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MF Meteo LDrago CH120XF!

Jun. 05, 2011  3:03 AM
 
Considering tests of MLD 100WD vs. Earth Bull 100WD shouldnt Earth Bull BD145R2F Hard Counter MF LLD BD145LRF?
Jun. 05, 2011  3:07 AM
 
I'd love to respond to all of this since what Fyuuor is saying is very true, but I'm going to have to go off-topic for a moment because I know that he is reading this thread. Fyuuor, please read the numerous PMs that Kai-V has been sending you for months, and respond to them immediately or else we will be forced to warn/suspend you.
Jun. 05, 2011  3:10 AM
 
Well if your bringing it up in my thread, might I have the courtesy of knowing what it is about?
Strictly police business?
McFrown: MF-H Basalt Kerbecs C145R2F tanks MF Lightning LDrago BD145LRF. Yeeh, take it in, C145 gettin' it done. lol.
Jun. 05, 2011  3:13 AM
 
(Jun. 05, 2011  3:07 AM)Kei Wrote: I'd love to respond to all of this since what Fyuuor is saying is very true, but I'm going to have to go off-topic for a moment because I know that he is reading this thread. Fyuuor, please read the numerous PMs that Kai-V has been sending you for months, and respond to them immediately or else we will be forced to warn/suspend you.

All done.

(Jun. 05, 2011  2:54 AM)Dan Wrote: Well said, and I completely agree with RS being undermined unjustly. (no matter how much I like CS, haha)
This combination has not been prominent at tournaments at all since it requires getting used to and changes the mindset of an RF-based player. (me being one of them.) I am having great difficulty going back to XF now. Transition is hell.

I can only imagine. In a Tournament situation switching between XF and RF/R2F whilst getting used to the speeds and movement patterns of the two tips would be quite hard.

(Jun. 05, 2011  3:03 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Considering tests of MLD 100WD vs. Earth Bull 100WD shouldnt Earth Bull BD145R2F Hard Counter MF LLD BD145LRF?

In theory it should work, though I don't have a 2nd BD145 to test this theory.
Jun. 05, 2011  3:59 AM
 
carp, this is maximum meteor, lol.
I tested it against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS(220 mode)
Maximum Meteor (on a 145 track) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS(220 mode)

Maximum Meteor: 12
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS(220 mode): 3
Draws: 0
Maximum Meteor win percentage: 80%
BTW, has anyone tried Maximum Meteor on TH170?
Jun. 05, 2011  4:15 AM
 
Alright here are some results on the combo Fyuuor suggested:
MF Meteo L Drago CH120XF (120 height) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 85RS
BK: KO (MLD Self-KO'd)
BK: KO
MLD: OS
BK: KO
MLD: OS
MLD: OS
BK: KO
BK: KO
Tie
Tie

Meteo L Drago: 3 Wins. All OS.
Basalt Kerbecs: 5 Wins. All KO.
2 ties. Basalt and Meteo stole spin from each other and equalized.

When Meteo L Drago out-spun Basalt Kerbecs it would be mostly from spin-stealing. Despite Basalt being on a RS Fyuuor was correct, it would start to lose balance when hit by the Metal wheel but when it touched the rubber it would regain balance and wouldn't get destabilized. Therefore, Basalt has potential to steal spin off Meteo L Drago and RS would not suffer from balance issues.
Jun. 05, 2011  4:44 AM
 
Well played, whichever administrator was on duty. (Kai-V most likely)
Haha, I won't offend anymore. Shame that " -nickname- combination parts" isn't tolerated.
Jun. 05, 2011  7:08 PM
 
