(Nov. 18, 2019 3:01 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:I think Orbit still produces too much friction.(Nov. 18, 2019 2:56 PM)Dracieleone Wrote: Istros is a decent defense layer when used with a good free-spinning driver. Since Atomic is banned, Hold is pretty much the only option.
You also have Orbit, atomic’s predecessor.
[Hasbro] Burst Classic Testing and Discussion
(Nov. 18, 2019 2:56 PM)Dracieleone Wrote:It's not a good defense layer though and hold isn't good for defence. Also, orbit is most like At when it comes to that, not hold. Also what are you testing this combo against.(Nov. 18, 2019 4:37 AM)bladekid Wrote: That is a hell to the no. Bad stamina and defence.
Istros is a decent defense layer when used with a good free-spinning driver. Since Atomic is banned, Hold is pretty much the only option.
(Nov. 18, 2019 3:14 PM)bladekid Wrote:(Nov. 18, 2019 2:56 PM)Dracieleone Wrote: Istros is a decent defense layer when used with a good free-spinning driver. Since Atomic is banned, Hold is pretty much the only option.It's not a good defense layer though and hold isn't good for defence. Also, orbit is most like At when it comes to that, not hold. Also what are you testing this combo against.
R.C.E., the Istros combo was I2.L.At., and I managed to have consistent wins with it; winning 8 out of 10 with 2 draws.
(Nov. 18, 2019 3:16 PM)Dracieleone Wrote:Not only is At banned, but R.C.E is probably the worst combo I could see on R.(Nov. 18, 2019 3:14 PM)bladekid Wrote: It's not a good defense layer though and hold isn't good for defence. Also, orbit is most like At when it comes to that, not hold. Also what are you testing this combo against.
R.C.E., the Istros combo was I2.L.At., and I managed to have consistent wins with it; winning 8 out of 10 with 2 draws.
(Nov. 18, 2019 5:22 PM)bladekid Wrote:(Nov. 18, 2019 3:16 PM)Dracieleone Wrote: R.C.E., the Istros combo was I2.L.At., and I managed to have consistent wins with it; winning 8 out of 10 with 2 draws.Not only is At banned, but R.C.E is probably the worst combo I could see on R.
What would recommend then?
(Nov. 18, 2019 5:34 PM)Dracieleone Wrote:Honestly, just R stock is probably the best if not one of the best. R.H.S is really good even though I can't really get it to work.(Nov. 18, 2019 5:22 PM)bladekid Wrote: Not only is At banned, but R.C.E is probably the worst combo I could see on R.
What would recommend then?
I had done some previous Dragoon Fighter testing (click here if you're interested) and I wanted to try out a Driver I got recently to see if the matchup would differ.
Dragoon Fighter Polish Absorb-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Odd Weak) vs. Kerbeus Yell Revolve (Even Weak)
- DGF.P.Ab-S: 5 OS (50% Win Rate)
- K.Y.R: 5 OS (50% Win Rate)
Unlike previous Drivers I used on Dragoon Fighter (those being Xtend-S (Battle Ring Mode), Destroy, and Yard-S (Battle Ring Mode)), Absorb-S (Battle Ring Mode) actually helped DGF get wins against Kerbeus. There were also lots of ties as well.
Dragoon Fighter Polish Absorb-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Odd Weak) vs. Kerbeus Yell Revolve (Even Weak)
Spoiler (Click to View)
- K.Y.R: 5 OS (50% Win Rate)
Unlike previous Drivers I used on Dragoon Fighter (those being Xtend-S (Battle Ring Mode), Destroy, and Yard-S (Battle Ring Mode)), Absorb-S (Battle Ring Mode) actually helped DGF get wins against Kerbeus. There were also lots of ties as well.
(Nov. 19, 2019 2:45 AM)kjrules17 Wrote: I had done some previous Dragoon Fighter testing (click here if you're interested) and I wanted to try out a Driver I got recently to see if the matchup would differ.Ok, I personally think that DGF.Y.Et-S is better, but that's just me, maybe it's not.
