MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF
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Whaddup guys. This testing thread is a sort of branch-off from this one, so make sure to read both if you have time!

The Concept:

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Aggressive Defense. These days, people tend to associate aggression with Attack types, while completely excluding it from the field of Defense, which, as this testing hopefully shows, is a false and hindering mindset, especially when it comes to tiering. Most players' definition of Defense nowadays is the "one that sits still and takes hits really well." That really isn't the case, however. Our definition should be (in my humble opinion - one I think we'll all agree with), the "one that avoids being KOed" (of course, you still have the matter of consistently out-spinning your opponent, but that's more an essential element of customization, rather than an attribute of "Defense" itself). That said, this combination aims to utilize the aggressive properties of RF to neutralize an opposing Attack combination through extremely high traction and momentum.

First off, RF provides more traction than conventional Defense Bottoms. Its surface area is is significantly broader, which makes for an extremely high level of friction between the Bottom and the stadium floor - and essential attribute of any competitive Defense custom. Not only that, but RF also provides aggressive movement, which is honestly the most significant advantage Attack types have over conventional Defenders when it comes to direct collision. By more or less neutralizing this advantage by applying high speed and momentum to the Defender, we come out with a much higher win rate against Attack Beyblades. In a nutshell, seeing as almost every advantage an Attacker has over a given Defense custom is provided by the Bottom it uses, we can simply nullify those advantages completely by using the same Bottom on the opposing Defense combination.

That said, I do believe that RF-based Defense is extremely deserving of top-tier status, due to the very impressive numbers it's shown me so far (especially compared to the run-of-the-mill stationary BD145 Defender). This is a combination derived from the concept that I hope will demonstrate its overall effectiveness (not only of this particular variant, but of all Rubber-flat based Defense types).

Parts Choice:

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MSF-H: Heavy weight. To maximize the level of friction between the Bottom and the stadium floor, we need as much weight as possible. This is an essential element of any Defense Beyblade.

Genbull: Genbull is a really cool Wheel. Not only is it the best Stamina Chrome Wheel available (which makes it eligible for this setup, as even on RF it can still easily out-spin our current competitive Attack combinations), its Defensive capabilities are off the charts. If you ask me, it completely outclasses our friend Revizer (especially as I've found it harder to KO on top of having superior Stamina, presumably due to the optimal weight distribution/level of balance that Revizer clearly doesn't have). I'd say Genbull was practically made for this setup.

BD145: Weight, bulk, and a lowered center of gravity (along with slightly higher capability against left-spin Attack types at low RPMs). BD145 is the heaviest Track in the game, and it fits this custom very well.

RF: As stated in the OP, the goal of this custom is to neutralize an opposing Attack combination's advantages of speed, higher traction and momentum, by applying the same part that gives those advantages ourselves: an RF variant. We use RF (rather than R2F/LRF) for its superior Stamina, since we obviously still need to out-spin the Attacker after we've avoided the KO to come up with a win.

The Launch:

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Against Right-spin Attack types, bank hard. Not too hard, but harder than you'd launch a normal Defense types, since we still do need to worry about out-spinning our opponent (which shouldn't be too difficult, but we are still dealing with an RF variant here, and you can never be too careful). I would suggest around 90%.

Against left-spin Attack types, I would honestly launch at full power. I've found that launching lightly, even at 80%, makes it much easier for the opposing combination to push you around. You need to stand firm coming from the opposite direction, or they'll just slip you over diagonally and roll you right out of the stadium. You wanna be able to meet them directly, take the hit well and deliver your own, suffer as little recoil as possible, stay fully upright, and immediately jump back and hit them again to break their Attack pattern. You have the weight advantage, so shoving them around shouldn't be too hard if you launch as hard as they're launching. Whether or not to bank really comes down to preference, but I would personally suggest going for a straight-up tornado stall, so as not to put yourself at a tilted angle and make yourself vulnerable to push-KO.

Against other Defense combinations or Stamina combinations, launch at maximum power, and go for the KO.

Testing:

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Benchmark:

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MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF vs. Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
Revizer launched first on all launches. Wyvangs calm molds. Prime R2F. Prime RF
Revizer: wins, 9/25 (All OS)
Wyvang: wins, 16/25 (All KO)
MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF win rate: 36%

Average launch for me. Perfect.