I felt like this deserved a double post:
I'm coming to the conclusion that XF can be worn down, and in a serious way. At the start of this thread, my XF was not so heavily used, so things like MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS didn't faze the combination at all. Since then, I used MF Meteo LDrago CH120XF constantly for fun. Nevertheless, I have reason to believe that my XF has seriously decreased in longevity since it can now only tie my MF-H Basalt Bull BD145CS (all the same parts) constantly. Since Bluezee will have have his team over, he will do copious amounts of tests with varying XF's at different wear states. I have asked him to put a picture up of a worn XF vs. a mint (or near mint) XF and I'm assuming there will be a bit of a height difference. I've also noticed that my XF has been obtaining some residue after a couple of matches, which did not occur when it was mint, at all. I don't know what thats all about but seriously, a worn XF limits the combination severely, like a worn LRF would to MF Lightning LDrago BD145LRF.
Jun. 05, 2011  7:17 PM
 
This and the fact that MF/MB can apparently wear down a lot surprises me. And its edges would still be fine, only the height would have decreased ? How heavily have you used XF ?
Jun. 05, 2011  7:24 PM
 
From March to May almost daily for kicks.
As for the height/edges, I have no clue as I never though of making mental images or images in general of before and afters of XF because I didn't think it would wear down like this. I'm going to need Bluezee to get pictures up, and then I can really diagnose it, because right now, its just a major loss in effectiveness.
Jun. 05, 2011  8:26 PM
 
(Jun. 05, 2011  7:17 PM)Kai-V Wrote: This and the fact that MF/MB can apparently wear down a lot surprises me. And its edges would still be fine, only the height would have decreased ? How heavily have you used XF ?

I have a worn down XF too, and the edges are definitely not fine. It kinda look like a 'muffin top'. It moves somewhat defensively too, an aggressive defensive bottom (if this makes sense).
Jun. 05, 2011  8:38 PM
 
Yeah, vouching for MB wear also; mine's become significantly more aggressive since I first started using it. Visually it just looks like the tip is a lot shinier, as if only the top layer has been worn, but I'm sure there has to be quite a bit of wear for it to move in such a dramatically different fashion. Its stamina has decreased a lot, too.

If MB can wear, I'm almost certain XF can wear too.
Jun. 05, 2011  9:05 PM
 
I'll put this in the OP as this seriously affects my combinations performance; from being able to topple defense giants to barely tying with them..
Jun. 06, 2011  12:27 AM
 
(Jun. 05, 2011  4:15 AM)Hero Wrote: Alright here are some results on the combo Fyuuor suggested:
MF Meteo L Drago CH120XF (120 height) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs 85RS
BK: KO (MLD Self-KO'd)
BK: KO
MLD: OS
BK: KO
MLD: OS
MLD: OS
BK: KO
BK: KO
Tie
Tie

Meteo L Drago: 3 Wins. All OS.
Basalt Kerbecs: 5 Wins. All KO.
2 ties. Basalt and Meteo stole spin from each other and equalized.

When Meteo L Drago out-spun Basalt Kerbecs it would be mostly from spin-stealing. Despite Basalt being on a RS Fyuuor was correct, it would start to lose balance when hit by the Metal wheel but when it touched the rubber it would regain balance and wouldn't get destabilized. Therefore, Basalt has potential to steal spin off Meteo L Drago and RS would not suffer from balance issues.

Thank you for testing this.

Just wondering with the 3 wins from Meteo, do you remember how you launched it? I'd be interested to know whether or not the outspin which occurred from Meteo was from it constantly circling and avoiding contact with Basalt, or contact was made through out the entire battle.


(Jun. 05, 2011  7:08 PM)Dan Wrote: I felt like this deserved a double post:
I'm coming to the conclusion that XF can be worn down, and in a serious way. At the start of this thread, my XF was not so heavily used, so things like MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS didn't faze the combination at all. Since then, I used MF Meteo LDrago CH120XF constantly for fun. Nevertheless, I have reason to believe that my XF has seriously decreased in longevity since it can now only tie my MF-H Basalt Bull BD145CS (all the same parts) constantly. Since Bluezee will have have his team over, he will do copious amounts of tests with varying XF's at different wear states. I have asked him to put a picture up of a worn XF vs. a mint (or near mint) XF and I'm assuming there will be a bit of a height difference. I've also noticed that my XF has been obtaining some residue after a couple of matches, which did not occur when it was mint, at all. I don't know what thats all about but seriously, a worn XF limits the combination severely, like a worn LRF would to MF Lightning LDrago BD145LRF.