Dragoon Fighter Polish Absorb-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Odd Weak) vs. Kerbeus Yell Revolve (Even Weak)
- DGF.P.Ab-S: 5 OS (50% Win Rate)Spoiler (Click to View)
- K.Y.R: 5 OS (50% Win Rate)
Unlike previous Drivers I used on Dragoon Fighter (those being Xtend-S (Battle Ring Mode), Destroy, and Yard-S (Battle Ring Mode)), Absorb-S (Battle Ring Mode) actually helped DGF get wins against Kerbeus. There were also lots of ties as well.
(Nov. 19, 2019 4:53 AM)kjrules17 Wrote:Yeah, I just feel like polish is too light to be properly used with DGF since it's shape and weight make it worse than other layers by default, but I could be wrong there.(Nov. 19, 2019 4:33 AM)bladekid Wrote: Ok, I personally think that DGF.Y.Et-S is better, but that's just me, maybe it's not.That's good to know, I'll try testing that too when I get a chance, thanks.
Alright, I tried out Dragoon Fighter Yell Eternal-S against Kerbeus Yell Revolve.
Dragoon Fighter Yell Eternal-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Odd Weak) vs. Kerbeus Yell Revolve (Even Weak)
- DGF.Y.Et-S: 2 OS (20% Win Rate)
- K.Y.R: 8 OS (80% Win Rate)
While it can also get wins against K.Y.R, it seemed to do better on Absorb-S.
I also wanted to try out DGF on some other Drivers as well to see if they could perform better than Absorb-S as well as get more data to compare Polish and Yell on DGF against K.Y.R.
Dragoon Fighter Yell Eternal-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Odd Weak) vs. Kerbeus Yell Revolve (Even Weak)
Spoiler (Click to View)
- K.Y.R: 8 OS (80% Win Rate)
While it can also get wins against K.Y.R, it seemed to do better on Absorb-S.
I also wanted to try out DGF on some other Drivers as well to see if they could perform better than Absorb-S as well as get more data to compare Polish and Yell on DGF against K.Y.R.
Tests (Click to View)
Final Thoughts (Click to View)
Did some more Dragoon Fighter testing to see if I could find any other combos that might be better than Yell Absorb-S. But it winded up turning into something else lol.
Tests (Click to View)
Final Thoughts (Click to View)
Due to Hello321 placing in some of the Maryland Burst Classic tournaments recently with Liner or Liner-S (not 100% sure which one), I decided to do some tests just to see how they compare to some of the other Hasbro Drivers that may be used in Burst Classic (Orbit, Revolve, Eternal-S, and Yard-S). I also tested Liner against Liner-S at the end of the tests just to see how they fare against each other.
For these tests, I'm using the red Liner from the Betromoth B2 Single Pack as well as the red Liner-S from the Master Set. Both are super tight, but other Liner and Liner-S Drivers felt pretty tight to me too.
Here are some other things I've observed as well. Liner-S seems to be heavier and a little taller than Liner, which probably played a role in the outcome of its matchups.
But now, let's get into the tests.
For these tests, I'm using the red Liner from the Betromoth B2 Single Pack as well as the red Liner-S from the Master Set. Both are super tight, but other Liner and Liner-S Drivers felt pretty tight to me too.
Here are some other things I've observed as well. Liner-S seems to be heavier and a little taller than Liner, which probably played a role in the outcome of its matchups.
But now, let's get into the tests.
Tests (Click to View)
Final Thoughts (Click to View)
So not too long ago, I had tested Liner and Liner-S against some Drivers used in Burst Classic.
I then decided to expand upon that and test some specific combos and stuff.
Something I wanted to try out was Caynox, as I wanted to see if the tightness of Liner-S could perhaps help in lowering the likelihood of Caynox being Burst in battle, which could help put its sharp contact points to good use.
In addition to Caynox, I also tried out Dranzer Flame and Unicrest, 2 Hasbro Layers with pretty decent Stamina in Burst Classic, on Liner-S.
