Semi-Aggro CS do better against Attackers than Calm ones, especially with an appropriate launch.

State what kind of launch you used with your CS, Relic.

I did a Straight Launch with CS.

And when it spins on the rubber after getting hit, it moves aggressively for about 2-3 seconds before becoming calm again.

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Ah, that would be why it lost. Straight launching a Semi-Aggro CS will do worse than Calm.

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Some manner of Octopus.

How so..?

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

Semi-Aggro does better with a Sliding Shoot for the same reason Anti-Meta works as Anti-Meta, silly goose.

Straight Shot it will waste more spin for less net gain than Calm.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Okay, here is the same testing with the Sliding Shoot.


MF-M Blitz Unicorno S130R2F V/S MF-H Duo Uranus BD145CS

•Standard Procedure.
•Sliding Shoot for Blitz and Duo.
•Duo Always launched first.
•20 rounds.

MF-M Blitz Unicorno S130R2F - 12/20 (12 KOs)
MF-H Duo Uranus BD145CS - 8/20 (8 OS)

Duo's win rate : 40 %


Not much of a difference even with the Sliding Shoot.

__________________________________________________________

As requested by Th!nk, here is a test I did for Duo with MB :

MF-M Blitz Unicorno S130R2F V/S MF-H Duo Uranus BD145MB

•Standard Procedure.
•Banking Shot for Blitz.
•Duo Always launched first.
•20 rounds.


MF-M Blitz Unicorno S130R2F - 10/20 (10 KOs)
MF-H Duo Uranus BD145MB - 10/20 (1 KO, 9 OS)

Duo's Win Rate : 50 %

I'll do tests with Vari soon.

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Guess I need to try Blitz on S130 then :\

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I recall Blitz doing well on S130 in several tests, but not as well as CH120...

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Some manner of Octopus.

I just weighed my Duo. It weighs 41.1 Grams. Maybe that could be the reason its not doing so good for Defense ?

Anyway, I'll post the results of the Stamina tests I did when I get some time. It did pretty well.

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Probably the exact reason: Duo is generally "just good enough" to hang in the arena, so being 1-2g lighter than normal is enough for it to be KO-able. I know mine is definitely more than that (turns out despite being only to the gram, my kitchen scales seem to be very accurate for what they are).

Explains a lot. Can't wait for stamina tests :3

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Some tests for Duo compared to other powerful defensive wheels:

Standard Procedure for all tests

BD145CS Comparative Results:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Wing Testing

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-M WingPegasusBD145CS (Ironclad Attack Mode) vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Wing Win = 75% (13 OS, 2 KO)
Beat Win = 25% (All KO)
Wing IMO held its ground the best out of the 4 wheels tested, it was like an iron wall, similar to how Duo has been described. Its large Circumference rendered BD145 mostly useless, it took every blow there was and still kept going.

Duo Testing

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-M DuoUranusBD145CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Duo Win = 75% (14 OS, 1 SKO)
Beat Win = 25% (All KO)

Ok, I underestimated Duo. When I was unofficially testing it, it performed poorly IMO compared to the hype it was getting. Surprised that Wing got the same results though, more testing needs to be done. Although, Duo seemed to dodge some the attacks that otherwise would have hit Wing due to its larger circumference.

Death Testing:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-M DeathQuezacotalBD145CS (Defence Mode) vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Death Win = 13 (11 OS, 1 SKO)
Beat Win = 7 (All KO)

Death performed a little less than I expected, but it seemed to OS the attacker by the most rotations out of all 4 wheels when it remained in. Death and BD145 work well together because Death is almost as wide as BD, but not so wide it extends its perimeter and Boost Disk covers Deaths weak spot, it's protrusions at the bottom of the Core.

Basalt Testing:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-M BasaltHorogiumBD145CS vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Basalt Win = 45% (All OS)
Beat Win = 55% (All KO)

Basalt held its ground, but Beat's constant attack pushed it to the edge and out of the stadium, only a few times did Beat get a KO from the centre of the ring, when it hit Basalt's Staircase.