This isn't something that I've noticed or thought about previously. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to help too much in comparisons of my XF's, since they're all relatively mint with very little use. However, I'll take a look anyways and tell you whether or not there is a varying difference of wear between them all.
Jun. 06, 2011  12:32 AM
 
I didn't think of this until now, when I started getting different results than the OP.
I'd like your results with this combination anyway, and perhaps after a while you'll see differences too. (I swear, a month or two tops, then it'll tank)
By the way, how long does RS last? (Solo-spin wise)
Jun. 06, 2011  12:40 AM
 
To be honest I wouldn't be able to give you an accurate measure of time from the top of my head. I'll need to conduct some quick tests. I'll get back to you
Jun. 06, 2011  12:41 AM
 
Thanks, by the way, while your at it, validate some of my OP tests?
This combination needs other testers.

(Jun. 05, 2011  3:59 AM)othellog Wrote: carp, this is maximum meteor, lol.
I tested it against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS(220 mode)
Maximum Meteor (on a 145 track) vs MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS(220 mode)

Maximum Meteor: 12
MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS(220 mode): 3
Draws: 0
Maximum Meteor win percentage: 80%
BTW, has anyone tried Maximum Meteor on TH170?

Wow, I'm so sorry this was completely unnoticed!
By the way, start calling this its combination parts, nick-names not allowed anymore.
Thanks for the results! And just like Fyuuor, validate some of the OP testing with your own!
Jun. 06, 2011  8:30 AM
 
Here we are, I might even make a video or create a new thread for this combo.


Banking Shot:
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS VS MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH120XF
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS: 20 Wins (15 KO, 5 OS)
MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH120XF: 0 Wins
Basalt Win Percentage: 100%

Stalling (Circling the Tornado Ridge)
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS VS MF MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH120XF
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS: 18 Wins (6 KO, 12 OS)
MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH120XF: 2 Wins (2 OS)
Basalt Win Percentage: 90%


Banking Shot:
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS VS MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH145XF
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS: 19 Wins (10 KO, 9 OS)
MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH145XF: 1 Wins (1 KO)
Basalt Win Percentage: 95%


Stalling (Circling the Tornado Ridge):
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS VS MF MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH145XF
MF – H Basalt Bull 85RS: 18 Wins (5 KO, 13 OS)
MF Meteo L Drago (Absorb Mode)CH145XF: 2 Wins (1 KO, 1 OS)
Basalt Win Percentage: 90%

I found that Meteo in Absorb Mode at the height of 120 faired the worst when it was being banked. During the first few seconds of battle or when Meteo was about to start circling the stadium, the moment Meteo made contact against Basalt it was KO'd instantly. The speed at which Meteo was travelling worked in Basalt's favor as it helped Meteo become propelled against Basalt much easier.However, I did find that Meteo was able to increase it's win rate slightly by switching to a track height of 145, while launching Meteo in straight shot manner this enabled Meteo to stall the match so to speak, and help Meteo from making direct contact with Basalt in the opening stages of the battle. Due to avoiding contact with Basalt in the early exhanges, Meteo's chances of being KO'd are reduced exponentially along with the potential of Basalt absorbing Meteo's spin. In being able to create a lengthly opening passage the battle swayed in Meteo's favor, however it wasn't enough to alter the results which were recorded dramatically.

In future, if an opponent where to be using Meteo against this particular Basalt combo, I'd suggest to perform a powerful controlled straight shot in an attempt to draw out the opening passages of play. This reduces Meteo's chances of being KO'd and the likelihood of Basalt stealing spin from Meteo.
Jun. 06, 2011  8:36 AM
 
Amazing results fyuuor i would like to test this
Jun. 06, 2011  9:37 AM
 
I'll test this tonight, but I'm shocked. The issue with rs is it's impracticality in a tournament situation, given it loses quite easily to a lot of newb combo's, and relies on accurate prediction to avoid failing. As I said, I'll test this, but I'm pretty surprised. Expect results tomorrow or whatever.

