Er... I beg to differ. Dragooon SA165 actually does very well against most competitive attackers nowadays. Although BD145 may be slightly more effective, it is absolutely not more/just as effective against Stamina and Defense. Not to say it's bad, but the SA165 variant has a much easier time KOing things.

However, I do really, really like Dragooon BD145R2F. It's amazing. It's not exactly a more competitive pick, but it's certainly good. Neither one is more "competitive" than the other. They just work in slightly different ways.

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OK so I have just realized that S130 is not on the tier list for Wyvang WYvang and I will be doing tests to, hopefully, prove that it should. (Or prove that it shouldn't lol). If anyone else would like to do tests as well I would really appreciate it )) Also I need testing against the following: Duo, Dragooon variations, and Flash. Thank you

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OK so I have just realized that S130 is not on the tier list for Wyvang WYvang and I will be doing tests to, hopefully, prove that it should. (Or prove that it shouldn't lol). If anyone else would like to do tests as well I would really appreciate it )) Also I need testing against the following: Duo, Dragooon variations, and Flash. Thank you

Oh my goodness... that's a very good idea! Why hasn't anyone else tested that yet?

I might be able to do some testing later.

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I used all the same parts only changing the track of Wyvang. I was surprised at how well my Wyvang did against Revizer on E230.
CONDITIONS
BB:10
L/R Beylauncher
Prime RF
Prime CS
New GB145
New S130

Benchmark

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-L Wyvang Wyvang GB145 RF vs Reviser Reviser E230 CS
Wyvang: 5 Wins( All KO)
Revizer: 15 Wins(1 KO, 14 OS)
O Ties Redone
Wyvang Win Rate: 25%

Tests

Spoiler (Click to View)

MSF-L Wyvang Wyvang S130 RF vs Reviser Reviser E230 CS
Wyvang: 8 Wins(All KO)
Revizer: 12 Wins(2 KO, 10 OS)
1 Tie Redone
Wyvang Win Rate: 40%

The results were pretty similar, I beleive they are somewhat equal in how well they will do against this combo, except S130 caught a few more breaks than GB145. I think S130 does perform better than GB145 even by a small margin, but I don't think just these results prove that theory, we need more from others! I will do more tests against other combos later since, I believe S130 should be on the tier list paired with Wyvang.

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@ Phantom ____ SR200TB: Those test results are too conflicting; we need more people testing that before we would add it to the list. I can see it going up, though I'd personally always want to use Genbull Genbull SR200TB (well, TH170TB) instead since it is so much heavier. That would actually be something that would be useful to test: Phantom ___ SR200TB vs. Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170)TB.

@ S130 on Wyvang: KainHighwind and I tried it and decided that it didn't make as clean of contact against a number of foes as 145-height tracks did. We settled on CH120 being the best option if one wants a non-145 height track primarily since it CAN be the all-important 145 height. I even tried 135, and while I had extremely high hopes we'd found something 135 is good at it didn't end up doing much better than GB145 x)

@ Death: I'm not honestly sure why Death was shoehorned onto the list like that, but I can't say I'd entirely disagree with the choice. I maintain that Death is better against left spin than Duo on 145-height, but I have no clue if it is any better on F230 since I can't test that

@ MSF-F Genbull Dragooon SA165W2D: Those results against Duo ___ W145WD are phenomenal, but I realllly want to see more users back those tests up. How much was Dragooon winning by? Unfortunately its results against SR200TB and 230D are extremely unremarkable since any right-spin Bey on 170+ height basically autoloses to left spin already.

@ Genbull Genbull E230MB: This custom sounds like it would be so bad, but numerous users saying otherwise is making me really want to test it out! It just seems so weird, lol

@ Wyvang Dragooon BD145R2F: I imagine this is a custom that is just an obviously good cookie cutter custom, such that I could see it needing to be put on the tier list merged with similar customs for completeness's sake. As an example: (MSF(-H)) Wyvang Dragooon BD145(RDF/RF/R2F/LRF) in the Balance section.