Comparison to Wing Tests:
Defence Tests:
TH170CS Tests

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Duo Win = 75% (11 OS, 4 SKO)
Beat Win = 25% (All KO)

Duo's really low recoil was the main factor here, although having a small metal wheel aided in its ability to avoid Beat's attacks. Beat's only hope was to get a KO in the first few seconds of battle (which rarely happened) or just hope that it had enough force to nudge it out.

MF-L WingPegasusTH170CS (Ironclad Attack Mode) vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Wing = 75% (11 OS, 4 SKO)
Beat = 25% (All KO)

God, the results are identical! Wing defiantly has low recoil, but not as low as Duo. It makes up for that, however, in being slightly heavier. It seemed to be knocked around more (due to it's large circumference maybe? More surface area to hit?) but it held its ground well for its size.

230CS Tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranus230CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Duo Win = 40% (7 OS, 1 SKO)
LDrago Win = 60% (All KO)

MF-L WingPegasusIII230CS vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF
Wing Win = 25% (All OS)
LDrago Win = 75% (All KO)

I kinda expected this, on a tall height Wing's slightly worse balance really shows through. It's shape gave Lightning plenty of smash opportunities. Weather Duo extra balance and no recoil allowed it take the hits far better than Wing.

General Defence Tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L FangLeoneIIS130RF (Counter Mode)

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L FangLeoneIIS130RF (Counter Mode)
Duo Win = 80% (14 OS, 2 SKO)
Fang Win = 20% (All KO)

Fang barely managed to get the KO's it did. It kinda nudged Duo to the edge and tipped it out. Otherwise it just bounced off Duo and lost spin in a hopeless attempt to win.

MF-L DuoUranus230CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode) [Comparative to Basalt Counterpart Included]

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranus230CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Duo Win = 40% (7 OS, 1 SKO)
LDrago Win = 60% (All KO)

...um... I... Guess I should say that Duo was being tossed around like an angry child's toy. Lightning constantly destabilised, then KOed it. Often the battle was over within 5-7 seconds of the battle starting. It did seem to do ok though, when you put it in perspective... But I expected better from this defensive king...

MF-L BasaltUnicorn230CS vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Basalt Win = 35% (All OS)
LDrago Win = 65% (All KO)

Well, this shows that Basalt is no better than Duo at least. But I expected this one, I've seen the results from other users enough. And Basalt did seem to be getting lucky with the walls... A lot.

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Duo Win = 85% (5 SKO, 12 OS)
LDrago Win = 15% (All KO)

This is more what I would have expected. LDrago only KOed when it managed to put Duo off balance and smack it out, otherwise it just tapped Duo around the stadium.

General Stamina Tests:

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranus230D (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L WingPegasusIII230D (Ironclad Attack Mode)
Wing = 0% (N/a)
Duo = 100% (All OS)

Duo just outspun by a mile, if there is one combo where balance is shown its this, and Duo clearly has superior balance. No matter how hard Wing hit Duo, it took it all in stride. Wing may be equal to Duo in Defence, but in Stamina Duo trumps it. Wing can make up for a higher recoil with higher weight defence wise, but stamina wise it doesn't help.

MF-L DuoUranus230D (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L ScytheKronos230D (Stamina Mode)

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranus230D (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L ScytheKronos230D (Stamina Mode)
Duo Win = 85% (16 OS, 1 KO)
Scythe Win = 15% (All OS)

Duo was out spinning Scythe by a fair margin, often 7 seconds+. It even managed to get a fluke KO by knocking Scythe to the outer edge of the stadium and swinging around the tip it out. Scythe, however only out-spun by 1-4 seconds.

Could you guys please help with some testing? Maybe some stamina tests vs Phantom or some defence tests vs VariAres or Blitz (all of which I lack)

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

Hm, great tests!
Yes its surprising to see the comparative tests of Wing being completely identical; I am even the more surprised to see Beat go high on win rates against Basalt. Maybe it was underrated when I learnt about its characteristics...

Spoiler (Click to View)

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L BeatLynxGB145RF (Attack Mode)
Duo Win = 75% (11 OS, 4 SKO)
Beat Win = 25% (All KO)

Duo's recoil (or really its lack of it) was the main factor here, although having a small metal wheel aided in its ability to avoid Beat's attacks. Beat's only hope was to get a KO in the first few seconds of battle (which rarely happened) or just hope that it had enough force to nudge it out.

