[Hasbro]  The unbanning of the turbo exclusives in burst classic

A lot of players gravitate towards Burst Classic because Burst Standard, depending on the releases at the time, can be fundamentally flawed. When a new top tier layer is released, like Perfect Phoenix, or Judgement, or Lord, there's a very pay-to-win rush towards it. And a lot of matches in the past year have been opposite spin LAD tests that are incredibly hard to judge, with numerous ties. It can be annoying, and even boring!

Whenever Standard stagnates, Classic becomes interesting again. And for several months in the past year, Standard was stagnant. And we're about to hit a fresh layer of stagnant thanks to Lord. It might be less than the previous stagnation period since Judgement and Zwei and certain defensive layers are viable defeats for it, but unless the Customize Set does something interesting to the meta without breaking everything, we're in for more stagnate.

The great thing about Classic is how Hasbro is actually viable. There are some really decent Hasbro combos that you can get which can take you all the way to the finals. I really apprecaited Classic because Hasbro bladers had a fair chance. In Standard, well, they don't.

Up until recently, Burst Classic layers were still readily available in stores in the US, like Target or Walmart, or even local grocery stores. Sadly, it seems they've all stopped stocking Classic legal layers. So now it's a pain to find them. Honestly, we should hurry and release Burst Limited before all the God layers disappear from shelves more than they already have.

If there's no demand for Classic in your region, then there's no demand for Classic in your region, just run standard. But enough people here on the East Coast find Classic interesting enough to keep playing. I enjoy how the game plays, and the variety of competitive layers, as opposed to just the 8 or so you get in standard.
If they are unbanned it kinda removes the “classic” feel to it.
(Oct. 06, 2019  4:57 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: If they are banned it kinda removes the “classic” feel to it.

Banned or unbanned?
(Oct. 06, 2019  4:36 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Up until recently, Burst Classic layers were still readily available in stores in the US, like Target or Walmart, or even local grocery stores. Sadly, it seems they've all stopped stocking Classic legal layers. So now it's a pain to find  them. Honestly, we should hurry and release Burst Limited before all the God layers disappear from shelves more than they already have.

If there's no demand for Classic in your region, then there's no demand for Classic in your region, just run standard. But enough people here on the East Coast find Classic interesting enough to keep playing. I enjoy how the game plays, and the variety of competitive layers, as opposed to just the 8 or so you get in standard.
Thank you for your reply!  I too think availability’s can be an issue and I absolutely agree Hasbro classic legal things are no longer in stores.  

I am a bit hard headed about formats that I think are excellent I guess.  I will make attempts to make them work.   I mean I am hosting HMS tournaments in LA....  I think we have enough burst standard tournaments in LA.  Technically there are Burst standard tournaments at least once if not twice a week at Toy Mandala (not all are WBO) on top of the WBO tournaments.
(Oct. 06, 2019  4:58 AM)Dt20000 Wrote:
(Oct. 06, 2019  4:57 AM)UltimateMaster Wrote: If they are banned it kinda removes the “classic” feel to it.

Banned or unbanned?
Unbanned, I’m really tired.
(Oct. 06, 2019  2:59 AM)Wombat Wrote: *large quote removed*

Burst Classic is a limited format scaled to the power level of older beyblades, sure. That might have something to do with the fact that it is a Format “dedicated to old Single & Dual Layer System parts which can no longer fit in the metagame”. I understand that it is an issue of availability, but if you are playing a mode literally called “Burst Classic”, you really should bring the older Beyblades. This is not a Burst Limited Format.

There is a reason the Ban List doesn’t include the stronger recent beyblades and allow newer beyblades. It is because this is a Format specifically for the Single and Dual Layer Beyblades to compete for a meta that isn’t bland and restricted. Adding in new beyblades that not only go against the purpose of the format but also barely compete just for the sake of adding new beyblades isn’t a great decision, logically speaking.
(Oct. 06, 2019  5:18 AM)Dt20000 Wrote:
(Oct. 06, 2019  2:59 AM)Wombat Wrote: *large quote removed*

Burst Classic is a limited format scaled to the power level of older beyblades, sure. That might have something to do with the fact that it is a Format “dedicated to old Single & Dual Layer System parts which can no longer fit in the metagame”. I understand that it is an issue of availability, but if you are playing a mode literally called “Burst Classic”, you really should bring the older Beyblades. This is not a Burst Limited Format.