Vs. Attack:

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MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
Genbull launched first on all launches. Wyvangs calm molds. Prime R2F. Prime RF
Genbull: wins, 21/25 (6 KO, 15 OS)
Wyvang: wins, 4/25 (All KO)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 84%

This is honestly the most important set of tests in this entire thread. Genbull absolutely whipped MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF's win rate by nearly 150%. This hopefully demonstrates how effective the switch to RF can make a conventional BD145 Defense type.


MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. Wyvang Dragooon SA165R2F
Genbull launched first on all launches. Wyvang aggressive mold. Prime R2F. New RF
Genbull: wins, 14/20 (5 KO, 9 OS)
Dragooon: wins, 6/20 (3 KO, 3 OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 70%

Ties redone: 4

Genbull did suffer a few out-spins, but it took 75% of them, and avoided KO at a rate of 85%. Very impressive IMO.

Vs. Defense:

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MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. MSF-H Revizer Killerken BD145RB
Killerken launched first on all launches. RF new. RB worn, but still relatively calm.
Genbull: wins, 7/20 (6 KO, 1 OS)
Killerken: wins, 13/20 (All OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 35%

Genbull's upper edge actually has some decent smash. Definitely not anywhere near the power level of a competitive Attack Chrome Wheel, but still enough to pull a few KOs off on a top-tier Defense type. I chose MSF-H Revizer Killerken BD145RB, because I wanted a BD145 Defense type kind of right in the middle between Defense and Stamina. Not something like Killerken Killerken BD145CS, but not something like MSF-H Revizer Revizer BD145RDF. Not easy to KO, but not easy for Genbull to out-spin either.

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. MSF-H Revizer Killerken E230 [ Boost] RB
Killerken launched first on all launches. RF new. RB worn, but still relatively calm.
Genbull: wins, 8/20 (5 KO, 3 OS)
Killerken: wins, 12/20 (1 KO, 11 OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 40%

This actually quite surprised me. There was Genbull's upper edge again. It suffered very little recoil, but it still delivered some decent hits. Pretty neat.

As you can see, this thing obviously has some trouble with competitive Defense. To be expected for a non-aggressive setup on a Rubber Flat variant.

Vs. Stamina:

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MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. Revizer Dragooon SA165 [Normal] EWD
Dragooon launched first on all launches. RF new.
Genbull: wins, 12/20 (All KO)
Dragooon: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 60%

I feel like this win rate should have been higher. There were quite a few wall saves every round, and Genbull was shoving the thing around like it was nothing. I'd expect you could hit 80% in this matchup pretty easily if you tried.

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. Duo Cancer SA165 [Normal] EWD
Duo launched first on all launches. RF new.
Genbull: wins, 6/20 (5 KO, 1 OS)
Duo: wins, 14/20 (All OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 30%

Ehhh... with how low Duo sits on a Track, this was a bad height for Genbull to deal with. That upper edge wasn't exposed. Duo being... well, Duo, you can imagine how hard it was for a round wheel like Genbull to get a good grip on it. It came very close to shoving it out several times, but with Duo being so light and smooth, Genbull didn't get enough resistance to keep its Attack pattern going, and Duo just slipped back to the center while Genbull broke into a semi-stall (not a straight-up tornado stall, but too wide to land a KO on Duo). I would recommend banking very deeply in this matchup if you ever came across it. I think that probably would've helped the numbers a bit.

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. Duo Cancer 230TB[/u]
Duo launched first on all launches. RF new.
Genbull: wins, 12/20 (11 KO, 1 OS)
Duo: wins, 8/20 (All OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 60%

OK, this was just insane luck. I counted at least 3 wall saves every round that Duo won. This was a perfect matchup for Genbull to utilize its upper edge, but Duo just kept a-bouncin' off the walls. This could've easily been 90-100% to be perfectly honest.

So this thing has some trouble with Stamina, but if you sliding shoot hard you still have a decent shot at winning (keep in mind, this isn't a Balance combination, but KOing Stamina is something you can do with a really good launch and a little bit of luck).

