I tested! Duo Gasher SA165WD VS Revizer Dragooon E230CF. Duo 8 wins 7 OS, 1 KO, Dragooon 3 wins all OS. 2 ties redone, I don't know how the KO happened. The tests are unfinshed and are for ryukibas thread.
MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion
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As I said, not many Dragooons can beat Duo, but it can beat other things.
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As a response to Kei's post in the Advanced Forum. Gryph Gryph E230BSF does generally well against Duo SA165. (note: I used W2D in tests) I did informal tests and with a straight launch E230 destabilizes Duo/SA165 excellently.
(Sep. 19, 2013 10:12 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I feel like we've gotten a pretty darn good list together, so until we get official word as to whether or not we'll see an update soon...
CAN OF WORMS TIME
What does everybody think regarding this: Should the competitive customs list favor only the THEORETICALLY best customs (regardless of their popularity), or should it favor POPULAR parts and customs (meaning the parts you are most likely to run into at a tournament)?
The best example I can think of of a part that would be on one list and not the other is B. If the list is only concerned with the theoretical best, then it would not be on the list due to its laughably poor defense and awkward height. However, if tournament popularity was a bigger factor, B
One argument for favoring theory is that the list would be the "true" best of the best. An argument for favoring tournament popularity is that the list would be a better indicator of what one is most likely to face in a tournament situation.
Thoughts?
The bad thing with having a "metagame" list is metas vary wildly. There is no unified meta. As such, I believe it is up to members of their meta to write their own list for their particular meta. I know the Italians for one have done this before.
@B
- The main reason it isn't on is because its stamina isn't good unless you get super duper lucky and get a 7 min one, and thats only until it wears. I for one used to have a 7 min, but now it is a 3, sadly. See more on the stamina here- http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-TBT-In-P...-all-BB-10
That goes over it very well.
I think popularity should be left to the winning combos thread, but my favorite example of this is revizer dragoon bd145 rdf which runs rampant in the uk, but doesn't make the tier list (which I obeject to btw)
Because Wyvang Dragooon does so much better.
It's actually Wyvang Dragooon BTW, but I also object on B not being on the tier list, it gives a great boost of Stamina, and also has good Precession. Also, I know this is gonna sound stupid but... I believe SWD has Stamina potential, at LakeSide BeyBattles, I used another secret combo against Yuko Ray14(who was using Duo SA165W2D) and we tied so many times we had to pick different beys. I also used A secret combo that uses SWD against Yuko Ray14 again and beat him 3-1 or 3-2 and he was using Killerken Dragooon BD145RDF? Nevertheless, I think SWD should be re looked IMO.
not being on the tier list, it gives a great boost of Stamina, and also has good Precession. Also, I know this is gonna sound stupid but... I believe SWD has Stamina potential, at LakeSide BeyBattles, I used another secret combo against Yuko Ray14(who was using Duo SA165W2D) and we tied so many times we had to pick different beys. I also used A secret combo that uses SWD against Yuko Ray14 again and beat him 3-1 or 3-2 and he was using Killerken Dragooon BD145RDF? Nevertheless, I think SWD should be re looked IMO.
I never used Killerken Dragooon against you, And the only reason I lost the second time was that self KO, and odd wobbling haha (you still did beat me fair and square). But nonetheless I do agree, I have been using SWD on my Duo for a about 3 months now and I have found that it truly does strait up more stamina than WD and sometimes even EWD. I believe it was brought up that SWD was good for stamina about a year ago in the Competitive Combos Thread before Zero G came out, and at one point it was Top Tier. It stands it's ground vs opposite spin so I to think it should be looked into.
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Re-testing SWD might be worth looking into, yes. For reference, here's the original testing thread: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Sharp-Wi...Discussion
I tend to dislike it because of its poor balance towards the end of battles. However, the question isn't "Is it good?"–because it is regardless of its relatively poor balance–but "Is it as good as WD, EWD, D, etc.?". And now that I think of it, an interesting opponent for it would be BWD, since both have inferior precession capability in comparison to WD and EWD.
I tend to dislike it because of its poor balance towards the end of battles. However, the question isn't "Is it good?"–because it is regardless of its relatively poor balance–but "Is it as good as WD, EWD, D, etc.?". And now that I think of it, an interesting opponent for it would be BWD, since both have inferior precession capability in comparison to WD and EWD.
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It does have poor balance at the end of the battles, but if you are in a spin steal battle against Dragooon or Duo you will have ties or whoever has SWD will outspin, by only a quarter rotation or so.