There is a reason the Ban List doesn’t include the stronger recent beyblades and allow newer beyblades. It is because this is a Format specifically for the Single and Dual Layer Beyblades to compete for a meta that isn’t bland and restricted. Adding in new beyblades that not only go against the purpose of the format but also barely compete just for the sake of adding new beyblades isn’t a great decision, logically speaking.

This will be the last time I correct you on this, since you seem to take so much glee in knowingly being wrong about this issue and I don't want to feed the troll any further.

As one of the creators of Burst Classic, in my previous post I clearly explained the purpose of the format, as well as reason why it is named the way it is. If you can think of a better name that conveys the purpose and intent of the format more clearly than the current one seems to, since that is what you seem to be so hung up about, by all means do so. But stating that the underpowered and otherwise useless Turbo parts should not be allowed in a format that was specifically created partially with the intent of including them (I only say partially because nostalgia and the poor state of Burst Standard at the time were also reasons for its creation) is honestly such an absurd notion that I'm not really willing to entertain it anymore.
(Oct. 06, 2019  5:18 AM)Dt20000 Wrote:
(Oct. 06, 2019  2:59 AM)Wombat Wrote: *large quote removed*

Burst Classic is a limited format scaled to the power level of older beyblades, sure. That might have something to do with the fact that it is a Format “dedicated to old Single & Dual Layer System parts which can no longer fit in the metagame”. I understand that it is an issue of availability, but if you are playing a mode literally called “Burst Classic”, you really should bring the older Beyblades. This is not a Burst Limited Format.

There is a reason the Ban List doesn’t include the stronger recent beyblades and allow newer beyblades. It is because this is a Format specifically for the Single and Dual Layer Beyblades to compete for a meta that isn’t bland and restricted. Adding in new beyblades that not only go against the purpose of the format but also barely compete just for the sake of adding new beyblades isn’t a great decision, logically speaking.
Dude, he literally created this format partially so turbo has a place to shine. And yes, it is another limited format. Trust me, wombat is a creator of the format, he knows what his own format is and it is not up to you to decide what his own format is.
(Oct. 06, 2019  5:18 AM)Dt20000 Wrote:
(Oct. 06, 2019  2:59 AM)Wombat Wrote: *large quote removed*

....if you are playing a mode literally called “Burst Classic”, you really should bring the 

Does “classic” mean “old?”  There seems to be the notion that if a format is called “classic” then it has to be “old,” and yet we accept new drivers  to be added readily. In the past, beys bursted a lot...  Adding dash drivers changed things a lot and I think for the better. 

I don’t have a beyblade example since I don’t know of any other beyblade format named “classic.”  But I think you will find the newest technology and sports science being applied to tournaments call “Honda Classic” and “NHL winter classic”.  Not a beyblade example, but does “classic” mean “old” at all?
Saying it’s going to be “confusing” if the turbo layers are unbanned is such a bad reason to keep them banned. And if the name “burst classic” is the reason it’s confusing then burst classic should be renamed, simple as that cause accessibility to beys that are legal is what a tournament format needs to thrive.
I'm cool if weaker God layers are unbanned as well. Personally, I'd rather just play with single/dual layers but that's just me.
(Oct. 06, 2019  11:59 PM)BoogietheBlader Wrote: I'm cool if weaker God layers are unbanned as well. Personally, I'd rather just play with single/dual layers but that's just me.
Yeah, that's the beauty of this whole thing. You will still be able to use dual layers and single layers and still do well, it just adds extra options to it.
Sorry for possibly sounding like a broken record but, I am in support of adding in Slingshock layers, as it's mostly just support for Hasbro only players and adding alternatives, maybe even a couple of the non-exclusives too like Wonder Valtryek V4 after both controlled testing and trial in tournaments.
(Oct. 07, 2019  9:40 AM)RacingCheetahz Wrote: Sorry for possibly sounding like a broken record but, I am in support of adding in Slingshock layers, as it's mostly just support for Hasbro only players and adding alternatives, maybe even a couple of the non-exclusives too like Wonder Valtryek V4 after both controlled testing and trial in tournaments.
Yeah, that's what I said as well. I think we should allow V4, A4, and maybe F4.
Whoa. Don't scope creep this now. Let's focus on the 10 the thread is about for starters.
(Oct. 07, 2019  4:52 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Whoa. Don't scope creep this now. Let's focus on the 10 the thread is about for starters.
Well I mentioned getting them unbanned too if you read my original post. They are the same deal as the turbo exclusives and killing two stones with one bird is what I want to do with this.
Anyone wanna start testing to see which normal Turbo layers should be allowed?
(Oct. 07, 2019  9:28 PM)bladekid Wrote:
(Oct. 07, 2019  4:52 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Whoa. Don't scope creep this now. Let's focus on the 10 the thread is about for starters.
Well I mentioned getting them unbanned too if you read my original post. They are the same deal as the turbo exclusives and killing two stones with one bird is what I want to do with this.