Just so that this doesn't break into yet another "recoil's not good" topic, I strongly recommend you to add the word 'low' there. "Duo's low recoil... avoid Beat's attacks". I know that you know of this, as the bracketed statement which follows shows your understanding of it. But yeah, just to avoid misunderstandings, that change would be healthy for the thread.

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Surprised to see someone else using Beat as their testing tool against BD145CS combos - I thought I was the only one that did this, haha. I'm liking how successful Wing appears to be, though, and considering getting one myself, lately...

Janstarblast: Beat is just really tricky to use right. It's probably harder to perfect launching Beat appropriately than VariAres, even, because if you bank too deep or not deep enough you get bubkis.. I've got some tests up somewhere or another of going 16 and 4 with MF-H Beat GB145RF vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS(calm).

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Some manner of Octopus.

Beat has been the only competitive attack piece that I have owned since GravityPerseus, which is now mostly outdated. As I said earlier I lack a VariAres and Blitz, so the only other option for attackers is Beat. After months of using nothing but it, and trust me it was tedious to begin with, I have learned how to control Beat (mostly). And have grown to love it.
- Hazel, you are not alone

As for Wing; a lot of people have ridden this wheel off I think for its attack capabilities (which are still ok, but nothing compared to the current day attackers). But its defensive properties, as my tests show, rival that of the great Duo (in these two combo's, at least). Duo has slightly less recoil, but less weight also. Wing has slightly more recoil, but more weight also. The two seem to balance each other out.
I think when it comes to VariAres tests however, Duo will come out on top. Wing, circular as it may be, has too many points for VariAres to lock onto and use to KO, weather Duo is perfectly symmetrical.
Oh, and I am yet to test Wing in its other two modes (Mortal Blow Attack and Pound Attack). I have been using Ironclad Attack mode because it is the most balanced mode, and balance is important to a beys performance (eg Basalt vs Duo).

And I will have stamina tests up soon.

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

Surprised to see someone else using Beat as their testing tool against BD145CS combos - I thought I was the only one that did this, haha. I'm liking how successful Wing appears to be, though, and considering getting one myself, lately...

Janstarblast: Beat is just really tricky to use right. It's probably harder to perfect launching Beat appropriately than VariAres, even, because if you bank too deep or not deep enough you get bubkis.. I've got some tests up somewhere or another of going 16 and 4 with MF-H Beat GB145RF vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS(calm).

Wow, I always found Beat a glorified Attack part, but knew of its uses.
But yeah, never expected it to be so great.
And hey, you not alone! I love Beat too! Just till Hasbro releases 4D beys... *dreams of using Beat on CH120* (As you know, this was a joke. )

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

That day shall come...

Anyway, I'm in the midst of a Duo230 vs Wing230 stamina test, you'll just have to wait to find out who wins

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Standard Procedure (Tips swapped after 5 rounds)

MF-L DuoUranus230D vs MF-L WingPegasusIII230D
Wing = 0% (N/a)
Duo = 100% (All OS)

Duo just outspun by a mile, if there is one combo where balance is shown its this, and Duo clearly has superior balance. No matter how hard Wing hit Duo, it took it all in stride. Wing may be equal to Duo in Defence, but in Stamina Duo trumps it. Wing can make up for a higher recoil with higher weight defence wise, but stamina wise it doesn't help.

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

Some more Defence tests for Duo:

Standard Procedure

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L FangLeoneIIS130RF (Counter Mode)
Duo Win = 80% (14 OS, 2 SKO)
Fang Win = 20% (All KO)

Fang barely managed to get the KO's it did. It kinda nudged Duo to the edge and tipped it out. Otherwise it just bounced off Duo and lost spin in a hopeless attempt to win.


EDIT: I have also updated my first post in this thread to include the past few tests.
Also, I have been considering the benchmarking idea and I am totally for it. But lets not get off topic, I just need a combo to benchmark against (I was thinking BD145CS) and an attack combo to use against it. Any idea's?