EDIT (Click to View)

Every time I make a large post it ends up being the last one before a new page LOL

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4D Customs (Click to View)

• MF-L Phantom (Attack) Cygnus 85MF
  
• MF-H Scythe Uranus 85RS
  
• MF-H Flash Orion W145MF
  
• MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F
  
• Duo Cygnus 160PD
  

MFB Customs (Click to View)

• MSF-H Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD
  
• MSF-H Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F
  
• MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
  

@ S130 on Wyvang: KainHighwind and I tried it and decided that it didn't make as clean of contact against a number of foes as 145-height tracks did. We settled on CH120 being the best option if one wants a non-145 height track primarily since it CAN be the all-important 145 height. I even tried 135, and while I had extremely high hopes we'd found something 135 is good at it didn't end up doing much better than GB145 x)

EDIT (Click to View)

Every time I make a large post it ends up being the last one before a new page LOL

My results say otherwise, I'll do more tests, but if enough people get similar results I think you should consider putting it on the tier list.

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@ Genbull Genbull E230MB: This custom sounds like it would be so bad, but numerous users saying otherwise is making me really want to test it out! It just seems so weird, lol

Check my thread ;3

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Veteran, just getting back into the sway of things

Yes, Genbull/Girago Genbull E230MB is a must-have for the list in my opinion. Dr. soda over here has done plenty of testing, along with myself, and it's already placed twice. So yah, I think it's time we threw it up there.

That said, I am insanely supportive of Phantom TB. The thing is a monster. Although I didn't actually get to test against Genbull SR200TB, Phantom did better against Stamina for the most part. I'd love that and Wyvang Dragooon BD145R2F/LRF/RF on the list as well.

Er, I could live with Death F230CF/GCF staying up there, but as Kei stated in its testing thread Duo does just about everything better.

Also, does anyone think Girago Girago SA165MF deserves a spot? I really, really like it and I don't see any reason it wouldn't be a competitive custom. Sure, it does lose to Dragooon, but so does Genbull SR200TB, Duo 230D/SD/TH170D/SD/SR200TB, E230 defense of any kind, BD145CS/RSF/RB defenders, and all kinds of stuff.

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Where's Reviser/Killerken Dragooon BD145RDF? It's a proven top tier combo.

Where's Reviser/Killerken Dragooon BD145RDF? It's a proven top tier combo.

It kind of already is only with SA165, I am not sure but I think SA165 does a significantly better job so the BD145 option was left out...

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Actually, one isn't really better than the other... they're just alternate options. It's all based on preference.

But somebody had a reason for not putting Dragooon BD145 on the list with Killerken or Revizer of which I remember nothing. I don't actually know why it isn't on there.

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Actually, one isn't really better than the other... they're just alternate options. It's all based on preference.

But somebody had a reason for not putting Dragooon BD145 on the list with Killerken or Revizer of which I remember nothing. I don't actually know why it isn't on there.

so... SA165 was better on the custom, since there is no other reason to leave it off otherwise. Which is basically what I was saying...
I believe it is because SA165 provides better LAD...

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I think one of the admins said they didn't like it for some reason and then discussion on it stopped although when the uk was active it was rampant over there and I dominated a finals in Virginia using it

Yes, but BD145 provides much higher precession. I don't remember the reason for not adding it, but IMO it couldn't of been a good one.

SA165 on Dragooon does have a very strange tendency to avoid being shoved out of the stadium in the manner than opposite-spin attackers KO their opponents, but BD145 provides more Defense against raw smash. They both serve pretty much the same purpose, and it all comes down to which Track the blader prefers.

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The Killerken/Revizer Dragooon BD145RDF isn't up there because Wyvang Dragooon does worlds better for the combo.

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(Click to View)

Tournaments I've Attended (Click to View)

4/29/12: The Spring Sortie (BB-10)
7/22/12: The Triple Threat (MFB+Plastics+HMS formats)
9/23/12: Autumn's Assault (Zero G)
October 2012: October Achtung (Zero G) (placed second)
12/15/12: Holiday Havoc! (Zero-G)
2/24/13: Paper vs. Plastic (Zero-G+Plastic Formats)
4/21/13: BR Maryland Qualifier (Zero-G)
5/26/12: BeyDays 2013! (BB-10) (placed first)
7/14/13: Heated Metal Plastic-y Madness! (HMS + Plastics) (placed third in HMS)
7/20/13: The Bey Brawl! (BB-10)
9/28/13 "OK, alright, mirai~!" (BB-10) (placed second)
12/15/13 No Limit Holdem'! (Zero-G, Limited)
1/19/14 Happy Gnu Year! (Zero-G)
2/23/14 Better Late Than Never! (Limited, Plastics, which I got 3rd in)
3/29/14 GBT2 North Carolina Qualfier (Limited, got 4th)
3/30/14 GBT2 Maryland Qualifier (Limited)
6/8/14 A Prehistoric Venture (Limited, HMS, placed first in HMS)
6/21/14 A Timely Farewell (Standard, Tag-Team (not official format), Zero-G, placed first in tag-team and third in Zero-G)