Vs. Balance:

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MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. Revizer Dragooon SA165 [Normal] RDF
Dragooon launched first on all launches. RF new. RDF semi-aggro.
Genbull: wins, 1/10 (1 KO)
Dragooon: wins, 9/10 (All OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 10%

Yah... uh, fail. XD

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF vs. MSF-L Balro Balro BD145MF
Beys alternated launching first. RF new.
Genbull: wins, 10/20 (7 KO, 3 OS)
Balro: wins, 10/20 (1 KO, 9 OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 50%

This was kinda surprising. This thing usually takes down Wyvang Attack types (I still don't know how), but Genbull was actually able to put up a serious fight. This was an entertaining match. They literally came out exactly even. Go figure.

Counters:

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[MSF-H] (Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon (SA165/BD145) RDF
MSF-H Revizer (Killerken/Genbull)/ Genbull Genbull BD145 (RDF/RB/RSF/CS)

Overall, this seems like a very competitive Defense combination! I'm really happy with these results, and we can hopefully use them in determining whether or not RF-based Defense has a place on the tier list.

Thanks for reading guys! Feel free to test if you can.

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I don't know if anyone really ever said defense has to sit still, especially when aggressive bottoms like RSF and RDF are used for defense. I don't think RF belongs in the defense category. It holds up against attack types because of the speed, aggression, and grip, but that is what an anti-attacker does. RF doesn't get near as good results against stamina as other conventional defense bottoms, so that is a big part of why I think it ahould remain in the balance section.

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still posi

Seems like a cool combo! But the reason why other anti-attackers worked is because of a combination of there enormous weight, low-recoil, and able to push the combo out with those two. Genbull only has maybe 1 or 2 of those things.

But yeah, RF = Balance.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Wow this is the combo I've been messing around with since January lol. I even remember using it at the revival event at some point during the day. I was confused for a second seeing this thread since I didn't think others really thought of it. Nice thread, is there any thing you want me to test? Ill probably do some comparison tests anyway just wanted to know if you wanted something specific.

Benchmark with Diablo/ Girago Girago BD145RF please.

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Signature credit to Leet.o

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Threads you should read:

Pony King ? God, can't believe I typed this. I have to put my keyboard in the dishwasher now...

dude are you a gangster

LOL did you asked Midnight to take that pic?

When a monochrome picture is posted on WBO, it doesn't mean that it's always from Midnight.

I wouldn't trust someone with that many Cancer faces.

Well damn.

@[The Supreme One] Soul Baez V145AS

There's nothing else really to do or say except wait for the Superbowl, but I'm only here so I don't get fined.



Time. *gets up and leaves*

We won't have tournaments in the winter. Cause we are not one of those Canadian people where they just go outside like nothing happened to their hands.

i like my coffee like i like my men B)



i don't like coffee

I never have.

*Ginga*.. you're drunk bro... go home.. : )

Tbh SGMS & BDMS are kinda worthless.
MSUV is a far better spent investment; DGMF is even better IMO.

Um what? You're just saying that because you're a dragoon fanboy...

Why would I be suspended????

HMS summarised:




Anything not Tornado Type S:  Wolborg will leave you #rekt




Otherwise:  Go crazy with Ultimate Grip Flat 




For something less cookie-cutter:  Jiraiya sure is sexy

Is Wolborg 2 useless for competitive play?

Extremely useless. 
Now, if you come upon one I'll just PM you my address so you can throw it away. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I wasn't looking for Beyblade Underwear, I swear

Wow, this is my kind of combo, I really like it. Nice idea.

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I am an odd person sometimes, here's why (Click to View)

Could you test it against my attack/anti-attack/artillery-like/tank of a combo Wyvang^2 SA165 (Attack) LRF?

I just saw this thread though, I like it ^-^ I still prefer the Girago variant XD

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Girago is a completely different type of custom. It isn't another variant of this custom. They are two completely different things.

Anti-Attack, is Balance. Balance Beyblades are designed to take down Beyblades of multiple types (IE, Attack/Stamina, Defense/Stamina, Defense/Attack, Attack/Defense/Stamina). This is a Defense Beyblade. It only aims to take down opposing Attack types. Girago is not comparable, because it's designed to take down Stamina types as well. So is Diablo.

This is definitely not a Balance type combination. It's straight-up Defense (it can deal with some Stamina types, but nowhere near effectively enough to be considered a competitive option against them).

