HMS General Discussion

Okay, lots to reply to:
(Mar. 09, 2012  8:36 PM)GaHooleone Wrote: Who won? Haha, your time will come soon I'm sure. Smile

Advance Attacker won basically all of them. Got hit hard and ran out of spin twice but won by OS basically every time. Didn't seem to do so well against screw capricorne 90mf though.

(Mar. 09, 2012  10:50 PM)JBladerMS Wrote: @th!nk
A bearing-powered Meral Flat is one of the parts I'd like to see, as well as Bearing Metal Change and a reversible Circle/Samurai Upper. Those parts might overpower the metagame, though.

Dude! You need an emergency launcher delivered to you by the U.S airforce! XD Seriously, I bet shipping is a pain where you live (Australia, if I'm not mistaken). It makes me feel guilty that I have like 20 launchers lying around in my shoebox, most of which I have never used.

I have four launchers coming, from two draciel MS and two Gaia Dragoon MS (one pair is coming with the sonokong hms grip), The first should hopefully be here in a couple of days, don't worry Tongue_out

(Mar. 09, 2012  11:56 PM)Dan Wrote: A bearing metal flat? I'm not sure it'd be too effective but meh.

What do you mean by 'reversible' Circle/Samurai Upper?

I think the fact that he hasn't gone out and looked for one is more of a problem than living in 'straya.
Now that I think of it, I think I'll alleviate him of that when I send Zinrai..

Bro, Mc Frown's weird plastic combo is so beastly because of the bearing-supported metal flat. The HMS Version would use Advance Striker and Circle Wide (15g).

Anyway, pretty sure the reversible circle upper stuff would just be advance striker, even if its a bit small.

As I said above, DW about the launcher, draciel MS should get here real soon now, monday hopefully (or I may die).

jan: Yeah, I've only got a mold 1 and I can see the rattling thing but its just the way they go together that I love. I have two mold 3's coming in slash riger and jiraiya ms.

I do stress about the breakage of the RC tabs though :C

Honestly, any non-attack MFB would lose to zombies from previous generations until one release: B: D has put an end to that (as long as you use something like phantom), for plastics at least, from what I've tried. Spiral Change Base can't OS it, so IDK about HMS zombies, but yeah. My B: D only gets about 5 minutes solo, too. I actually really want to find out how HMS does, haha. Of course, MFB attack, with its overwhelming weight and stuff seems to basically clear out every previous generation.
Draciel MS Arrived! I Have A Launcher!!!
BUT The ripcord was broken :c they threw in an extra but the extra is TT hongli :C

Still, I guess it'll do for now :\ Hopefully my Gaia Dragoon's won't be the same.
Why did you buy Gaia Dragoon at all?

Yeah I know, and I'll have two of them because of that sonokong set. I didn't do the WD math right and thought I'd need more circle heavies. Most of the beys I have coming, it turns out, have circle heavy, sooo.... I should have got driger instead I know :c

Still, the launcher is neat in how it works. I want a real ripcord before I make my mind up on the feel but I'm still adjusting to it.

Also, 15g circle wide+metal flat RC+new to HMS=control and scraping issues :o
The launchers I got with my set were both really perfect ones, they feel great. Good resistance, no excess forward leap, really firm launch.

I still have trouble sticking my Beyblades on the launcher, but 100% because I am just not used to the smaller connection points.
The launcher itself is pretty good, this is just from a single Draciel MS I bought, my first HMS purchase.

The launch does feel really solid, moreso than any other launcher I've used, but I still like the lighter feel of plastic launchers at the moment, because I'm so very accustomed to them.

I'm not currently sold on metal flat core being a top tier part, by the way, it's awkward to control (I guess I need more practice but I'm pretty used to very similar tips from plastics and MFB) and has a hard time handling hits from rebounding opponents. I really don't see why you'd use it over GFC, and I kinda see why it was considered a second-tier part whilst Metal Change Core was considered a Must-Have, in a list I was reading from an older thread...

Still, it is probably just me needing practice.

Also, I love the little case and the cassette-like design (some nostalgia there), though the fact you have to apply stickers to it is hilarious. Also it took me like 5 minutes to get the RC out.
I really wish my DEMS had been starters instead of boosters, so I'd have the cool casette things for them, but they weren't. Most of my "to buy" HMS now are just little things for looks, like Dranzer MS, a spare Sea Drake(which has earned an equal spot in my heart alongside DEMS), etc.
My to buy list contains expensive stuff I can't justify purchasing/find, as well as a few other things like Advance Eterner, Dark Leopard, a Metal Change Core or whole DEMS (I have a mold 2 Circle Upper coming). Also Driger MS because yeah Driger.
I'm not sure why metal change isn't considered competitive, honestly - if metal flat is "that much better", I can't imagine what it's like.

Metal Change Core is genuinely enjoyable to play with - great Stamina when you need/want it(although it gets knocked around easily), and pretty impressive speed, with a lot more controllability than I imagine Metal Flat Core has.
Well, as I said, Metal Flat Core was always considered a Tier 2 part, whilst Metal Change was Tier 1.