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

Well I was thinking...can anyone try Lightning L-Drago BD145 RF against this? I know it worked well only against 230 heights and that too it only managed to push Basalt and not smash it ... but ...I'd like to see how it does against Duo. Lightning is outclassed now I know but... it worked well against Earth based defense which had low recoil so why not try against this(I know Duo is heavier but who knows it 'may' get good results)

I'll take that request. LightningLDragoBD145RF vs DuoUranus230CS coming up!

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As requested here is the test; DuoUranus230CS vs LightningLDragoBD145RF. And 'cause I'm a nice guy, I even threw in a comparative test to Basalt230CS as well

Standard Procedure

MF-L DuoUranus230CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Duo Win = 40% (7 OS, 1 SKO)
LDrago Win = 60% (All KO)

...um... I... Guess I should say that Duo was being tossed around like an angry child's toy. Lightning constantly destabilised, then KOed it. Often the battle was over within 5-7 seconds of the battle starting. It did seem to do ok though, when you put it in perspective... But I expected better from this defensive king...

MF-L BasaltUnicorn230CS vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Basalt Win = 35% (All OS)
LDrago Win = 65% (All KO)

Well, this shows that Basalt is no better than Duo at least. But I expected this one, I've seen the results from other users enough. And Basalt did seem to be getting lucky with the walls... A lot.


If anything, this shows that Dan's combo is still competitively viable, even in today's mixed up metagame.


EDIT: Added the tests to my Main Post in this thread. And made the post easier to read (Or that was the aim)

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

No, I think it just shows how competitively unviable 230CS is now, haha. Same for Lightning LDrago.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

@S.D.C- Wow, why Fang?!
It was quite overrated, and it was quite expected to see how easily it would be suppressed.
As for the Lightning L Drago tests, it shows how effective Lightning always had been against 230 combos. As Dan said, it shows how 230 was suppressed.
Any other Duo Defense combo; and Lightning will go for a toss...

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

That is true.

As for Fang; it's about one of the only decent attack wheels I got. I know it was overrated but it still got ok results in general. As for LightningBD145 vs other duo combo's, that'll be my next test.

Oh, and here are some Wing230CS results:

Standard Procedure

MF-L WingPegasusIII230CS vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF
Wing Win = 25% (All OS)
LDrago Win = 75% (All KO)

I kinda expected this, on a tall height Wing's slightly worse balance really shows through. It's shape gave Lightning plenty of smash opportunities.

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

@S D R Wrong Thread....

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[img=0x150]https://media.giphy.com/media/Q2DabV4eRh160/giphy.gif[/img]

@S D R Wrong Thread....

I take it your talking about the Wing test? It was a comparison to the Duo results, Wing seemed to have equal defence with Duo up to now so I wanted to see if it could improve on Duo's result vs LightningLDragoBD145RF...

Anyway; here is a new defence test vs LightningLDragoBD145RF for Duo, and a a stamina test vs Scythe230D.

Standard Procedure for all Tests: (Tips Swapped after 5 Round for Stamina)

MF-L DuoUranusTH170CS (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L LightningLDragoBD145RF (Upper Mode)
Duo Win = 85% (5 SKO, 12 OS)
LDrago Win = 15% (All KO)

This is more what I would have expected. LDrago only KOed when it managed to put Duo off balance and smack it out, otherwise it just tapped Duo around the stadium.

MF-L DuoUranus230D (Stamina Mode) vs MF-L ScytheKronos230D (Stamina Mode)
Duo Win = 85% (16 OS, 1 KO)
Scythe Win = 15% (All OS)

Duo was out spinning Scythe by a fair margin, often 7 seconds+. It even managed to get a fluke KO by knocking Scythe to the outer edge of the stadium and swinging around the tip it out. Scythe, however only out-spun by 1-4 seconds.


You guys need to help out as well, I'm ruining perfectly shiny Metal Wheels with all these tests

P.S @Galaxy4Stars: My name is spelt S.D.C, not S D R. Geez, even simplified form SDamonCronous people are still spelling it wrong.

EDIT: Updated my main post to include those tests

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online

And that, is the real truth.
EPIC FAIL for LLD.
I really loved LLD, though.

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

I think we al did

RIP LightningLDrago. May your legend live on in our memories. Even if you did practically destroy the metagame of the day...

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Team Omega Nova|My Graphics Store|My Story|My YouTube|Blader Legends Online