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

Whatever you say man. I understand the performance differences but isuppose you're right

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

I made a combo similiar to this, which was genbull genbull bd145 rdf, but this combo would be a anti attack bey right?

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[Image: 0268.gif]

Girago is a completely different type of custom. It isn't another variant of this custom. They are two completely different things.

Anti-Attack, is Balance. Balance Beyblades are designed to take down Beyblades of multiple types (IE, Attack/Stamina, Defense/Stamina, Defense/Attack, Attack/Defense/Stamina). This is a Defense Beyblade. It only aims to take down opposing Attack types. Girago is not comparable, because it's designed to take down Stamina types as well. So is Diablo.

This is definitely not a Balance type combination. It's straight-up Defense (it can deal with some Stamina types, but nowhere near effectively enough to be considered a competitive option against them).

Ultimate Blaze, just look 2 posts abovw yours, this will explain why he thinks it isn't Balance/Anti-Attack.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Benchmark with Diablo/ Girago Girago BD145RF please.

I'll get em' Girago Girago BD145RF tests done, however, as I lost my Diablo a little while back, I won't be able to do testings. Probably should of took the Diablo wheel JesseObre offered me for a very little price last weekend, lol. On top of that, I can't promise that I'll get everything done today, as there still are testings I never got back to, so I'd rather focus on devoting my time on that today. *breathes heavily* In addition to that, I still have a couple of things of my own I'd want to work on, as well.

I made a combo similiar to this, which was genbull genbull bd145 rdf

Kinda thought of that, as well, hah.

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RDF has been top-tier for months now, haha.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

@[TheBlackDragon]: Can you test it against MF-L Duo Cancer B : D?

dragon
Just contributing my test. Hope this helps.


MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145 RF vs. MF-L Duo Cancer B:D
-BB-10
-Genbull is launched second everytime
-RF is near prime, and is cleaned in-between rounds
-24 rounds total

Round-by-Round Results:

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1) Duo OS
2) Duo OS
3) Genbull KO
4) Genbull KO
5) Duo OS
6) Duo OS
7) Genbull KO
8) Genbull KO
9) Genbull KO
10) Duo OS
11) Duo OS
12) Duo OS
13) Genbull KO
14) Duo OS
15) Duo OS
16) Genbull KO
17) Duo KO (Genbull Self-KO)
18) Duo OS
19) Genbull KO
20) Duo OS
21) Duo OS
22) Duo OS
23) Duo OS
24) Duo OS

Results:
Genbull: 8 wins (All KO)
Duo: 16 wins (1 KO, 15 OS)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RF win rate: 33.3%

Verdict:
Genbull needs a good clean hit or push in order to KO Duo, otherwise Genbull will just semi-stall around Duo and lose.

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Just DUO it

Genbull needs a good clean hit or push in order to KO Duo, otherwise Genbull will just semi-stall around Duo and lose.

The combo isn't meant to counter stamina, nor is it supposed to have any smash. It obviously wouldn't be the greatest of choices against Duo, seeing as it has defensive potential, too. I don't see why DRAGON would request it over Attack, what it's supposed to counter successfully. Good testing still, Vixxerity, I'm sure TheBlackDragon will appreciate it.

Speaking of the combo, I did some testing against MF-H Flash Pegasis II W105RF last week, and it seemed to be pretty successful, pulling off a 76% win rate. I'm really in favor of this thing, or anything along the lines of this on the tier-list. http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Defense-...pid1251367

Genbull needs a good clean hit or push in order to KO Duo, otherwise Genbull will just semi-stall around Duo and lose.

The combo isn't meant to counter stamina, nor is it supposed to have any smash. It obviously wouldn't be the greatest of choices against Duo, seeing as it has defensive potential, too. I don't see why DRAGON would request it over Attack, what it's supposed to counter successfully. Good testing still, Vixxerity, I'm sure TheBlackDragon will appreciate it.

Speaking of the combo, I did some testing against MF-H Flash Pegasis II W105RF last week, and it seemed to be pretty successful, pulling off a 76% win rate. http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Defense-...pid1251367

I thought it was to counter attack also. I think DRAGON's been coming around most combo threads asking for either Duo B or Libra B testings, who knows why...

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