I've been really into Plastic beyblades lately, and I figured I might ask a few questions here. I'm not familiar with the competitive scene for this system (besides Hasbro Twin Horn + Dragon Saucer SA being great, and whatever I've read up on Beywiki) and I'm not planning on using them for tournaments, due to my busy IRL, social anxiety, schedule, money and because I wanna keep my collection as long as possible, so think of this as purely educational purposes.

I've always wondered if Gigantic Claw, Gigar's AR, had any use? It always looked promising, and I've tried to look it up here, but I've not got a clear answer, as some say it has some usage for Force Smash, but some don't really find it useful. Also, if Gigantic Claw is useful, that would technically mean every Justice 5 beyblade has a decent attack ring, right?

What's the best alternative to Twin Horn (H) + Dragon Saucer? I sadly don't have Twin Horn (H), so I'm just curious. I wouldn't consider this asking for combo suggestions, as I already know what combo is used for Twin Horn + Dragon Saucer, I just want to know if there's any good alternatives?

I managed to run a Plastics tournament while battling crippling anxiety, don't write yourself off bud! Anyway -

Sadly no. It looks fearsome but it doesn't actually have any well exposed contact points. I've tried a tonne of things but never got it to be more than average. In left it's still because the force smash slopes just make it upper attack itself off opponents because they're too severe. Gigantic Claw, like the rest of Gigars, is a missed opportunity.
Not quite all, Trident Vector is probably the most recoily AR in plastics and can't do anything past its severe rotational recoil no matter how you try to fix it. Bends itself back over SGs... Just an awful part. I'm sad at how much money I spent to confirm that 😭

War Lion is the accessible version of that setup and performs mostly close enough, though it's more fragile and more recoily if it does get hit past The Big Gear it's probably equal with Twin Horn as the second place holder to Twin Horn (Hasbro).
(Aug. 08, 2021  3:36 AM)th!nk Wrote:
(Aug. 07, 2021  9:41 PM)Jinbee Wrote:

I managed to run a Plastics tournament while battling crippling anxiety, don't write yourself off bud! Anyway -

Sadly no. It looks fearsome but it doesn't actually have any well exposed contact points. I've tried a tonne of things but never got it to be more than average. In left it's still because the force smash slopes just make it upper attack itself off opponents because they're too severe. Gigantic Claw, like the rest of Gigars, is a missed opportunity.
Not quite all, Trident Vector is probably the most recoily AR in plastics and can't do anything past its severe rotational recoil no matter how you try to fix it. Bends itself back over SGs... Just an awful part. I'm sad at how much money I spent to confirm that 😭

War Lion is the accessible version of that setup and performs mostly close enough, though it's more fragile and more recoily if it does get hit past The Big Gear it's probably equal with Twin Horn as the second place holder to Twin Horn (Hasbro).

That's awesome man! And I appreciate that, and I'm certain that it is a very welcoming and lovely environment there, I just wish I wasn't so afraid to try out new things haha, not to mention the other reasons above.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know! It really is a shame that Gigantic Claw isn't good though since it's one of my favourite beyblades and attack rings, I always figured it either had some Force Smash, or it had some Upper Attack. I also found that when lightly touching Gigars attack ring from the side while it was spinning, it's actually fairly smooth and not as aggressive feeling as I thought it'd be. I'm assuming the EG and CEW it comes with isn't useful either?

Oh really? That's actually interesting to hear, I actually assumed that Trident Vector would have crazy attack like Square Edge, given it's square like shape. The idea that it twists past the SG sounds awful though, that's a recipe for breakage right there, and seeing as Poseidon is really expensive, you probably wouldn't want that. I am sorry that it's happened to you as well.