I tested these Liner-S combos against Yegdrion Heavy Yard-S, a combo that's been used several times in Burst Classic tournaments, as well as (Hasbro Exclusive) Orpheus O2 Down Yard-S, a combo used by bladekid, UltimateMaster, and maybe others too at the Burst Classic tournament in Los Angeles a while back. It seems to be a more Burst Resistant version of the Yegdrion combo and it can also Destabilize stuff as well.
I then decided to expand upon that and test some specific combos and stuff.
Something I wanted to try out was Caynox, as I wanted to see if the tightness of Liner-S could perhaps help in lowering the likelihood of Caynox being Burst in battle, which could help put its sharp contact points to good use.
In addition to Caynox, I also tried out Dranzer Flame and Unicrest, 2 Hasbro Layers with pretty decent Stamina in Burst Classic, on Liner-S.
I tested these Liner-S combos against Yegdrion Heavy Yard-S, a combo that's been used several times in Burst Classic tournaments, as well as (Hasbro Exclusive) Orpheus O2 Down Yard-S, a combo used by bladekid, UltimateMaster, and maybe others too at the Burst Classic tournament in Los Angeles a while back. It seems to be a more Burst Resistant version of the Yegdrion combo and it can also Destabilize stuff as well.
Tests (Click to View)
Final Results (Click to View)
Something I talked about with others is the comparison of Polish and Yell in Burst Classic. For Takara Tomy's Dragoon Fantom, I see Polish used more on things like Absorb. But for Hasbro's Dragoon Fighter, recent combos using it have used Yell, like on Absorb-S or Eternal-S for example. Earlier in this thread, I compared Polish and Yell on a variety of Dragoon Fighter setups against Kerbeus Yell Revolve. Some recent discussion on Discord about Polish and Yell on Dragoon Fantom with Destroy made me think about the Polish vs. Yell comparison again. I hadn't tested Yell Destroy for Dragoon Fighter but I had done so with Polish Destroy in the past so I wanted to compare the two.
Previous Test With Polish (Click to View)
New Test With Yell (Click to View)
Thoughts (Click to View)
Tests (Click to View)
Final Thoughts (Click to View)
Is Spread viable in classic? I think it's good. Could you do some testing against Polish and Yell?
I haven't seen Spread used much in Classic compared to things like Gravity, Heavy, Knuckle, Polish, Yell, Armed, Down, etc. And I've also heard it's worse than Yell in Opposite Spin so idk lol.
(Jun. 07, 2020 12:43 AM)kjrules17 Wrote: I haven't seen Spread used much in Classic compared to things like Gravity, Heavy, Knuckle, Polish, Yell, Armed, Down, etc. And I've also heard it's worse than Yell in Opposite Spin so idk lol.It's good, just kinda outclassed. But I'm the type who uses down on everything so weird niche disks like spread can still work and will work.
Wanted to try Tower-S on Caynox to see how it compared to Liner-S from testing earlier in this thread.
Yegdrion Heavy Yard-S (Battle Ring Mode) (First) vs. Caynox Knuckle Tower-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Second)
- Y.H.Yr-S: 4 OS, 1 Burst (50% Win Rate)
- C.K.Tw-S: 5 Burst (50% Win Rate)
Not as many Bursts compared to Caynox on Liner-S but good to know. I used the blue Tower-S from Dullahan D4, it's pretty tight. Tower-S in Battle Ring Mode doesn't seem to hold a flower pattern well. When flat launched, it may stall for a bit before coming to the center.
Yegdrion Heavy Yard-S (Battle Ring Mode) (First) vs. Caynox Knuckle Tower-S (Battle Ring Mode) (Second)
Spoiler (Click to View)
- C.K.Tw-S: 5 Burst (50% Win Rate)
Not as many Bursts compared to Caynox on Liner-S but good to know. I used the blue Tower-S from Dullahan D4, it's pretty tight. Tower-S in Battle Ring Mode doesn't seem to hold a flower pattern well. When flat launched, it may stall for a bit before coming to the center.