It's supposed to be about the same speed as Metal Flat Core, and while I can understand perhaps not being top tier for smash attack, I'd like to see some comparatives of Upper Attack combos with each RC. If Metal Change Core is "the best implementation of [the metal change concept]" as beywiki states, then I'd imagine it would be a heck of a lot more controllable than metal flat.

That said, I really want to work on my launch before I dig myself a hole here.
The metal change-type tips(SG, Core, and a semi-aggro CS, basically) are all great, but speaking as someone heavily experience with all of them, I can definitely confirm that Metal Change Core is the easiest to use, the easiest to manipulate, the most still when launched straight, and the most aggressive when launched aggressively.

Its counter-attacking patterns are also much tighter than SG Metal Change, so it's much better at an appropriate counterattack with a better chance of actually making contact.
Sounds good. I'm still struggling with Metal Flat Core, it behaves almost the same as XF, honestly, so it's kinda awkward. I can't really think of any situation I'd rather have that than a grip tip unless there's something that a grip tip can't KO and Metal Flat Core can outspin :\ That said, at the same time, I'd probably use grip more than I would metal change, too. But theeeen, Metal Change Core is going to OS a lot more than Metal Flat Core, sooo...

Also, I didn't realise the dual shooter used a spring to push beyblades down on release, like the old spring shooters did. I guess this might be to prevent people used to launching plastics vaulting them at each other but I think that is what I'm trying to adapt to.
So I have a proper HMS ripcord now. It's like a hot knife through butter, and I'm sure in time I'll come to appreciate the lack of breakage over the fact I actually prefer the feel of plastics launchers (so accustomed to them).

Anyway, Metal Flat Core: There is no way this is a top tier part. I now have mold 2 circle upper, and you can see it struggling to compensate for the terrible RC. It has no recoil handling, so after hits it just stops and then has to restart, it flies backwards out of BB-10 if used against a defense type (tornado attack is the best stadium for HMS IMO btw). Interested to see metal change core when I get one, but man, if it's true that the HMS rubber RC's are so controllable, there is literally no reason to use Metal Flat Core, at least not in TA/BB-10. Circle Upper only seems to need one decent hit to KO something, Metal Flat's stamina therefore means nothing and as a tradeoff you lose most hope of getting a good solid hit. Really disappointed.

Also, Advance Striker vs Circle Upper: No contest. Against a left spin opponent, I still find Right Spin Circle Upper more effective from the small amount of work I've done lol. It's a cool force smash part tho. If you want an Attack AR that doesn't care about the opponents spin direction at all, use Smash Attack instead of Upper. Jiraiya Blade isn't Circle Upper, at least on metal flat, but it's still an awesome AR.

So yeah, Advance Attacker is pretty overrated as a whole right now, though I need more to compare it to.
How do you prefer Plastic STILL. Serious

Rubber RC's were definitely controllable, but Metal Flat Core could be used just like the Plastics one. The stamina is useful when facing strong enough defense types or pure smash-attack defense types (see Rubber Weight Core).

I've always liked Advance Attacker as a whole for Force Smash, but it served a purpose like Dranzer GT. It could hit stuff with Upper in left-spin, which is always useful. It's true that Samurai Upper and Circle Upper are hard to beat, but Advance Attacker is useful for those dual spin capabilities.
Unlike partners, having the same launcher for 10 years only makes things more comfortable.

No, believe me, I can control metal flat tips in plastics. I can even do pretty well with MF. Metal Flat Core: Launch -> 2 Hits >Tornado Stall or Self KO.


If you want to be effective against both spin directions, use smash, Jiraiya Blade is more effective than Advance Striker from what I've tried.

As for Defense Types, I guess I need to try more with better parts, seeing as my defense type currently is more of a pretty average zombie on BC2 (Metal Saucer/15g Circle Wide/BC2). But yeah, I guess it has a place outspinning them, but it's a huge tradeoff and I agree with the original judgement of Metal Flat Core as Tier 2. Metal Change is supposed to be very manipulable, and I'd like to see how that goes as a replacement. It's the next thing on my list of stuff to buy.
The HMS launcher is the best. Overruled!
Serious Serious Serious

There is definitely a reason why Metal Flat Core isn't tier 1. In the aggressive metagame of HMS, having more survival with the trade-off of decreased grip, speed, and controllability just isn't worth it. I mostly like using it for fun with Jiraiya Blade and circle wide/heavy.

Advance attacker is a really enjoyable part; it has a good mixture of smash and upper attack, plus versatility. It is notably weaker than Samurai Upper (in Right-spin), however. I don't think it's all that overrated, personally.
The HMS Ripcord is the best, but I prefer retracting launchers to ripcords.

I need to look at the tooth numbers for the launchers themselves, will do it when I oil up my new launcher, but Plastics Launchers are stronger than MFB launchers, even the string launcher, by a small margin.

But the main reason i dislike the HMS launcher is the spring that pushes the beyblade down. Sure, it's a very elegant design, but there's a reason the EZ Spring Launcher or whatever wasn't useful in plastics. If you want to push a beyblade down on launch, just coordinate your hands better.