Ah nice. That sounds promising, and it is a relief since Galeon is far easier to get. I've also heard of some people attempting to use War Bear's AR as a substitute, but is that actually true? At least based on your experience?
(Aug. 08, 2021  7:52 AM)Jinbee Wrote:
(Aug. 08, 2021  3:36 AM)th!nk Wrote: I managed to run a Plastics tournament while battling crippling anxiety, don't write yourself off bud! Anyway -

Sadly no. It looks fearsome but it doesn't actually have any well exposed contact points. I've tried a tonne of things but never got it to be more than average. In left it's still because the force smash slopes just make it upper attack itself off opponents because they're too severe. Gigantic Claw, like the rest of Gigars, is a missed opportunity.
Not quite all, Trident Vector is probably the most recoily AR in plastics and can't do anything past its severe rotational recoil no matter how you try to fix it. Bends itself back over SGs... Just an awful part. I'm sad at how much money I spent to confirm that 😭

War Lion is the accessible version of that setup and performs mostly close enough, though it's more fragile and more recoily if it does get hit past The Big Gear it's probably equal with Twin Horn as the second place holder to Twin Horn (Hasbro).

That's awesome man! And I appreciate that, and I'm certain that it is a very welcoming and lovely environment there, I just wish I wasn't so afraid to try out new things haha, not to mention the other reasons above.

Anyway, thanks for letting me know! It really is a shame that Gigantic Claw isn't good though since it's one of my favourite beyblades and attack rings, I always figured it either had some Force Smash, or it had some Upper Attack. I also found that when lightly touching Gigars attack ring from the side while it was spinning, it's actually fairly smooth and not as aggressive feeling as I thought it'd be. I'm assuming the EG and CEW it comes with isn't useful either?

Oh really? That's actually interesting to hear, I actually assumed that Trident Vector would have crazy attack like Square Edge, given it's square like shape. The idea that it twists past the SG sounds awful though, that's a recipe for breakage right there, and seeing as Poseidon is really expensive, you probably wouldn't want that. I am sorry that it's happened to you as well.

Ah nice. That sounds promising, and it is a relief since Galeon is far easier to get. I've also heard of some people attempting to use War Bear's AR as a substitute, but is that actually true? At least based on your experience?

Yeah, much less aggressive than it looks but still too recoily for something like weight based defense. The EG could be great but it doesn't spin freely enough. Had it been done with bearings it could have been *okay* but even then it would just be a worse version of Zeus'. The CEW is okay, there just isn't a use case for it - Zeus' Light Sharp is the only competitive CEW, not counting Circle Survivor, and even then it's niche. 

Yeah I was expecting a lot from it but the contact point angles are awful (Square Edge has deceptively good contact points) and its size combined with that basically means the opponent has insane leverage against it. Very unfortunate.

War Bear can be used but it's a lot more recoily and more fragile, so it doesn't have a spot on the tier list - basically one of the tests I use is how well a defensive zombie using it does vs a good circle survivor defense combo, and war bear fails once it tilts and starts making contact. In Left, War Monkey is also a competitive choice if you are looking for another alternative.
I've been trying to get a dragon saucer for a while, can't seem to find one that isn't overpriced though.
Hello, just wanted to share what I found regarding Defense Grip Base's tip, not entirely sure if it has been discussed so excuse me if it has.

I am aware this is most likely illegal but for casual play, i found that if you place Defense Grip Base's tip inside Storm Grip Base, it'll fit if you use Dranzer V's MG Core (and either Neo Right or Left SG casings). Normally, the SG would be too tall for the tip, but with Dranzer V's MG core, the tip fits snugly without it falling out, which is what you would typically experience if you inverted Storm Grip Base's normal tip. I may have to check again but I don't think it works with Wyborg's SG since the tip uses the narrow opening at the bottom of the MG core to stay in place.

Performance wise, its pretty much the same as inverting the tip on its regular Seaborg base, though the obvious benefit and reason why you would place it in Storm Grip Base is for its considerable shorter height. Apart from not being Support-Part compatible, the main downfall of Seaborg's base is its height that you typically have to work around using AR's that extend downwards towards the WD e.g. Triple Tiger. In terms of the meta and what I've gathered, Circle Survivor combos are what Attack Types struggle most against, so i suppose in that regard, the shorter height wouldn't actually be of much use (though I would have to test this) but against other opponents e.g. Compacts, the option would certainly be helpful.