You mentioned it briefly in the OP, but you only tested the Turbo exclusives. If you're going to scope creep this, like you're doing, I'm steering clear of it. I'm down for testing the Hasbro Turbo exclusives, like it says in the thread title, but I'm not even remotely interested in the idea of allowing nerfed, metal-less versions of ChoZ layers into a format that doesn't even allow God layers. Plus, you haven't tested those at all, while you did start testing the 10 Turbo exclusives.

I think I'll skip running experimental tournaments allowing those 10 Turbo Exclusives; honestly, I'm happy with the Classic meta as it stands now, and I have exceedingly negative reactions to scope creep. Trying to get two birds with one stone is an idea that will require double the testing and cause double the arguments and cause half or none of it to get accomplished. Next time start with something small, identify the goals clearly in your plan, and put forward a large collaborative testing and experimental tournament plan, instead of causing a bunch of arguments.
(Oct. 07, 2019  11:22 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote:
(Oct. 07, 2019  9:28 PM)bladekid Wrote: Well I mentioned getting them unbanned too if you read my original post. They are the same deal as the turbo exclusives and killing two stones with one bird is what I want to do with this.

You mentioned it briefly in the OP, but you only tested the Turbo exclusives. If you're going to scope creep this, like you're doing, I'm steering clear of it. I'm down for testing the Hasbro Turbo exclusives, like it says in the thread title, but I'm not even remotely interested in the idea of allowing nerfed, metal-less versions of ChoZ layers into a format that doesn't even allow God layers. Plus, you haven't tested those at all, while you did start testing the 10 Turbo exclusives.

I think I'll skip running experimental tournaments allowing those 10 Turbo Exclusives; honestly, I'm happy with the Classic meta as it stands now, and I have exceedingly negative reactions to scope creep. Trying to get two birds with one stone is an idea that will require double the testing and cause double the arguments and cause half or none of it to get accomplished. Next time start with something small, identify the goals clearly in your plan, and put forward a large collaborative testing and experimental tournament plan, instead of causing a bunch of arguments.
I don't really need to test these beys, I'm going to be doing it soon, but not right now. The reason I don't is that KJ already tested these beys. Plus, besides KJ, there is really no one else willing to test these hasbro exclusives, unless you want to test them. As a credible tester, I think that this is at least enough to backup my point. Waiting for someone on the committee to buy and test all of these is like waiting for time to stop passing.
(Oct. 08, 2019  1:24 PM)bladekid Wrote:
(Oct. 07, 2019  11:22 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: You mentioned it briefly in the OP, but you only tested the Turbo exclusives. If you're going to scope creep this, like you're doing, I'm steering clear of it. I'm down for testing the Hasbro Turbo exclusives, like it says in the thread title, but I'm not even remotely interested in the idea of allowing nerfed, metal-less versions of ChoZ layers into a format that doesn't even allow God layers. Plus, you haven't tested those at all, while you did start testing the 10 Turbo exclusives.

I think I'll skip running experimental tournaments allowing those 10 Turbo Exclusives; honestly, I'm happy with the Classic meta as it stands now, and I have exceedingly negative reactions to scope creep. Trying to get two birds with one stone is an idea that will require double the testing and cause double the arguments and cause half or none of it to get accomplished. Next time start with something small, identify the goals clearly in your plan, and put forward a large collaborative testing and experimental tournament plan, instead of causing a bunch of arguments.
I don't really need to test these beys, I'm going to be doing it soon, but not right now. The reason I don't is that KJ already tested these beys. Plus, besides KJ, there is really no one else willing to test these hasbro exclusives, unless you want to test them. As a credible tester, I think that this is at least enough to backup my point. Waiting for someone on the committee to buy and test all of these is like waiting for time to stop passing.

I have Kraken, Ogre, and Balar, so I could do some testing with those three, and I’m planning to try to host a tournament where all the hasbro exclusive layers are unbanned, so everyone can see their effects firsthand.