I just had like a dozen tests I did over the weekend, so I'm just gonna post them here, since they involve SA165 stamina and Dragooon F230:
Duo Cancer SA165EWD:
Reviser Dragooon F230CF:
Genbull Genbull SR200 TB:
SA165EWD vs. B : D - opposite-spin performance comparison:
Duo Cancer SA165EWD:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Reviser Dragooon F230CF:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Genbull Genbull SR200 TB:
Spoiler (Click to View)
SA165EWD vs. B : D - opposite-spin performance comparison:
Spoiler (Click to View)
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I did some informal testing with Reviser Dragooon SA165SWD vs Duo____W145WD, Dragooon got 70% and Duo got 30% 5 ties were re-done.
Whoops, I meant to add Flash for attack, my mistake. 
Oh and RDF.
What about TB besides on genbull genbull?
Oh and RDF. What about TB besides on genbull genbull?
You forgot about Duo SR200TB. Who vouches for SWD being considered for Stamina/Spin-Stealing Bottom?
SWD loses balance a lot quicker and won't wobble as long as EWD does from my experience.
Actually, me and Yuko have found that SWD does amazingly in opposite-spin matchups. I was using Reviser Dragooon SA165SWD in informal testing against Duo W145WD, Dragooon got a 70% win rate. I can test for Duo vs Phantom, Phantom TH170D vs Duo W145SWD.
SWD could use some testing on left-spin, yeah. I'm not sure it will prove comparable to EWD from past experience, but official tests never hurt!
SWD was on the competitive list for a long time for standard stamina, but it was taken off since it never actually had tests that provided a reason why one wouldn't just use WD instead. I've always liked SWD, but I'm not conviced it is an actually competitive part over WD/EWD.
One thing SWD does have in its favor, though, is the fact it stays in the center longer than WD/EWD since it can tilt at a larger angle before the rim touches the ground and it starts roaming. That is definitely a nice feature.
SWD was on the competitive list for a long time for standard stamina, but it was taken off since it never actually had tests that provided a reason why one wouldn't just use WD instead. I've always liked SWD, but I'm not conviced it is an actually competitive part over WD/EWD.
One thing SWD does have in its favor, though, is the fact it stays in the center longer than WD/EWD since it can tilt at a larger angle before the rim touches the ground and it starts roaming. That is definitely a nice feature.
I use it on low stamina customs. It works pretty well, although I'm in no mood to test after the amount I did with my combo. The freaking tornado stalling matches... When I regain the stamina (lololol) I'll see what I can do.
Couldn't FB kinda do the same thing? I don't even have it but I'd love to find use for it because it's one my favorites for some reason. It sounds like something that might be good but apparently hasn't found much use, haha. That didn't make sense, I like it yet I don't have it XD.
(Sep. 26, 2013 4:50 AM)DrPepsidew Wrote: I use it on low stamina customs. It works pretty well, although I'm in no mood to test after the amount I did with my combo. The freaking tornado stalling matches... When I regain the stamina (lololol) I'll see what I can do.
I actually do the same thing! I love SWD on low tracks; Phantom Cancer 85SWD does good work at destabilizing 145-height stamina customs, but unfortunately that isn't a hugely relevant feature in today's meta
(Sep. 26, 2013 4:51 AM)Tri Wrote: Couldn't FB kinda do the same thing? I don't even have it but I'd love to find use for it because it's one my favorites for some reason. It sounds like something that might be good but apparently hasn't found much use, haha. That didn't make sense, I like it yet I don't have it XD.
Dude, definitely get it if you can, it's a really unique and awesome part! It has the strangest movement pattern, kind of hard to describe. It's one of the few remaining parts that are relatively untested that show the potential to enable an awesome balance custom centered around that part if someone can find it. It's a really fun part to experiment with, at the very least!
If I had two Phantoms, I would mirror match them so we can see which has more Stamina. SWD really works magic on Dragooon.
Personally, when I informally tested Duo W145 SWD against Dragooon BD145 RDF, it lost, and even when I swapped W145 to SA165 it just barely lost, while W2D won.
EDIT: meant Duo SWD
EDIT: meant Duo SWD
For me, that didn't happen. Everytime, Duo won by OS with SWD. I'll test today for proof and edit this post.
While we're on the topic of D-series bottoms, can we please PLEASE PLEASE kick SD? No one ever uses it in tournaments anymore. Tests have proven D is superior on TH170+ heights, and WD, EWD, and BWD have proven better on 145- heights. Ingulit's testing proved PD works best on 160 with D as a close second, but not many people own PD so it's not too common of a setup. W2D and EWD are used on SA165 and all Dragooon Spin-Equalizers.
It's basically like Aquario. It still works, but in every situation there's another, equally-if-not-more common part that performs better. And in the Advanced thread, people have been talking about kicking Aquario.
It's basically like Aquario. It still works, but in every situation there's another, equally-if-not-more common part that performs better. And in the Advanced thread, people have been talking about kicking Aquario.