As said before, I know it is illegal as is tip-swapping in general though part of me does hope that this be made an exception, given its relative simplicity, benefit towards Attack Types and affordability in parts. Again, I apologise if this has been discussed previously, after all, Plastic Gen is 20+ years old now (wow I'm old). Aside from my ramblings, I just think it's a neat little thing to try casually and I don't think its as egregious as swapping metal tips.

Interested to hear anyone else's thoughts.

(Aug. 10, 2021  10:24 PM)Flame~Capricorn Wrote: I've been trying to get a dragon saucer for a while, can't seem to find one that isn't overpriced though.

Yes, that's a problem here in the UK also, G-Revolution Beyblades in particular are being listed for extortionate prices. Bit of a shame really. Best bet would be to find one in a lot as I find its more affordable to buy useful parts in bulk rather than individually.
(Aug. 12, 2021  9:15 PM)XanderGT Wrote: Hello, just wanted to share what I found regarding Defense Grip Base's tip, not entirely sure if it has been discussed so excuse me if it has.

I am aware this is most likely illegal but for casual play, i found that if you place Defense Grip Base's tip inside Storm Grip Base, it'll fit if you use Dranzer V's MG Core (and either Neo Right or Left SG casings). Normally, the SG would be too tall for the tip, but with Dranzer V's MG core, the tip fits snugly without it falling out, which is what you would typically experience if you inverted Storm Grip Base's normal tip. I may have to check again but I don't think it works with Wyborg's SG since the tip uses the narrow opening at the bottom of the MG core to stay in place.

Performance wise, its pretty much the same as inverting the tip on its regular Seaborg base, though the obvious benefit and reason why you would place it in Storm Grip Base is for its considerable shorter height. Apart from not being Support-Part compatible, the main downfall of Seaborg's base is its height that you typically have to work around using AR's that extend downwards towards the WD e.g. Triple Tiger. In terms of the meta and what I've gathered, Circle Survivor combos are what Attack Types struggle most against, so i suppose in that regard, the shorter height wouldn't actually be of much use (though I would have to test this) but against other opponents e.g. Compacts, the option would certainly be helpful.

As said before, I know it is illegal as is tip-swapping in general though part of me does hope that this be made an exception, given its relative simplicity, benefit towards Attack Types and affordability in parts. Again, I apologise if this has been discussed previously, after all, Plastic Gen is 20+ years old now (wow I'm old). Aside from my ramblings, I just think it's a neat little thing to try casually and I don't think its as egregious as swapping metal tips.

Interested to hear anyone else's thoughts.

This was definitely something considered way back when, but as you said it wasn't something that took off because of how switching parts like that was never viewed as intentional or true to the game's rules. In general though, a lot of Attack Rings are perfectly capable on DGB. Funnily enough, I really prefer Triple Tiger on CBB+Grip Change instead of DGB. To your point, now Circle Survivor based combos are meta and incentivize being taller anyway, you're basically doing yourself a disservice even if this workaround was allowed. The meta wouldn't change in a meaningful way with this addition.
On the topic of benefitting us in terms of affordable meta picks, Seaborg is cheaper already than Dragoon S is. It would be more expensive on us if it were to be the case that Storm Grip is favoured in meta matchups where DGB isn't.

I agree it isn't a terribly egregious swap, but it isn't cheaper on blader's wallet or pushing the meta forward at all. It just kind of exists. Don't think anyone would hold it against you for using it at home.
Sorry this is a lil late but unfortunately swapping those tips between bases is explicitly banned by Takara for various reasons (I think the specific example from Takara is storm grip and MCB). The line between SG GCB/CGB etc and those tips is a lil blurry but they fall under the shaft part rule I guess.