This is just some testing for Tyros T2. I'm also putting this in the Tyros T2 testing and discussion thread so people looking for specifically T2 can find it. Enjoy the tests!
Test 1: (T2 med launched, X sliding shot)
T2.H.U VS X.H.X
T2 Winrate: 80% (OS:7, KO:0, B:9)
X1 Winrate: 20% (OS:0, KO:4, B:0)
Ties: 2 (2 B)
Test 2: (T2 med launched, V2 sliding shot)
T2.H.U VS V2.K.X
T2 Winrate: 90% (OS:10, KO:0, B:8)
V2 Winrate: 10% (OS:0, KO:2, B:0)
Ties: 6 (6 B)
Test 3:
T2.D.Yr-S VS R.H.S
T2 Winrate: 65% (OS:12, KO:0, B:1)
R1 Winrate: 35% (OS:6, KO:0, B:1)
Ties: 0 (0 B)
Test 4a: (T2 med launched, S2 sliding shot, 10 battles)
T2.G.D-S VS S2.G.Ir
T2 Winrate: 100% (OS:2, KO:1, B:7)
S2 Winrate: 0% (OS:0, KO:0, B:0)
Ties: 1 (1 B)
Test 4b: (T2 hard we launched, S2 hard flat launched, 10 battles)
T2.G.D-S VS S2.G.Ir
T2 Winrate: 60% (OS:6, KO:0, B:2)
S2 Winrate: 20% (OS:2, KO:0, B:0)
Ties: 0 (0 B)
Here are some G2 tests to compare:
Test 5: (X sliding shot)
G2.H.U VS X.H.X
G2 Winrate: 80% (OS:4, KO:1, B:11)
X1 Winrate: 20% (OS:0, KO:4, B:0)
Ties: 0 (0 B)
Test 1: (T2 med launched, X sliding shot)
T2.H.U VS X.H.X
T2 Winrate: 80% (OS:7, KO:0, B:9)
X1 Winrate: 20% (OS:0, KO:4, B:0)
Ties: 2 (2 B)
Test 2: (T2 med launched, V2 sliding shot)
T2.H.U VS V2.K.X
T2 Winrate: 90% (OS:10, KO:0, B:8)
V2 Winrate: 10% (OS:0, KO:2, B:0)
Ties: 6 (6 B)
Test 3:
T2.D.Yr-S VS R.H.S
T2 Winrate: 65% (OS:12, KO:0, B:1)
R1 Winrate: 35% (OS:6, KO:0, B:1)
Ties: 0 (0 B)
Test 4a: (T2 med launched, S2 sliding shot, 10 battles)
T2.G.D-S VS S2.G.Ir
T2 Winrate: 100% (OS:2, KO:1, B:7)
S2 Winrate: 0% (OS:0, KO:0, B:0)
Ties: 1 (1 B)
Test 4b: (T2 hard we launched, S2 hard flat launched, 10 battles)
T2.G.D-S VS S2.G.Ir
T2 Winrate: 60% (OS:6, KO:0, B:2)
S2 Winrate: 20% (OS:2, KO:0, B:0)
Ties: 0 (0 B)
Here are some G2 tests to compare:
Test 5: (X sliding shot)
G2.H.U VS X.H.X
G2 Winrate: 80% (OS:4, KO:1, B:11)
X1 Winrate: 20% (OS:0, KO:4, B:0)
Ties: 0 (0 B)
Hi, so I was curious about the down VS armed disk comparison, but I was wondering how Vertical fit into all this, so I tested it for both stamina and burst defense compared to down, here are the tests:
Test 1:
A2.D.O VS A2.V.O (alternating launches, ties, redone switched disks halfway, 20 battles)
D Win rate: 15% (OS: 3, KO: 0, BST: 0)
V Win rate: 85% (OS: 15, KO: 0, BST: 2)
Ties: 2
Test 2:
A2.V.O VS R.H.S (ties redone, A2 launched first, 20 battles)
A2 Win rate: 50% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
R1 Win rate: 50% (OS: 1, KO: 0, BST: 9)
Ties: 0
Test 3:
A2.D.O VS R.H.S (ties redone, A2 launched first, 20 battles)
A2 Win rate: 20% (OS: 4, KO: 0, BST: 0)
R1 Win rate: 80% (OS: 3, KO: 1, BST: 12)
Ties: 5
I was very surprised to be perfectly honest, maybe my verticals are weird, but even when just loosely testing my other vertical disks it had a similar experience. Sometime I'll test vertical and down against things like Knuckle and heavy to get a feel for stamina. But yeah, something I noticed was that down kept getting destablized against vertical, and vertical barely got destabilized at all, so maybe it has a use as an anti destabilizer. That's why I was originally using down for but it appears I was mistaken. Alright, thanks for reading and let me know if you got the same results if you tested it! Thanks.