I find Jiraiya Blade and MF Core work best with a CWD (just using Jiraiya's as it's all I have), to be honest. Perhaps we should discuss this on the competitive combos thread? Do you have any comparisons with metal change core?

I just find that it's not as good as Jiraiya Blade, so there's little reason to use it, as Jiraiya Blade is effective no matter what spin direction your opponent chooses and works on similar parts.
I think we are fine just using this thread.

You're right about Jiraiya Blade. For pure smash, just use that instead. I use it with a CWD too, for more competitive play. For fun or looks, I use Circle Wide or Circle Heavy. Unfortunately, I don't have Metal Change (*sobs) so I do not have personal experience with it. However, I can easily imagine it being much easier to control, switching from attack to survival when Sliding Shoot is utilized. Also, when carp from my stadium gets on my Metal Flat, it acts similarly LOL.

Btw You can beef up your defense combo by using Advance Balancer or Samurai upper. A CWD and Defense ring will help tons too.
My main reasoning was that seeing as Metal Flat Core is listed there as top tier, perhaps more discussion is needed to get that some... attention.

I've got all of those coming, though Balancer will be used on my zombie, I can probably get a second if I need one, but I'll probably go for something heavier. Samurai Upper will be on my attacker, but Circle Upper is still pretty heavy anyway, and has less protrusions. As for the CWD, well, I've only got one coming and again it'll probably end up on an attacker (I do prefer attack types overall), but we'll see. Defense isn't hugely useful in HMS from what I've heard anyway.
Metal Flat is considered "top-tier" because of it's short size and fast movement, most likely. I don't think controllability is fully considered. Beywiki merely says to use Sliding Shoot.

It truly stinks to be a defensive HMS blader. Even the best defensive combos tend to be tossed around when against a grip-based attacker.

I wonder how Advance Balancer will perform on Metal Flat...improved GaiaDragoonMS, anyone? Haha.
Also, something else interesting. Did some solo spins of MAMS's Gyro Mode with an NSK bearing up top (because I forgot to put the normal one back in after some testing I was doing, and tbh, I don't get why it's illegal haha).

Anyway, I have three beys with AR's that work with it, Draciel MS, Magical Ape MS and Jiraiya MS. All testing was done in right spin with a Master Draciel AR on top. Just one round each but the differences are... quite large.

Draciel MS AR: 0:57:40
Metal Ape: 1:14:20
Jiraiya Blade: 1:42:07

Yeah, almost 30 seconds more for jiaraiya blade over metal ape, and draciel MS, which has the most external distribution of the lot, was terrible.

Can't wait to get a WBMS AR and try, but if someone has the parts, could they reproduce these tests? I want to make sure that we were right about the best AR, given Jiraiya Blade is the highest RPM AR iirc, and did the best....
(Mar. 27, 2012  3:35 AM)JBladerMS Wrote: Metal Flat is considered "top-tier" because of it's short size and fast movement, most likely. I don't think controllability is fully considered. Beywiki merely says to use Sliding Shoot.

It truly stinks to be a defensive HMS blader. Even the best defensive combos tend to be tossed around when against a grip-based attacker.

I'm pretty decent with a sliding shoot, I can control basically any plastic tip, metal or rubber, to hit an opponent. Do the same thing with metal flat core: 2 hits, self KO or tornado stall. Speechless
Still no reason to use it over a rubber core. Plus, it's only since that list was written that it's been called tier 1, it's always been a tier 2 part (though Metal Change was Tier 1).

I don't even get using defense, then. Perhaps, though, we've overlooked stuff, seeing as we're just using BC2. There's still a lot of stuff that could be done with compacts and weight and so on, that's been mentioned on the wiki...
Metal Ape is the most compact, I believe. It should have the highest RPM.
There are two parts to that though, how compact the weight is, and how much weight it has. Jiraiya MS has significantly more weight and is only slightly larger, so it would probably maintain a high rpm for longer.

I also suspect high rpm may be the way to go with gyro mode because it's easier to spin the outer case with a higher rpm meaning better LAD and so on. Just a guess though.

Also just noticed you can put AR's and WD's on the other way up. Yay illegal :3

Anyway, I'll see if Ga can do some solo spins for us, though IIRC he doesn't have Jiraiya Blade some WBMS AR comparatives would be nice, seeing as he can put a ball bearing in place of the top one too.
I found that out ages ago, haha.

I've been thinking about a weight-size ratio to determine compactness. Any thoughts about it?
I like illegal mods that don't require permanent alteration :3

No thoughts, I suck at physics theory, only know what few things I remember and what I can work out on intuition and so forth. I'm good at basically every other academic subject, but physics just doesn't "stick".

Perhaps one of our more physics-inclined members might be able to help.

Speaking of compacts, though, I'm curious, unlike other types, they haven't seen any revival. They seemed to be quite popular though. Was this just carry over from plastics? I figure their high RPM's might be a good way to counter upper attack, what with it being the most common form of attack, so it's kinda odd to see them not spoken about here.

Also, metal flat core scrapes a lot for me, still, even in tornado attack, so I'm interested to see what the even lower grip cores do.

Oh, also, do you have a 17g cwd piece?