FWIW, I believe we use assault mode, not absorb?


EDIT: I can get better winrates than Fyuoor in short testing (I've had to go out for tea, but on the upside, INTERNET!), but it's not an easy combo to do well against. Basically, it's extremely good at getting Meteo to self-KO (and if you're using absorb mode, I can see why it was happening so often), as meteo bounces off, and can skip the tornado ridge etc. As basalt moves around, it is hard to avoid it with meteo, but launching at 100% and trying to tornado stall the whole match seems to be the most reliable strategy. You CAN outspin it, but it can go either way.

For the record, I've been using Basalt KERBECS, as Kerbecs can be oriented to stabilise basalt a bit.

So yeah, Dan, get RS and test. I'll do full testing when I get back home
Jun. 06, 2011  12:10 PM
 
Okay, Fyuuuor missed out on one thing to try; banking it at 20-30% power which in most cases (doubtably this one) maximizes Meteo's Spin-Stealing/Equalizing. IIRC when playing LTDC's I mentioned in OP to switch to 145 lol.
So yeah, some testing wasn't required there, I have a lot of advice in OP.
I'm still a bit hesitant because honestly, I think that by the time Meteo reaches Basalt (Through Tornado Ridge Stalling) most of Basalt's stamina is gone, even to a point when spin equalizing between the two is useless. I could be wrong, and apparently so. I'm definitely going to get Bluezee to test this since 1. He knows Meteo XF as well as I do now, 2. He has a mint XF, so whatever results I get now stamina wise are half-skewed.
Jun. 06, 2011  12:14 PM
 
My stuff is with a mint xf too. 20% can work, you still habe to be careful about KO and it can still OS you, afaik. Gotta play more though.
Jun. 06, 2011  12:51 PM
 
The margin of victory Basalt achieves over Meteo in OS's is incredibly small. It can go either way, though in the battles I recorded Basalt seemed to have a slight edge even in stalling. However, I'll give your advice a go Dan. It might be the deciding factor. I'll do what you said, I'll bank Meteo at 20-30% launch power at 145 track height in an attempt to stall Basalt. I'll get back to you with results probably tomorrow.
Jun. 07, 2011  2:09 AM
 
(Jun. 06, 2011  12:27 AM)Fyuuor Wrote: Thank you for testing this.

Just wondering with the 3 wins from Meteo, do you remember how you launched it? I'd be interested to know whether or not the outspin which occurred from Meteo was from it constantly circling and avoiding contact with Basalt, or contact was made through out the entire battle.

No problem. I banked it so it hit it about 5 or 6 times then started circling the tornado ridge. Contact was made then lost. I also had a partner launch the other beyblade at the same time, we alternated half way.

I used the mode where the red rubber is over the silver jaws. I can't seem to remember which mode it is at the moment ...
Jun. 09, 2011  9:49 AM
 
Should be using the mode where the jaws are under the heads. Makes it harder to KO yourself by bouncing off stuff, and doesn't really have negative effects tbh.

Anyway, missed the XF Wear discussion. Basically, what happens is that over time, the surface becomes rougher/more scratched, from whatever tiny specks of whatever end up on the beystadium, plus friction, as usual. These scratches/nicks/abrasions increase the friction the tip creates, lowering it's stamina. That, IMO is the main wear issue it suffers.
Obviously, the friction against the sides of the Tornado ridge wears XF's edges too, as does whatever's on the floor, as often it's not totally flat, methinks, it's the edge in contact. Uncertain

With MF, it's more that it has a tendency to chip itself somehow, or get nicks at the side, which seem to drastically affect it's stamina. One of mine managed to chip without being used illegaly, and I always cover hard surfaces before blading, so how it got chipped is a mystery, again, maybe just tiny stuff on the stadium floor or whatever.
Also, like RF, gunk can build up on the bottom of MF, so it should be wiped clean regularly.
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