My Testing Threads (All Zero-G) (Click to View)

Diablo Kerbecs E230CF
SB Discussion
Q Discussion
MB Discussion
RS Discussion
BWD Discussion
MF-H Gravity Perseus BD145 RDF
MF-H Duo F230CF
F:S Discussion
SA165 Discussion

HMS Resources (Click to View)

HMS Question and Answer Thread
Competitive HMS Combos List
HMS Parts Discussion
HMS General Discussion

Ah... that was it. Thanks for reminding me. XD

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I'm not going to stop testing until S130 is on the tier list with GB145, Where it belongs. Please help me with tests so I can have something to weigh my results against.
@Inguilt did you guys actually do formal testing on the S130 variant or was it just informal?

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@theblackdragon:
Haha, you corrected me on that same topic XD

For Revizer Dragooon SA165RDF, I would include BD145... IIRC some people prefer BD145 over the taller SA165.

Well, Wyvang Dragooon BD145RDF is already up there. IIRC that's just an improvement on Reviser Dragooon BD145RDF... I don't really see a reason to put Reviser there when Wyvang is clearly superior.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

ere are a few of my tests with MSF-L Girago Genbull SA165 GF in a BB-10.

Standard Procedure and Alternating Shots starting with Girago Genbull. SA165 was in Zero G Attack Mode. The reason is that I found that SA165 (ZGA) + GF = Maximum Precession + LAD Ability.

MSF-L Girago Genbull SA165 GF vs MSF-H Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

Girago Genbull: 13/20 (10 KO, 3 OS)
Genbull Dragooon: 7/20 (2 KO, 5 OS)

Girago Genbull Win Rate: 65 %

How about Phantom 100CF? In my testing it seems to have potential as a good staller and good anti spin-equalizer.

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How about Phantom 100CF? In my testing it seems to have potential as a good staller and good anti spin-equalizer.

I haven't seen much tests for this combo so we can't really say something needs to go on the Top Tier List when it hasn't had much testing. If you posted your testing that you did that would probably help you get Phantom 100 CF on the Tier list if your tests and other members tested proofed that it actually deserves to be on it.

How about Phantom 100CF? In my testing it seems to have potential as a good staller and good anti spin-equalizer.

I haven't seen much tests for this combo so we can't really say something needs to go on the Top Tier List when it hasn't had much testing. If you posted your testing that you did that would probably help you get Phantom 100 CF on the Tier list if your tests and other members tested proofed that it actually deserves to be on it.

To add on, I've experimented with TheSupremeOne with this combo, as well as it with GCF and GF. The results were not incredibly, horribly, bad- but the combo just doesn't do as well as (85) MF.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

I've decided that it's time for me to start contributing to this thread with tests.

Genbull Dragooon F230(Orange)GCF vs MSF Bahamdia Ifraid SA165(Normal Mode)R2F
Dragooon launched first always. R2F is in prime condition
Dragooon wins: 11/10(10 OS, 1 KO)
Ifraid wins: 9/10(all KO)
Ifraid Win Percentage: 45%

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I am your dog.
Thanks for the sig, Rock kyoya!

Oh my gosh... it's about time someone tried that!

Thanks Shiny. I'll try to get some results up later if I can.

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ere are a few of my tests with MSF-L Girago Genbull SA165 GF in a BB-10.

Standard Procedure and Alternating Shots starting with Girago Genbull. SA165 was in Zero G Attack Mode. The reason is that I found that SA165 (ZGA) + GF = Maximum Precession + LAD Ability.

MSF-L Girago Genbull SA165 GF vs MSF-H Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

Girago Genbull: 13/20 (10 KO, 3 OS)
Genbull Dragooon: 7/20 (2 KO, 5 OS)

Girago Genbull Win Rate: 65 %

I actually really like the concept of this combo. IMO, it really needs further testing, but genbull seems really out of place. I'd suggest soemthing like Wyvang on bottom and Girago on top.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him