Test 1:
A2.D.O VS A2.V.O (alternating launches, ties, redone switched disks halfway, 20 battles)
D Win rate: 15% (OS: 3, KO: 0, BST: 0)
V Win rate: 85% (OS: 15, KO: 0, BST: 2)
Ties: 2
Test 2:
A2.V.O VS R.H.S (ties redone, A2 launched first, 20 battles)
A2 Win rate: 50% (OS: 10, KO: 0, BST: 0)
R1 Win rate: 50% (OS: 1, KO: 0, BST: 9)
Ties: 0
Test 3:
A2.D.O VS R.H.S (ties redone, A2 launched first, 20 battles)
A2 Win rate: 20% (OS: 4, KO: 0, BST: 0)
R1 Win rate: 80% (OS: 3, KO: 1, BST: 12)
Ties: 5
I was very surprised to be perfectly honest, maybe my verticals are weird, but even when just loosely testing my other vertical disks it had a similar experience. Sometime I'll test vertical and down against things like Knuckle and heavy to get a feel for stamina. But yeah, something I noticed was that down kept getting destablized against vertical, and vertical barely got destabilized at all, so maybe it has a use as an anti destabilizer. That's why I was originally using down for but it appears I was mistaken. Alright, thanks for reading and let me know if you got the same results if you tested it! Thanks.
Bringing this thread back from the dead - I have been testing a few God era layers (TT/Hasbro) lately to see how they fit in classic. I will have more coming in future, but here are a couple early ones of Valkyries.
Victory Valkyrie/Shining God Valkyrye Knuckle Xtreme' (red rubber)/Wonder Valtryek V4 Knuckle Hunter-S vs Driger S Heavy Orbit
B09, Driger launched first. Sparking string launchers used. NOTE: sgV is missing its springs. This should have a minimal effect on its performance, but must be kept in mind.
V2 - 7W (3ko 4b) 3L (all OS)
sgV - 6W (5ko 1b) 4L (all OS)
Note: Pretty similar, feels like it has a little less smash but also doesn't burst opponents nearly enough.
wV4 - 7W (4ko 3b) 3L (2os 1b)
Has more raw smash than TT V2, with higher burst risk. Less smash than Ogre (which is way too bursty sadly), probably also fine.
I think all of these honestly fit fine tbh
Victory Valkyrie/Shining God Valkyrye Knuckle Xtreme' (red rubber)/Wonder Valtryek V4 Knuckle Hunter-S vs Driger S Heavy Orbit
B09, Driger launched first. Sparking string launchers used. NOTE: sgV is missing its springs. This should have a minimal effect on its performance, but must be kept in mind.
V2 - 7W (3ko 4b) 3L (all OS)
sgV - 6W (5ko 1b) 4L (all OS)
Note: Pretty similar, feels like it has a little less smash but also doesn't burst opponents nearly enough.
wV4 - 7W (4ko 3b) 3L (2os 1b)
Has more raw smash than TT V2, with higher burst risk. Less smash than Ogre (which is way too bursty sadly), probably also fine.
I think all of these honestly fit fine tbh
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)